10/22 Barrels---Help me pick

[alamo5000]

I have a bunch of various parts laying around for a 10/22 build. I am building a 100% Kidd Custom rifle. As of right now I have every single part and component of the build except for one: The barrel.

I am predisposed to one or two listed but if you can please take a look and tell me what you would pick and why. The only rules are it has to come from that web page. It definitely must be a threaded barrel because I will run a can on. It might not be 100% of the time, but I definitely will run a can on it.

http://www.coolguyguns.com/

I am curious to hear what your various opinions are and 'WWYD' (what would you do).

---

I would have had this thing built a long time ago but I ran into various snags. The first was some of the parts I wanted were out of stock and there was no back order date anywhere. Ultimately it took them 6-9 months to get what I wanted back in stock. Also I have spent probably another 6-9 months going to 3 or 4 countries. Since January (until rather recently) I have been on a pretty travel intensive schedule.

---

I am not a big 10/22 person but after reading online and seeing many of these parts in person and doing a comparison I decided to go with Kidd a long time ago (then the stuff started going out of stock and I got preoccupied with other stuff etc).

I might show the parts piece by piece and explain in my opinion what the major differences are between them and a regular 10/22 (as I see it) but so far I have been nothing but impressed.

[UWone77]

I can't recall... is there a build thread on this?

I'm starting to gather parts for my 10/22. Watching...

[alamo5000]

I can't recall... is there a build thread on this?

I'm starting to gather parts for my 10/22. Watching...

I might have had one from a long time ago but I can't remember. Probably so. I am the thread starter king LOL! I know I did a previous thread about my 'franken gun' which is the only thing I recall. That one was put together using a bunch of donated parts. That might be what you remember. Hell, I don't even know.

I guess we can designate this one the official 'build thread' because it's specific to the new Kidd build.

I will go over the parts bit by bit later on and you can see what makes a difference between Kidd and other people.

[alamo5000]

I'm starting to gather parts for my 10/22. Watching...

Here is something to get you started. Check out this article. Very interesting.

https://rifleshooter.com/2015/11/ruger-1022-accuracy-upgrade/

By slightly altering the chamber of the barrel look at the remarkable improvement on accuracy.

Kidd barrels have all been 'trued up' like this to the right specs.

Their bolt faces also have been trued up too... They have a 1/2 inch at 50 yards guarantee on all their barrels except one.

[alamo5000]

Since everything on my gun will be Kidd (except the stock, optics and scope rings) I will go through the highlights of what I have discovered.

First, Ruger's quality control sucks. I got my little pincher measurement tool and I measured the dimensions inside of my donated Ruger receiver. It was NOT concentric (if that's the right word). It was thicker on one side and thinner on the other and fatter towards the back and thinner towards the front. I imagine if you shot a billion rounds through it eventually it would 'settle in' but mine was so effed up that I took a small sanding block and polished the inside of the receiver out. Certain spots I wasn't able to get to, but even now I can sometimes pull my bolt back and it will hang in place.

With Kidd, the interior and exterior dimensions of the receivers do NOT have this kind of problem. I think part of it is Ruger used sub par materials as well as bad QC. But with Kidd, the inside of the receiver is truly 'trued up'. The bolt is also trued up on the face and to the exacting specs so that there is 'zero' grit in the action. With a Kidd receiver and bolt together the tolerances are all spot on.

--

The charging handle is also different. On my donated gun Ruger's charging and recoil spring is 'captured'. You can't take it off even if you want to. With Kidd you can not only take it apart, you get 3 various springs that come with the package. One spring is a standard power, one spring is extra power, and one spring is designed specifically for suppressed shooting. All comes with the package.

Also the guide rod... on my Ruger guide rod that thing, I had to compress the spring and try and polish it as best I could. This has also been another hang point for what I have from them. The guide rod, screwed up receiver dimensions, and who knows about the bolt...but the tolerance stacking is something horrible. I made my franken gun to where it will run ok, but it ain't got nothing on a Kidd.

---

The trigger... OMFG. I went to a gun show and there was a 10/22 guy there and he had a display with a ton of triggers. Fortunately I got to try out a lot of them... everything from a stock Ruger to a Kidd and everything in between. As soon as a pulled that Kidd trigger I told the guy, 'we can stop now'. That thing is NICE. Way better than even Volquartsen in my book. Given I didn't do any scientific test, but that thing has the WOW factor.

