Feed problems

[Frank 67]

Hi all, new here, so bare with me if this has been covered already. I just finished my first build about a month or so ago. I put about 120 rounds through it today, which probably doubles the number of rounds put through it. Today, the first few mags (10 round Pmags) went through without a hitch. I then started getting feed jams and FTF with increasing frequency. Could it be the ammo (UMC 55 gr. 223 FMJ)? Also, lock back was inconsistent. The rifle had been working flawlessly before today. I hope it's not the ammo. I already have a shotgun that's ammo sensitive. Should I just go with 5.56 ammo and leave the 223 in the dust?

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Hey Frank as UW said, Welcome! 2 things come to mind with your issues. First being add some lube to it. Most new builds require a lot more lube during the break in period. Secondly UMC is well known for being weak ammo. So lube it up and get some different ammo.

[Frank 67]

Thanks, that's what I suspected. I just bought 500 rounds of that crap.

[UWone77]

UMC isn't bad ammo, it's good for plinking.

Like the medic said, lube it well. New builds are notoriously dry. Did you happen to notice if it was happening with the same magazine?

[Frank 67]

No, both magazines. I have cleaned it, just to see how. I guess I just have to slop the thing up. They're both 10 round Pmags.

[FortTom]

Thanks, that's what I suspected. I just bought 500 rounds of that crap.
Before you throw your "crap" away take their advice and lube and break in your weapon. I got a great deal on cases of 200 round boxes of UMC, and have fired shit loads of it in all of my AR's. No problems. I use it primarily for plinking, but it's consistency across multiple rifles and magazines gives me enough confidence to keep SD magazines loaded with it.

Also, as UWone77 stated, check your magazines.

You said you completed your first "build". Is this your first AR also, or just your first build? If, after following DM and UW's advice, and trying another box of another brand of ammo, and it still doesn't work, come back, it could be several things, but no need to complicate things at this point. If your dead set to throw that ammo out, I'll send you shipping and you can UPS it to me.;)

FT[:D]

[Frank 67]

No, I'm not going to throw it out. Yeah, my first AR 15 as well as my first build. The first 100 rounds went through with no trouble. I'll clean and oil up the bolt and see what happens. There was another guy at the range with an AR and I noticed his chamber looked pretty wet. I'll keep you posted. Thanks everybody for your input.

[55grain]

I know I am going to get into trouble here by those who worship Magpul, but just try another magazine before you throw anything away. My Pmag would never work yet USGI mags worked flawlessly.

[Frank 67]

I originally put about 120 rounds of American Eagle 5.56 55gr FMJs through it and it ran fine. It wasn't until I got to the UMC ammo that I started to have problems.

[cjd3]

Welcome Frank. Did you run the AE FMJs after the UMC with success?

[Frank 67]

No, I ran through all the AE ammo before starting on the UMC ammo.

[FortTom]

I know I am going to get into trouble here by those who worship Magpul... Glad the USGI mags worked out.

But when you ask a question and retort with some passive aggressive bullshit like "those who worship Magpul".. you might think before you put on your pink hat and search out a "safe space".

There is literally 1000's of hours of expertise on this forum. Most are ready to drop what they're doing and help you out with suggestions and advice. Usually a couple of posts will solve your issue.

Some here worship their own personal God, some their families, some both, and some choose to worship nothing at all, but I can almost guarantee no one here "worships" Magpul. When they try to help, and you snidely shit on them with statements like that, It's a not so subtle message that you have no respect for their experience or help. Side note: Even if they won't feed in your gun, the U.S.M.C. put them through hell and back, and adopted them for their Marines.

