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View Full Version : Diving into NFA w/ a 2-stamper



Aragorn
8 December 2017, 15:49
So here I go, entering the world of NFA by building a two stamper. A suppressed SBR. I've got some semblance of a parts list, and a crap ton of questions. Intended uses for the rifle are as follows.

- 1. Range use. Competitive style shooting, 300y and in.
- 1. Home Defense.
- 3. Defense of liberty. Zombie Apocalypse. Monty Python rabbits. What-tf-ever.

The goal is light and small, enough to be easily manageable in an apartment (or hopefully soon, a house), while being suppressed for... all the reasons. I'll start off with what I've got and where I'm planning to go with it. Right now all I have are the receivers and forend.

4653

4654

Erathr3 10 3/8" forend, SMOS upper that BC hooked me up with, and an Aero M4E1 lower. They go together pretty damn sweetly if I do say so myself. The plan is to run it suppressed 100% of the time. The suppressor will be the Delta P Brevis II Ultra 5.56 suppressor, which weighs in at 7.5 oz. and is 3.7" long, is direct thread, and full-auto rated.

The barrel will likely be either the 11.3" Hanson Profiled Ballistic Advantage barrel, or the 11.5" V7. If I get the V7, my intention is to have them port it for 100% suppressed, get a matched bolt for it and throw it in either an Aero carrier, or one of the up and coming carriers from Forward Controls. If I get the Ballistic Advantage, I'll build up a Gemtech BCG. I'm on the fence here as to which way to go. I believe the V7 combo would be more accurate, but insignificantly more from a practical standpoint. The BA barrel being SLIGHTLY shorter will allow the suppressor to be closer to flush with the forend, so that would look better, but again, it's just another minor difference. Anyone care to weigh in?

Also... I have no idea what I'm doing as to how to actually BEGIN the NFA process. I have the lower... now what? I've seen words thrown around like "Individual" and "Trust", but I have no idea what to do with those words. I DO know what a trust is, do I need to set one up? How? Do I need to get the lower engraved? Would doing it as an individual be better? I need my wife to have full access, with my job I'm gone a LOT. Be it dealing with an intruder or rescuing it from a fire, she needs to legally be able to access the weapon. Also, just to complicate matters further, I'm hoping to move across state lines hopefully first quarter next year (if all goes smoothly). Will (or how) would that affect the process? I think some of these questions may have been somewhat addressed in another thread but I couldn't seem to find which one. Either way, for me at least, having that info all here will be beneficial.

No big rush on the building part since I'll be waiting on stamps, or at least the one for the lower. May or may not build it up into a pistol while I wait. I don't have a surplus pistol tube so I'm loathe to spend money one something I won't be using in the end.

alamo5000
8 December 2017, 18:37
For a good fit allow for .8 or .75 inches between the barrel length and the hand guard length. For example a 10.5 inch barrel works beautifully with a 9.7 inch hand guard. If that matters to you the 11.3 inch barrel will look good and will probably perform as good as it needs to for this kind of gun. I have a ballistic advantage barrel and I like it. I have never tried to shoot groups with it but it works great.

For those BCGs and all that screwing around with ports and stuff, I would just wait. A lot of the time something as simple as a heavier buffer and/or spring will fix any gas related problems and you won't have to jack around with all that other BS.

If you want to make the gun up and running first that's fine, just make it a 'pistol' while you wait. That way you can work out any tuning bugs.

As for the process to do the tax stamps you have some options.

You can either do it as an Individual, which would mean you are the only one that could be in possession of those items.

OR

You can do it as a Trust (which would need to be set up) with you and your wife on there. My dad and me are on my Trust.

As for specifics about Trusts it will depend largely on your state laws surrounding those. It varies widely state by state.

Especially since you are moving from one state to another that would complicate things a little bit. Particularly in regards to the SBR or maybe even the silencer. If you try to move mid stream (say while you are waiting for the can to clear) you will have to go back to the dealer that is holding it to pick up your can.

At the end of the day they have some address change forms that you send in (way in advance) before you can take a registered SBR across state lines. The suppressor you can take anywhere they are legal to own.

And yes, you will need to get your lower engraved with the name of the Trust if you decide to go that route.

UWone77
9 December 2017, 14:24
Right now there really is no need to file NFA items under a trust. You don't need one necessarily. You can just go ahead and file under your own name as an individual. Your form will be approved much faster as well, 4-5 months right now.

BoilerUp
9 December 2017, 16:42
I need my wife to have full access, with my job I'm gone a LOT. Be it dealing with an intruder or rescuing it from a fire, she needs to legally be able to access the weapon.

I'm pretty sure the only way for both/either you and your wife to have full legal possession/access is through a trust. I highly recommend you contact NW Gun Law Group (https://nwgunlawgroup.com/ ) who will most likely refer you to someone in their network who is in your state and knows your state's laws. The Silver Trust costs several hundred dollars but you get legal counsel instead of just a form document. You may be fine with the Bronze Trust which is less expensive.

I echo alamo's suggestion that you build it up as a pistol first. That will let you makes sure you are happy with it before you spend the $ on the tax stamp and engraving. Also, when a weapon starts life as a pistol, you can convert it to a rifle and back to a pistol.

