Forward Controls Design ESF (End plate, Sling adapter, Forward Controls Design)

[Duffy]

The concept and products like this have been around, KAC was the first, then there was DD, LWRC, Tangodown, Tacticallink, etc., TD's PR4 and Tacticallink install over existing end plate and castle nut, for agencies that don't allow parts like these to be substituted. KAC's and LWRC's are quite similar. ESF is definitely not an original concept, but we're rarely the first on the scene, not being first doesn't matter and doesn't bother us. I think this may be the first end plate/sling adapter in the form of an end plate that has side facing and rear facing sockets, which explains its shape, it is a little different looking from the KAC and LWRC end plate/sling adapters.

Here is a first look of the ESF prototype. Don't mind the nut that's holding the ESF and RE to the lower, it's not a an AR spec castle nut or AR spec anything. A standard castle nut will come flush with the rear of the ESF. A bit of last minute development is we're likely to develop our own short castle nut wrench in conjunction with the ESF. In most cases, a 3 lug castle nut wrench can be used to torque down the ESF, but since the QD socket housing masks 1/4 of the castle nut's circumference, a 2 lug castle nut wrench will ensure it will always be able to engage 2 notches.

ESF uses standard carbine castle nut, allows the castle nut to be staked and the carbine stock to fully collapse. It is incompatible with A1 and A2 fixed stocks.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ESF%20prototype_zpsf1ntadfw.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ESF%20prototype_zpsf1ntadfw.jpg.html)

There will be two production versions, one with limiters on the side facing sockets, and one without limiters.

The addition of an elongated end plate does give the AR15 receiver an AR10/SR25 like silhouette, that's kind of coincidental. I've always thought the AR15 carbine receiver's rear looks abruptly chopped off, and it is. AR15 receiver flows into an A2 or A1 stock, but with a carbine, the receive end suddenly with the receiver extension sticking out of it. We didn't create ESF for looks, but it's nice it helps the aesthetics of the AR carbine. If you use a very high hold on the pistol grip, the extra length in the rear can provide more support for your hand.

[UWone77]

I like this.

[RobertTheTexan]

Very well done Duf!! I really like the design. Can’t wait to see it in production and on the website! :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

Thank you :)

[Uffdaphil]

I gotta agree. That looks great!

[fledge]

Looks good. How about a pic with your new castle nut?

[Duffy]

ESF prototypes are on their way to us for testing, till then, only pics of the rapid prototype with the CNF [BD]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/esfcnf_zps9oc4vwz7.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/esfcnf_zps9oc4vwz7.jpg.html)

[Slippers]

I thought I was the only person that liked the longer receiver of an ar10/sr25 compared to the chopped off look of an ar15. I may need some of these.

[Duffy]

Will, we're not the only ones. More than a few occasions folks have asked if my KAC end plate equipped AR15 was different because of the extra 0.5" the KAC end plate adds to the receiver. When I looked into it, I realized the reason why the 0.5" makes the AR carbine receiver look complete. The rear of the receiver doesn't transition, but abruptly cuts to the RE. The 0.5" length helps transition the receiver to stock gap.

Not that I'd make a long end plate just for that, even if it might help a bit with folks with a very high hold on the pistol grip.

Testing something in the desert, the AR has a KAC end plate installed.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2408_zpsljq3cm6p.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2408_zpsljq3cm6p.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

Any idea what the price point will be?

[Duffy]

Rough estimate is no more than 1/2 of KAC's end plate :P

[Duffy]

ESF 7075 prototype. Production material may be different, or we may offer both 7075 and 4140 options.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3435_zpsa4b2lhry.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3435_zpsa4b2lhry.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3434_zpshvxjya2k.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3434_zpshvxjya2k.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

In this pic, I spray canned the ESF prototype and installed on a painted receiver. ESF lengthens the AR receiver, and gives it an AR10/SR25 silhouette, even though its looks are just the result of its functions.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3473_zpsnz7ryesd.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3473_zpsnz7ryesd.jpg.html)

[fledge]

Looks dynamite. Looking forward to trying one.

