First SBR in process. CMT PDW

[Pyzik]

Well.... it begins. CMT PDW arrived yesterday. Pinned 16" upper should arrive today to keep it useable until the stamp comes in.
I sent money and paper work to my local firearm lawyer for a Trust.

I'm really excited to start this. It's what selling the SMOS helped partially fund (trust and tax stamp). Having a feeling this is going to be my favorite rifle. Which is hard to say because I love my SSA build.

I'll use this thread as a progress thread.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4395/35691623963_827fc99ccc_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/WnWUjX)
PDW (https://flic.kr/p/WnWUjX) by Damage Photos (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[Former11B]

Looking good so far!

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Solid foundation for a great build.


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[Pyzik]

Looking good so far!


Solid foundation for a great build.
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Thanks guys. Looking at it, I think I am going to have to take the BAD pins out of my SSA and swap them with the SI pins I have sitting here for this lower. I don't think the sliding bar will clear the SI pins.

[Joelski]

Looking up from the bottom of the hill, it appears a long and arduous trip, but from the top, you'll be glad you did this. In a couple weeks, you'll start to forget and then one day, BAM! Stamp is approved and the wait starts all over to get it in your hands, only it's more of an enjoyable anticipation that time, like buying new parts and waiting for the mail call. My SBR is my favorite rifle by far. That is, until I have a second SBR. Same goes for cans!

[alamo5000]

Having a feeling this is going to be my favorite rifle. Which is hard to say because I love my SSA build.

I can already answer this for you [:D]

I built an SBR and it's my most fun gun to shoot by far.

[UWone77]

The PDW is the shit. You will love shooting it. 7.5 or 10.5 are my faves for that.

4002

[Former11B]

The PDW is the shit. You will love shooting it. 7.5 or 10.5 are my faves for that.

4002


You tease me with that Mini 4 every chance you get. I'm up for a new upper build also [:)]

[GOST]

What length you going with?

[Pyzik]

The PDW is the shit. You will love shooting it. 7.5 or 10.5 are my faves for that.

4002Hawt. I like how the 7.5 barrel looks best but ballistics... only having 1, I need the most I can get.
What length you going with?Wanting to go with somewhere between 9". and 10.5". Trying to get as close to 26" OAL while staying under.

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[Former11B]

Hawt. I like how the 7.5 barrel looks best but ballistics... only having 1, I need the most I can get.Wanting to go with somewhere between 9". and 10.5". Trying to get as close to 26" OAL while staying under.

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I think if you're gonna go, go all out. 7.5".... probably be around 2100fps muzzle with 77gr OTM ammo. If your intended use is HD and a small truck gun.....you're fine.

[Pyzik]

I think if you're gonna go, go all out. 7.5".... probably be around 2100fps muzzle with 77gr OTM ammo. If your intended use is HD and a small truck gun.....you're fine.Really? I like the idea of a 7.5 too once I add a suppressor.

Maybe I'll look into it some more.

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[UWone77]

7.5 is not ideal obviously, but this is a PDW build right? I think for a PDW, short is the goal. You have plenty of other guns you can shoot for max velocity. You can also just build another upper later. I'm sure Jeff is more than happy to supply another upper.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Yea register it for the 7.5" and you can always swap uppers.


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[Pyzik]

7.5 is not ideal obviously, but this is a PDW build right? I think for a PDW, short is the goal. You have plenty of other guns you can shoot for max velocity. You can also just build another upper later. I'm sure Jeff is more than happy to supply another upper.Hmm. Valid points. I had a 10.5 pistol for a bit and it was alright.... I do want to go a tad shorter. I'll see if someone local has a 7.5 I can play with.

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[gatordev]

Yea register it for the 7.5" and you can always swap uppers.


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I'd argue a more accurate statement is to register it for whatever the first upper will end up being (ie, the one you'll have on hand first), then swap uppers.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I'd argue a more accurate statement is to register it for whatever the first upper will end up being (ie, the one you'll have on hand first), then swap uppers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought "technically" you weren't suppose to go lower than what it's registered as? Which is what I Vader my statement on.


