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View Full Version : "The Dilemma" THE Rail for the LR-308



RobertTheTexan
10 April 2017, 12:54
WEVO-ers,
Good Afternoon, evening, or morning. This is my first post here in the world of WEVO. I've been a reader of some pretty nice threads. Excellent pics and in general, just a very, very informative forum, that honestly, is just a pleasure to spend time reading. If there is a lot of bickering or my barrel is bigger than your barrel, I haven't seen it. I'm hoping it's because that stuff is reserved for TOS. Anyway, I would rather my first post written in an effort to help or answer a question, but it is what it is, I appreciate your understanding.

So I've got a LR-308 that is 99.9999% complete. The only, ONLY missing part is (of course you already know...) the RAIL. I've never had a more enigmatic AR part before than this rail is. I've built quite a few AR-15's. Generally, my rail o' choice is a LaRue Tactical, I have them from 9" to 13.2". Yep, I'm a quad rail man. I like the heft and weight, and the general feeling that I could drive over it in a tanks and it still shoot. Or zonk someone on the head with that thing and bring lights out quicker than a solar flare. Not that I go around zonking people on the head. Not at all. So that's been my goto rail for the most part since I left M4's behind and started building my own. I did install a Centurion C4, just to check it out. And recently, I had a really good friend give me a KAC URX 4 10.75" MLOK rail that I used on a DD 11.5 SBR build. It's a beaut of a rail. I have an Arisaka offset @ the 45 with a little SF 300 and nice tapeswitch, and a Naroh handstop. That's it. Nice and clean. Efficient. I do have some Magpul Type 2 rail covers on it. That's it.

Here's my dilemma and my reason for reaching out to total strangers for their opinion. I just cannot make up my flipping mind on this rail. I do know one thing: It will be an SLR Rifleworks rail. I recently sent back a 16" SOLO because it was just too long, and I didn't have the 45 degree mounting surface that I could potentially use. So Chase @ SLR (Who is awesome.) let me pull it off my weapon and ship the rail back and now I'm ready to pull the trigger. I did shorten it a little. 15". Does one inch make a difference? yeah, I think so. But the main point is that I switched gears. I decided I did not want to do a hybrid rail - meaning it will either be a full MLOK (except for the top rail, that has to be picatinny) or it will be a quad rail. I know the SLR is not my LT, but I read the post that Munitions made on here about the quad rail, that was in 2015, so apparently there was enough interest to push it from prototype to production. Cool right!? This AR is designated as my DMR (If you are wondering purpose/role). I've already got my optic for it. It will likely not run a light, I don't see a big need for a light on a DMR. (but it could some day) I have an Atlas bipod with an ADM mount, but could as easily pick up a MLOK bipod mount.

So what are you thoughts good strangers? Is there a compelling reason to go with one or the other? My visual self says, "Dang that MLOK will look really nice!" The practical tactical side of me says, stay the course. Get the quad rail. It's what you know, you can put your LaRue index clips on it, your AFG or whatever, and be happy as a possum in mollasses. I've never built an AR with aestetics in mind. They look like very solid tools. They are functional and ready for whatever I need them to do. To me, there is a beauty in that. So I think that's one reason this is a tough decision. Sorry that my first post is so long and asking for help rather than giving, but I thank you for any input you may have.

- RTT

Here are the candidates of the evening...

15" Quad Rail
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B3_szFRHlzPWSkZHQkNTRm1TU0E

15" ION Lite MLOK
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=0B3_szFRHlzPWMGQ5QjQ2MmV4dUU

You know I don't even know if others makes these types of posts. Hopefully it's cool. I figured since it's my first post, I may have a little grace if it's not a "WEVO" thing to do. :) Besides this is my first poll ever! Woohoo11

ksenter
10 April 2017, 13:01
I'm in for the mlok for the comfort alone. I also was a quad rail guy. Too big and bulky these days. Put rails where you need them.

Btw, I'm invested in the keymod and would cost me to much to switch to mlok. Mlok is where it's at these days

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GOST
10 April 2017, 13:32
I like the quad.