[Pyzik]

Will, we're not the only ones. More than a few occasions folks have asked if my KAC end plate equipped AR15 was different because of the extra 0.5" the KAC end plate adds to the receiver. When I looked into it, I realized the reason why the 0.5" makes the AR carbine receiver look complete. The rear of the receiver doesn't transition, but abruptly cuts to the RE. The 0.5" length helps transition the receiver to stock gap.

Not that I'd make a long end plate just for that, even if it might help a bit with folks with a very high hold on the pistol grip.

Testing something in the desert, the AR has a KAC end plate installed.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_2408_zpsljq3cm6p.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_2408_zpsljq3cm6p.jpg.html)

An AR looks so much better with that gap filled.
Will grab a one for sure.

[Slippers]

In this pic, I spray canned the ESF prototype and installed on a painted receiver. ESF lengthens the AR receiver, and gives it an AR10/SR25 silhouette, even though its looks are just the result of its functions.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/IMG_3473_zpsnz7ryesd.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/IMG_3473_zpsnz7ryesd.jpg.html)

Are you working on a trigger guard? :)

[Duffy]

Will, I'm having a hard time finding a USGI flat trigger guard, so none was installed [BD] This receiver most likely will be used for testing only, so I'm not in a hurry to complete it.

I thought about doing a trigger guard. The stark reality is there's scarcely anything that can be improved over the USGI (other than the gap, but there's the gapper for that). B5, Magpul, etc. already have plenty of them for those that want a slightly larger space. The one I was sort of working on long ago looked something like a SIG P22x trigger guard, till one day I realized it didn't do anything better, so it was dropped.

Back to the ESF....
A companion castle nut wrench will be available at about the same time as the ESF's release. ESF's QD socket housing covers up 1/4 of the castle nut's circumference, there can be times when not all three wrench notches are presented for tightening and torquing. Since most castle nut wrenches seem to have 3 lugs, this can be an issue, not just for ESF, but for other similar end plates/sling adapters that mask available wrench notches.

Ours will feature both a 2 lug and 3 lug wrench, with a socket for torque wrench. This will be our first tool, we've kept it simple and robust, and very high quality. An armorer's wrench it isn't and does't aim to be, it's a proper castle nut wrench :)

[Duffy]

7075 ESF will be ready to ship early next week :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/esfgap_zps93jobpst.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/esfgap_zps93jobpst.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/esfproto_zpsjn1xjvug.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/esfproto_zpsjn1xjvug.jpg.html)

[fledge]

Bring it.

[UWone77]

You settle on a price?

[RobertTheTexan]

Can I pre-order?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

MSRP will be below $35 for the 7075 anodized version, rough estimate for the 4140, black nitrided version is below $55.

We should be receiving 7075 anodized version soon, but until we look at the anodizing quality, I'm hesitant to enable back order, lest we have to send everything back for a redo.

[RobertTheTexan]

MSRP will be below $35 for the 7075 anodized version, rough estimate for the 4140, black nitrided version is below $55.

We should be receiving 7075 anodized version soon, but until we look at the anodizing quality, I'm hesitant to enable back order, lest we have to send everything back for a redo.

You and your quality control... :)
Outstanding. I don’t mind waiting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

We have to meet or exceed expectations :) If the finish doesn't turn out well on some, we can always mark them down as blemished and reduce the MSRP on these. I haven't decided whether the 7075 anodized version will stay for long, we may end up producing just the 4140 black nitrided version only.

7075 anodized ESF wasn't created to be a light weight product, we never jumped on that fad band wagon and never will, it's only because similar products are made in 7075 and I didn't see any problem with it. But since we decided to make a 4140 version as well, there seems to be no need for both to exist.

By having a heavy duty version, it'd seem we imply the 7075 is a light duty product, it's not true but we can't change the optics and perception.

7075 ESFs may well see a single production run and become unicorn after that. To wit, similar products are mostly in aluminum, but it doesn't mean we have to follow suit. Nobody seems to make a steel version other than FCD.

[RobertTheTexan]

So basically you’re using a steel that is somewhat slightly less hard or less carbon content than he 4150 that some of my barrels, sub MOA barrels I might add, are made of? Is that correct?

Pardon my metallurgical ignorance friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UWone77]

I'm in Roger... I definitely need one or two.

