Anyone interested in long distance .22LR ?

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Boyd's stocks were mentioned in another thread which got me to thinking about my Savage FV-SR.

For this rifle I wanted a rimfire that was at home on our 60yd plinking range as well as our 300yd high power range.

The scope is a fixed 16x magnification SWFA. It seemed like an ideal optic for what I wanted to do. It had over 100moa of elevation adjustment and the reviews indicated the internal adjustment mechanisms were proving to hold up to abuse. That was important because going from 60 to 300yds requires a significant amount of turret cranking. And speaking of turrets, the large markings are easy on older eyes. The price was right at $300 so I clicked the buy button.

Even with over 100moa of elevation adjustment I knew that alone wasn't going to carry it to 300yds. Canted scope bases for the FV-SR were pretty slim pickings so I got the idea to call EGW Gun Parts who specialize in this sort of thing. Super nice guys. They said they'd be glad to help and would recut my base to whatever I wanted. A couple weeks later I had a 40moa base for a mere $25 labor charge. How great is that! I purchased a pair of TPS super low rings... done with the sighting system.

The plastic stock that comes with the FV-SR works ok, but I wanted something heavier for bench shooting with a higher cheek rest. Really not a lot to chose from. Selected a Boyd's "Tacticool" stock. I think they have since changed the flaky name to something a bit more respectable haha. Anyway, the barrel channel is more than adequate for the heavy-profile FV-SR barrel. No touching. The bottom metal was really weak so I purchased a D.I.P. bottom metal and trigger guard kit. Bottom metal is much thicker and allows for more precise torque on the action screws. Still, the cheek height wasn't high enough so I picked up a Midway cheek riser. Ah... just right.

The FV-SR barrel comes threaded properly for rimfire- 1/28 X .4in, so that required nothing other than to spin on a YHM Wraith can.

Done.

I'm here to tell ya that long distance suppressed rimfire shooting is a ton of fun. Nice calm morning at the club when no one else is around... no ear protection strapped to yer head, no recoil... just birds singing in the tress. Click... waiting.... waiting.... waiting... 'ding' on the steel plate. As relaxing and enjoyable as shooting gets.

http://i.imgur.com/fz0VqRI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6UqCHgk.jpg

[UWone77]

Never taken my 10/22 or any other .22LR rifle over 100 yards. Is Long Distance .22LR shooting a thing? Genuinely asking.. cause it sounds like a blast.

[gatordev]

It can be pretty fun, at least for a little bit. Obviously size of the target affects things. When I lived in San Diego, I tried taking my Winchester 62 out to 200 on a big-ass gong, but couldn't do it reliably with regular Walmart/Federal fare. However, my Nordic Components .22 AR upper was able to reliably hit steel at 200 with a cheap PA red dot once I figured out the hold. The problem was making sure other people weren't shooting so I could hear the "ding," but the old-timers at the range were just busy talking anyway, so all was good.

(Cheap optic not depicted here)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4368/36453225210_8fcc3a9427_b.jpg

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Never taken my 10/22 or any other .22LR rifle over 100 yards. Is Long Distance .22LR shooting a thing? Genuinely asking.. cause it sounds like a blast.


It's not something organized like NRA Smallbore or anything like that, but there is a guy on ARFcom (I think he's in Kentucky or Ohio) that has some property and organizes informal meets. Never been.

Yes, it's a lot of fun. I'd like to stretch mine out further than 300yds. With standard velocity ammo it will reach out to 400yds using reticle holdover, and a bit further with high velocity ammo.

At 300yds these little CCI SV cartriges perform pretty well on a calm day.

http://i.imgur.com/7llljAu.png

https://i.imgur.com/O6NkXj2.jpg

[ChattanoogaPhil]

https://i.imgur.com/tLXmr2U.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/1xgYPCc.jpg

[Pyzik]

That looks like a nice little plinker.

I used to shoot my .22 a LOT. I haven't even had it out in I don't know how long. Maybe it's time to bust it back out and soup it up.
I'm like Uwone, 100 is the furthest I've had mine it's that not all that easy (for me).

Now you have me wanting to do appleseed again.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Nice calm blue-sky morning... no one at the club but a couple birds singing in the trees... hot cup of coffee on the bench... click.... pffff ..... ..... ..... .... ding. That's what my FV-SR is all about... relaxing. Love it.

[Pyzik]

Nice calm blue-sky morning... no one at the club but a couple birds singing in the trees... hot cup of coffee on the bench... click.... pffff ..... ..... ..... .... ding. That's what my FV-SR is all about... relaxing. Love it.