Uffdaphil
10 April 2017, 14:14
I have multiples of both and like them. With the already heavier .308 I would pick the M-Lok just to lighten the load.

My all-time favorite rails are neither, but feel great in hand and are gorgeous - the Centurion CMR and Geissele SMR Mk4.

RobertTheTexan
10 April 2017, 14:27
I have multiples of both and like them. With the already heavier .308 I would pick the M-Lok just to lighten the load.

My all-time favorite rails are neither, but feel great in hand and are gorgeous - the Centurion CMR and Geissele SMR Mk4.

One of the first rails I looked at was the CMR. Only problem is I could never find it in stock. I did also consider Geissele rails, I never contacted them to ask, but it seems their rails are for M4 uppers and not an Armalite AR-10 or DPMS patterned upper receiver. I've never owned one, but the quality control they have plus just how it looks is enough to put it on my list.

But back on point. The weight is one of the biggest factors in the MLok's corner. My SPR has a LaRue Tactical 13.2" rail and granted its not all rail, (the scope was a tank) but it weighed 14 lbs. I'd like to come in under that if I could. Lol


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fledge
10 April 2017, 15:48
CMR 308: https://www.rainierarms.com/centurion-cmr-7-62-308-rail-system-12

SINNER
10 April 2017, 17:05
https://www.cmttac.com/AR10-RAIL

UWone77
10 April 2017, 19:03
I've got several CMR's on my AR10's. I love them.

The CMT Handguard is also awesome.

Default.mp3
10 April 2017, 19:40
Pedant alert:

Public Service Announcement:

Handguard:
http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/large/akbor12_2.jpg

Handguard:
http://files.harrispublications.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2014/10/imbel-fal-military-surplus-2015-handguard-600x384.1421390464.jpg

Handguard:
https://www.magpul.com/Admin/Public/GetImage.ashx?Image=/Files/Files/Images/Products/Hand%20Guard/MAG551/MAG551-BLK-15.png&Width=1200&Height=700&altFmImage_path=/Files/Files/Images/Products/noImage.png&Crop=5

Handguard:
http://www.del-ton.com/v/vspfiles/photos/HG1012-2.jpg

Rail:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Picatinny.svg

Rail:
http://store.a51tactical.com/images/MB1231.jpg

Quad-Rail Handguard:
https://www.slickguns.com/sites/default/files/318965.jpg

MLOK Handguard:
https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.c om/product/xalg.jpg

Railed MLOK Handguard:
https://www.magpul.com/Admin/Public/GetImage.ashx?Image=/Files/Files/Images/Products/Rails/MAG602/Single/MAG602-1-15.png&altFmImage_path=/Files/Files/Images/Products/noImage.png&Width=950&Height=450&Crop=5

Point: the thing you hold is a handguard.
The raised mount is the rail.
If you stick rails on a handguard, it's a railed handguard.
An "MLOK Rail" is a piece of rail that you stick to an MLOK handguard, not a handguard with MLOK cut into it.
Long ago, in the way back, we all got lazy and called "Quad Rail Handguards", "Rail Interface Systems", and "Rail Adaptor Systems"; "Rails". We did not have an eye on the future, we were just lazy. Now is the time to fix that.

I personally don't see how a quad rail handguard is more practical; to me, the choice is obviously the full M-LOK. Beyond that, Mega is coming out with a .308 WedgeLock, while V7 will also have .308 Enlightened Handguards coming out, too.

alamo5000
10 April 2017, 21:06
As for my 2 cents... SLR and CMT are both at the top of my list for handguards.

I started from nothing in the AR world but now I am sort of partial to M-Lok. It's not a perfect system but it works.

You mentioned that you will buy an SLR rail. I have a couple and they are fantastic. Not sure about .308 but on slim rails you might want an SLR gas block too if you go M-lok.

The modularity of M-lok is really nice. In hind sight I got lucky falling into that early on. Aside from that for a DMR set up the quad wouldnt bring much to the party I wouldn't think.

