Piston operated AR's

[FortTom]

I'm not sure, maybe it's just a "regional" thing, but I'm not seeing anyone around here building piston driven AR's, or converting their DI rifles to piston driven. It seemed (again, where I live) that a couple of years ago, if you weren't ripping the gas tubes off of your weapon with a crowbar and installing a piston kit, your loyalty to America and manhood would come under scrutiny.

People I see around various ranges and clubs, who were almost as rabid to the point of being a Piston religious zealot, are now, pretty much silent to the point of even being born again DI folks. And many are just "meh" about the subject.

I personally was a fence sitter on the whole subject, but in the end always stuck with DI because, well it worked, and I just didn't see the need to change. Other than that, I never really took a stand as to the pro/con arguments.

Just wondering if other folks are seeing this trend back to DI or is it just some weird phenomena around here?

Just curious,

FT[:D]

[alamo5000]

Here is my experience on the subject. A few years ago I didn't know that much so thank goodness that Stickman talked me out of going the piston route. He wasn't anti piston he just told me the pros and cons of it and I made my choice. If you're reading this Stick, thanks for the direction (again).

With that in mind I would see people... I remember one guy in particular who was walking around a gun show with a really nice brand new factory DI rifle that had a 'for sale' sign on it. I asked him why he was selling and he said 'I have a suppressor on the way so I need a piston gun...I love my rifle but I have to get a piston gun now instead'. I was looking at him like he was somewhat insane and fortunately for him we talked about it some and I passed along some things I had learned.

I think in large part the piston thing was the 'new shiny' and a whole lot of misinformation was put out there. Admittedly I had heard a lot of stuff myself which added to my confusion about a lot of stuff in the start.

Piston guns are fine and all but I think over time their marketing campaigns (and profit margins) didn't stand up to scrutiny or the test of time. I think because it was a 'hot item' a lot of companies were finding ways to push it.

My main reason for NOT going the piston route was because I learned that many if not most piston systems have proprietary parts in there somewhere. So if XYZ Gun Company Inc sells me a gun and 5 years later they go out of business then I can't get parts anymore. The odd chance of that happening is slim but in the end it's still true. I valued interchangeability way more than something that was even 'marginally better' if that... and even that is in question.

At the end of the day in my view piston guns are not that much more reliable (if at all) than a DI gun, even shooting suppressed all day long.

[GOST]

I've always wanted a PWS but I'm to cheap.

[FortTom]

Here is my experience on the subject. A few years ago I didn't know that much so thank goodness that Stickman talked me out of going the piston route. He wasn't anti piston he just told me the pros and cons of it and I made my choice. If you're reading this Stick, thanks for the direction (again).

With that in mind I would see people... I remember one guy in particular who was walking around a gun show with a really nice brand new factory DI rifle that had a 'for sale' sign on it. I asked him why he was selling and he said 'I have a suppressor on the way so I need a piston gun...I love my rifle but I have to get a piston gun now instead'. I was looking at him like he was somewhat insane and fortunately for him we talked about it some and I passed along some things I had learned.

I think in large part the piston thing was the 'new shiny' and a whole lot of misinformation was put out there. Admittedly I had heard a lot of stuff myself which added to my confusion about a lot of stuff in the start.

Piston guns are fine and all but I think over time their marketing campaigns (and profit margins) didn't stand up to scrutiny or the test of time. I think because it was a 'hot item' a lot of companies were finding ways to push it.

My main reason for NOT going the piston route was because I learned that many if not most piston systems have proprietary parts in there somewhere. So if XYZ Gun Company Inc sells me a gun and 5 years later they go out of business then I can't get parts anymore. The odd chance of that happening is slim but in the end it's still true. I valued interchangeability way more than something that was even 'marginally better' if that... and even that is in question.

At the end of the day in my view piston guns are not that much more reliable (if at all) than a DI gun, even shooting suppressed all day long.
That's interesting. Like I stated, I never really had an opinion one way or the other, but I wonder if what you've stated is what's going through folks minds around here. It's just like the whole "movement" around here, just disappeared.

FT

[alamo5000]

That's interesting. Like I stated, I never really had an opinion one way or the other, but I wonder if what you've stated is what's going through folks minds around here. It's just like the whole "movement" around here, just disappeared.

FT

I can only talk about myself but the appearance over time to me is that the piston sets are out there they just aren't being pushed nearly as much as before.

[fledge]

I think enough industry leaders have talked about this issue to shift the view that there's nothing wrong with a DI system for reliability. It needs lube and lots of it.

[FortTom]

I think enough industry leaders have talked about this issue to shift the view that there's nothing wrong with a DI system for reliability. It needs lube and lots of it.
Fledge,

Are you saying the manufacturers themselves knocked the halo and wings off of them (Piston kits), or reviewers, and product testers? I never heard much commotion about them while "disappearing" around here, they just seemed to "evaporate".

FT[:D]

[UWone77]

Piston kits have definitely fallen out of favor. Look at Adams Arms. Hardly anyone selling their gear anymore.

Superlative has a superior kit, but it's still not "mainstream" IMHO.