That does sound like a great day. Making my retirement plans. [BD]

[UWone77]

That does sound like a great day. Making my retirement plans. [BD]

Except it's not at a club, it's your backyard.

I quit shooting .22lr for awhile when prices of ammo just got stupid. I had a good stash of 22 and didn't want to burn it up until I could get a resupply. Now that it's back, I need to shoot my 10/22 more. I also have a Gemtech MIST I'm waiting approval on, so I'll have to build a 10/22 around that. Thinking Magpul Chassis, Timney Trigger, ect.

[alamo5000]

Thinking Magpul Chassis, Timney Trigger, ect.

I have a Kidd trigger sitting in a box waiting for me to finish the build on. I tested a ton of 10/22 triggers and man, I am telling you what... that thing is awesome. I pulled that one a couple times and said 'well that's it. my search is over.'

Give em a look.

[UWone77]

I have a Kidd trigger sitting in a box waiting for me to finish the build on. I tested a ton of 10/22 triggers and man, I am telling you what... that thing is awesome. I pulled that one a couple times and said 'well that's it. my search is over.'

Give em a look.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. First time putting together a 10/22 so I've been looking on and off for various parts.

[alamo5000]

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. First time putting together a 10/22 so I've been looking on and off for various parts.

I researched the crap out of stuff for 10/22 and Kidd is the way to go. Bolts and barrels and all that I haven't tested yet (but I will soon enough hopefully)... but the triggers... you don't need bother with anything less....

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Been thinking of doing the same with a 10/22.

I've got a Magpul Hunter on a Rem 700 .308.
A trainer is always a good excuse to drop $1,500 on another rimfire to save money on ammo.
Hell, with all the money I've saved I should be rich by now.

[Joelski]

Your shooting spot looks like a nice place to practice with the driver, and long irons too. So jelly!

[Naytwan]

I’d love to see if I could get solid hits past 100 with mine. I do enjoy hitting a 4” plate at 100. Prime 22lr is pretty legit stuff in my 10/22 with green mountain barrel and magpul stock. Vortex on top.

[UWone77]

I decided to go with the Volquartsen Precision Competition Kit. Bolt, Receiver, and Trigger, everything I need to finish off my 10/22

https://volquartsen.com/products/341-precision-competition-kit

Looking forward to at least hitting the 100 yard range with it. Probably overkill for a Gemtech MIST barrel, but whatever.

[alamo5000]

I decided to go with the Volquartsen Precision Competition Kit. Bolt, Receiver, and Trigger, everything I need to finish off my 10/22

https://volquartsen.com/products/341-precision-competition-kit

Looking forward to at least hitting the 100 yard range with it. Probably overkill for a Gemtech MIST barrel, but whatever.

Nice. I don't think you overdid it at all. I prefer Kidd but that was only based on comparing triggers between the two.

Hitting a 100 yard 1/2 size target is not a problem but when you shoot subs and when it gets windy it gets pretty fun. 15mph crosswind with subsonic 22LR... I had to aim like 5 feet to the right and about 3 feet high.

For real accuracy I have been testing ammo. Federal UltraMatch is the most expensive stuff out there (that I tested) but I got really good accuracy out of it and it's subsonic. So far I've tested about 10 different brands out of my rifle and pistol both. Moreso the pistol because I had to screw around with it more than the rifle.

Let us know how she shoots once you put it together. Odds are you will see giant differences in accuracy depending on the brand and type of ammo.

If I get the chance (not high on the priority list) I will build a gun around one of these:

https://volquartsen.com/inventory_configurations/1378

I have found that shooting with a suppressor will gum up your 10/22 action after a while.

[Joelski]

Alamo and Phil, have you studied lead buildup in your cans to see if it's really a thing with .22 ammo? Would be curious to see how much of a thing that really is. You guys have me interested in an optimus micro and some kind of 10/22; perhaps a backpacker combo.

[Former11B]

Helped a friend build a 10/22 with a PWS Summit action, 16” Kidd Bull barrel and Kidd 2-stage booger hook. 3-12x42 optic in a Boyd’s stock. Tried all types of ammo: Gemtech, Eley, Wolf match, SK, CCI Green Tag. Shoots MOA @ 100yds

It’s amazing to shoot. Absolutely smooth


And Joelski, go for it!! The OPM is awesome

[alamo5000]

Alamo and Phil, have you studied lead buildup in your cans to see if it's really a thing with .22 ammo? Would be curious to see how much of a thing that really is. You guys have me interested in an optimus micro and some kind of 10/22; perhaps a backpacker combo.

