CNF (Castle Nut, Forward Controls Design)

[Duffy]

CNF (Castle Nut, Forward Controls Design) will be our first new product for 2018. Based mostly on TDP specs, we made some changes to make it more user friendly to install (one time use feature), but more important is the way we modified the staking notches from TDP specs.

Once installed and properly staked in two places (per TM 9-1005-319-23&P), CNF will be harder to loosen without the user's deliberate effort to remove it.

CNF is rather plain in aesthetics, in keeping with our down to earth, non-fashion design policy.

Estimated availability is late January of 2018, we will begin testing prototypes tomorrow.

Sorry, can't post pics, you guys understand [BD] CMT again will be making these for us. One thing I learned about Jeff is he delivers on time, if not ahead of schedule, so we may see CNF earlier than we estimate, then we can post pics soon.

[GOST]

Look forward to seeing this Fancy castle nut.

[Duffy]

Why you... lol

[UWone77]

Any estimates on price range?

[Duffy]

Around $10, MAP will be less. CNC billet machined construction, 4140 PH steel, and black nitride coated.

I know what some folks will say, but we can't bring the price down further, we're not making 50,000 of them at a time [bash]

[Joelski]

You don't by chance work at the White House, do ya?

[:D]

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

I like Trump, but I wouldn't want him to be my boss :P

[Stone]

Most guys here don't mind paying a little extra for a quality part. With the way you are adding parts it wont be to long that you can offer a builders kit. Along the lines of a LPK. One stop shop...

[Duffy]

We could offer one in the future when the list is fleshed out. It would be expensive though, and we don't have a non-ambi mag catch, and don't plan on making one, since there's nothing wrong wit the factory non-ambi mag catch, there's no point in making one that just looks different but offers zero utility.

I'd also forego offering triggers. Too many options, and folks don't come to us for triggers, we're constantly trying to sell the Geissele triggers we ordered 2 years ago lol.

[UWone77]

We could offer one in the future when the list is fleshed out. It would be expensive though, and we don't have a non-ambi mag catch, and don't plan on making one, since there's nothing wrong wit the factory non-ambi mag catch, there's no point in making one that just looks different but offers zero utility.

I'd also forego offering triggers. Too many options, and folks don't come to us for triggers, we're constantly trying to sell the Geissele triggers we ordered 2 years ago lol.

I'm in for castle nuts!

I'm sure it doesn't help that Geissele cuts their dealers off at the knees during sales. Can't survive on 0-10% margins. [:D]

[Duffy]

Haha I'm glad you said it. This is a common occurrence with them.

[Stone]

We could offer one in the future when the list is fleshed out. It would be expensive though, and we don't have a non-ambi mag catch, and don't plan on making one, since there's nothing wrong wit the factory non-ambi mag catch, there's no point in making one that just looks different but offers zero utility.

I'd also forego offering triggers. Too many options, and folks don't come to us for triggers, we're constantly trying to sell the Geissele triggers we ordered 2 years ago lol.

Exactly. I would add grips and safety selectors to that list as well. Those are the three parts that nobody ever will agree on. I am a huge fan of the Talon and have a pile of selectors in the parts bin for example.

[UWone77]

Haha I'm glad you said it. This is a common occurrence with them.

I am constantly amazed people do this. Granted I don't own a business and don't rely on cash flow from inventory. But as John Hwang has always told me, once you devalue your product like that, you condition people to wait for sales and won't buy unless it hits a certain number, so in essence you've permanently devalued your product.

Cutting you dealers at the knees also prevents a lot of re-orders from your dealers and the next thing you know, you don't have any dealers.

But I get it, retail right now is tough, with no relief in sight.

[fledge]

Love the nitride addition. For under $10, that’ll sell. And I’m eager to hear about this easier install/staking...

[Duffy]

Fledge, the one time feature involves serrations on the wrench notches side of the castle nut, and on the circumference. It's a comforting and familiar shape to gun people, so a combination of utility and aesthetics. I want to have serrations there, it's just a choice of what to put there. It does give the CNF a distinctive look, but functionality came first.

Re: staking, we'll give users more position options, and we've made a simple change in the shape of the staking notches as well.

Richard, what John said is true. We ran quite a few sales in 2017, but never anywhere close to the point of undercutting dealers (i.e. giving retail customers better prices than we do our dealers). In 2018, we'll run sales only on federal holidays. No more "here's a sale just because".