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[Slippers]

As long as it's a temporary change and you keep the original upper you can put any length you want. The ATF recommends that you send them notification if you intend to change to a different length, otherwise. You won't get a confirmation, it's a one way notification letter from you to the ATF.

[Joelski]

Really interested in the definitive answer; my understanding is once you have an SBR lower, it can host any pistol upper, as long as it can be returned to it's registered configuration. Is this incorrect?

[Joelski]

As long as it's a temporary change and you keep the original upper you can put any length you want. The ATF recommends that you send them notification if you intend to change to a different length, otherwise. You won't get a confirmation, it's a one way notification letter from you to the ATF.

Will, is that for a semi-permanent change, or say if you want to slap a 7.5" on and throw fireballs for a couple hours?

[Former11B]

Really interested in the definitive answer; my understanding is once you have an SBR lower, it can host any pistol upper, as long as it can be returned to it's registered configuration. Is this incorrect?

The NFA Section mod on ARFCOM (BigWaylon) has always held that once it's an SBR'd lower, you can use any upper on it. The ATF stuff says "temporary" change but there's nothing that dictates temporary vs permanent unless you sell it I guess

[alamo5000]

I don't know the answer but most likely the ATF is arbitrary AF on a lot of things and this issue is probably no different.

Ask 10 ATF agents and you will get 4 or 5 various answers at least.

[Slippers]

Exactly, there are probably a few dozen determination letters that all contradict each other.

The way it's written, if you make a permanent change, they suggest you send a notification letter. I am of the opinion that a permanent change would be disassembling or selling the original upper, and not having another with the same barrel length.

I have half a dozen sbr lowers that were submitted with different barrel length and oal, and swap uppers all the time. There should be nothing to worry about.

[gatordev]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought "technically" you weren't suppose to go lower than what it's registered as? Which is what I Vader my statement on.


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What I was getting at is that it has nothing to do with what's the shortest barrel. That's a common internet misconception. It's based off of what the initial ("permanent") configuration was. With the AR platform, that's always where the confusion comes, since it's so configurable.

As Will said, you can put as many uppers on the lower once it's SBR'ed, regardless of how "small" the barrel length was when taxed, but technically (which of course is different than what may be done in practice) if you sell/destroy the original upper (ie, original configuration), you have to notify the ATF of the change.

So if he is taxed on a lower stating 7.5, but never buys a 7.5" and buys a 10.5", then that's technically a permanent change. And again, as Will said, you just have to send off a letter.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Thanks for the clarification.


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[Joelski]

BTW: if anybody writes the ATF seeking a "clarification" and fucks the whole thing up like some dope did with arm braces, we should drive to their house and beat them senseless with their own arm, ripped from their rshoulder joint! [:D]

And yes, I know they reversed their decision, but stupid questions just beg for that shit!

[UWone77]

Cause options....

4008

[Pyzik]

Cause options....

4008

Just saw that on IF. Hawt.

Who is the lefty upper for?

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[Dstrbdmedic167]

Just saw that on IF. Hawt.

Who is the lefty upper for?

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Me! Lol j/k he shoots left like I do lol

This just reminds me I need to do a lefty build.


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[SINNER]

Who is the lefty upper for?

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Me

[UWone77]

There are a bunch of us wrong handed shooters here.

[Joelski]

Sinister plot? [;)]

[Pyzik]

Uwone, is that 7.5 .300 or 5.56?

I'm thinking if I go 7.5 I will go .300 and stay away from 5.56. Not that I need another caliber but, I would like to think of it as a defensive gun and I'm not sure I'm fully on board with 5.56 out of a 7.5

[velocity2006]

I would like to think of it as a defensive gun and I'm not sure I'm fully on board with 5.56 out of a 7.5

My 7.5 inch 5.56 has been 100% and will most certainly put a hole in someones head if they break into my house. Don't believe all the internet hype that your going to loose all the FPS's because you chose a short barrel. You plan on using this defensively past 100 yards?

But... I do have a 10.5 inch 300 blk also lol. I am with UW just get both.