I am shooting my Revolution 9 configured for .22LR while I wait for my OPM to get set free. I shot probably 1,500 to 2,000 rounds through the can and finally gave it it's first cleaning yesterday. It was like there was tar filling up half the baffles. Dude, that thing was NASTY.

A couple of thoughts after that little experiment.

I went waaaay too long in between cleanings. The diameter of the Revolution is bigger than any regular .22 LR can but I can see that I over did it some. With that amount of gunk in a smaller diameter can it would have basically nearly clogged it up and/or had so much build up that it could impact the bullet and cause a baffle strike. In other words keep your can fairly clean and it will be gtg.

Another important lesson---build materials and design matters---a lot. Now I know for sure that having a fully shielded can makes all the difference. if you're in there trying to brush out hard caked on stuff from your tube, it will really suck. As for baffles mine are SS. The OPM is also SS. You can just throw them in a wet tumbler and they will be gtg. Mine I had to tumble through three cycles but they came out looking brand spanking new.

Others will have to confirm this because I never dealt with cans of other build types, but funky weird baffle designs and especially baffles that are made out of other materials will be a royal PITA (my personal opinion- and part of the reason I bought the OPM). Things like aluminum baffles not only are more porous, but gunk (and lead) will build up on those and be twice as hard to get off. One because of the material, but two because you can't use any simple yet more 'rough' ways to get it off.

I don't know how people clean say a pure aluminum can. Somebody else will have to chime in there but it seems like it would be much more of a PITA than just tossing the baffles in a rotary tumbler and going to bed.

Directly to your question, it's a thing, but it depends on your can. The design, construction, and materials matter. After my little endurance test for the suppressor (albeit a 9mm configurable can) it still shed a lot of light on things. IMO if you stick with the fully shielded designs and SS baffles this is much better if only for maintenance reasons.

[Former11B]

I have an aluminum .22 can. I coat the monocore with a thin coat of dielectric grease. It acts as an ablative and I can wipe the core clean with a paper towel (wearing gloves of course) and stuffing another paper towel down in the tube, spinning it around and pulling it out cleans the tube sufficiently well. Reapply grease and reinstall. I’ve also never had the core lock up inside the tube after shooting either. My 9mm van is aluminum but has K baffles; principle is the same

[alamo5000]

I have an aluminum .22 can. I coat the monocore with a thin coat of dielectric grease. It acts as an ablative and I can wipe the core clean with a paper towel (wearing gloves of course) and stuffing another paper towel down in the tube, spinning it around and pulling it out cleans the tube sufficiently well. Reapply grease and reinstall. I’ve also never had the core lock up inside the tube after shooting either. My 9mm van is aluminum but has K baffles; principle is the same

Better to go with the OPM for .22LR [:D] Less grease and less leg work. LOL!

I had to wet tumble the baffles for a total of 9 hours and they were SPOTLESS.

Joel, at the end of the day carbon build up is a thing. You can try to prevent it or you can try to get it off but just know what you are working with before you start and it should be ok. About 500 rounds +- a hundred or two and you should be cleaning a .22 diameter can. Just how easy you want that job to be is up to you and what you pick for a .22 LR option.

[Former11B]

NINE HOURS? More like nine minutes and my cam was back in business. Also, cleaning them to a brand new state is counter productive; they’re quieter with a little crud on them

[alamo5000]

NINE HOURS? More like nine minutes and my cam was back in business. Also, cleaning them to a brand new state is counter productive; they’re quieter with a little crud on them

They probably were done a lot sooner than that. I just turned it on and left it for a while. I figured one run wasn't enough considering I shot probably right around 2,000 rounds of .22 LR through it. There was so much gunk and grime.

I will get mine dirty again soon enough. [:D] I wanted to shoot some 9mm so I had to clean it up before I changed configurations.

[Joelski]

Wow! That's got me wondering how the Ti baffles in my Alpha will fare. I've yet to clean it, however I haven't put many rounds through it since getting it; maybe 480 to 500, I need to check my book. Still, I figure Ti will end-up somewhere in between SS and Al on the pain-in-the-ass scale. Griffin recommends using a 1.5" steel pipe brush for cleaning the tube. It's 17-4 SS which according to them is tough stuff as far as tubes go. I figure a brush on a drill should have it decently clean in no time (I hope). I was considering an ultrasound cleaner to get the crap buildup off the baffles, but not sure that's a stout enough measure. I was really entertaining that thought on the hope someone would chime in that it works and that would be a start on all the shite I need to start reloading. I've got a bucket of .300 BLK brass waiting on me to get my ass in gear on that, but would much rather go shooting than ride a bench stool and pretend I'm playing the slots! [:D]