I'm not sure if too many notice we don't have a Christmas sale this year after the Thanksgiving sale [BD]

[fledge]

When it comes to retail, I appreciate less sales and more rewards for loyalty. Yeah, give your loyal guys some creative discounts. It doesn’t diminish the value of your profit that way but builds relationships for future sales. Let the insiders keep spreading enthusiasm beyond marketing enthusiasm.

I think Black Friday is stupid from a retail perspective unless you have to dump inventory and make an event of it.

Looking forward to the pics when they come, Roger.

[Duffy]

We email the folks that signed up for our newsletter, but not all customers sign up for it, and you can do that without buying a thing.

We spend a lot of money on swag last year, more expensive swag gets included for repeat customers. I keep finding new and hopefully useful swag, not the typical hat and T shirts, I had so many of them, I donated most when we moved in 2014.

Sling Keep was something I made, then realized how useful it was, it became a swag, then I decided to list it as a regular item, most of our swag isn't listed for sale, but only given to customers and friends.

I'll give the builder's kit more thought. We still need a few more items to flesh out the kit, not all of which I want to outsource, but I don't want the factory fare either :(

Depending on when CNF can be black nitrided, we'll be showing pics a few days prior to its public release. We'll receive the prototypes today, and chances are they'll go into production before 2018.

I don't want to appear to downplay the CNF, but we strive to be as honest to customers as we are to ourselves. CNF is an incremental improvement to the factory unit. It's a ring with inside threads, in keeping with our design philosophy, we keep to the same parts count and keep it simple, and we make it with all the precision and care due a precision instrument. FCD and CMT are capable of it, it's the only way we know how to make things, a binary choice between the best, or nothing.

CNF came about not so much because the TDP spec castle nut is poorly designed, but I've always found it wanting in some aspects. The smooth surface without serrations isn't a big deal for most, but I don't like using the wrench notches for traction while screwing it onto the RE, so we added some useful serrations there.

The serrations are the one time feature we mentioned. After it's been installed, they cease to have any function. It doesn't cost anything to add, no reason to leave them out. The staking notches are slightly modified in number and geometry, also simple changes to make it difficult to remove, once properly staked in 2 places, per Army manual, unless the user wants to loosen it, and even then, it'd require more effort than with a factory castle nut.

We've been asked numerous times to design a new castle nut and end plate with some unidentified feature (just make it better, that kind of unclear directive), we'd steadfastly declined. When we did decide to make one, it is a decidedly old fashioned nut that doesn't differ from TDP specs much, for its mission is to keep the RE securely screwed on the weapon in adverse conditions and hard use, and nothing else. Come to think of it, that is precisely the castle nut's job, it's a fastener. Nobody wants the fastener to come loose, it needs no other functions.

With CNF, we'll make staking great again [:D]

[fledge]

I find your discounts tasteful and minor, Roger. And I like that you give us loyal folks a code. :)

I must admit, making staking great again sounds fancy.

[Stone]

Roger Wang, Making castle nut staking great again, one nut at a time.[:D]

[Duffy]

I'm surprised how many castle nuts are out of spec. Some notches are too small, some larger than TDP specs, some don't even conform to either width, angle and depth.

Sad thing is this isn't an isolated example, we found some billet receivers' FA plunger hole is too thin, and doesn't allow TDP spec FAs, including LDFAs, to be installed.

[aamp84]

I hand pick most of the parts in my builds, even down to detents and springs. I buy your parts not so much for the improvements you make, but because of the quality in materials you use and your standards of quality in design and manufacturing.

[Duffy]

Thank you, I do hope you find them functionally improved as well ;)

[Duffy]

We're 2 to 3 weeks away from release, so we can now post some pics [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/CNF%20proto_zps5rxvnsqn.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/CNF%20proto_zps5rxvnsqn.jpg.html)

We made some last minute changes to the serrations so they're less prominent. If these flutes look familiar, it's because they took their styling from a revolver's cylinder flutes. They seemed to be the first thing folks commented on, and thought of as cosmetic. The widely spaced flutes are coarse serrations, a single use feature while the castle nut is rotated clockwise toward the end plate on the receiver extension.

The new flutes are shorter, the original design's longer length wasn't necessary, and attracted too much attention.

We changed the staking notch angle from 45 to 30 degrees to allow more displaced material to "flow" into the notch, and increased the number of staking notches from 3 to 4. A castle nut is to be staked in two places. At all times, 3 of CNF's staking notches are available for staking. We're not advocating staking the castle nut in more than 2 places, we offer more staking locations/options.