[RobertTheTexan]

I'm in Roger... I definitely need one or two.

I’m going to jump in Uwone’s side car. I’ll take a couple and for sure a 7075 if possible, just in case it gets unicorn tear status.:)

I may have an ingenious idea for those 7075’s...need to test something out in the shop real quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

Robert, I'm assuming you're hinting the use of 4140 on ESF is a good thing? [BD]

4140 seems to be overkill in material, which we do not object to, we only avoid over complexity and increase in parts count that can't be justified.

The "ring" part of ESF is TDP spec thickness and tolerance for carbine end plates, which allows the use of stakable castle nuts, and for the stock to fully collapse. There has been some concern (internal discussions) of the thickness, especially in 7075. The sockets housing is machined to such tight tolerance, if the ESF were to bend, the housing and castle nut are almost touching, the housing will effectively bottom out on the castle nut and stop further travel.

I'm overthinking it of course, just because I haven't seen any documented case of a aluminum end plate/sling adapter bending, it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Either way, aluminum ESF can handle it.

[UWone77]

I know I've used lesser end plates/QD's they hold up fine. Aluminum ESF will be more than sufficient. A 7075 would be cool, but definitely cost/benefit isn't there for me personally.

[RobertTheTexan]

Definitely a good thing Roger. When I first saw that I kinda laughed and said, add one more thing that’ll likely survive the zombie apocalypse....
1. Cockroaches
2. Twinkies
3. FC ESF

[Duffy]

The 4140 ESF is below its LWRC and KAC aluminum counterparts ($71 with a QD swivel, and $82 without a QD swivel, but comes with a locking ring, respectively) :P

ESF will not come with a QD swivel, we may make it an optional item.

[Duffy]

ESF companion castle nut wrench (CWF) in the rough. It's a simple castle nut wrench that won't pretend to be and do anything else. There's a 3 lug wrench on one side, and a 2 lug wrench on the other. Carbine end plates like the ESF, and similar products like LWRC's, effectively mask 1/4 of the castle nut's circumference, it's possible a 3 lug wrench can't find all 3 notches available to engage. Thus there's a 2 lug castle nut wrench for that contingency.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/Screen%20Shot%202018-06-14%20at%207.59.50%20AM_zpskamsle0x.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/Screen%20Shot%202018-06-14%20at%207.59.50%20AM_zpskamsle0x.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

Ready to ship later this week :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ESF%20logo_zpsq7kbclb8.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ESF%20logo_zpsq7kbclb8.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

I really like how this came out.

Any dealers carrying these as well or just from the website?

[Duffy]

Not yet, we haven't begun to ship to customers and dealers yet, will start doing so later this week. I hope Rainier Arms will carry it, but it's been slow to pick up our new products, mostly the dimple surfaced variants that have done so well for us and other dealers.

[Duffy]

ESF prototype shown with CNF (Castle Nut, Forward Controls Design). ESF allows SOPMOD and B5 Bravo stocks to fully collapse with a rear facing QD swivel installed. If a QD swivel is present in the rear facing socket, most other carbine stocks will close on the #2 position on the RE.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/esfrearsocket_zpsvxukrw6y.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/esfrearsocket_zpsvxukrw6y.jpg.html)

[fledge]

It’s live on the site.

[Duffy]

Oh yeah, I meant to post it here, thank you fledge [BD]

http://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ESF_p_126.html

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ESF5_zpsfpdh4z5b.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ESF5_zpsfpdh4z5b.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

ESF and CNF installed on an Armalite AR10B [:D]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/308ESF_zpsqv2p43il.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/308ESF_zpsqv2p43il.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

I forget is there a code?

I'll probably get my order in on Monday.

Thanks for posting Roger!

[Pyzik]

I'll end up with a couple

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

MIL15

[BD]

[Aragorn]

Ahhh missed the code. Oh well.

[Duffy]

that code doesn't expire. You can always email me or text me if you forget [:D]

[Aragorn]

that code doesn't expire. You can always email me or text me if you forget [:D]

Next time. I feel like I'm forever ordering things from you.

[RobertTheTexan]

Thanks Roger!!
Im
Picked up my first one a few minutes ago! With QD swing swivel, which is also a good buy.

