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zero7one
23 March 2009, 14:56
I have posted a quick review of the Stark Equipment SE-1 AR-15 Grip. I have not yet had a chance to put the grip to a practical test, but from everything that I have seen, it is a solid grip and appears that it will hold up well against abuse.


http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww265/zero7one/2009_03_23_IMG_8612.jpg

Click Here for Review (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=990)

eternal24k
24 March 2009, 13:57
Interested in hearing more about this, how different does the angle feel?

trinydex
24 March 2009, 14:31
it's rubberized right?

zero7one
24 March 2009, 14:39
Interested in hearing more about this, how different does the angle feel?

I did not notice any difference with the angle from any standard AR-type pistol grip. Is that what you are asking?

zero7one
24 March 2009, 14:52
it's rubberized right?

The entire grip is made out of a durable hard plastic with a textured surface for improved grip. From the pictures it does appear to be "rubberized", but it is indeed plastic.

I attempted to contact Stark via the phone to find out more info about what material was used, but was unable to contact anyone on the phone.

Hope that helps.

John Hwang
24 March 2009, 15:40
Personally speaking, the angle of the grip really made it more comfortable. This grip also came in handy with a few lowers that had broken ear tabs for the trigger guard.

Stark
6 April 2009, 11:22
I did not notice any difference with the angle from any standard AR-type pistol grip. Is that what you are asking?
The frontstrap angle on the SE-1 is much steeper than most grips out there. Our angle is 15, while the A2 angle is 30. I'm too young to know first hand how soldiers were taught to hold their rifles in the 50's when the AR was designed, but anecdotally I have heard that they were taught to hold their firing arm parallel to the ground, which would make a 30 frontstrap angle more appropriate. Most training schools now teach shooters to hold the arm parallel with the body and tuck the elbow in against the belly for proper weapon support and to keep the body as compact as possible. The steeper angle of the SE-1 grip reduces stress on the firing hand wrist when the shooter is using this position.

Stark SE-1: 15
Standard A2: 30
Tango Down BattleGrip: 29
Hogue Rubber Grip: 29 (Best fit line through the troughs of the finger bumps)
Ergo Grip Rigid Ambi: 27 (Best fit line through the troughs of the finger bumps)
Command Arms G27: 27 (Best fit line through the troughs of the finger bumps)
Magpul MIAD: 25

Stark
6 April 2009, 11:33
The entire grip is made out of a durable hard plastic with a textured surface for improved grip. From the pictures it does appear to be "rubberized", but it is indeed plastic.

I attempted to contact Stark via the phone to find out more info about what material was used, but was unable to contact anyone on the phone.

Hope that helps.
The SE-1 is made of a plastic that is highly impact resistant at all temperatures that humans would be able to use their rifle. Plus the plastic is resistant to the cleaners, solvents and fuels that a weapon might contact.

zero7one
6 April 2009, 13:29
Stark - Thank you for clarifying those two issues, and welcome to the board. Can we expect to see any new products in the near future?

Stark
7 April 2009, 05:45
Stark - Thank you for clarifying those two issues, and welcome to the board. Can we expect to see any new products in the near future?
We are finalizing a version of the SE-1 for the SIG 556 rifle, a forward vertical grip and an AK-47 grip. Prototypes for all of these products were at SHOT. Our connections with Sig Sauer allowed us to display our grip on one of their 556 pistols during SHOT. The SE-1 makes a very nice grip for AR-15 and 556 pistols, by the way.

trinydex
7 April 2009, 12:07
We are finalizing a version of the SE-1 for the SIG 556 rifle, a forward vertical grip and an AK-47 grip. Prototypes for all of these products were at SHOT. Our connections with Sig Sauer allowed us to display our grip on one of their 556 pistols during SHOT. The SE-1 makes a very nice grip for AR-15 and 556 pistols, by the way.

are there any pictures from the sig booth?

Stark
7 April 2009, 12:24
are there any pictures from the sig booth?

Here is a picture I took with my phone, so I apologize for the poor quality:

http://www.starkequipment.com/HostedFiles/SE-1-SG_SHOT.jpg

zero7one
7 April 2009, 15:53
I take it that is a Stark forward grip on the Sig as well?

Stark
8 April 2009, 06:41
I take it that is a Stark forward grip on the Sig as well?
The original picture did have one of our prototype forward grips, but I edited it out. I don't want anyone getting in trouble for displaying that pistol as an AOW.

Army Chief
8 April 2009, 08:07
Not entirely sure that I follow the logic here: why would it be problematic to display an AOW? If this is somehow an NFA-specific item (??), we could always put it on the dedicated board.

