Looking for an optic..

[Aragorn]

Well, I'm back in the market for an optic. I'm looking for something to do work with between 0-500 yards, something with ACOG, Aimpoint, or Nightforce level toughness, and preferably FFP. Fixed magnification is probably acceptable as long as it's not beyond 4x. Budget is probably going to be around 2k, and time frame is within the next few months.

I've been looking at an Elcan Specter OS. What else should I be looking at?

[FortTom]

Next few months and a 2K budget. Perfect post, because that opens up a whole lot of suggestions/recommendations. This will probably be a very long thread before it's over. Good luck and enjoy.[:D]

FT[:D]

[UWone77]

Man, so many options at the 2k price point.

[Stone]

Once I finally finish the build I am working on I need an optic for the last build I did, 18.5"/Noveske. I'm going with the Kahles K16i 1-6x24 3GR.

https://www.sportoptics.com/kahles-rifle-scope-k16i-10649.aspx

[Former11B]

Slippers said he has some serious issues with the QC of Kahles at the price point; had to send a couple back right out of the box for various problems

ACOGs: for that budget, you could get an ACOG with an RMR piggyback. I’ve got the TA11J (3.5x35mm with crosshair). The TA11 has the most forgiving eye relief out of all of them but the TA31 is lighter and 4x32. The models with the fiber optics are my favorite...I don’t like the ones without it

NF makes a 1-4 variable and I’ve seen Trijicon’s 1-4 Accupower on sale recently for $575 somewhere.

So many options really, gotta narrow it down for us

[fledge]

Assuming you mean for 556/223.

Is this for large animals and man size targets at 500 or to hit a squirrel in the middle of its lucky clover shoulder tattoo?

[Aragorn]

Yeah for 5.56

The 500 yard targets at the range I go to are 8" (I think) plates. I was able to reliably hit them with a Trijicon Accupower 1-4x I just sold. I needed the cash and promised myself I'd step it up from there once funds come back in.

I've got time behind a number of ACOGs and like them, which is what turned me on to the idea of the Specter OS. I don't really care for piggybacked optics though. Also open to recommendations on good variables, be it a 1-4x or 1-8x or a 2.5-10x or whatever. I just want it to be fast up close and clear further out, with a good reticle, and tough. Tough enough to survive the rifle being dropped on it. FFP is preferred. Basically I'm just looking for a solid close to medium distance general purpose optic.

Sounds like Kahles are already ruled out.

[BoilerUp]

The Trijicon Accupower 1-8x28 seems worth consideration for what you are looking for.

[Former11B]

Yeah for 5.56

The 500 yard targets at the range I go to are 8" (I think) plates. I was able to reliably hit them with a Trijicon Accupower 1-4x I just sold. I needed the cash and promised myself I'd step it up from there once funds come back in.

I've got time behind a number of ACOGs and like them, which is what turned me on to the idea of the Specter OS. I don't really care for piggybacked optics though. Also open to recommendations on good variables, be it a 1-4x or 1-8x or a 2.5-10x or whatever. I just want it to be fast up close and clear further out, with a good reticle, and tough. Tough enough to survive the rifle being dropped on it. FFP is preferred. Basically I'm just looking for a solid close to medium distance general purpose optic.

Sounds like Kahles are already ruled out.

My rifle took a fall onto the concrete floor from the top of my car’s trunk lid. To this day, I can’t figure out what happened, based on how the rifle was on the trunk (laying on its side, and I even wiggled it to make sure it was not going anywhere). It landed on the concrete muzzle down like a javelin, then fell over landing on the ACOG. The protective metal piece that surrounds the fiber optic duh into the concrete, protected the fiber optic, and only lost some anodizing in the process. They’re definitely tough enough for any job

[Jerry R]

I really like my US Optics SR-8C, but it is discontinued and SFP. They now have a 1-6 in the $1,500 range, but also SFP. Seems to be a pretty rugged scope, but I don't run anything hard these days (including myself [BD])

[gatordev]

With your budget and what you're trying to do, I'd take a serious look at the NX-8. Not sure if you want a BDC or not. If you do, then disregard. Otherwise, they seem to be doing lots of good work and are very lightweight for what they are. I watched someone run one today in the rain, up close and out to 200y, and it worked really well for him (this is the second month I've watched him run it). It blows the doors off the Trijicon's 1-8, although it also costs more. Otherwise, it's meeting your other requirements. And you could always throw a T-1 on a 45* mount if you wanted something to use up close.