Take off your pink hat and join in the forum. ;)

FT[:D]

[Eric]

Hi all, new here, so bare with me if this has been covered already. I just finished my first build about a month or so ago. I put about 120 rounds through it today, which probably doubles the number of rounds put through it. Today, the first few mags (10 round Pmags) went through without a hitch. I then started getting feed jams and FTF with increasing frequency. Could it be the ammo (UMC 55 gr. 223 FMJ)? Also, lock back was inconsistent. The rifle had been working flawlessly before today. I hope it's not the ammo. I already have a shotgun that's ammo sensitive. Should I just go with 5.56 ammo and leave the 223 in the dust?
More details on what's occurring with the fired round will assist in diagnosis. Start with a clean and well lubricated rifle. Load 1 round in a mag and fire. Repeat this a few times. We want to see if the round is extracted from the chamber, ejected clear of the rifle and the action locks open on the empty mag. If the rifle fails to reliably lock open (mag follower pushes up on the bolt catch, which moves in front of the bolt and prevents it from going forward), there's a high likelihood that there's a gas problem and the rifle is short stroking. With your feeding issues from a full mag, where is the round stopping? Is there more than one round or fired brass remaining in the action? When you say "FTF" do you mean fail to fire, fail to feed or something else? A description of the configuration of the rifle would be helpful as well.

When looking at malfunctions in the AR, the acronym MEAL is something to remember (credit to Dean Caputo if I recall correctly).
Magazines
Extraction/Ejection
Ammunition
Lube

Mags can certainly be one of the first things to look at, especially if your screwed by only having 10 round mags available. They are non-standard (no such thing as a 10 round USGI mag) and built to strictly only hold 10 round (unlike many 30 round mags that can fit 31 if you try) which can cause excessive tension on the top round.

[UWone77]

Glad the USGI mags worked out.

But when you ask a question and retort with some passive aggressive bullshit like "those who worship Magpul".. you might think before you put on your pink hat and search out a "safe space".

There is literally 1000's of hours of expertise on this forum. Most are ready to drop what they're doing and help you out with suggestions and advice. Usually a couple of posts will solve your issue.

Some here worship their own personal God, some their families, some both, and some choose to worship nothing at all, but I can almost guarantee no one here "worships" Magpul. When they try to help, and you snidely shit on them with statements like that, It's a not so subtle message that you have no respect for their experience or help. Side note: Even if they won't feed in your gun, the U.S.M.C. put them through hell and back, and adopted them for their Marines.

Take off your pink hat and join in the forum. ;)

FT[:D]

I don't think he meant anything by it.[:D]

PMAGs generally work well but not the end all be all.

[UWone77]

I know I am going to get into trouble here by those who worship Magpul, but just try another magazine before you throw anything away. My Pmag would never work yet USGI mags worked flawlessly.

I don't think anyone here worships Magpul. Wrong forum [:D]

[Frank 67]

FTF= Failure to feed. Extraction was never a problem. Bolt lock-back was inconsistent. The rifle is a 16" barrel with a carbine-length gas system. I'm beginning to suspect that lube/ammo may be the cause. The light loads along with inadequate lube may be the culprit. This is my first AR and my first build (lower only). It will be a while before I can get to the range again, probably not until Friday.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

FTF= Failure to feed. Extraction was never a problem. Bolt lock-back was inconsistent. The rifle is a 16" barrel with a carbine-length gas system. I'm beginning to suspect that lube/ammo may be the cause. The light loads along with inadequate lube may be the culprit. This is my first AR and my first build (lower only). It will be a while before I can get to the range again, probably not until Friday.

No worries. Try lube first and then ammo. Use the same mags you used before as well. If neither lube nor ammo help then try a different mag. Keep us posted when you can. Happy shooting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[55grain]

Glad the USGI mags worked out.

But when you ask a question and retort with some passive aggressive bullshit like "those who worship Magpul".. you might think before you put on your pink hat and search out a "safe space".

There is literally 1000's of hours of expertise on this forum. Most are ready to drop what they're doing and help you out with suggestions and advice. Usually a couple of posts will solve your issue.