[alamo5000]

Wow! That's got me wondering how the Ti baffles in my Alpha will fare. I've yet to clean it, however I haven't put many rounds through it since getting it; maybe 480 to 500, I need to check my book. Still, I figure Ti will end-up somewhere in between SS and Al on the pain-in-the-ass scale. Griffin recommends using a 1.5" steel pipe brush for cleaning the tube. It's 17-4 SS which according to them is tough stuff as far as tubes go. I figure a brush on a drill should have it decently clean in no time (I hope). I was considering an ultrasound cleaner to get the crap buildup off the baffles, but not sure that's a stout enough measure. I was really entertaining that thought on the hope someone would chime in that it works and that would be a start on all the shite I need to start reloading. I've got a bucket of .300 BLK brass waiting on me to get my ass in gear on that, but would much rather go shooting than ride a bench stool and pretend I'm playing the slots! [:D]

The baffles are the main thing to worry about. See below that I found on Silencer Shop's site. As for the tube a round wire brush is fine. You can even snip the handle of it off and put it in a drill. Zip. Clean. I am pretty sure that can is shielded (the baffles cover the whole inside of the tube) so it should only require minimal work.

One thing to make sure of is to NOT damage the threads on your can when you do any of this.



Aluminum: Do NOT use ultrasonic cleaners, harsh solvents, or steel brushes/picks. To avoid permanent damage, only use safe chemicals and brass or plastic utensils.
Stainless steel: Use essentially anything… It’s not rocket science concerning this material, but tread lightly when using certain chemicals (e.g., paint thinners, hydrogen peroxide, “the dip”) due to the reaction created between the metal and the solvent. You don’t want your Q El Camino to be unpretty.
Titanium: See stainless steel. Moreover, brass tumblers seem to work well cleaning both titanium and stainless steel models (e.g., Sig Sauer SRD 45, AAC Ti-Rant 9M).


https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/how-to-clean-my-silencer

[schambers]

The plastic stock that comes with the FV-SR works ok, but I wanted something heavier for bench shooting with a higher cheek rest. Really not a lot to chose from. Selected a Boyd's "Tacticool" stock. I think they have since changed the flaky name to something a bit more respectable haha. Anyway, the barrel channel is more than adequate for the heavy-profile FV-SR barrel. No touching. The bottom metal was really weak so I purchased a D.I.P. bottom metal and trigger guard kit. Bottom metal is much thicker and allows for more precise torque on the action screws. Still, the cheek height wasn't high enough so I picked up a Midway cheek riser. Ah... just right.


Have you considered bedding the action? Curious to know if it would make any significant impact on accuracy

[alamo5000]

Have you considered bedding the action? Curious to know if it would make any significant impact on accuracy

Bedding on a .22? I'm not an expert but I think it would only matter maybe for some crazy bench rest stuff.

I could be wrong but who knows.

[schambers]

Its more common when people are using composite wood stocks.

I've also known people to bed 22lr actions as a way of practice before doing a larger action or when doing trainer builds. Most 22 stocks don't have a chassis system and when spending hundreds on a precision build, why not spend an extra $30 on some martex and get a more accurate mating surface?


Bedding on a .22? I'm not an expert but I think it would only matter maybe for some crazy bench rest stuff.

I could be wrong but who knows.

[alamo5000]

I just did some simple tests out in the yard. With .22LR at 100 yards I was able to score regular hits on target. In fact I was able to get pretty good results, although with various ammo my POI would change.

On the 200 yard target I was also able to score hits on target. It was much more complicated. Some of the bullets were destabilizing at that range. Keep in mind I was shooting a mix of some subsonic and also some supersonics and a variety of ammo just to test it out. I was just doing plain old kentucky windage and it was just trial and error. If I go out and get some real data and try to dial up a firing solution that might help. Just eyeballing it high and to the left was just kind of all over the place. I am going to have to break out my math and see if I can land them on target reliably.

[alamo5000]

I did some more tests with the .22 just now. I used the same ammo throughout the test, but this ammo groups ok at 50 yards but not the best (a little over an inch @50 yards). Other ammo (Federal Ultra Match) gave me .25 inches at 50 yards.

I didn't dial it in exactly, but in inches the approximate holdover for .22LR at 200 yards is around 40 to 50 inches plus or minus depending on the ammo and velocity. Pretty much that is about a 22 MOA elevation adjustment for a 200 yard shot using ammo that gets 1200 fps. Other ammo (say Federal Ultra Match) is subsonic and it shoots REALLY GOOD groups it would be around 26 MOA adjustment. None of this includes wind.