[Aragorn]

Gator didn't you post up a review on one or a couple of those? I did a search but couldn't turn it up.

[BoilerUp]

Gator didn't you post up a review on one or a couple of those? I did a search but couldn't turn it up.

you thinking of this thread?

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?10829-Ongoing-NF-1-8-ATACR-F1-thoughts&highlight=

[gatordev]

As BoilerUp linked, mine is the ATACR. For what you're talking about (and for a lot of applications), the NX8 seems to fit the bill for less price.

[Former11B]

The only thing that really really turns me off of Trijicon’s 1-8x is the weight

[Aragorn]

Yeah that was the one. So what's the real difference between the Nx8 and the ATACR? Obviously the size/weight and reticle... but why not just have offered the reticle in the Nx8? Why the size and weight difference?

Looking hard at the NF's now, along with the Elcan and ACOG's.

Also, are the new NF scopes really made in Japan??

[Slippers]

Yeah that was the one. So what's the real difference between the Nx8 and the ATACR? Obviously the size/weight and reticle... but why not just have offered the reticle in the Nx8? Why the size and weight difference?

Looking hard at the NF's now, along with the Elcan and ACOG's.

Also, are the new NF scopes really made in Japan??

Atacr has much more generous eye box and superior glass. Made in Idaho. Some people claim their glass is produced at LOW in Japan.

[gatordev]

Some additional thoughts on the ACOG vs Elcan side of things, since you still have interest in both...

The weight of the Elcan is significantly more than the ACOG. How much that affects your decision is up to you, but at least the weight of the optic is near or behind the CG of the rifle, so handing isn't really that different, just shear weight. Besides weight, and given your budget (which is generous), AND your lack of interest in a piggy-back RDS, I'm not sure why you would pick the ACOG (and for this example, I'm talking the standard 4x32 versions).

The Elcan eyebox is more generous, it does both red dot and 4x and the dot is day-light bright, it uses the same basic reticle for distance (ie, a BDC) and it's as tough as the ACOG. I will say that I preferred putting the Elcan on a riser to use the dot/1x, as it made it more comfortable for my physical build when shooting. If you did put a RDS on top, then that wouldn't be necessary, and I took mine off a riser when I started shooting it with the RDS on top.

I really like the idea of the ACOG, but I gave up on mine and threw it in the safe after getting whacked in the eyebrow so many times when shooting it from positions other than a bench.

I think the good news is you've got lots of good options with that budget.

[Aragorn]

Atacr has much more generous eye box and superior glass. Made in Idaho. Some people claim their glass is produced at LOW in Japan.

Interesting what you say about the eye box. The literature says the Nx8 has 3.75" of eye relief and the ATACR has 3.74". I'm probably misunderstanding something though. I saw the ATACR was also about another 1k in price. Whoa...

Thanks for the insight on the Elcan vs ACOG Gator. I was more leaning that way, and kinda more towards the fixed 4x OS than the heavier 1-4x DR. Still unsure on that. At this moment it's kinda between the Elcan and the NF.

[gatordev]

I think it's less about eye relief and more about how forgiving the left-right/up down position of the eye in relation to the centerline of the optic. Just to use a set of extreme examples, you can take a NF 2.5-10x24 and move your eye left and right and you'll lose the reticle and image (scope shadow) very quickly. Compare that to a Vortex 1-6 Razor and move right and left and the dot and part of the image will still be there. Obviously this not a 1 for 1 comparison of scopes, but just using them as examples of how a bigger eye-box can be helpful, even if eye relief is close to the same.

[Aragorn]

Ah that clears that up. Thank you!

[Slippers]

Correct, eye box is not the same as eye relief.

[Aragorn]

Ok so here's where I'm at right now. The NF Nx8, or an Elcan Spectre OS (the fixed 4x) with the possibility of mounting an offset RMR.

Now, about 3 forevers ago I used to have a NF 1-4 NXS. I remember it having a somewhat significant fishbowl effect and was not a true 1x like the Accupower I recently sold. Do the new Nx8's still have the fishbowl effect? Is 1x true 1x?

As for running on offset red dot I'm looking for opinions here as well. I've done it with offset irons, but never with a red dot. I thought the offset irons were ok, but ended up eventually selling them as well. Is the red dot significantly better? I'd think it should be, otherwise we wouldn't be using them on TOP of the guns instead of irons, right?

