Suppressor Friendly Charging Handles

[0uTkAsT]

My go-to 11.5" BCM will soon be a suppressor host, and I'm really not interested in swapping bolt carriers or going to an adjustable gas system because it just plain works as is.

With that said, I'm curious about "suppressor friendly" charging handles... Raptor-SD, SNACH, Gas Buster, etc... I've heard they are kind of a mixed bag in general, but it's hard to find unbiased feedback on their effectiveness purely in terms of reducing gas to the face, so I'm soliciting your opinions. I should note that I really have no burning desire for ambi latches or anything like that, so the PRI seems every bit as attractive as the other two - I just want to keep blow-by out of my eyes and nose as much as possible without gutting my rifle and re-building the whole thing. If any of these really make a substantial difference, I'll buy it in a heartbeat... If not, I'd rather save my money and run the current Mod 4 with some RTV slapped on it and call it a day.

Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

[Jerry R]

The PRI Gas buster works pretty well. However, I currently run a replacement for the forward assist that has an outward facing port to direct gas in the upper away from the face. It is on my AR pistol; an 8.5" 223 WYLDE. Pistol has a standard charging handle and an AAC can. Lots of gas from this setup, but I don't get anything noticeable in my face from the bench or position shooting. Bought it at Rainier and it seems to work. gatordev did a review a couple years back and seems to concur, but not for left-handed shooters due to the location of the vent. http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?6042-AR-Gas-Vent

Don't know if they caught on or died the "novelty item" death so common for AR parts. Bing search (AR Gas Vent) shows them still available for under $40 at a couple of sites.

Lots of folks don't see the need for forward assist, and I've never had to use it. You may or may not want to put it on a "working" rifle; but then, I'm to old to be "working" any more [BD]

Tried to get a Rainier link for you, but cannot connect to their site. Can't seem to complete the handshake to mockingfish.com - I guess a server somewhere in the chain, or their host. Will update this response later when it is available. Picture below.

Edit: https://www.rainierarms.com/ar-gas-vent/

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4208/34969943061_826d5bd247_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Vhb6JM)Gas Vent (https://flic.kr/p/Vhb6JM) by Jerry R (https://www.flickr.com/photos/9663868@N05/), on Flickr

[gatordev]

Personally, short of the RTV fix, I've found gas in the face has FAR more to do with the gassiness of the rifle than the charging handle. Most of my charging handles are BCM Mod 4s (It's just what's worked for me) and I've found that an under-gassed upper with a suppressor gives no gas in the face with these, while a "normal" or slightly over-gassed upper will give mild to "more than mild" gas.

I don't have a ton of shooting time behind a normally gassed BCM (mine has a op-rod system on it with a suppressed gas setting, so it's not fair comparison), but they seem to be "typically" gassed, so you may get some with whatever flavor of charging handle you get, regardless of make.

I've also run the Gas Vent that Jerry mentions, and it definitely helped when shooting strong side. But if I had to shoot weak side (left side for me), it became very painful and worse than shooting without it.

I've also found that, at the end of the day, gas in the face isn't nearly as big a deal for an "average" gassed upper as people make it out to be (as a righty shooter). Yes, you notice it, then you keep shooting. If you mag dump, it can possibly get debilitating, but it's not a guarantee.

[fledge]

You'll know how much gas you can tolerate once you train with a can. The can is part of the system and *should* be gassed accordingly, hence the many adjustable products. Other than that it's compromise and tolerance if you want the system to remain the same with and sans can.

The Raptor SD doesn't do anything but hurt Radian's reputation with a gimmick.

Apart from an adjustable block or BRT insert, try increasing your buffer to delay extraction and keep the buffers that work in your kit.

[voodoo_man]

Just an FYI, gemtech's SBC and bootleg's 4 way adjustable bolt-carrier works awesome. The only reason not to get one of them is because you want to have gas face.

[Slippers]

Just an FYI, gemtech's SBC and bootleg's 4 way adjustable bolt-carrier works awesome. The only reason not to get one of them is because you want to have gas face.

Totally love my gemtech. Long strings of full-auto suppressed and no problems with gas face. Gun runs cleaner, doesn't dry up as quick, doesn't get all gritty. I just picked up a second one last week for a new build. :)

The bootleg isn't full-auto rated, for some reason.

[fairlanericky]

I run the SN-ACH on my suppressed 10.5" 556. The only time I really get gas face is during moderate firing at an indoor range. Also, you don't want
to be too close to a wall on your right side. Outdoors is great, the gas just blows off to the right away from my face.



Ric

[Former11B]

I used to do the RTV trick to milspec handles but got a deal on a SNACH and am using it on my most highly used suppressed AR.

I love it. I'll never go back. It wasn't so much the gas mitigation because I also have an adjustable block but the SNACH actually made the fit and feel of operating the rifle exponentially better, the gas relief is a bonus. It's an ambi charging handle which I hadn't fully utilized til shooting a match a couple weekends ago.

Can't go wrong here

[voodoo_man]

Totally love my gemtech. Long strings of full-auto suppressed and no problems with gas face. Gun runs cleaner, doesn't dry up as quick, doesn't get all gritty. I just picked up a second one last week for a new build. :)

The bootleg isn't full-auto rated, for some reason.

Cuz gemtech is just that much better ;)

[Slippers]

Cuz gemtech is just that much better ;)

Even though both carriers are made by the same company? Seems odd.