Some here worship their own personal God, some their families, some both, and some choose to worship nothing at all, but I can almost guarantee no one here "worships" Magpul. When they try to help, and you snidely shit on them with statements like that, It's a not so subtle message that you have no respect for their experience or help. Side note: Even if they won't feed in your gun, the U.S.M.C. put them through hell and back, and adopted them for their Marines.

Take off your pink hat and join in the forum. ;)

FT[:D]

Oh, we do have someone worshiping Magpul. Hey, if you think for one moment you are going to edit or censor my words or thoughts--i've got two words for you and the second word is "you".. His problem was a Pmag wasn't working for him, read it again if you read at all. The obvious fix isn't more prayers to Magpul, it is try one new thing and see if there is a change. Pull off your burka and try logic.

[SINNER]

Is AR15.com down? Seems like some forum lost their asshole.

[UWone77]

Is AR15.com down? Seems like some forum lost their asshole.

[:D]

Can't we just all get along?

On a more serious note, let's put the chest puffing away. No need to get too serious about a most likely off hand comment.

[Frank 67]

Thanks. I'll try lube first. I've never liked to over-oil, but apparently ARs need more oil. I'm pretty much broke for the rest of the month. I needed ammo for all my guns and it's left me short of funds. I'll pull the bolt and give it a decent squirt of CLR. I've been watching some You Tube videos and the consensus seems to be that if it's dripping oil, it's just about right.

[FortTom]

Thanks. I'll try lube first. I've never liked to over-oil, but apparently ARs need more oil. I'm pretty much broke for the rest of the month. I needed ammo for all my guns and it's left me short of funds. I'll pull the bolt and give it a decent squirt of CLR. I've been watching some You Tube videos and the consensus seems to be that if it's dripping oil, it's just about right.

Frank, don't go overboard with oiling. Especially if you're using NiB BCG's (it'll just sling off). How much you lube depends on what you're lubing with. I don't think it's going to be one size fits all.

I just changed to EWL 2000 for my lube regime, and following instructions, I put a thin coat on everything. One was an AR, the Other a LR-10. When I got home I was amazed that the BCG's were still "wet", but still just about right. I think "oiling until it's dripping" just makes a friggin mess.

Also, dust will cake on to the firearm, in your lower and upper, especially fine, powdering dust, and cause you just as much heart ache as not lubing enough. Just a thought.

FT[:D]

[FortTom]

[:D]

Can't we just all get along?

On a more serious note, let's put the chest puffing away. No need to get too serious about a most likely off hand comment.

O.K., then Buzz Kill.....:mad:

[SINNER]

Funny I come away with the exact opposite issue then most here. Running well at first then stopping would lead me to believe your rifle is overgassed and experiencing a bolt over speed and bounce issue. Unfortunately preassembled uppers in a carbine pattern from little known manufacturers usually use lower end barrels with huge gas ports. As the rifle is loosening up and breaking in its showing the overgassed issue.

[SINNER]

O.K., then Buzz Kill.....:mad:

Yup. Debbie Downer ruining the Sat night fun.

[FortTom]

Funny I come away with the exact opposite issue then most here. Running well at first then stopping would lead me to believe your rifle is overgassed and experiencing a bolt over speed and bounce issue. Unfortunately preassembled uppers in a carbine pattern from little known manufacturers usually use lower end barrels with huge gas ports. As the rifle is loosening up and breaking in its showing the overgassed issue.

Just this last Monday a friend and myself went to the range, and a friend of his met us here to go shoot. He was having this issue almost immediately. After screwing around for about an hour, we took the hand guard off and found that whoever built that upper did a piss poor job with the gas block. They used set screws, but not correctly. They used the type with the point on the end and the gas block turned. We're going to mill flats into the bottom of the barrel, just slightly larger than the set screw about .125 deep and Loc tite the hell out of them. Don't know if the gas block could be the culprit, but if everything else fails, it doesn't take much effort to pull the handguar and check it out.

