New GAU-5A Aircrew Self Defense Weapon

[MoxyDave]

Ran across this article today about the Air Force's new pilot survival rifle. Anyone have one or see one in the wild? Looks like an interesting design with a unique detachable barrel system.

GAU-5A Aircrew Self Defense Weapon (https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/06/28/the-air-force-is-arming-pilots-with-a-longer-range-stand-off-rifle-to-use-if-theyre-ever-shot-down/)

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[UWone77]

Interesting. Surprised they didn't use a FSB and a more robust rear sight than flip ups. Then again I realize there are size constrants. 120 rounds behind enemy lines doesn't give me warm fuzzies either.

[gatordev]

120 rounds should be more than enough for what this would be used for. Trying to figure out how to carry 4 mags quietly would be the bigger issue. The folks that would be "using" this wouldn't be assaulting anything. It's more about hiding and waiting until the CSAR assets show up for recovery. That said, this would obviously be better than just having a M9/M11.

I think the bigger question that has come up in discussion with others is why did this become a thing? A rhetorical question, but it's interesting this got funding.

[Aragorn]

Furniture aside, this is cool.

If something like this hit the civilian side it would make for a sweet travel gun.

[Aragorn]

Furniture aside, this is cool.

If something like this hit the civilian side it would make for a sweet travel gun.


Well ok then, apparently this can be had.

http://cryhavoctac.com/qrb-kit.html

[UWone77]

120 rounds should be more than enough for what this would be used for. Trying to figure out how to carry 4 mags quietly would be the bigger issue. The folks that would be "using" this wouldn't be assaulting anything. It's more about hiding and waiting until the CSAR assets show up for recovery. That said, this would obviously be better than just having a M9/M11.

I think the bigger question that has come up in discussion with others is why did this become a thing? A rhetorical question, but it's interesting this got funding.

I didn't think they were going for a ground assault, but 120 rounds goes fast if you're solo. I understand though, you can't carry a full load and still pilot a plane, eject ect. But you're right, anything is better than a pistol.

Wasn't there a time where pilots were issued MP5's ?

[PJD642]

Well ok then, apparently this can be had.

http://cryhavoctac.com/qrb-kit.html

Interesting, but make me wonder about the longevity of the system.

[BoilerUp]

Wasn't there a time where pilots were issued MP5's ?

I think just the TF-160 bubbas

[Joelski]

Real pilots roll with full size M4's.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180707/b79e3719514bba87c3a8918486e0ddff.jpg

[BoilerUp]

Real pilots roll with full size M4's.

Cool shot. I didn't know they rolled like that but it makes sense. You have a lot more options when you aren't strapped to seat on a rail with explosives.

[gatordev]

I didn't think they were going for a ground assault, but 120 rounds goes fast if you're solo. I understand though, you can't carry a full load and still pilot a plane, eject ect. But you're right, anything is better than a pistol.

Wasn't there a time where pilots were issued MP5's ?

Typically, the plan would be to expend zero rounds since you are only one (or maybe two) guys. It's all about disappearing until help arrives and then moving to that point where help is. There are a couple of cases in Vietnam where aviators engaged and killed/wounded enemy personnel, but it was rare and I believe both cases were on the way to extraction. There was another case of a Marine Harrier pilot in GW1 running away from bad guys who were converging on his touchdown site and he had his M9 drawn. His story is documented in the old Wings show on Discovery Channel and he was a CO of mine many years ago. I can't remember if he actually returned fire, but as I recall, he was running towards a group of Marine grunts who were providing covering fire.

But the single biggest issue is training. I don't know how well the AF trains their pilots, but on the Navy side (at least on the Active Component side), the NCEA is pitifully small and it's typically only 50 rounds before deployment and that's it.


I think just the TF-160 bubbas

That's all I'm aware of, and that was back in the day. I'm pretty sure everyone runs M4s now. The Navy overland guys have M4s in their helos as well. I was never an overland guy, so all we had was M11s.

[RobertTheTexan]

I was in Army fixed wing aviation (MI) for some years. We had M9’s and a basic load. But had no rifles whatsoever. Our Martin Baker MK5 ejection seats really could not accommodate anything beyond what you could wear secured to you vest. Nor would you want something hanging off of you while you pull I think 15-20 G’s (+/-) on ejection. Obviously rotor heads are different and have space to secure a rifle.
Gator is right, why we spent much more time on E&E than training on engaging the enemy after ejection. A whooooooooole lot more emphasis on SERE. That said I’d prefer to have a carbine or SBR of some time o. The ground than I would just an M9. For peace of mind if anything.


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[gatordev]

I was in Army fixed wing aviation (MI) for some years. We had M9’s and a basic load. But had no rifles whatsoever. Our Martin Baker MK5 ejection seats really could not accommodate anything beyond what you could wear secured to you vest. Nor would you want something hanging off of you while you pull I think 15-20 G’s (+/-) on ejection.

Interesting. I'm trying to figure out what the Army had that had ejection seats. Did you guys not have seat pans? My understanding that's where this new GAU-5 will live, so after ejection, it's able to be dropped from the seat on descent.

[RobertTheTexan]

Interesting. I'm trying to figure out what the Army had that had ejection seats. Did you guys not have seat pans? My understanding that's where this new GAU-5 will live, so after ejection, it's able to be dropped from the seat on descent.

Yep, the Martin Baker Mk5 had a seat pan that separated from the seat after ejection, based on your altitude. After seat separation, you manually deploy it from your ass prior to PLF, with a 50’ lanyard. Those kits were geographic dependent. Over water kits, cold kits, etc. however I’m not 100% sure an upper, even with a 10.5” barrel would have fit In our seat pans, regardless it would have to be broken down. That’s not an issue really, as it was understood you’d likely need to take your kit and seek cover & concealment before breaking it out.
Yeah that usual,y gets people. Army aircraft with an ejection seat....
OV-1D Mohawk. Fully aerobatic surveillance aircraft.


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[BoilerUp]

Yeah that usual,y gets people. Army aircraft with an ejection seat....
OV-1D Mohawk. Fully aerobatic surveillance aircraft.


The OV-10 Bronco also had ejection seats.

The Mohawk looks like it would have been a lot of fun to fly. There are a few of them in civilian hands.

[Former11B]

Three round burst sucks. Why not just full auto?

Anyhow, I figured they’d offer them a suppressor as well.

[RobertTheTexan]

The OV-10 Bronco also had ejection seats.

The Mohawk looks like it would have been a lot of fun to fly. There are a few of them in civilian hands.

It was a lot of fun. I was a right seater but got a good amount of stick time on our dual stick birds. Did plenty of loops, split S’s, aileron rolls, 3 1/2g diving spirals Plus just flying around. I also was our photo mission trainer so that was a lot of fun, lower level work, a lot of map work on pin point targets.. everything from mission planning forward. Was a great job[emoji41][emoji41]


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[gatordev]

OV-1D Mohawk.

I was guessing that that might have been what it was. I just wasn't sure if it had a seat in it. Thanks.