It's adjustable too.

---

Then see the barrels and what I previously posted... the chambers and all that are where they need to be at to be right.

Another thing I didn't previously mention is that Kidd makes sure their barrel extensions are perfectly concentric to the hole on the slip fit of the receiver. The shoulders of the barrel when installed correctly, plus the precision machining all mean they mate up perfectly. This helps prevent barrel droop and stress points that will eventually wear down over time. People put special V-blocks in their guns (I did one in my franken gun) that actually presses on the barrel and keeps it level. With Kidd, no need for that. It's all machined to mate as perfectly as possible. Everything from the barrel hole on the receiver to the face of the barrel extensions on numerous surfaces all have super tight tolerances.

Anyway I think you get the idea...they are top notch.

[Stone]

https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/collections/10-22-20-cal

[alamo5000]

https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/collections/10-22-20-cal

That's interesting. A barrel that swages your bullet down to a new caliber. I will definitely keep that in mind.

[UWone77]

https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/collections/10-22-20-cal

If I didn't already have a Gemtec MIST, that's the barrel I was going with.

[alamo5000]

If I didn't already have a Gemtec MIST, that's the barrel I was going with.

Why? What's your thinking on it?

[BoilerUp]

I'll be going with the Ultra Light myself ( http://www.coolguyguns.com/KIDD-22LR-Ultra-Lightweight-Fluted-Rifle-Bull-Barrel_p_138.html ). The reports on accuracy suggests it'll more than meet my needs and keep it light enough for a field gun. If I was purely going for a bench gun, then I'd probably go with a 16.5 or 18" fluted bull barrel http://www.coolguyguns.com/KIDD-22LR-Black-Fluted-Bull-Barrel_p_162.html

[Jerry R]

If you want to run a suppressor ...

https://www.tacticalsol.com/x-ring-series/x-ring-sb-x-barrel

I have one of these in their Ruger 22 Takedown version. Very accurate.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4492&d=1509822479

[fledge]

Jerry, good to hear the tacsol barrels are accurate. I’ve heard mixed reports.

[Jerry R]

I also have one of their 22/45 Ruger barrels ... just as accurate. I know two barrels would not be a definitive sample, but I get lucky every now and then [BD]

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4494&d=1509835930

[alamo5000]

I also have one of their 22/45 Ruger barrels ... just as accurate. I know two barrels would not be a definitive sample, but I get lucky every now and then [BD]

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4494&d=1509835930

I am on a .22LR kick lately. I am curious as to my options for a .22 pistol. It will be primarily for suppressed shooting.

[alamo5000]

OK guys, I decided on a barrel.

http://www.coolguyguns.com/KIDD-22LR-Lightweight-Fluted-Aluminum-Sleeved-Rifle-Bull-Barrel_p_150.html

It's the Kidd Lightweight Fluted barrel. Threaded with a muzzle brake.

4502

4503

4504

4505

[alamo5000]

The barrel has a 1/2 inch guarantee on it.

The only real thing I have been concerned with is the weight and balance.

On my zombie gun the barrel is 3 pounds. It's HEAVY AF!!!

This new barrel though will shave off a lot of weight. I will go from 48oz barrel to a 30oz barrel. An 18oz weight savings I hope is good enough.

I was torn between the Ultra light weight and the light weight.

The ultra light weight is 20oz. The one I got is 30oz.

From what I read online if the barrel is TOO light it can cause accuracy issues. Admittedly it would be better handling but the one I got was sort of in the middle. Not really a bench barrel but still lighter than what I have.

[alamo5000]

https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/collections/10-22-20-cal

I am extremely interested in the barrel that Stone posted. I couldn't find ANY reviews or other information online about it.

It's possible that I could buy one for future use, but for right now that's a total unknown. I couldn't even find a Youtube video on it.

[Stone]

Call V7 and ask for Joel, good dude. He will tell you all about it.

[alamo5000]

Call V7 and ask for Joel, good dude. He will tell you all about it.

I will try to give him a call tomorrow but my thinking is if they want to sell barrels they need a bit more info that is easily accessible. The 10/22 market is pretty damn big. At least give a barrel to one or two people and let them make a video or something.

[UWone77]

Why? What's your thinking on it?

V Seven is known for their quality barrels and accuracy.