FT[:D]

[Frank 67]

I suspect that I started with the AE 5.56 ammo first. I had thrown some in, on the top of the box before I left for the range. The problems didn't start until I started using the UMC stuff. I read that 5.56 has a bit more pressure than .223, so I'm guessing that I'm getting a short cycle. Just enough to cause the feed issue and lock-back inconsistencies as well. My "dripping" reference was an exaggeration, but I'm thinking I'm running too dry. I've been using Hoppes oil, but I may switch over to CLP to penetrate better. BTW, I didn't mean to start a fight here, so everybody please, go to your corners, calm down, and come out hugging. :)

[55grain]

Is AR15.com down? Seems like some forum lost their asshole.

Stand up Sinner. Reach down there between your legs. Do you feel anything hanging down? If so, next time, have the balls to address me directly with your throw-away post.

[UWone77]

Stand up Sinner. Reach down there between your legs. Do you feel anything hanging down? If so, next time, have the balls to address me directly with your throw-away post.

Actually, we're going to throw away your post.

Quit being a Dick. In fact, take some time off and decide if you want to come back in 72 hours.

[Eric]

Funny I come away with the exact opposite issue then most here. Running well at first then stopping would lead me to believe your rifle is overgassed and experiencing a bolt over speed and bounce issue. Unfortunately preassembled uppers in a carbine pattern from little known manufacturers usually use lower end barrels with huge gas ports. As the rifle is loosening up and breaking in its showing the overgassed issue.
Always a possibility as well. Similar condition that some guys see when they run suppressed and increase the back-pressure. Some malfunctions are a PITA to diagnose without having the rifle in front of you.

[Eric]

I suspect that I started with the AE 5.56 ammo first. I had thrown some in, on the top of the box before I left for the range. The problems didn't start until I started using the UMC stuff. I read that 5.56 has a bit more pressure than .223, so I'm guessing that I'm getting a short cycle. Just enough to cause the feed issue and lock-back inconsistencies as well. My "dripping" reference was an exaggeration, but I'm thinking I'm running too dry. I've been using Hoppes oil, but I may switch over to CLP to penetrate better. BTW, I didn't mean to start a fight here, so everybody please, go to your corners, calm down, and come out hugging. :)
Heavy lube is important for a somewhat high round count, like in a class, but a moderate amount will suffice for most. Just don't run it dry. While any gun oil will work, some are better than others. Slip 2000 is one that has a good track record. I still have a few sample size bottles floating around. PM me if you want to try some out. I can drop one in the mail tomorrow.

[Frank 67]

Thanks. I lubed it today with CLR so I'll see if that works. I won't be shooting until Friday, so I'll let you know then.

[FortTom]

Actually, we're going to throw away your post.

Quit being a Dick. In fact, take some time off and decide if you want to come back in 72 hours.
Damn, UW, 11 posts. That must be some kind of record. I don't think I've ever seen anyone banned here...[:D]

[UWone77]

Damn, UW, 11 posts. That must be some kind of record. I don't think I've ever seen anyone banned here...[:D]

In almost 5 years, I think I've banned like 4 people total. They were all un-banned as they were temporary in nature.

[Frank 67]

I just got back from the range and I'm pleased to report that the rifle ran much smoother today. 150 rounds put through it. I still had a couple of feed problems, but I'm convinced that when the gun gets some more use, things will settle. I'm sure the buffer spring is real stiff right now, but will loosen up some and general wear will make it more forgiving. Groups were acceptable, but it's only a 40 ft. range. Thank you all for your input.

[FortTom]

I just got back from the range and I'm pleased to report that the rifle ran much smoother today. 150 rounds put through it. I still had a couple of feed problems, but I'm convinced that when the gun gets some more use, things will settle. I'm sure the buffer spring is real stiff right now, but will loosen up some and general wear will make it more forgiving. Groups were acceptable, but it's only a 40 ft. range. Thank you all for your input.

What did you do different today, besides a better lube process? Ammo? Mags? Glad things worked out for you.

FT[:D]

[Frank 67]

Just lube. Same ammo and mags.