Thanks!!

Robert


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

Thank you Robert!

Here's a 7075 ESF in desert tan, it's a shade lighter than the 3 FDE shades on the M600DF I just got from Will at Arisaka Defense today :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/deserttanesf_zpsj7q2hwef.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/deserttanesf_zpsj7q2hwef.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

JCW (Joint Castle nut Wrench) prototype ;)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/JCW_zpsnhqj5xhg.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/JCW_zpsnhqj5xhg.jpg.html)

[Jumpmaster]

Shut up and take my money!!!!!! Seriously, have to have this. Nice job.

[RobertTheTexan]

DCW (Duplex Castle nut Wrench) prototype ;)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/JCW_zpsnhqj5xhg.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/JCW_zpsnhqj5xhg.jpg.html)

I can tell you need to have that wrench klutz tested. You know, the tests:
- Banged knuckle tests
- Profanity Count Test
- Beer Opening Viability Tests
- Zombie Slayin’ Device Tests
- The Anything Not Covered Above Test

I volunteer my humble services good sir.
:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

That'a a lot of tests Robert [BD]

It's funny you should mention that. I was thinking about incorporating a bottle opener to it, or a 3/4 wrench for the flash suppressor. We decided to not go the multi-use route, and just stick to the mission at hand. I knew once went started making tools, it'd be tempting to keep adding functions to it. The market has no need for another armorer's tool.

So we kept the JCW (made a mistake with the name in previous posts) simple and dedicated. FCD had already started to branch out to non-gun designs, started with the simple but quite useful Sling Keep A, then Sling Keep B. The Joint Castle nut Wrench is the latest, there are other non-gun projects already designed and near production status that haven't been announced.

I know why I'd like a simple but heavy duty castle nut wrench, wonder if it's the same reason with you guys. The armorer's wrenches I have are big and heavy, for the most part I don't use them unless I need to connect a torque wrench. I install and uninstall REs a lot for testing stuff, so I end up using this cheap ass sheet metal wrench, probably bought for $8 back in the early 2000s, it works but there's no way to use a torque wrench with it.

A dedicated heavy duty castle nut wrench seems to have a niche. The 2 lug wrench is perfect for end plate/sling adapters that at times can't present all 3 wrench notches for the conventional 3 lug wrenches, as the 2 lug wrench only requires only 100 to 100 degree of the castle nut radius to work. A 3 lug wrench will need 190 to 200 degree of the radius to engage all 3 lugs.

[fledge]

The sheet metal wrench.... mine has been bent and reshaped and I use it only on nuts I can’t access with the Magpul wrench (eg pistol tubes).

But the Magpul armorers wrench is large if using a torque wrench with it. Having a dedicated wrench like yours would be great. I rarely use the other features on the armorers wrench.

I’m guessing your two lug wrench is for two exposed wrenches in the 45* locations and not the 180* locations. The SMOS castle nut only has the 180* lugs and does not give ideal purchase with either wrench mentioned above. Not sure if other manufacturers use nuts like SMOS, but I wanted to mention it.

[Duffy]

I had no idea SMOS made out of spec castle nuts, why would one do that? Many castle nut wrenches won't work with it. A set screw and no staking notches? So users can tighten it without staking the castle nut? Without staking notches, the ability to do so has been removed. Why go out of your way just to avoid doing what is the proper means of securing a castle nut?

JCW's 2 lug wrench does indeed use two adjacent notches, 90 degrees apart, not 180 degrees. 180 degree would encompass all three notches, which the 3 lug wrench can handle.

Ironically, JCW might work with the SMOS out of spec castle nut.

[Aragorn]

Yeah I'm gonna need one of those wrenches...

Only have two slots exposed for tightening the castle nut with the ESF.

Sitting here not quite sure what to do.

[Duffy]

If you have a Multitasker, it'll work with just 2 available notches, though you can't torque it with a torque wrench. JCWs are in production now.

[Aragorn]

I don't have a multitasker, just a castle but wrench. I'll order one of yours as soon as they're available, and probably at least one more ESF/Castle nut combo. This thing is awesome.