I will try to give him a call tomorrow but my thinking is if they want to sell barrels they need a bit more info that is easily accessible. The 10/22 market is pretty damn big. At least give a barrel to one or two people and let them make a video or something.

I bet Joel would guarantee his barrel. If you're not happy with your results, he'll take it back. Those long timers at Noveske know a thing or two about barrels.

On a side note, I thought about building a 10/22 from scratch around my GemTech MIST. I then realized that an action is going to cost $350-400, Trigger, at least $100+

That's $600 not including the MIST I already have and a Magpul Chassis for a 10/22. Not that I obviously haven't over built an AR before with expensive parts. I think this time however, for a 10/22 I'm just going to buy a standard $250 10/22 and a Magpul Chassis and call it a day.

[alamo5000]

V Seven is known for their quality barrels and accuracy.



I bet Joel would guarantee his barrel. If you're not happy with your results, he'll take it back. Those long timers at Noveske know a thing or two about barrels.

On a side note, I thought about building a 10/22 from scratch around my GemTech MIST. I then realized that an action is going to cost $350-400, Trigger, at least $100+

That's $600 not including the MIST I already have and a Magpul Chassis for a 10/22. Not that I obviously haven't over built an AR before with expensive parts. I think this time however, for a 10/22 I'm just going to buy a standard $250 10/22 and a Magpul Chassis and call it a day.

I will have a standard 10/22 trigger if you want it. Reasonable price :) Same with some of the other sundry parts (like the bolt) etc.

Once I get my new gun put together I will not need those other parts anymore.

[alamo5000]

Call V7 and ask for Joel, good dude. He will tell you all about it.

I actually did call them today and I do have to say that Joel was probably one of the most knowledgeable and pleasant people I have ran across in a really long time. I seriously wouldn't mind hanging out or working with somebody like him. He was just an extremely pleasant person. I encouraged him to register here and post here on WEVO.

He talked to me for quite some time about that 10/22 barrel. It's a very interesting concept. He was very forth coming about the barrel and business and many other things. I probably could have talked to him for 2 hours. Just a great guy and extremely knowledgeable.

[alamo5000]

Update:

After a forever long wait and procrastination today is the day. I finally got all my parts in and I put together my new rifle. (Sorry, no pics yet but I will try to get some up soon).

--

I shot 40 rounds through it before it got dark, but MAN! that thing is just awesome. I will do a much more comprehensive write up with pics later on probably. I am going out of town in the morning so it might have to be on hold but at least the gun is together. I will also test a lot more ammo. With bulk packed cheap federal ammo on a steel plate it was really good.

--

I was initially concerned with the barrel weight. On my franken gun that I had previous to this the barrel was a 3 pound bull barrel. It was way too heavy and the gun was really nose heavy. The barrel I got weights 1lb 14oz and the balance is superb. I can shoulder it with a really natural point. It's just freakin awesome. A pound off the barrel makes a big difference.

The lesson is for anyone building a 10/22 is to keep your barrel under 2 pounds and you will be good. This new gun even with a full size configuration Revolution 9 on the end (11.2 oz) it still isn't too bad at all. In the K configuration it's only 9.7oz but that's including the booster assembly. If you configure it for .22 in the K configuration it's even less than that (no booster, just an aluminum end cap). My best guess would be around 8.5 oz thereabout. (BTW that's the standard weight of the optimus micro)

I would say in the K configuration (or any other can that is between 8 and 9 oz or less) you wouldn't even notice it on the end of the rifle with a sub 2 pound barrel.

If you keep the barrel and suppressor combo on a rifle around 38 oz total you are in the sweet spot. (This is for a 16 inch barrel) Anything over that and you will start to notice it a little.

The Gemtech Mist for example is 1lb 5oz (21 oz) total so that would be like nothing out there. Kidd's ultra light barrel is 1lb 4oz (20oz) so that is definitely good to go as well for having a gun that you can handle from the shoulder no problems.

--

In the end I am pretty pleased with the choice I made. From what I read if your barrel is TOO light it can lead to accuracy issues. Also the way that those traditional ultra light barrels are constructed is not as rugged. I have one that's kind of in the middle. I can realistically do bipod or 'bench' shooting but also still have something that I can shoulder without a problem.

Also on a side note that barrel from VSeven in the fluted version is 1lb 7oz. That barrel as it sits (and making them out of that material) has some insane potential. I think if the VSeven people play their cards right they can break into the 10/22 world and make a lot of waves.