[Pyzik]

My 7.5 inch 5.56 has been 100% and will most certainly put a hole in someones head if they break into my house. Don't believe all the internet hype that your going to loose all the FPS's because you chose a short barrel. You plan on using this defensively past 100 yards?

But... I do have a 10.5 inch 300 blk also lol. I am with UW just get both.

VERY unlikely to go past 100. More likely I am thinking 0-25, maybe 50m. Realistically.
Another concern of mine is ballistics around vehicles. I'll be treating this as a true PDW as much as I can. Which means going in my car and having at work.
I will be at a Will Petty Vehicle Ballistic Seminar next Friday and plan to pose many questions to him then.

[velocity2006]

At 0-25 the a 7.5 inch should be fine. I take my 7.5 Aero out to 100 regularly, it is just as accurate as my 16inch. Both 5.56 and .300BLK will be extremely loud indoors un-suppressed.

If you are truly wanting a PDW for the purpose of going in a vehicle the shortest option would be my pick. That said, I do prefer the size and feel of the 10.5, I think its the perfect balance between a full size and a PDW. Get both.

[mustangfreek]

Wow , nice build under way

[Pyzik]

CMC came the other day

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4430/35915154273_7ed9b3176e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/WHGy6P)
CMC Flat (https://flic.kr/p/WHGy6P) by Damage Photos (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[Pyzik]

Trust just arrived. So, now I really need to figure out what I'm doing so I can get an OAL figured out!

[alamo5000]

Trust just arrived. So, now I really need to figure out what I'm doing so I can get an OAL figured out!

You are finally getting into the NFA thing? Congrats.

I have never used it before but the Silencer Shop has a thing where you can do your SBR forms for a small fee. I would definitely give that a go.

[Pyzik]

You are finally getting into the NFA thing? Congrats.

I have never used it before but the Silencer Shop has a thing where you can do your SBR forms for a small fee. I would definitely give that a go.

Yup. There is a kiosk at one of my local FFLs. I think it's $35. Totally worth it. And their bar-code system is up and working so it's perfect timing for me..... as long as I can figure out OAL... LOL

[alamo5000]

Yup. There is a kiosk at one of my local FFLs. I think it's $35. Totally worth it. And their bar-code system is up and working so it's perfect timing for me..... as long as I can figure out OAL... LOL

How many people are on your trust? Each one of those people will need to have a log in and do their prints at the kiosk, take a photo, etc. I would go ahead and upload the trust and get that stuff started first. Once it's all set up the rest is easy. Most of it is just a one and done.

The only thing I have to do now is once a year just upload a new selfie. The prints and all that stay on file. Getting everyone there is more time consuming than actually doing the rest of it.

Figuring out OAL is easy but someone else will have to tell you how to officially do it.

[Pyzik]

How many people are on your trust? Each one of those people will need to have a log in and do their prints at the kiosk, take a photo, etc. I would go ahead and upload the trust and get that stuff started first. Once it's all set up the rest is easy. Most of it is just a one and done.

The only thing I have to do now is once a year just upload a new selfie. The prints and all that stay on file. Getting everyone there is more time consuming than actually doing the rest of it.

Figuring out OAL is easy but someone else will have to tell you how to officially do it.

Just me for now to keep it simple. Once the SBR is done and myabe an SBS (have one sitting here ready to file, just need the $200) I'll add my wife.

Well, you might think the OAL is easy but I still don't really know if I want to go .300 or 5.56. What barrel length do I want? 8" or 9" for .300, 7.5 or 10 for 5.56? LOL

[UWone77]

For standard lowers, adding 19" to your barrel length is a pretty good rule of thumb.

I can't recall what my PDW Form says, I think 24 or 25" OAL with a 7.5

[alamo5000]

Just me for now to keep it simple. Once the SBR is done and myabe an SBS (have one sitting here ready to file, just need the $200) I'll add my wife.

Well, you might think the OAL is easy but I still don't really know if I want to go .300 or 5.56. What barrel length do I want? 8" or 9" for .300, 7.5 or 10 for 5.56? LOL

As far as who is on the trust once you get it done once it's easy after that. I have two people on mine and it's now very simple to do. Once you submit stuff they send each person an email and you have to digitally sign and that's about it. Plus each person needs to keep a picture on file that gets updated once a year.