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If you were good with offset irons you should be real good with an offset red dot.

Never cared for offset but I didn't take much time to practice. I did mount a Burris FF3 atop a railed scope ring and found that quite fast. Just slightly rotate my noggin back and the red dot was right there.

Interesting vid. In this scenario, using a 1-4x scope and manually changing magnification from 4x to 1x was faster than 4x scope and offset red dot. Starts at 2:54. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzYyXlHIVlo

5426

[gatordev]

Ok so here's where I'm at right now. The NF Nx8, or an Elcan Spectre OS (the fixed 4x) with the possibility of mounting an offset RMR.

Now, about 3 forevers ago I used to have a NF 1-4 NXS. I remember it having a somewhat significant fishbowl effect and was not a true 1x like the Accupower I recently sold. Do the new Nx8's still have the fishbowl effect? Is 1x true 1x?

As for running on offset red dot I'm looking for opinions here as well. I've done it with offset irons, but never with a red dot. I thought the offset irons were ok, but ended up eventually selling them as well. Is the red dot significantly better? I'd think it should be, otherwise we wouldn't be using them on TOP of the guns instead of irons, right?

First up, I've been running my Mini-Recce with a NF 2.5-10x24 and a T-1 in a Larue off-set for a while now. I don't have the numbers anymore, but I was finding that as long as I knew I was going to need to rotate the rifle a bit, the off-set was almost as fast as a nearly identically configured carbine with just a T-1 on top. I've also run the Mini-Recce in some local scoped-rifle competitions (generally 200y and in with an occasional 400y shot) and found transitioning from the NF in some low-power setting to the off-set was very smooth. I like having it off the rail (like the Larue or KAC versions) as opposed to off the scope tube or off the ring as those latter setups put it too high to be comfortable.

As for the fishbowl...I've only looked through the NX8 twice now for a brief period. Up close, I didn't notice any distortion. I forgot to look for it at distance. I will say that I do see just a small, small bit of edge distortion on my ATACR 1-8 when I'm focusing on the image quality. Actually shooting it though, it was unnoticeable. The guy who has the NX8 I've been fondling also has an ATACR, and other than the eyebox, he says he can't otherwise see a difference between the two. I don't know that I completely believe that, but it does speak highly of the NX8.

[tact]

From ACOGs and Browes, I have moved to the Razor HD II-E, as I wasn’t a fan of the NF reticle still.

[Ordnance]

Atacr has much more generous eye box and superior glass. Made in Idaho. Some people claim their glass is produced at LOW in Japan.

Slippers every optics manufacturer employs one or all of a handful of premium glass manufacturers around the world to shape and make their glass to desired specs.

[Ordnance]

Accupower are overpriced and under-performing. Kahles has had some issues that they're working to overcome. USO is alright, but I've had issues with their glass not being all that great. Elcan and ACOGs work out to 500, but the thing is, they're not the most ideal tool for that job if you're wanting real precision. With your budget, and wanting a FFP, the NX8 is really the most ideal choice. If you have the extra cash, the ATACR glass is nothing short of impressive. I've used the 7-35 out to over a mile, and the resolution and clarity was absolutely worth every penny.

[Joelski]

Good explanation of the difference between the NX8 and ATACR:


https://youtu.be/-dtKeVn_HaY

Sounds like the ATACR, being a slightly bigger boned scope might be a little better suited to a heavier recoil impulse. That ED glass isn't hurting anything. A friend of mine just got a 4x-16x and you can see great, plus the guy that demo'd it actually threw the scope and mount about 30' and put it back on the rifle and it shot a quarter sized group at 100 yards. I was amazed he didn't trash his shoulder as that thing is a Bertha!

[Ordnance]

That ED glass isn't hurting anything.

I actually assist in the setup and ROing of the NF ELR match out in Wyoming. I'm also a huge Vortex fan because I like the people and the company. That said... watching trace, splash, and impacts at a mile through the ATACR compared to the Gen 2 Razors, or any other glass on the line, the ATACR takes it hands down. NF really hit it out of the park with the 7-35, and we're seeing a lot of guys jump into that scope.

[Aragorn]

Thanks for all the info and videos gents. Leaning pretty heavily towards the Nx8 now, but it'll still be another month or two before I can purchase. Maybe I'll get lucky and Scalarworks will have released their scope mount by then.