--

On my gun I have to say this... that trigger is F***** AWESOME!!! OMG! It's just a thing of beauty. It's probably one of the best triggers I have ever used for almost anything.

[alamo5000]

V Seven is known for their quality barrels and accuracy.

I bet Joel would guarantee his barrel. If you're not happy with your results, he'll take it back.

I was fortunate to talk to Joel the other day for a good half an hour. I was really impressed by him. He knows his stuff be he's also a genuinely great person. I could tell he's just a class act.

He talked to me quite a bit about the accuracy of the barrel they have. He said more or less it depends on ammo but they were getting some quarter inch groups at 50 yards with certain ammo. He also said with that specific barrel they have proven that it has a lot better accuracy at longer ranges. There is a lot better ballistic coefficient and a lot better performance. Better groups, better penetration, better all around at ranges beyond 50 yards.

According to him not that the gun would be ammo picky, but with certain types of ammo you get stellar results at 50 yards and beyond.

[Stone]

Yeah, he knows his shit. I emailed them about an issue I had with their port door and he personally called me about it. After about 45 minutes on the phone we had talked about everything from port doors to politics.

[alamo5000]

More details:

Since I highly likely to get the Optimus Micro for a dedicated .22 can here is some more info.

The Micro in the 3 lug set up weighs 10 oz. I don't know how much the 3 lug itself weighs but based on my math doing a 3 lug set up at least on a rifle would be of negligible weight difference. That in my opinion (depending on the barrel weight) a non issue. With my current gun weights you MIGHT feel it out there but I think it would be so small you wouldn't even notice.

On a pistol on the other hand a 10 oz 3 lug suppressor I have a suspicion that it would make the pistol a bit nose heavy. I haven't handled many .22LR pistols but from my recollection many are pretty light. 10 oz plus a 3 lug on a really light pistol could be noticeable.

Just as a point of reference, that Optimus Micro with the 3 lug weighs almost as much as my full size Revolution 9 and the Micro is 2" shorter. I think 3 lug on a rifle would be fine. On a pistol is TBD depending on the pistol.

That Micro sounds like its pretty beefy. That said in it's standard out of the box configuration it's about the same weight as my Revolution 9 in the K configuration and set up for .22LR (IE no booster). I don't think in that configuration it would be too bad, but how that would balance on a pistol I don't know.

[alamo5000]

Yeah, he knows his shit. I emailed them about an issue I had with their port door and he personally called me about it. After about 45 minutes on the phone we had talked about everything from port doors to politics.

Seriously, thank you for that recommendation. He's the kind of guy you can talk to on the phone and he comes across like he's your best friend. Really a genuine guy. If I was anywhere near there I wouldn't mind meeting him (and a few other people too)... but yes, he really impressed me.

[alamo5000]

Been out testing ammo to see what my gun likes. This was the best group of the day. 5 shots @ 50 yards. I guess that's pretty good for a 10/22.

I still have more ammo to test. I might be able to best that.

4889

[alamo5000]

Been out testing ammo to see what my gun likes. This was the best group of the day. 5 shots @ 50 yards. I guess that's pretty good for a 10/22.

I still have more ammo to test. I might be able to best that.

4889

I used a program on my computer to zoom in and put a grid on the picture. Measuring outer edge to outer edge, then subtracting the bullet diameter I wound up with a .25 inch center to center group at 50 yards with a 10/22 using that ammo.

I had several groups today that matched or at least rivaled that. I still have a few more ammo types and brands that I want to try but so far that's pretty good.

[cjd3]

Been out testing ammo to see what my gun likes. This was the best group of the day. 5 shots @ 50 yards. I guess that's pretty good for a 10/22.

I still have more ammo to test. I might be able to best that.

4889

That’s better than my Savage MK II

[alamo5000]

That’s better than my Savage MK II

The only downside to this is the ammo that gets this done isn't cheap. [bash]

Once I do some more testing with various rounds I might bite the bullet and buy a bunch in bulk.

I will probably run a few different kinds of ammo... probably some subsonic stuff for suppressed shooting, this stuff, and general all around bulk box ammo.

If I buy a big bundle of the 'good stuff' it will last me a while. I don't go out shooting groups like this all the time. It's fun when I am in the mood for it though.