[Duffy]

The "high back" of the ESF acts as backstop. Should excessive pulling force is applied on the rear facing socket and the ring part of ESF starts to bend, ESF's socket housing will almost immediately bottom out against the castle nut. There's hardly any space between the castle nut and ESF, for the same reason. Not necessary perhaps, but I like assurances :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/ESFKACCOMP_zpsn3gbtrrh.png (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/ESFKACCOMP_zpsn3gbtrrh.png.html)

There has been frequent comparison between KAC's end plate/sling adapter and ESF, so I wrote an article about it :) http://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ESF_ep_60-1.html

[Duffy]

I forgot the kind of quality work a professional photographer is capable of :P

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/esfcnf_zpso8anhprn.jpeg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/esfcnf_zpso8anhprn.jpeg.html)

[fledge]

Looks great.

And appears peppered pixel is back in the game!

[Pyzik]

I forgot the kind of quality work a professional photographer is capable of [emoji14]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/esfcnf_zpso8anhprn.jpeg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/esfcnf_zpso8anhprn.jpeg.html)That is an excellent shot

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Duffy]

I tried to talk Mark into it, but he's pretty happy being out of it. I've been taking most of our product pics, professional quality photos made me realize I need to stick to designing stuff lol. We use a variety of pictures on our site, including David Pyzik's, they make the difference between mom and pop shop, and a professionally run outfit.

[Duffy]

It does appear Mark is back on a limited basis, I've missed seeing his pics.

Here's a pic (not from Mark) of a well staked CNF with ESF :)
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/36490076_821029044762314_1946210584177410048_o_zps sduxbmbo.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/36490076_821029044762314_1946210584177410048_o_zps sduxbmbo.jpg.html)

[Aragorn]

So when are wrenches going to be available?

[Duffy]

They were done, but there was a single line/tool mark, which prompted us to refinish all of them. Should be couple of weeks [BD]

[Duffy]

JCW (Joint Castle nut Wrench) is shipping :P http://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/JCW_p_129.html

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/JCW2_zpspbw1wble.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/JCW2_zpspbw1wble.jpg.html)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/jcw4_zpswg6jh7d4.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/jcw4_zpswg6jh7d4.jpg.html)

[Duffy]

4140 ESF will be in production soon. They will be Ionbond treated, black nitride would have made staking a challenge. 4140 ESF will be available in black or FDE, and rotation limited only. 4140 ESF will be the first end plate/sling adapter with side facing QD sockets to be made out of steel. Heretofore, all such designs, including our own 7075 ESF, have been made in aluminum. We like 4140 for its strength, but more importantly, because staking will be more secure.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/4140%20ESF_zpsgfoz5s4r.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/4140%20ESF_zpsgfoz5s4r.jpg.html)

[Aragorn]

That looks good. I like the new placement of the logo as well.

[Duffy]

It's as small as can be machine engraved, we must be the only company that wants it logo small, not bigger [BD]

[Duffy]

4140 ESF with DLC black or FDE is available :)

Here it is in DLC FDE, compared to other shades of FDE.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/4140FDEESF_zpsppcltxef.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/4140FDEESF_zpsppcltxef.jpg.html)

Heretofore, most, if not all end plates with side facing QD swivel sockets have been made in aluminum, including our own 7075 ESF. We don't call the 4140 ESF "heavy duty", as it would imply our 7075 ESF is light duty, which it assuredly isn't.

Whether an aluminum or steel end plate is in use, when the castle nut is staked, a wrench is usually needed to loosen the castle nut, 4140 ESF's displaced material will hold the staking better, it is also more durable than 7075.

There have been reports of aluminum QD swivel adapters (rail mounted) wearing out from hard use by the hard chargers in uniform. 4140 ESF is a companion product for our upcoming 4140 MLOK QD swivel mount. While the industry has been on the bandwagon to go lightweight, our focus has always been duty/combat ready. With 4140 ESF, you can see our direction hasn't changed.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/4140esffde_zpsxgozov8g.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/4140esffde_zpsxgozov8g.jpg.html)

If you're looking for light weight, 4140 ESF is not it. But if you want the toughest end plate with side facing (plus a rear facing) QD socket, there is nothing stronger than the 4140 ESF.

http://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ESF_p_126.html