Pyzik
11 April 2017, 07:12
I have multiples of both and like them. With the already heavier .308 I would pick the M-Lok just to lighten the load.

My all-time favorite rails are neither, but feel great in hand and are gorgeous - the Centurion CMR and Geissele SMR Mk4.

I was initially going to say the opposite of you, the 308 is already hefty so why not just grab the quad. I think a .308 with a quad looks sexy.
You are 100% on the second point though, while I don't own one, the CMR has been my favorite rail (on looks) for a long time.

Like Uwone, I've got a few CMT rails and they are very nice. I know they're not in the running, just echoing.

Blah, blah, blah, having said all that; MLOK is handier, lighter, smoother, more comfortable and more practical.

SINNER
11 April 2017, 07:48
Quality quad rails for .308's are not very plentiful. And MLok blows. Hate it more and more. Damages the rail every time it's installed and removed. The nuts spin before they loosen fully and damage both Cerakote and anodizing.

Pyzik
11 April 2017, 07:55
Quality quad rails for .308's are not very plentiful. And MLok blows. Hate it more and more. Damages the rail every time it's installed and removed. The nuts spin before they loosen fully and damage both Cerakote and anodizing.

So it's not just me? I've always appreciated Keymod's attachment ease over MLOK.

SINNER
11 April 2017, 08:04
So it's not just me? I've always appreciated Keymod's attachment ease over MLOK.

Not just you. Honestly not sure how anyone who used both could like MLok better. I've had issues with the bolts being both too short and too long to function properly, tolerance issues with the thickness of the slots in the fore ends causing fitment issues, and as stated damage to the interior rail surfaces causing gouges deep enough bare metal is visible. Poor design IMO.

Big_Tom
18 April 2017, 11:27
I would go with the Centurion Arms CMR if you can find it. Here's mine 14" CMR on a 16" barrel.

http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/Big_13er/Mobile%20Uploads/CD9F6BF4-05F5-421F-BDE8-9347519BE57A_zps7bs1a89g.jpg

RobertTheTexan
18 April 2017, 13:51
Well dang it. I hate getting a lot of good advice and basically just doing whatever. I will say that my MLok experimence wasn't that deep. I have LaRue Tactical quad rails HANDGUARDS on all my AR'a Cept the Centurion C4.
But I really wanted to cut weight down and I did. My DMR comes in just under 13.5 lbs whereas my SPR with the same optic weighed 14.4.
I did decide to go with the SLR MLOK. Mainly because I have not had bad experiences with MLok. In fact I don't see what the big todo is, my Troy VTAC rails were mlokish before MLok was cool. I never had any issues attaching mounts on whatever. In fact I may see if I can use a VTAC picatinny attachment. That would alleviate the whole spinning nut issue Sinner experiences. I do have a keymo on a lightweight build but went keymod this time around. Becaus everybody knows keymod is gonna die...
I AM JUST KIDDING!!!!!! :jester:
There were some great suggestions, I had sent back the first SLR rail I got and had the 2nd one was already shipped.
Here it is though for what it's worth. Perfect functioning right out of the gate. Perfect cycling, function, extraction. I could not be happier. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/9447c6c2bb53bd1c1fb042a43880dce9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/41cda10380388388406a2e41e50c6f02.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/2768fb70bdb968a119d3f886ca7f477f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/e3a2d0e63f78520427a2e02ab1273903.jpg


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Tyrannosaur
18 April 2017, 17:10
I so wanted the CMR in 14" always out of stock on theur site and i can't find it to save my life. Missed the battle ax bless and I'm kicking myself for it

UWone77
18 April 2017, 17:13
I so wanted the CMR in 14" always out of stock on theur site and i can't find it to save my life. Missed the battle ax bless and I'm kicking myself for it

In 762?

Tyrannosaur
18 April 2017, 20:46
In 762?

Ya the 762 version. Man reading my post over I need to check my auto correct.

RobertTheTexan
18 April 2017, 21:13
Ya the 762 version. Man reading my post over I need to check my auto correct.