I did 10.5 on my SBR and I like it. In that caliber though I personally am not sure if I would go lower than that. I am sure people do it all the time. If you are going for super compact then just register it as a .300 with an 8" barrel or something like that. Having other uppers is not too hard.

Then again I say that but considering that I like nice stuff my uppers aren't cheap especially when you start adding nice glass to them.

[Pyzik]

I'm just going to file it at 25.5" and go with a 10.5" 5.56 to start. That'll keep me RIGHT under 26" which is my MAX OAL I wanted to be at due to state laws.
Going 5.56 will offer me the simplicity of only dealing with a single caliber between guns.

I'll branch out from there once a suppressor is closer to being in my future.

Thanks all! I'll be filing asap.

[gatordev]

If you are going for super compact then just register it as a .300 with an 8" barrel or something like that. Having other uppers is not too hard.

Again, that's not how the law reads. From a legal/ATF perspective (versus what any JoeBob on the internet says), you are requesting to manufacturer a firearm, so what you're making needs to be exactly what you put on the form. Once permission is granted and the firearm is manufactured, then you can run 16 other uppers on it (assuming it's an AR SBR that was manufactured). But just "put something short and pick a cool caliber" isn't how the ATF expects you to apply for the tax.

Of course what JoeBob does is JoeBob's business, but in the interest of putting out correct information, it's important be precise with words.

[Joelski]

How are you getting 25.5" with a 10.5" inch barrel? Mine came out to 28" with the stock fully collapsed.

[Pyzik]

How are you getting 25.5" with a 10.5" inch barrel? Mine came out to 28" with the stock fully collapsed.PDW stock?
Not counting muzzle device.

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[Joelski]

Ah! Got me there. Shit, if you're doing PDW stock, 8" is a no brainer. I've seen where guys have said Reliable #7 burns completely in an 8 incher.

[Pyzik]

Ah! Got me there. Shit, if you're doing PDW stock, 8" is a no brainer. I've seen where guys have said Reliable #7 burns completely in an 8 incher.I don't reload and not sure I want to jump into 300. I keep thinking I do then changing my mind

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[UWone77]

I don't reload and not sure I want to jump into 300. I keep thinking I do then changing my mind

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gatordev pretty much summed it up on the 300 thread why not to go 300.



That said, I just can't find much use for 300BO on the range. I don't reload, so the ammo is too expensive compared to 5.56. If I'm trying to shoot super-quiet, I'll just shoot my MP5 for much less money. But that's just me.

You don't have a can, so there would be no reason to shoot subs. At that point why shoot supers at the range? You can just shoot 5.56 for 1/2 the cost.

[Pyzik]

gatordev pretty much summed it up on the 300 thread why not to go 300.



You don't have a can, so there would be no reason to shoot subs. At that point why shoot supers at the range? You can just shoot 5.56 for 1/2 the cost.I thought I was decided until I came to pretty much the same conclusion as you in the second statement.

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[UWone77]

I wish I had a spare 7.5" 5.56 barrel to send you so this decision wouldn't have taken this long. [:D]

[Pyzik]

I wish I had a spare 7.5" 5.56 barrel to send you so this decision wouldn't have taken this long. [:D]Hahaha, I was just looking up "7.5 AR barrel ballistics" on youtube

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[alamo5000]

The good thing about a 7.5 barrel is if you don't hit anything you will still deafen the bad guy and scare the shit out of him by noise alone.

[Pyzik]

Here is how she's sitting right now. Have an FDE RMR waiting to be mounted on.

4175

I was bored so, crappy photoshop just to see about how it would look. Will probably get fixed irons, still unsure. Will have a vert grip though instead of the handstop kit.

