AR Scope Mounts

[alamo5000]

Quickly to get you guy's input on this...

I see most of you prefer using one piece mounts for your AR setups, but is there any reason for this vs say using scope rings?

What is the downside to using rings vs a one piece mount?

Or is there a downside?

Thanks!

[Aragorn]

One piece QD.

Obviously because it's QD, but also because you can get extended mounts and not have to put a ring on the forend if you're like me and prefer the scope pushed a little more forward.

[alamo5000]

One piece QD.

Obviously because it's QD, but also because you can get extended mounts and not have to put a ring on the forend if you're like me and prefer the scope pushed a little more forward.

I just have the option to get a really good deal on some rings and I was wondering 'why not'. The height on my mount now is 1.5 inches and it's a one piece, but not QD. (Aero mount). I was just kind of contemplating if rings have any kind of disadvantage in the AR world.

[UWone77]

Mainly for the QD. Repeat ability to zero when taking the optic off to clean is another consideration.

Honestly in the last few years I've gone to a lot of dedicated optics, so the QD is not necessary.

[alamo5000]

Mainly for the QD. Repeat ability to zero when taking the optic off to clean is another consideration.

Honestly in the last few years I've gone to a lot of dedicated optics, so the QD is not necessary.

I have never removed my scope from my rifle from the day it's been zeroed. I am not really doing a whole lot of QD this or that. Moving to a good set of rings vs the Aero mount I am just wondering if that might be something to consider since I can get those rings for next to nothing.

I am also trying to sort out the height thing to see if that will make any difference.

But for an SPR rifle that has generally a dedicated use (precision) I wouldn't think rings would have any disadvantage but then again I am a noob.

[FortTom]

I have never removed my scope from my rifle from the day it's been zeroed. ..........But for an SPR rifle that has generally a dedicated use (precision) I wouldn't think rings would have any disadvantage but ...... If it's a dedicated precision target rifle, and you like your current set-up, don't screw with it, just to be screwing with it.

FT[:D]

[Slippers]

Separate rings on an AR15 make it very difficult to get proper eye relief since you shouldn't place the forward one on the handguard. One piece mounts allow you to cantilever over the handguard.

[alamo5000]

If it's a dedicated precision target rifle, and you like your current set-up, don't screw with it, just to be screwing with it.

FT[:D]

LOL! Good advice!

I am not screwing with it just to be screwing with it. This was my first ever AR and since then I never changed the setup at all. The mount being too high for me actually has been semi sort of bugging me for a while now. I kind of have to get in an awkward position to see properly with the one I have now. Of course I have learned to live with it for quite a long time already, but now I can adjust it more to my liking, especially now that I have almost 4 years with it to know what I want to do.

I actually just removed the scope base from my rail and did the old stacking pennies thing to try and replicate what the new rings will be. I used some masking tape and taped it down and it seems like it would feel a lot better and a more relaxed shooting position with a little bit lower of rings.


Separate rings on an AR15 make it very difficult to get proper eye relief since you shouldn't place the forward one on the handguard. One piece mounts allow you to cantilever over the handguard.

Thank you for that too. Seriously. That is great info to know.

It helps to have so many experienced shooters/builders here that help each other out. I definitely checked on that too and with the rings and that specific scope if I put the front ring on the very front section on the upper the back of the bell housing is very close to where it was at. I just kind of eyeballed it and it seems like it's very close. That is without using the hand guard sections at all.

It fits, but just barely to have the exact same placement. The exact difference will depend on how wide the rings are but just eyeballing it it would be within 1/4 of an inch or so (back) from the previous spot, if that. It might even wind up being the same.

[SINNER]

Using rings on a machined steel rail property bedded on a bolt gun is a far cry from the fairly loose tolerances held on most aluminum uppers. Slippers point is by far the biggest reason but even on the longer AR10’s when you check rings with alignment rods they are more often than not far out of alignment. Even torqued to spec when loosened and reinstalled they are often off again.