AC

Army Chief
8 April 2009, 08:15
... or are you just suggesting that the weapon in question here may or may not be registered as AOW, so we're erring on the side of caution, just in case it is, in fact, a "pistol?"

AC

Stark
8 April 2009, 08:21
... or are you just suggesting that the weapon in question here may or may not be registered as AOW, so we're erring on the side of caution, just in case it is, in fact, a "pistol?"

AC
Bingo.

zero7one
18 April 2009, 06:47
Here are a couple more pictures that I recently shot.

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww265/zero7one/IMG_8131.jpg

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww265/zero7one/IMG_8135.jpg

OfcPowder
18 April 2009, 13:56
Very nice grip. I've got mine on order

Lex Talionis
22 April 2009, 12:42
I love the 'idea' of this grip.. I want to want to buy it.. BUT I use an ergo grip, or Hogue grips on my pistols, as I have sweaty palms and the very rubbery surface really helps me feel a secure contact (maybe this also stems from 15+ years of racing mountain bikes and using tacky rubber grips). So I fear the product will be to slick for my tastes. Yes, I see the water channels and the dimpled strips, but I would think the dimpled strips should cover much more area than the 3 strips..I would like to see a grippy stippled pattern that more covers from the tang upwards to just under the trigger guard.

zero7one
24 April 2009, 06:52
I love the 'idea' of this grip.. I want to want to buy it.. BUT I use an ergo grip, or Hogue grips on my pistols, as I have sweaty palms and the very rubbery surface really helps me feel a secure contact (maybe this also stems from 15+ years of racing mountain bikes and using tacky rubber grips). So I fear the product will be to slick for my tastes. Yes, I see the water channels and the dimpled strips, but I would think the dimpled strips should cover much more area than the 3 strips..I would like to see a grippy stippled pattern that more covers from the tang upwards to just under the trigger guard.

Lex -

I am going to run some extreme conditions tests on the grip when I get some time. I'll let you know the results. I understand what you mean about liking the rubbery surface, but I do not think that you would be disappointed with this grip at all. One thing to consider about rubbery grips is that over time with aggressive use, the rubber may tend to wear down. I do not see the Stark grip wearing down over time. It is a well built component that I believe will last a long time. I'll keep you updated on the test.

Here is another shot from the other day.

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww265/zero7one/IMG_8522.jpg

Stark
24 April 2009, 07:38
I love the 'idea' of this grip.. I want to want to buy it.. BUT I use an ergo grip, or Hogue grips on my pistols, as I have sweaty palms and the very rubbery surface really helps me feel a secure contact (maybe this also stems from 15+ years of racing mountain bikes and using tacky rubber grips). So I fear the product will be to slick for my tastes. Yes, I see the water channels and the dimpled strips, but I would think the dimpled strips should cover much more area than the 3 strips..I would like to see a grippy stippled pattern that more covers from the tang upwards to just under the trigger guard.
In developing the SE-1 we did consider using elastomeric material, and I am sure that in the future we will come out with a grip that uses elastomer. What we found during our development, however, is that elastomers were not necessary for a stable grip. By shaping the grip so that it fills the hand, the amount of surface contact between the hand and grip is increased. When squeezing our grip, the grasping force is evenly distributed and results in an efficient use of that force.

The overall geometry of the SE-1, not just the surface, has been designed to provide a stable grip. The hand is naturally positioned with the trigger finger in-line with the trigger face, the frontstrap is steeper and the bottom of the grip flares outward. When the user is in a firing position and pulls the gun rearward into his shoulder, the steeper frontstrap makes it less likely that the hand will slip downward, even with a relaxed grasp. Some companies use finger bumps to prevent slipping, but the bumps don't usually fit a large range of hand sizes. The SE-1 also has a bottom tang and flaring that halt movement off the grip if the hand does start to slip.

You also commented on the amount and location of aggressive texture. For the same reason that the comb area of rifle and shotgun stocks are smooth to prevent abrasion to the face, we wanted to keep the surfaces of our grip smooth where the fingers (especially the thumb web) repetitively rub.

I don't mean to present our grip as the be-all and end-all for pistol grips. A lot of work went into making our grip, but personal preference and use environment will dictate appropriate gear.

Stickman
24 April 2009, 10:02
One of the things I was going to comment on is that the texture on the Stark grip is where its needed, and not a simple texture overlay of the entire item. I think the texture falls in as a piece of the larger puzzle, and it integrates nicely.