4176

[Pyzik]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4392/37133311326_3850cc0901_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YzkVKC)
CMT (https://flic.kr/p/YzkVKC) by Damage Photos (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[Pyzik]

Hit the range for a quick trip yesterday (finally). Only had half an our. Got the RMR sighted in and burned a hundred rounds.
Need to REALLY join a club around here. Driving almost an hour for a state run range or being limited to an indoor range sucks.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4337/37196007052_30b5f27af1_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YETg1q)
Range Trip (https://flic.kr/p/YETg1q) by Damage Photos (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[Slippers]

Hit the range for a quick trip yesterday (finally). Only had half an our. Got the RMR sighted in and burned a hundred rounds.
Need to REALLY join a club around here. Driving almost an hour for a state run range or being limited to an indoor range sucks.


North Carolina is calling to you....

[Pyzik]

North Carolina is calling to you....

Hey, we want to move. We both like NC as a destination....

I'm keeping an eye out for jobs right now actually. We really are looking to get out of MI.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Slippers, he was super jealous when I told him I took the AK outside and test fired it after installing the trigger yesterday. Bonus for living in the country and BFE!


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[Pyzik]

Slippers, he was super jealous when I told him I took the AK outside and test fired it after installing the trigger yesterday. Bonus for living in the country and BFE!


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Haha, I USED to be able to do that. I grew up on 50 acres and lived on a farm for most of my life. ;) Can't wait to move back.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Haha, I USED to be able to do that. I grew up on 50 acres and lived on a farm for most of my life. ;) Can't wait to move.

We can find you a spot between slippers and I. Would work out well lol.


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[Pyzik]

We can find you a spot between slippers and I. Would work out well lol.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFind me a job first. Will take $60k. Above would be better. [emoji2]

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[Dstrbdmedic167]

Find me a job first. Will take $60k. Above would be better. [emoji2]

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Of course.


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[UWone77]

Find me a job first. Will take $60k. Above would be better. [emoji2]

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The medic didn't even pull that kind of cash!

[UWone77]

Find me a job first. Will take $60k. Above would be better. [emoji2]

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The medic didn't even pull that kind of cash!

[Pyzik]

The medic didn't even pull that kind of cash!

Pff. Well.... Cost of living is probably higher here.

Waiting to see what the end of the year brings. If my company doesn't bump me, we'll be very seriously looking at moving sooner than later.

I'm trying to talk the wife into more your way. Not quite as far as you but I'd take Utah in a heartbeat. Wyoming or Kansas seems nice too.

[Joelski]

I'd do Utah or Idaho for the wheeling. I want to build a Scorpion chassis something awful!

[GOST]

Don't settle for $60,000.

[Pyzik]

Don't settle for $60,000.That's just pretty much my line in the sand. Absolutely looking for more (even at my current employer).

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[UWone77]

I vote the PDW still needs a 7.5" [:D]

[GOST]

Jobs on the Oak Ridge reservation pay well, the USW that pump gas there making $37 an hour.

[Pyzik]

Jobs on the Oak Ridge reservation pay well, the USW that pump gas there making $37 an hour.What?

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[GOST]

Some of the guys I oversee at work gross a little over 6 figures with overtime. These union guys make a lot more than guys with college degrees. TN is where it's at, no state income tax and the cost of living is low. We also have CMT as I'm sure you know.

[Txfilmmaker]

Some of the guys I oversee at work gross a little over 6 figures with overtime. These union guys make a lot more than guys with college degrees. TN is where it's at, no state income tax and the cost of living is low. We also have CMT as I'm sure you know.

As a former employee of CMT, I assure you, I didn't make that much money at CMT. I really liked Tennessee. If I had been making that much $, I'd still be there.


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[Pyzik]

As a former employee of CMT, I assure you, I didn't make that much money at CMT. I really liked Tennessee. If I had been making that much $, I'd still be there.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI think he meant Oak Ridge Reservation. Tennessee has the bonus of also having CMT in the state.

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[Txfilmmaker]

I know. I did work for CMT and wished I'd made that much. I was about to edit my post because I thought it wasn't clear. TN is a very nice state.


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[Pyzik]

I know. I did work for CMT and wished I'd made that much. I was about to edit my post because I thought it wasn't clear. TN is a very nice state.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkUnderstood. Didn't know you worked for CMT. Firearm stuff? I'd love to so something gun related full time.

