This post is NOT about Griffin Armament!

[alamo5000]

Just to let Uwone77 know I am not talking specifically about Griffin Armament here [BD] My product fanboy status is already established.

What I do want to discuss is the type of suppressors mentioned in this video. In the video they are called "GP" suppressors.

I know this idea is nothing new. Been around for many moons I'm sure, long before I ever got into the NFA world.

My thoughts on that type of can now that I have some experience under my belt is that it could be extremely viable. Let's be honest. Once I suppressed my first gun, I wanted to suppress everything. I'm sure many of you know exactly what I mean.

Likewise the first time I pulled the trigger and got down on an SBR I liked that too. Now my SBR is tied for first for my most shot gun. What I don't like about SBR's though is all the hassles to take one out of state. In my case I have found that I will run it will a suppressor 100% of the time anyway. Hence the idea to just pin and weld the can. As far as I know I could then take the gun to any suppressor friendly state and not have to worry.

Honestly I don't drive out of state a whole lot, but if I ever do it would be nice to have a truck gun that I can carry along. It will effectively will be a suppressed SBR but for paperwork purposes it won't be. Just goes to show you how stupid the NFA is. My mind is officially blown about how idiotic the laws are about these things.

I don't know but it just seems like it would be another good option to have 'just in case' I ever decide to drive from Texas to Idaho. I could do a suppressed 12.5 or 13.5" bolt gun in .308, or an AR10 SBR equivalent, or any number of other things.

Obviously I've never done it before but it does seem like it could have some distinct advantages, especially if I ever take a road trip or something, or if I want to make a specialty gun of some sort.

All that being said, what's the downside? Anything? How big of a pain in the ass is it to unpin and unweld if you ever need to change barrels? What happens if your gas block comes loose or your gas tube has a problem or something like that? You wouldn't be able to get your handguard off to fix it if it was too narrow. Anything I'm not seeing or catching here?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QObPBtHWPog

[BoilerUp]

Seems like they tweaked the Spartan a bit and are making a .30 cal version.

What is the scenario where taking an SBR out of state in a PitA but taking a suppressor out of state is NOT a PitA? The only scenario I can think of there would be where the destination state doesn't allow SBRs but does allow suppressors. Not sure where that would be. For me, I'd rather drop the extra $$ for another stamp and mounting system so I had the flexibility. Turning a suppressed SBR into a non-suppressed pistol is pretty quick that way.

[alamo5000]

Seems like they tweaked the Spartan a bit and are making a .30 cal version.

What is the scenario where taking an SBR out of state in a PitA but taking a suppressor out of state is NOT a PitA? The only scenario I can think of there would be where the destination state doesn't allow SBRs but does allow suppressors. Not sure where that would be. For me, I'd rather drop the extra $$ for another stamp and mounting system so I had the flexibility. Turning a suppressed SBR into a non-suppressed pistol is pretty quick that way.

My understanding of the rules are:

1. Suppressors you do not have to file any paperwork with the ATF to take them across state lines. Just so long as suppressors are legal where you are going it's ok. No need to notify anyone.

2. To take an SBR across state lines you have to fill out in advance some forms and basically get a permission slip before you can take your SBR, and you have to keep those forms on you. Sort of like a one time use hall pass that takes 6 months to get.

In the case here though, if it's pinned and welded to over a 16" length then it takes the SBR out of it. It's then considered part of the barrel. You could run it on any lower you want without SBRing it and it's perfectly legal.

It would be a suppressed SBR that isn't an SBR simply because the suppressor is basically glued in place. (Well pinned and welded... It was a poor attempt at being a smartass)

On the other hand if you could remove the can, then your barrel is under 16" therefore you are under SBR rules, would need an SBR lower, and in order to cross state lines you have to do all the paperwork.


Hopefully someone that knows exactly will show up and explain the rules. But that is how I understand it to be written.

[alamo5000]

Here is a blog post about what I am talking about.

First off, as long as its legal to own or possess a Suppressor in the state you are traveling to, then you will NOT have to get permission from the ATF to transport your Suppressors to that state.

The following NFA items are the ones you will have to get permission first:

SBR’s (Short Barrel Rifles)
SBS’s (Short Barrel Shotguns)
MachineGuns
Destructive Devices
AOW’s


https://www.esilencers.com/process-transporting-nfa-item-across-state-lines/

[BoilerUp]

Thanks, Alamo. I learned something. I should have exercised my google skills before posting. I get your logic, I just didn't realize that cans don't require ATF permission to travel across state lines (nor should they since they aren't firearms!).

My understanding is that the ATF is pretty quick with approval of 5320.20s and you can set them up to cover a year. So, if you know where you are going maybe it's not such a hurdle.

I think I'd try living with the paperwork for a year or two and see how manageable it is. If it turns out to be a hassle, then perhaps it's worth going down the path of pinning a can. At least the cans are cheap. My hesitation would simple be that I'm always tinkering with my ARs and a pinned anything would limit that somewhat.

[alamo5000]

Thanks, Alamo. I learned something. I should have exercised my google skills before posting. I get your logic, I just didn't realize that cans don't require ATF permission to travel across state lines (nor should they since they aren't firearms!).

My understanding is that the ATF is pretty quick with approval of 5320.20s and you can set them up to cover a year. So, if you know where you are going maybe it's not such a hurdle.

I think I'd try living with the paperwork for a year or two and see how manageable it is. If it turns out to be a hassle, then perhaps it's worth going down the path of pinning a can. At least the cans are cheap. My hesitation would simple be that I'm always tinkering with my ARs and a pinned anything would limit that somewhat.