Missed the battle ax bless and I'm kicking myself for it

I would agree wholeheartedly, especially since I do the same thing. lol

What exactly did you mean? I was thinking man, I had a Troy Battle Axe and gave that thing away.


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Tyrannosaur
18 April 2017, 21:22
On centurions site they only list the 308 CMR in battle ax. I missed it around Christmas time. Called when I had the money and they said they would be restocked in a few weeks. That was 3 months ago, can't find a 14" anywhere

RobertTheTexan
18 April 2017, 21:41
Gotcha. I've hit their site up off and on and about a year and 1/2. I did that "notify me when back on stock" but no joy.
I do wonder if their GB is the only one that can be used because I will use an adjustable gas block and the Centurion is a standard non-adj. do you know if the SLR Sentry 7 will fit under the CMR hand guard? I ask because of that statement that they make saying you should only use their gas block due to minimal height on their hand guards


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Big_Tom
19 April 2017, 02:44
Gotcha. I've hit their site up off and on and about a year and 1/2. I did that "notify me when back on stock" but no joy.
I do wonder if their GB is the only one that can be used because I will use an adjustable gas block and the Centurion is a standard non-adj. do you know if the SLR Sentry 7 will fit under the CMR hand guard? I ask because of that statement that they make saying you should only use their gas block due to minimal height on their hand guards


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The Sentry 7 set screw block will fit. Also Odin works adjustable gb will too. That's is the one I have on my upper.

I was also goin to suggest SMOS 308 Handguard

https://www.smosarms.com/collections/rails/products/308-dpms-rail?variant=37757251847

Tyrannosaur
19 April 2017, 06:55
The sentry 7 will fit? The inner diameter of the cmr is stated to be 1.25" and the sentry 7 is 1.40" tall.

Slippers
19 April 2017, 07:04
The sentry 7 will fit? The inner diameter of the cmr is stated to be 1.25" and the sentry 7 is 1.40" tall.

The ID measurement doesn't include the channel for the gas tube at the top.

Tyrannosaur
19 April 2017, 07:20
Son of a.... I had a regular GB pinned thinking it wouldn't fit . Plus they said at centurion it wouldn't. Oh well. Thank you Slippers. I have a BA barrel and they told me they don't recommend an adjustable GB anyhow. Maybe I'll just build another upper haha. Just waiting for the CMR to be restocked at this point.

Tyrannosaur
19 April 2017, 11:56
For those interested. I just exchanged emails with Centurion arms, there was an issue with the battle Ax logo. The logo may not be the same but is acceptable. So everyone knows there as of right now are 24 available battle ax blem 14" CMR rails available. There were 25... one is mine. They're $210 plus shipping which is a steel

RobertTheTexan
19 April 2017, 13:00
For those interested. I just exchanged emails with Centurion arms, there was an issue with the battle Ax logo. The logo may not be the same but is acceptable. So everyone knows there as of right now are 24 available battle ax blem 14" CMR rails available. There were 25... one is mine. They're $210 plus shipping which is a steel

308, high profile DPMS?


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Tyrannosaur
19 April 2017, 13:11
308, high profile DPMS?


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That's the one...

Tyrannosaur
19 April 2017, 13:13
https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/701114.htm this is the one.

RobertTheTexan
19 April 2017, 13:30
https://www.centurionarms.com/product-p/701114.htm this is the one.

Aye aye ayyyyyyee....I wanted to wait an get least 500 rounds down the pipe before I started another .308 build. You're killin me man, killin me! lol


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BoilerUp
19 April 2017, 18:32
The ID measurement doesn't include the channel for the gas tube at the top.

Yeah, that. The Sentry 7 set-screw should pretty much fit any handguard. The clamp on sticks out a bit more and doesn't work well for long BCM KMRs which can deflect.

Tyrannosaur
19 April 2017, 19:43
Aye aye ayyyyyyee....I wanted to wait an get least 500 rounds down the pipe before I started another .308 build. You're killin me man, killin me! lol


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I started a build just based on the centurion, fitting it's the last part I need. I have a fortis switch in mlok that may go up for sale. Got it thinking the cmr was unavailable