The Bobro individual rings and Spuhr seem to be the exception, my guess is due to the longer base and the extremely tight tolerances from those companies.

[alamo5000]

Using rings on a machined steel rail property bedded on a bolt gun is a far cry from the fairly loose tolerances held on most aluminum uppers. Slippers point is by far the biggest reason but even on the longer AR10’s when you check rings with alignment rods they are more often than not far out of alignment. Even torqued to spec when loosened and reinstalled they are often off again.

The Bobro individual rings and Spuhr seem to be the exception, my guess is due to the longer base and the extremely tight tolerances from those companies.

Slippers is definitely the man! [adore]

My upper is a CMT so I am figuring it's pretty close to on spec, but even if it's not 'exact' that's ok. I just need something that will hold on tight and be good enough to withstand 5.56. [:D]

Once I put it on there as long as it's more comfortable to shoot I won't be taking it off and putting it back on. The other mount has been on there for 4 years (until tonight).

The problem being solved here is that I realized long ago that the mount was slightly too high and that throws a lot of other stuff out of whack. Up until now I just never did anything about it.

I do shoot that gun longer ranges from time to time. I can hit out to 800 yards with it but that's all academic. If I can get the scope leveled and rezeroed I think I will be good to go. Slipper's point about eye relief was definitely spot on the money. Worst case scenario is I will either find a new one piece mount that is lower, or I will remount it back the old way. I am confident that the rings will work out though because at least from eyeballing it I won't have to push the scope way back. That would be awkward in and of itself and cause yet a different problem.

When I finally get around to forking out the money for good optics I will definitely hit you guys up. That SPHUR mount is something else. After the other day shooting the Nightforce set up-- I am now hooked on champagne tastes.

[SINNER]

Eye relief has a lot to do with my love of Magpul PRS stocks. I’m not a huge fan of the extreme extended one piece mounts. I much rather run the optic a little further back than use a mount that hangs a large portion of the optics weight out over the base.

You think you are hooked now on good glass, wait until you get some years on those eyes. Lol

[alamo5000]

Eye relief has a lot to do with my love of Magpul PRS stocks. I’m not a huge fan of the extreme extended one piece mounts. I much rather run the optic a little further back than use a mount that hangs a large portion of the optics weight out over the base.

You think you are hooked now on good glass, wait until you get some years on those eyes. Lol

I still haven't fully decided what I am going to do yet in the way of bolt guns. I am thinking that since optics are an arm and a leg--- and since I don't know my way around the nuances of bolt guns---I am sort of in the same boat as I was when I first started with AR's. IE "Why is this lower $100 and that one $250?"

Because of that I might get some input and buy a satisfactory off the shelf .308 with a Remington 700 action on it and then buy a 20 MOA SPHUR and a good 5-25 that would pull double duty for a while. After I get some time under my belt I will have a better idea of what I want to upgrade and what doesn't really make a difference.

Here are some options of just the rough idea of what I would be looking at.

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-magpul

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-magpul-enhanced

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-pcr

Eventually when I get the money I want a 1,600 yard shooter (at least). I am thinking 6.5 CM but who knows. But if I buy a good SPHUR mount and a nice optic I could move it from rifle to rifle with just a little bit of re-zeroing required. That will get me by until I can come up with another few thousand bucks for optics and mounts for everything.

[alamo5000]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Really appreciate it.

[Stone]

With my insurance company, if I use QD attachments on my scopes, red dots and lights its not considered a permanent part of the rifle. If my rifles are ever stolen my scopes and MRD's are covered under personal property and not under the firearm waiver which ends at 10K. I have almost that in glass alone which if stolen I could recoup those costs. Food for thought.

[Slippers]

Moving scopes between rifles is kind of a pain. Yeah, you can record the adjustments to zero on each, but then your zero stops are possibly different, and if you ever dial for elevation you have to remember that you're starting at a different value. The last thing I want to do is reset the zero hold turret on my atacr 4-16 every time I remount it on a different rifle. That would be a serious annoyance.