I honestly don't drive state to state all the time, but periodically I do. So this in a sense is a way around the hassle. Build a nice reliable truck gun that if it gets scratched up, no biggie.

I have zero experience pinning and welding anything so I don't know what the hassle factor really is in that. Likewise how much trouble it might be to swap it to a different gun (if ever needed), or to work on the gun itself like I pointed out before... What all considerations should be taken into account on that regards (IE the technical side) is kind of where I am going with this.

Right now I have a few really nice guns that I spent a lot of money on. Don't get me wrong, they aren't safe queens by any means, but since I might build more AR's in the future it might be a viable option to build a 'working man's gun' that I can toss in the car/truck/boat and not worry so much.

Mentally for me I shoot everything I own, but in the same note I take care of my stuff. I do kind of baby all of it. But building a non SBR lowered AR that I can just man handle and knock around if need be... that's something that I don't own right now and it would have a really good purpose. It would sort of be like having a few really nice cars but then buying an old truck that you can drive around and play in the mud, haul wood, dent it, scratch it, run over stuff in cow pastures, and just be like 'oh well' would be more like what I am talking about.

I actually might want to add something more 'budget' to my collection on purpose.

Plus being able to take a non SBR suppressed SBR to another state without notifying a soul is another bonus.

[alamo5000]

I mean if it's like $50 to get it pinned and welded that's not a problem. If it's another $50 to get it unpinned and unwelded that too is not a problem. But considering the can in theory would be permanently attached what other considerations are there to being able to service the gun if needed?

If I did go this route I would definitely pin the gas block. When it comes to hand guards and stuff like that there might be 3 or 4 ways to go about this. Trying to get a really tight suppressor to hand guard fit might not be the best option. Going with a front sight post barrel and a handle upper reciever and just run plain old iron sights that could be an option.

The wheels are turning though.

Being able to up my game and carry a rifle in my car/truck sounds kind of attractive too. Especially living in the country this is another good idea on the table.

[Joelski]

Thought:

You go through the meticulous process of shimming the MD with peel washers, making sure the mating areas are all surgically clean... and the first shot produces a baffle strike. Not likely, but if it could happen, it would happen to me. What then? Potential damage to the can from removing it, should it ever require servicing; then what? Not to harsh your buzz, bro, but I think its a bad idea.

On a related note: I've heard the forms are advisory; ie; send them in and keep copies and you're gtg.

On a non-related note: LOOKIT THE FANBOI! LOOKIT THE FANBOI!!! [:D]

[Aragorn]

If you want to remove something pinned and welded it typically destroys whatever device is being removed. Isn't particularly wonderful for the threading at the end of your barrel either.

I know because I had it done.

[fledge]

If you want to remove something pinned and welded it typically destroys whatever device is being removed. Isn't particularly wonderful for the threading at the end of your barrel either.

I know because I had it done.

Depends the device and who is doing it.

I had a pinned device removed recently and sold the device because it was hardly showed any wear.

[Aragorn]

Depends the device and who is doing it.

I had a pinned device removed recently and sold the device because it was hardly showed any wear.

Oh wow. That's awesome. I had ADCO do mine and they milled through the device PARALLEL to the bore to remove the pin. Also managed to shave down the tops of the barrel threading while they were at it.

[alamo5000]

If I ever did decide to do something like this I would try to find a good CHF 10.5 barrel. There is no way I would ever shoot out a barrel like that. Some of the other types though, over time I think I shoot enough to wear one out. It's good to know though about how the pinning and welding stuff works before leaping in. I would definitely want to know a whole lot more before I ever went that route.

On the other end of it if the suppressor is pinned and welded it would make me think twice about what kind of hand guards and all that. If the upper itself ever needed to be worked on I'm not sure how that would operate.

I would definitely pin the gas block too and hope that nothing ever goes wrong with the gas tube. As unlikely as that is to happen I am curious about the best way to set up an upper with those other considerations in mind.

[Aragorn]

Two piece hand guards that came off in an upper and lower half used to be a thing. Probably still is somewhere. That would at least give you access to the gas system if you felt like you needed it.

The Daniel Defense Omega comes to mind. It's free float, uses a standard barrel nut (so you may have some potential options for changing things in the future) and is full picatinny. Not sure without opening another Google tab if they still make it.

[fledge]

Honestly, for a truck gun for the rare crossing of the state line, a pistol is a easier, cheaper and better idea.

Aragorn, thanks for the heads up on ADCO removal service. Yikes.

[DeviantLogic]

You could always just get an integrally suppressed upper/rifle. Sounds like Griffin already has that in the works, but there are other makers out there. If it was me though, I'd just fill out the form 20 and use what I've already got.

[Former11B]

Make sure the rail you want has an ID greater than 1.5”. Problem solved

My local suppressor shop and all things NFA (Innovative Arms) charges $20 for a pin and weld. Not sure about removal, but I was in there one time and they had probably 50 Colt 10.5” uppers with pinned cans on them that some private security company (Nuke plant I think) was having them unpin. So it’s definitely doable if the care is taken. I would worry about the can surviving and go ahead and chalk the barrel up as scrap (or cut down to 7.5”).

I would love a GP7 for a 300BLK build and my 308 bolt gun.

Filing a form to take an SBR out of state is ridiculous. Bad enough they know you have the gun, but knowing where you’re taking it? Jesus. Whyyyyy