[Joelski]

Less liability to sell your FA capable BCG as Semi rated.

[Former11B]

I had a detailed write up of my SNACH then photobucket took a dump on me. I'll put everything back on IMGUR tonight and re-do it.

I even drilled a vent into a MILSPEC charging handle and I'd still take the SNACH every day of the week.

[Stickman]

Even though both carriers are made by the same company? Seems odd.

Don't believe the guy wearing a squid mask.

[SINNER]

Don't believe the guy wearing a squid mask.

That's just good life advice right there.

[alamo5000]

SNACH user here. Zero complaints. It does help, but it's all relative. It's one part among several that will make a difference to gas face.

I think it depends on the can...some are more prone to back pressure than others. Barrel length, ammo, gas block, rate of fire and several other things all matter. I read an article online that actually had hard data points about the pressure spike when you shoot. They started with a 24 inch barrel and cut off an inch at a time measuring velocity and pressure both. The shorter the barrel the less velocity, but the pressure spikes as do the decibels.

No big revelation there but I think taking a holistic approach to gassy face is the best way. With that in mind I have seen about a 95% approval rate of the SNACH. Of the other 5% they seem to expect it to fix a problem somewhere else. I view the SNACH and other components as just that...components that you can put together to help mitigate gassy face.

[alamo5000]

I'm really not interested in swapping bolt carriers or going to an adjustable gas system because it just plain works as is.

Another idea to think on... I don't know anyone else's experience, but here is mine...

Your rifle can be tuned to work perfectly non suppressed, but add a suppressor and it can change the 'tuning' of it. I went through several iterations to be able to have a rifle that will run suppressed and unsuppressed both.

I ended up having to use a extra power spring and a heavier buffer which allowed me to find that zone where both work. I do run an adjustable block but that's just me. I shoot suppressed 95% of the time but I also did extensive testing and tuning to make sure it will run both ways should the need arise. It's not directly applicable to gas face or charging handles but I felt it worth the mention.

[gatordev]

Another idea to think on... I don't know anyone else's experience, but here is mine...

Your rifle can be tuned to work perfectly non suppressed, but add a suppressor and it can change the 'tuning' of it. I went through several iterations to be able to have a rifle that will run suppressed and unsuppressed both.

I ended up having to use a extra power spring and a heavier buffer which allowed me to find that zone where both work. I do run an adjustable block but that's just me. I shoot suppressed 95% of the time but I also did extensive testing and tuning to make sure it will run both ways should the need arise. It's not directly applicable to gas face or charging handles but I felt it worth the mention.

But that was the whole point of my first post. If you start with a properly gassed barrel from the beginning, you eliminate all of the doodads (which equals additional money) and time wasted tuning to make it work AND you eliminate the issue of gas venting into the face.

If guys want to buy devices to combat an already existing condition, I get it. And many of those devices work very well. But what seems to have been missed when I initially posted is, if starting from scratch, it doesn't really matter what charging handle/carrier/suppressor/whatever you're using as long as you begin with a barrel that is built to match whatever ammo load you intend to use.

$99 barrels on sale are great, but there is a potential (but not a guarantee) that the $99 barrel will require additional monies to make it "more better" to run, given whatever one's needs are.

[Tlaloc]

How about this?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/15/review-axts-freedom-bone/

[Slippers]

How about this?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/15/review-axts-freedom-bone/

Does nothing to reduce gas to face and costs more than a normal raptor.

[UWone77]

How about this?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/15/review-axts-freedom-bone/

Great in theory, but where do you think the gas goes?

Raptors are still one of the best charging handles on the market, especially now with the LT. I'd still buy raptors, but not for gas mitigation.

[Aragorn]

Great in theory, but where do you think the gas goes?

Raptors are still one of the best charging handles on the market, especially now with the LT. I'd still buy raptors, but not for gas mitigation.

The LT? The what?

[Stickman]

The LT? The what?

https://radianweapons.com/accessories/charging-handles/raptor-lt-ambidextrous-charging-handle

[Aragorn]

https://radianweapons.com/accessories/charging-handles/raptor-lt-ambidextrous-charging-handle

Ah, the poly one. Thanks I'm new here.

[UWone77]

Ah, the poly one. Thanks I'm new here.

Hahahaha. Welcome Aragorn! [noob]

Handle them at TRIGGRCON. Already told Nick I wanted to order some. I like the feel of them and the lower price. I think they will do very well. They also dropped the price of the regular Raptor to $79.99. With sales, I suspect you'll see them in the Mid $60's.

[Joelski]

Hahahaha. Welcome Aragorn! [noob]

Handle them at TRIGGRCON. Already told Nick I wanted to order some. I like the feel of them and the lower price. I think they will do very well. They also dropped the price of the regular Raptor to $79.99. With sales, I suspect you'll see them in the Mid $60's.

Is that because of the market, or increased capacity?

[UWone77]

Is that because of the market, or increased capacity?

I don't know.

I would guess market. When Rainier was involved in the distribution of the Raptor, I believe the price was 89.99 from what I recall. When AXTS/Radian went to do it alone, the price went up to $99.99 - $120 depending on cerakote/color options.

Now it's back down to $79.99 with a $59.99 LT Option. I would also guess that by now they recouped their R&D money as well as got better and more efficient at making them.