One optic per rifle. No QD mounts. That's my preference; not implying anything against other's choices.

[alamo5000]

One optic per rifle. No QD mounts. That's my preference; not implying anything against other's choices.

That is my preference too. By FAR. My wallet though... my wallet LOL! If I hit the lotto or all my stocks go up by a lot that would be ideal. Otherwise I am going to have to save for a while to get good optics. Right now for what I have planned already--if I go premium that's roughly 10 grand to fit everything with good glass.

That is part of the reason I research stuff out so much. I only have so much money so I want to spend wisely.

I would like to have a room full of guns on my 1,000 acre ranch with a giant automated reloading room, but I might have to decide on one gun at a time and go from there.

[Slippers]

That is my preference too. By FAR. My wallet though... my wallet LOL! If I hit the lotto or all my stocks go up by a lot that would be ideal. Otherwise I am going to have to save for a while to get good optics. Right now for what I have planned already--if I go premium that's roughly 10 grand to fit everything with good glass.

That is part of the reason I research stuff out so much. I only have so much money so I want to spend wisely.

I would like to have a room full of guns on my 1,000 acre ranch with a giant automated reloading room, but I might have to decide on one gun at a time and go from there.

While I do get dealer or industry pricing on a lot of stuff, high end rifles and optics are expensive no matter what. I have nice setups because I am very selective, and don't waste money on multiple ARs that are going to sit in my safe (not saying you do this). Figure out what your need is, build something specifically for that if you're going to actually use it a lot, and get rid of everything you don't use unless it has sentimental value.

People who own 10+ ARs could cull that down to 2 rifles and have lots of money left over for some high end glass, a decent bolt gun, or even a transferable machine gun, depending on what you're into.

One of my friends dug through his safes and sold off $40,000+ worth of title 1 firearms, parts, and random gear. All of it was rarely shot/used, and some things he had forgotten he owned. He then turned around and purchased a beater transferable M16 lower and a Fleming HK sear with that money, which will only gain value over time even as he uses them.

[alamo5000]

While I do get dealer or industry pricing on a lot of stuff, high end rifles and optics are expensive no matter what. I have nice setups because I am very selective, and don't waste money on multiple ARs that are going to sit in my safe (not saying you do this). Figure out what your need is, build something specifically for that if you're going to actually use it a lot, and get rid of everything you don't use unless it has sentimental value.

People who own 10+ ARs could cull that down to 2 rifles and have lots of money left over for some high end glass, a decent bolt gun, or even a transferable machine gun, depending on what you're into.

One of my friends dug through his safes and sold off $40,000+ worth of title 1 firearms, parts, and random gear. All of it was rarely shot/used, and some things he had forgotten he owned. He then turned around and purchased a beater transferable M16 lower and a Fleming HK sear with that money, which will only gain value over time even as he uses them.

I am very much like that. I am VERY selective. For like a year the guys here gave me crap over that. LOL! It's fine, it was deserved. HAHAA!

I don't mind having a lot of firearms by any means. I could blow $100 grand in no time, but I would rather have nicer stuff than just a lot of stuff. I also like to be practical too. For the time being I haven't been able to make any big purchases, but I really (I mean quite a lot) enjoy the long range stuff. The other day when I was shooting out to 1,400 yards (check out my thread) I was having SO MUCH FUN.

I don't shoot for a living or because I am a ninja assassin. I just enjoy it. Ultra long range stuff just turns me on.

I have a bunch of stuff that I still want though. That said if I got a million bucks next week I would probably invest in a really good automated or semi automated reloading setup. I would be neck deep in ammo. My thinking is why buy a ton of guns and not have ammo for them?

I just have to put a lot of thought into exactly what rifle I want and pester people that know stuff until I learn. I like nice stuff but not really status symbol stuff. Once I make up my mind I just have to save up.