I think enough people realized that even shooting suppressed, the gas mitigation is suspect at best, and it definitely doesn't run much cleaner.

[fledge]

FT, I've seen industry leaders in the last couple years, like Vickers, dispel the myth that DI is unreliable and most troubleshooting reveals people simply don't lube enough which means operator error not system error.

[BoilerUp]

I valued interchangeability way more than something that was even 'marginally better' if that

That pretty much sums it up right there for me. There is a huge and well support aftermarket for DI and it works. The limited options for handguards is huge netative for me. Also, I'm a bit of an ounce counter and I'm not convinced that the benefits of pistons are worth the weight.

The only piston gun I have is an MPX but I wasn't that worried about going proprietary on 9mm, especially from a company like Sig. The innovative design of the MPX has impressed me enough that I wouldn't mind having an MCX, but it's hardly a priority.

But, to the original point, I agree that it does feel like the halo has fallen off piston guns, except maybe for HK but price of entry there is absurd. Even more absurd than a KAC stripped lower.

[voodoo_man]

My PWS is a work horse. I beat the crap out of that little diablo upper.

I have DI guns too, sort of a toss up really. DI guns are just cheap.

[Stone]

As far as after market kits go I think they have fallen off big time. I never really considered the idea useful. If you have a functioning DI rifle why would you frack with it to change it to a different system, if it isn't broke don't fix it. The choice for DI or piston really needs to come before a rifle is purchased. Not all piston systems are created equal. Some designs are ludicrous at best and some work extremely well. I have both, factory built pistons(LWRC's) and my personally built DI rifles. None of them have ever failed me, I do beat the ever loving snot out of all of them but I do take care of them as well. Unsuppressed the piston runs cleaner and cooler. Suppressed, they are the same. Dirty little girls. Each has their pro's and con's, its up to the end user to determine his or her needs.

[FortTom]

As I said in the OP, I don't really have an opinion, one way or the other. It was just manic hoopla here for 2 or 3 years with people preaching from the mountain tops about the virtues of the piston operated AR. But somewhere it went from frantic to crickets. For me, I didn't have a bad feeling about them.
My only legit opposition to one was that I'd never had a problem caused by DI, and like BoilerUp stated, he's a bit of an ounce counter, and I am too.

Also, just to differentiate, I'm not talking about all piston driven guns, such as HK, etc. Just the AR's. And the sudden silence over them in some of the areas I visit. I think I'm getting a pretty good mental picture, though, given all of the above responses. And I think those who were singing their praises the loudest, might be a bit disappointed, and might be a bit embarrassed by their zealousness. And now I know that I'm not living in the twilight zone, and that their decline is not just limited to here (local).

FT[:D]

[Joelski]

A lot of Adams problem was the dopey A4 handgaurds in an era of so many sweet rail choices. H&K, other than price, was met by a community hung up on its non-chrome lined barrel. LWRC and LMT; same price range as the H&K. That niches those guns into a more educated market.

Knowing kits like the S.A. are an easy, reversible, and relatively cheap conversion, I'm tempted to give it a try once I get my suppressor. That, and a JP captured spring to address both the "boing!" and carrier tilt. I figure it'll be a little on the piggy side, but that ole curiosity is killing the faking cat!

I've paid far more to learn far simpler lessons. If somebody has done this to a 10.5" 300 B.O., and changed back to DI, please stop me! (Or sell me your parts cheap) [:)]

[gatordev]

Carrier tilt isn't a foregone conclusion. My AA setup had no tilt issues on a carbine gas setup. If you're going to try it, I'd try whatever system you buy first before throwing more parts at the problem that you might not need.

[Joelski]

Getting the JP spring dealie because of the suppressor, not the piston system.

[gatordev]

Getting the JP spring dealie because of the suppressor, not the piston system.

Spring "sproing" was never something that I really understood as a problem after about the first 2 weeks of owning an AR, but to each his own. With a two (or three) position gas block on an op-rod gun running suppressed, the "sproing" seems even less of an issue, but that's me.

[tact]

I have owned more than a few piston (LWRC and PWS) rifles. They are excellent rifles and have taken a beaten over time, suppressed and I suppressed. I have never been a fan of slapping on one of those conversions to make a DI rifle a piston rifle. I'd rather buy a gun from a company that specifically engineered the rifle around the piston.

[Sancho Panza]

Interesting read, thanks.

[Former11B]

I have owned more than a few piston (LWRC and PWS) rifles. They are excellent rifles and have taken a beaten over time, suppressed and I suppressed. I have never been a fan of slapping on one of those conversions to make a DI rifle a piston rifle. I'd rather buy a gun from a company that specifically engineered the rifle around the piston.

I would agree that the way to go for piston ARs is a factory built one, not a DI conversion.

[murphy.kenji]

Adams has a sale going now to get a Samson Evo EX handguard with it's piston conversion kit. Pretty legit deal.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[murphy.kenji]

Adams has a sale going now to get a Samson Evo EX handguard with it's piston conversion kit. Pretty legit deal if you were going to go that route.