Former11B
11 December 2017, 06:51
The Brevis II cans intrigue me but they are literally double the price I’d want to pay.

Aragorn
11 December 2017, 09:29
So let me make sure I'm tracking...

Contact NW Gun Law Group, and basically just ask them about about filing as an individual and adding the wife later, or whether or not I should just straight up do a trust. I like faster, but I'm willing to wait if I must.


And yeah, the Brevis is expensive, but mentally I had a hard time justifying buying/building/jumping through the hoops to build an SBR, then jump through said hoops again and pay for more stamps only to have a gun that would be longer/heavier/more nose heavy than my 16" guns... all for the sake of being quieter. I mean, quieter is great, but if I'm gonna do it then I want the whole enchilada. I want it shorter and lighter and quieter. I did the math, if I use the BA barrel then with the suppressor attached I'll have a barrel length of 14.7" and a weight of 27.5 oz (with gas block). That's lighter than the barrel on my favorite 16" gun.

UWone77
11 December 2017, 09:40
If you're getting a trust just based on estate planning purposes, that's fine, but not required.

The one benefit of 41F is since you don't need a CLEO sign off you can easily just apply as an individual.

Aragorn
11 December 2017, 10:44
If you're getting a trust just based on estate planning purposes, that's fine, but not required.

The one benefit of 41F is since you don't need a CLEO sign off you can easily just apply as an individual.

Is 41F a document I need to print out online or pick up somewhere? Or is it optionally provided when I purchase the suppressor? Also, will it cover doing the SBR?

UWone77
11 December 2017, 11:02
Is 41F a document I need to print out online or pick up somewhere? Or is it optionally provided when I purchase the suppressor? Also, will it cover doing the SBR?

No 41F is an ATF ruling that removed CLEO sign off for NFA iems, added responsible persons for trusts, required photos and fingerprint cards, ect.

If you want to file as an individual, you literally need nothing except a passport photos, 2 fingerprint cards, cash for whatever SBR/Suppressor you're buying.

Stone
11 December 2017, 12:06
If you do a trust you can add your wife on later after the rifle is built. Its simple to do.

Trust Amendment and Notification.

Fellow Trustees,

Pursuant to the powers I reserved for myself in Paragraph 2 of [name of trust], I hereby amend the trust as follows:


[Describe changes.]

[Examples include: I hereby add John Doe as a Trustee; or I hereby remove Jane Doe as Beneficiary]


Please keep this written instrument with your copy of the Trust.


_________________________
Signed by Grantor

_________________________
Date

Aragorn
11 December 2017, 12:22
No 41F is an ATF ruling that removed CLEO sign off for NFA iems, added responsible persons for trusts, required photos and fingerprint cards, ect.

If you want to file as an individual, you literally need nothing except a passport photos, 2 fingerprint cards, cash for whatever SBR/Suppressor you're buying.

If I did this would the wife be able to access the weapon?

Former11B
11 December 2017, 12:32
Have you seen videos of the Brevis? Does it throw sparks like titanium cans tend to?

Aragorn
11 December 2017, 12:44
Have you seen videos of the Brevis? Does it throw sparks like titanium cans tend to?

The only sparks or flash I've seen in videos are when the suppressor is brand new.

Delta P says that goes away once you've used it. At least that's what I've read.

gatordev
11 December 2017, 14:13
If I did this would the wife be able to access the weapon?

Legally, no. But that's what Stone is getting at. Do a trust (with added expense, of course), file for a Form X, get approved, then add your wife in an amendment to the trust. Boom...legal and estate planned.

Aragorn
11 December 2017, 14:18
Legally, no. But that's what Stone is getting at. Do a trust (with added expense, of course), file for a Form X, get approved, then add your wife in an amendment to the trust. Boom...legal and estate planned.

Awesome. Thanks.

UWone77
11 December 2017, 15:37
If I did this would the wife be able to access the weapon?

Heh... I forget some people's wives actually like shooting.

fledge
11 December 2017, 20:33
The Trust route also keeps you from the paranoia of keeping everything under lock and key in the house. A suppressor left out on your bench in your man cave isnít an issue then.

Aragorn, if I were in your shoes, Iíd look at SilencerShop one-shot-trust. Even if you donít get your can there, you can form 1 your lower there. Once in their system you donít have to redo your fingerprints in the future. And they make sure everything is done right. And you can ask them how to add your wife later, etc. Plus, when you want to do another, you can make another one-shot-trust and add her later to that one. Each trust can be named after the item in it, keeping the paperwork more straightforward. As it is, if you make a new trust, add two items, and then add your wife later, you canít use that trust again unless you want her to go through the process with you the next time around. Then again you can delete her the next time around, go through the process again, keep her away from your stuff, get approved again, Re-add her, and then everything is back to normal.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more.

So, yeah, one shot trust is what I would do unless you have some funky estate plan like I do.

Stone
11 December 2017, 21:26
Heh... I forget some people's wives actually like shooting.

All those weapons and she doesn't shoot? I feel for ya.