Below is the prototype CNF with original flutes. Latest revision has shorter flutes.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/CNF%20proto2_zpsncbzmwof.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/CNF%20proto2_zpsncbzmwof.jpg.html)

[Big_Tom]

We email the folks that signed up for our newsletter, but not all customers sign up for it, and you can do that without buying a thing.

We spend a lot of money on swag last year, more expensive swag gets included for repeat customers. I keep finding new and hopefully useful swag, not the typical hat and T shirts, I had so many of them, I donated most when we moved in 2014.

Sling Keep was something I made, then realized how useful it was, it became a swag, then I decided to list it as a regular item, most of our swag isn't listed for sale, but only given to customers and friends.

I'll give the builder's kit more thought. We still need a few more items to flesh out the kit, not all of which I want to outsource, but I don't want the factory fare either :(

Depending on when CNF can be black nitrided, we'll be showing pics a few days prior to its public release. We'll receive the prototypes today, and chances are they'll go into production before 2018.

I don't want to appear to downplay the CNF, but we strive to be as honest to customers as we are to ourselves. CNF is an incremental improvement to the factory unit. It's a ring with inside threads, in keeping with our design philosophy, we keep to the same parts count and keep it simple, and we make it with all the precision and care due a precision instrument. FCD and CMT are capable of it, it's the only way we know how to make things, a binary choice between the best, or nothing.

CNF came about not so much because the TDP spec castle nut is poorly designed, but I've always found it wanting in some aspects. The smooth surface without serrations isn't a big deal for most, but I don't like using the wrench notches for traction while screwing it onto the RE, so we added some useful serrations there.

The serrations are the one time feature we mentioned. After it's been installed, they cease to have any function. It doesn't cost anything to add, no reason to leave them out. The staking notches are slightly modified in number and geometry, also simple changes to make it difficult to remove, once properly staked in 2 places, per Army manual, unless the user wants to loosen it, and even then, it'd require more effort than with a factory castle nut.

We've been asked numerous times to design a new castle nut and end plate with some unidentified feature (just make it better, that kind of unclear directive), we'd steadfastly declined. When we did decide to make one, it is a decidedly old fashioned nut that doesn't differ from TDP specs much, for its mission is to keep the RE securely screwed on the weapon in adverse conditions and hard use, and nothing else. Come to think of it, that is precisely the castle nut's job, it's a fastener. Nobody wants the fastener to come loose, it needs no other functions.

With CNF, we'll make staking great again [:D]

As to the swag, I was surprised to get a carpenter's pencil with my order. Which I use them time to time working with my dad. But that one won't see any action just cause I like it.

Which reminds me I've been needing to get a 308 bolt catch from ya.

[Duffy]

I try to find items folks may find useful to include. Most swag I get when I order things from others is a business card, or something I can't use. Carpenter's pencil is kind of cool in that I've never got one as swag, and folks can actually use it :)

CNF has a slight design change to tone down the aesthetics. The flutes / coarse serrations in the original design were kept understated, but they seem to attract too much attention onto themselves, this is not the intent. These flutes serve a function, a single use feature while installing the castle nut, but they're the most noticeable things on CNF, and lead folks to think they're cosmetic.

The flutes are only on the spanner wrench side, not on the staking notch side. Serrations that go end to end just don't look good on a castle nut, especially when installed. ARs have lines and curves we're used to, the flutes on CNF were small to begin with, the production unit's are smaller still, as to maintain the classic looks, and not disrupt them.

This is the prototype with the original design, still in the white. A black nitrided CNF will stand out much less.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3091_zps0wcad338.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3091_zps0wcad338.jpg.html)

The 0.04 shorter flutes do the job just as well, and give the illusion of being smaller in width at the same time.

Original design on left, production unit on right:
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/cnfmod_zpsherztaqc.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/cnfmod_zpsherztaqc.jpg.html)

[DekNgo]

I try to find items folks may find useful to include. Most swag I get when I order things from others is a business card, or something I can't use. Carpenter's pencil is kind of cool in that I've never got one as swag, and folks can actually use it :)

This is the prototype with the original design, still in the white. A black nitrided CNF will stand out much less.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3091_zps0wcad338.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3091_zps0wcad338.jpg.html)


I'm guessing this picture is showing POF's ambi QD endplate. I'm not sure if its dimensions are the same as the LWRC ambi QD sling mount, but aesthetically it looks strange with the CNF not being flush with the endplate.