I was able to get about a dozen shots on target out of about 20 rounds. Some hits were dead on round and others were keyholes. With different ammo naturally you will get different results. I think with perfect conditions, some practice, and really good ammo it might be possible to get say 6 inch groups or better at that distance.

Whether or not that is at all practical is a whole different story. Next time I go out I will try to dial it up instead of just a holdover and see what I can get done.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Alamo and Phil, have you studied lead buildup in your cans to see if it's really a thing with .22 ammo? Would be curious to see how much of a thing that really is. You guys have me interested in an optimus micro and some kind of 10/22; perhaps a backpacker combo.

Been using a YHM Wraith for close to 10 years. It's a sealed can with aluminum baffles. Yes, lead does build up. At about 25,000 rounds (used it on an M&P 15-22 for a long time) it was close to double the weight but still suppressing well. I sent it back to Yankee Hill for service. They cleaned it up and replaced the baffle free of charge. Since then, I dedicated it to my FV-SR (bolt action) so I doubt I'll send it in for service again. While I would not recommend a non-serviceable can, at the same time I can say that I've thoroughly enjoyed not having to clean the Wraith, ever. Nice.

My Silencerco Sparrow is serviceable. It's used for suppressing pistols and autoloading rifles. I clean it every 500-1000rds. The steel monocore baffle remains remarkable clean. Just a little buildup on the first inch of the baffle which is getting the worst of the muzzle blast, but the rest remains clean. The steel clamshells get pretty crusty but are quite easy to clean.

90% of the time I'm using CCI Standard Velocity.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Have you considered bedding the action? Curious to know if it would make any significant impact on accuracy

I haven't. A few guys on RFC have bedded the action on Savage rifles and have posted well illustrated How-To tutorials. That said, the pictures of their groups are on par with my rifle when I use Wolf Match Target. So... whatever. If I was using the FV-SR more for precision paper punching I might bed the action, but I like to bounce shotgun hulls around at our Plinking range (out to 100yds) and ding steel plate at our 300yd range which my FV-SR with a Boyd's stock is adequate.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I just did some simple tests out in the yard. With .22LR at 100 yards I was able to score regular hits on target. In fact I was able to get pretty good results, although with various ammo my POI would change.

On the 200 yard target I was also able to score hits on target. It was much more complicated. Some of the bullets were destabilizing at that range. Keep in mind I was shooting a mix of some subsonic and also some supersonics and a variety of ammo just to test it out. I was just doing plain old kentucky windage and it was just trial and error. If I go out and get some real data and try to dial up a firing solution that might help. Just eyeballing it high and to the left was just kind of all over the place. I am going to have to break out my math and see if I can land them on target reliably.

I use my chronograph and an online ballistics calculator for the specific ammo. It's eerie how spot-on the calculations are for bullet drop at any distance. If you know the avg muzzle velocity for the ammo in your rifle, sight above bore and your zero... there's no guessing other than dialing in wind. I use CCI Standard Velocity and haven't had any issues with bullet destabilizing out to 300yds, at least not the few times I've shot at paper. Stabilization issues with HV ammo going from supersonic to subsonic??

I love hearing the delayed ding on steel at 300yds. [:D]

Ballistics calculator (see Advanced Options) http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

[UWone77]

Went with Volquartsen

5373

[alamo5000]

Went with Volquartsen

5373

Nice. You might want to look at the cheek riser(s) too. After shooting mine for a while I am testing between the medium and high one to see which I like best.

Is that the Gemtech barrel on that btw?

[SINNER]

Pretty sure I have a FDE medium height riser if you want it. I wound up using the high riser on mine.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

You're gonna have fun with that. Nice.

I got the Hunter with .5in and .75in risers. Both were too high for me. When Magpul later came out with the "no-rise" I got that one.

Somehow I ended up with two .5in risers, black & FDE, and one black .75in.
I'll never use them. I'd be glad to send them to you if you'd like.

I like the black cheek piece on FDE.

https://i.imgur.com/B4uVH6u.jpg?1

[alamo5000]

If you want to try black cheek pieces I might have one or two you can try out. I think it comes with no rise, and has a low, medium, and high option. I will have to see which ones I have. The stupid thing is the sets only come in 2 packs. Instead of being able to buy all three, you just have to try your luck. If you want to measure first it could help out a little.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

haha... Magpul's next product should be parts storage containers.

[UWone77]

5425

[alamo5000]

5425

Nice. How does she shoot?

Is that the one using your Gemtech barrel?