In the mean time I will keep on playing the stock market and buying lotto tickets. [BD] If either one of those hits big then why not just have it all? LOL!

[Former11B]

LOL! Good advice!

I am not screwing with it just to be screwing with it. This was my first ever AR and since then I never changed the setup at all. The mount being too high for me actually has been semi sort of bugging me for a while now. I kind of have to get in an awkward position to see properly with the one I have now. Of course I have learned to live with it for quite a long time already, but now I can adjust it more to my liking, especially now that I have almost 4 years with it to know what I want to do.

I actually just removed the scope base from my rail and did the old stacking pennies thing to try and replicate what the new rings will be. I used some masking tape and taped it down and it seems like it would feel a lot better and a more relaxed shooting position with a little bit lower of rings.



Thank you for that too. Seriously. That is great info to know.

It helps to have so many experienced shooters/builders here that help each other out. I definitely checked on that too and with the rings and that specific scope if I put the front ring on the very front section on the upper the back of the bell housing is very close to where it was at. I just kind of eyeballed it and it seems like it's very close. That is without using the hand guard sections at all.

It fits, but just barely to have the exact same placement. The exact difference will depend on how wide the rings are but just eyeballing it it would be within 1/4 of an inch or so (back) from the previous spot, if that. It might even wind up being the same.

I’m not saying the military is the end all be all, but I saw a ton of Mk12 Mod 1s with the front ring (ARMS) on the KAC RAS. The Mod 0s have the swan sleeve over the PRI tube so it was definitely the Mod 1. And with the abuse the rifles endure, I didn’t see any issues develop. I ran Vortex precision rings on my 18” SPR on the rail for a few years with no problems either.

If the setup is solid I’m not sure it’s such a taboo thing to do.


OP, I don’t have the ring setup anymore though. I do like a solid non QD mount like Vortex’s offering because the scope stays level in the mount. I also have a Larue SPR-E mount and have had no loss of POI after removing/replacing it

[gatordev]

While I do get dealer or industry pricing on a lot of stuff, high end rifles and optics are expensive no matter what. I have nice setups because I am very selective, and don't waste money on multiple ARs that are going to sit in my safe (not saying you do this). Figure out what your need is, build something specifically for that if you're going to actually use it a lot, and get rid of everything you don't use unless it has sentimental value.

People who own 10+ ARs could cull that down to 2 rifles and have lots of money left over for some high end glass, a decent bolt gun, or even a transferable machine gun, depending on what you're into.

One of my friends dug through his safes and sold off $40,000+ worth of title 1 firearms, parts, and random gear. All of it was rarely shot/used, and some things he had forgotten he owned. He then turned around and purchased a beater transferable M16 lower and a Fleming HK sear with that money, which will only gain value over time even as he uses them.

As usual, great advice. While I don't wish for another run on firearms, for now I'm just sitting on a couple of rifles because I know I can't really unload them very easily in this market. I'm sure that will change eventually...and I wouldn't be surprised if it was in 2020-21.

[SINNER]

I’m not saying the military is the end all be all, but I saw a ton of Mk12 Mod 1s with the front ring (ARMS) on the KAC RAS. The Mod 0s have the swan sleeve over the PRI tube so it was definitely the Mod 1. And with the abuse the rifles endure, I didn’t see any issues develop. I ran Vortex precision rings on my 18” SPR on the rail for a few years with no problems either.

If the setup is solid I’m not sure it’s such a taboo thing to do.


OP, I don’t have the ring setup anymore though. I do like a solid non QD mount like Vortex’s offering because the scope stays level in the mount. I also have a Larue SPR-E mount and have had no loss of POI after removing/replacing it

I’ve personally seen 2 rifles string shots vertically from a front ring on the hand guard. As the barrel nut expanded both rifles would consistently string shots to ultimately being about 6” low. After a cool down zero returned to the correct POA. Not even getting into the stresses placed on the optic tube from the upper flexing during recoil.