Here's a picture of the LWRC ambi QD sling mount with a standard castle nut on one of my rifles. You can see that the castle nut is flush with the endplate. Does the CNF have the same dimensions as a regular castle nut? If not, maybe that can be a future enhancement for CNF 2.0.
https://i.imgur.com/4BmjnJ1.jpg

[Duffy]

It's a KAC carbine end plate sling adapter. I thought about making the CNF shorter to make it compatible with the KAC end plate, but gave up on the idea for now. KAC's end plate sling adapter shipped with the old style slip ring that can't be staked, it's not very tall, though it does allow the stock latch to engage the first stop. A milspec height castle nut will not allow the stock latch to engage the first stop on the RE when KAC's, or many sling adapters with side QD sockets are in use.

With the spanner wrench notches, the castle nut would have to be pretty short to be flush with them, but it can be an option down the road. CNF uses the same height as TDP specs and tolerances.

[Stone]

Will these be nitrocarderized?

[Duffy]

They'll be black nitrided :P

[homeless]

I just got my filthy hands on a a CNF, I had to use up all my favors and bribes and black mail material, but man is it worth it.

This little nut is nice. The machine work is top notch. I can't say anything about the coating because mine is still in white.

[homeless]

http://i.cubeupload.com/Fbp65b.jpg

http://i.cubeupload.com/zsqIyO.jpg

http://i.cubeupload.com/TZ8yUR.jpg

http://i.cubeupload.com/SySn1x.jpg


I know these a pretty low quality I used these as a quick test to figure out what i need to.do about lighting in my new gun workbench in the basement.

[Duffy]

CNF's staking notch is TDP spec width, but deeper from the change from 45 to 30 degree, and 25% longer.

[Duffy]

CNF should be shipping next Wednesday or Thursday :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/CNFproduction_zpsskrgriob.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/CNFproduction_zpsskrgriob.jpg.html)

[fledge]

Dynamite. Are these headed to Retailers next week too?

[Duffy]

Yes indeed [:)] Being we only had prototypes and weren't able to take pics of the production units, I'm still waiting to have them on hands first before informing larger distributors like Rainier Arms and Tacticallink.

No guarantee RA will carry it, they don't carry everything we make.

[IamDan]

The order link is live on FCD's website

[Duffy]

Indeed, been busy filling back orders all day, kept wanting to come here to post the link but got pulled for something else http://forwardcontrolsdesign.com/CNF-Castle-Nut-Forwad-Controls_p_103.html [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3136_zpsmh91qg41.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3136_zpsmh91qg41.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3141_zpsjmw9rmyu.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3141_zpsjmw9rmyu.jpg.html)

[fledge]

I’ll grab some as soon as your bolt catch is back in stock.

[Duffy]

They're in production now, not too much longer. OEM customers are grabbing them up faster than we anticipated, we're making plenty this time to mitigate unexpected surge related outages [BD]

[Aragorn]

OEM customers are grabbing them up faster than we anticipated, we're making plenty this time to mitigate unexpected surge related outages [BD]

Excellent! Good for you and FC! :D

[Duffy]

Thank you [:)] In the beginning of FCD, we had some teething problems related to supply. Though it can still happen, the designs of our "old" products have matured, and we've streamlined our supply chain.

These "old" products include LDFA and ABC/R (now version 2). LDFA and ABC/R will see continuous improvement in ergonomics, which at this point, will be quite incremental and evolutionary in nature. Their ongoing modernization, so to speak, isn't based on the need to always have a fresh face, but lessons and experiences we gain in developing other products.

LDFA may see a softening of the plunger cap's edge, ABC/R v2's lower paddle may see the same treatment we used on EMR-A's lever, but it will not have an upside down T shape. I don't believe it's necessary, furthermore, do think an upside down T shaped lower paddle interferes with and impedes the operation of ambidextrous magazine releases, so we're quite adamant about staying with the tried and true vertical paddle.

[Aragorn]

I have to admit I love the LDFA. It's my favorite product of yours. I'm in the process of building another upper and got excited when I found a place that still had the black ionbond Ti version. I'm hoping I get the surplus funds to splash down on it before it's out of stock entirely. That said, it's not the end of the world if I don't, and any improvement (incremental or not) to the LDFA in general is something I'd be interesting in seeing.

Also still loving my EMR and the extra rate spring for it. The pack of five springs was enough to put one in each of my guns. It really is incredible how so seemingly minor details add to the quality feel of a rifle. When I handle other rifles now with a standard FA, they seem unrefined. When I hit a standard mag release it feels cheap.