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[Big_Tom]

Understood. Didn't know you worked for CAT. Firearm stuff? I'd love to so something gun related full time.

Sent from my SM-G930V using TapatalkI'm with you on that. I wish I could find a full time career in the firearm industry. It would definitely beat my current J.O.B.

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[Dstrbdmedic167]

All I can say is I am blessed! All the torture I get from UW was and is worth it!

[GOST]

Marty did you work for Cross Machine & Tool or Country Music Television?

[Txfilmmaker]

Understood. Didn't know you worked for CMT. Firearm stuff? I'd love to so something gun related full time.

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Country Music Television - I forgot about Cross Machine Tool when I posted.


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[alamo5000]

Country Music Television - I forgot about Cross Machine Tool when I posted.


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You forgot Cross Machine Tool?!!?!?!?! With this crowd!?!?!

LOL!!!!!

[UWone77]

I'm with you on that. I wish I could find a full time career in the firearm industry. It would definitely beat my current J.O.B.

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I hear this from people all the time and think... why? There is hardly any money in the firearms industry unless you're an owner or a big wig in the company.

I think if you enjoy firearms, it would be a good retirement gig. Drawing your retirement plus whatever small wage you earn from your firearms industry job.

[Pyzik]

I hear this from people all the time and think... why? There is hardly any money in the firearms industry unless you're an owner or a big wig in the company.

I think if you enjoy firearms, it would be a good retirement gig. Drawing your retirement plus whatever small wage you earn from your firearms industry job.Currently that's my plan. I know I could never actually retire. I think I'd like to work in a small shop or whatever. Pass time doing something I enjoy and a little spare money would likely be nice.

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[Big_Tom]

I hear this from people all the time and think... why? There is hardly any money in the firearms industry unless you're an owner or a big wig in the company.

I think if you enjoy firearms, it would be a good retirement gig. Drawing your retirement plus whatever small wage you earn from your firearms industry job.Well that's the issue I won't be a owner or big wig. I have multiple opportunities to work part time at my LGS but I'm already busy as is. It would be fun but I wouldn't have any time for the family.

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[Pyzik]

Well that's the issue I won't be a owner or big wig. I have multiple opportunities to work part time at my LGS but I'm already busy as is. It would be fun but I wouldn't have any time for the family.

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Gotta be careful though, it can turn into real work and not be fun anymore. That's why I stopped stippling.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4397/37312153165_8c98cbda84_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YR9xcB)
PDW (https://flic.kr/p/YR9xcB) by Damage Photos (https://www.flickr.com/photos/damagephotos/), on Flickr

[UWone77]

Currently that's my plan. I know I could never actually retire. I think I'd like to work in a small shop or whatever. Pass time doing something I enjoy and a little spare money would likely be nice.

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That's my plan, when I retire, I'm going to work at Rainier or Fortis part time. [:D]

If I move to TN, I'll work at CMT.

[Pyzik]

That's my plan, when I retire, I'm going to work at Rainier or Fortis part time. [:D]

If I move to TN, I'll work at CMT.Hey, I thought we just talked about that... I'M moving to TN. [emoji14]

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[Txfilmmaker]

You forgot Cross Machine Tool?!!?!?!?! With this crowd!?!?!

LOL!!!!!

I'm an idiot. Ha ha I am a proud owner of a CMT Upper and BCG.


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[Slippers]

That's my plan, when I retire, I'm going to work at Rainier or Fortis part time. [:D]

If I move to TN, I'll work at CMT.

I would love to see your brand of customer service. Picture a hipster walking in with skinny jeans and a garbage gun, and getting the full critique!

[SINNER]

That's my plan, when I retire, I'm going to work at Rainier or Fortis part time. [:D]

If I move to TN, I'll work at CMT.

Jeff will be bankrupt in a month with your pricing policy.

[UWone77]

Jeff will be bankrupt in a month with your pricing policy.

3 months. [:D]

[Aberration79]

What is the difference between the CMT and BAD PDW receivers? Its looks like the BAD is lightened up a bit, but they look like the same units.