I think we need to get the Stark pistol grip on our extreme test mule that is in the process of being built. When you factor in the drop testing and other abuse, it will quickly show its overall durability. There are a few other tests aside from shooting that I want to do as well, which will incorporate inclement weather, which should give ample input on grip to hand adhesion.



ETA- Besides, the grip will give me one more thing to spray paint tan.... [:D]

zero7one
24 April 2009, 10:36
ETA- Besides, the grip will give me one more thing to spray paint tan.... [:D]

Or you could get the dark earth model and save some paint. [BD]

Lex Talionis
24 April 2009, 16:04
I appreciate the comments back regarding mine.. certainly, as such a new product is really unknown, I will be curious to some real world feedback.

now, I am no expert but I am not 100% convinced yet that the 'placement' of the stippling texture is enough - I don't know, maybe. I guess I visually feel I need to see it from hilt to tang since my hand fits that entire area.. not just the 2.5 inches of textured area. I understand fully where and why the selection was made. The overall grips size, fatigue benefits, shape, configuration, surface area contact, stable grip, tang, flaring, quality of polymer used are not my concerns really as I 100% buy into it.. but all of those things, in my mind though they play a roll, may not be fully realized if my smaller than average sweaty palm slips. then none of that matters. yes, I realize the 'design' should stop that slippage. do the textures line up with my hand/fingers? Are they sufficiently wide? It is things like this I look at and when I generally see that a grip is of some plastic nature, I shy away. This the the first and only I have actually considered.

I also think about this.. many of us that visit these forums are not the high end users such as Stickman... of course there are some, but most of us are.. just general users. point being, it would likely be a lifetime before I wore down or damaged a rubbery grip like an Ergo. So, though I feel your point, I am looking at the big picture of average users... of which I am one. SO that does not play as much of a concern to me.

Certainly, because of the combo nature of grip/trigger guard this unit must be a firm solid polymer plastic. I cannot see this thing having the strength to have those 2 pieces AND be a rubbery material.. which is why I see the utility of more texture. The mere fact you have texture indicates you see the value of it and agree it is needed. So I would not see how having the entire grip - hilt to tang - textured would change any of those great benefits of shape, size, angle, fit, mentioned above.

Conclusion: from a total outside perspective, a full surface treatment it seems would not hinder any of the great ideas and concepts of this grip YET it gives - even in perception - 1 more additional benefit at no loss to the design.. which is surface texture grip. no harm no foul. Heck, look at Hogue.. has made a full business out of making rubbery textured grips to cover stock grips... ask why? Because 'I think" people/the masses like that gripability (my word) of the rubbery material.

I will say, if I did not think this product was so cool.. I would not even spend this much time looking at it, thinking about it, writing about it.. but it is rare that I see something pretty innovative that grabs my attention. who knows, I may end of with one of these damn things bolted onto my AR :)

Lex Talionis
24 April 2009, 16:26
also curious.. why is a bolt needed to attach at the trigger guard? why can a flush pin - a bit cleaner install - have been used? My RRA winter trigger guard, nice and roomy, has a very cool recessed mount spring based pin system so no bolt heads and wonder why some are that way and some need bolts? just design preference?

Stark
25 April 2009, 05:28
also curious.. why is a bolt needed to attach at the trigger guard? why can a flush pin - a bit cleaner install - have been used? My RRA winter trigger guard, nice and roomy, has a very cool recessed mount spring based pin system so no bolt heads and wonder why some are that way and some need bolts? just design preference?
Because the trigger guard is integral to the grip and so beefy, the far end of the guard doesn't even need to be anchored. We didn't think people would like the idea of an unsecured trigger guard, though. A spring pin assembly was considered, but chose the screw because of its simplicity and to give a super secure appearance.

Lex Talionis
16 May 2009, 13:31
I may end of with one of these damn things bolted onto my AR :)

sure enough.. just ordered one. I just have to try it on this next build. [:D]

I ordered the CR123 cap because on a hunch I figured a CR123 is wider, so I could fit AA batteries in it by making a little adaptor or just by wrapping tape around the bottom of the AA to take up space. BUT a CR123 is not going to fit in the AA holes... so it seemed I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone :)

Audiophiliac
17 May 2009, 00:40
I would try a Stark grip if they made one without the integrated trigger guard. :) I guess I could modify one to work with my TI lower. bwahaha

Lex Talionis
17 May 2009, 16:09
funny thing is, though I think their integrated trigger guard is a little tight on space when I compare it with something like my RRA winter trigger guard you could drive a truck through, in the end it is actually more affordable. A good grip is what..30-40$ and a RRA or similar larger trigger guard is what, 25$ or so. so in the end, it is a little bit more affordable to get all in 1 :)