[Duffy]

EMR is one of my favorites too. Every time I put my finger on one, I'm glad we went through the troubles to have it made, and trouble it is, the curves surface is a pain in the butt lol.

Every time I put my finger on a factory mag release button, I again come face to face with "good enough" [bash]

[UWone77]

This turned out better than I thought it would in my head. Well done Roger. May have to grab a few.

[Duffy]

I'm used to using the KAC carbine end plate sling adapter, with its included old style slip ring, it's impossible to stake and torque down very well using the hole on the ring (even with a proper wrench made for it). To my horrified realization, I suck at staking, since I never got any practice. As bad as they look, they work to prevent the nut from unduly loosening.

First attempt, it is fugly lol [BD]
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3149_zps5gr4zxfg.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3149_zps5gr4zxfg.jpg.html)

Second attempt looked better, but apparently I have trouble centering the stake [crazy]
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3154_zpsdp9whgaq.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3154_zpsdp9whgaq.jpg.html)

I'm glad we toned down on the flutes a bit, they're not distracting anymore.

[UWone77]

What are you using to stake?

[Duffy]

Auto center punch. I'm not sure if I'd fare better if the tool was different, it was the operator's fault [BD]

[Stone]

Try a prick punch, works great for swaging material. https://www.amazon.com/C-S-Osborne-Co-No-354-5/dp/B06VTF59XF/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1517875360&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=prick+punch&psc=1

[Duffy]

The auto punch works pretty well, I don't think it's the tool. If I had used one of these ridiculously priced HK staking tool, my stakes would still turn out looking like ass [BD] Practice is what I need ;)

[cjd3]

I have one properly staked, but one waiting for a reason to be upgraded. I think your next improvment could be called the FCD/TMM (take my money). Keep findings things I need to upgrade for a reason.

[Duffy]

FCD/TMM will take the form of two new projects coming to market soon [:D]

Another one will be available soon, but it's not an FCD designed product, we just carry it, it's a part of our SLCF (selectable lower components, Forward Controls) LPK. As many of you know, most of our products are made for us by Wiley Arms. Wiley Arms makes pivot and takedown pins very much to our liking, they conform to our design policy "Elegant Simplicity" and are functionally improved without unnecessary varnishing. The Wiley Arms Pins, Pivot and Takedown are 0.040 longer than TDP spec pins, the 0.040 extra length went to the left side of the pin, while the right side is as flush as can be. When pushed in, the extra length on the left side transforms to longer and easier to grasp pins on the right, all without interfering with ambi safety operations.

Production ready prototype, Wiley Arms pins are machined from 17-4 PH SS bars, these prototype pins are uncoated. Production pins are QPQ finished.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/WAPPT_zpspjvlltwk.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/WAPPT_zpspjvlltwk.jpg.html)

CNF was one of the fastest projects we developed that went from concept to actual products in 3 months, because of the simple changes we made, but mostly because CMT which makes them for us is awesome and super dependable.

CNF is made by Cross Machine Tools for us, we're very grateful for their craftsmanship and support.

[aamp84]

Hey Roger, did Wiley Arms give you a timeframe for those pins? Those are exactly what I've been looking for.

[Duffy]

ETA is 3 weeks, skip the heat treating as they're 17- PH SS, QPQ is unpredictable, but couple of weeks of turn around is what we've seen so far :P

[Duffy]

Nice staking job on a CNF [:)]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/RG%20pic_zpsv9hh5ptr.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/RG%20pic_zpsv9hh5ptr.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

ETA is 3 weeks, skip the heat treating as they're 17- PH SS, QPQ is unpredictable, but couple of weeks of turn around is what we've seen so far :P

Roger, did I miss the release of the pins?

I'd love to get a set.

[Duffy]

Production version for general release was available last week http://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/PWA-040_p_111.html

SLCF (Selectable Lower Components, Forward Controls) is now available on a limited basis. Due to parts shortage from manufacturers (e.g. Super 42 braided spring and buffer kit, our own ABC/R v2), availability can be spotty.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/SLCF_zpsbp3zbcqs.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/SLCF_zpsbp3zbcqs.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

Perfect, thanks for the link!

[fledge]

Good that you offer a standard mag catch now in your kit. I’ve had to buy them elsewhere before coming to you for springs and buttons.

[Pyzik]

I'll be ordering a set of pins soon. looking good.

[Duffy]

I'd like to add Norgon Ambi-Catch to the mix as well, but it'd further exacerbate the SLCF's availability, I'm going to add Norgon to the mag catch choice once we have the the new shipment from Rainier Arms :)