Please recommend a good non WML flashlight... [Archive]

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alamo5000

20 July 2018, 23:37

I recently had a thread about a weapons mounted pistol light. Thanks to everyone who contributed and special thanks to Slippers as well. Now I am the proud owner of a Surefire pistol light. I am highly pleased so far. Not much use or testing yet but so far so good.

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With this thread though it's the same concept only for a NON Weapon Mounted Light. Below I will tell you how I plan to use it so that you can see what my intended purpose is. After that any recommendations will be highly considered and applied accordingly.

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I will be carrying this light on my person as an EDC option. That said my real estate is limited and I don't want to be like batman walking around with heavy crap hanging off everywhere. During the day I might not carry it at all, but if I know I will be out near or after dark I want an easy way to carry it. I can leave it in the car if I want or wear it as needed.

As of right now I carry the following: Right front pocket keys, Left front pocket wallet, pistol (appendix carry now), spare mag (horizontal belt mount--left side), and a pocket knife (DPX Hest) (usually right front pocket). I don't like carrying stuff in my back pockets.

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Like was pointed out in the other thread if you have a WML you can't openly draw your weapon in public just to use the light...hence the plain flashlight. Unlike my WML which is for around he house, this one is for comfort and ease of carry (EDC) out and about.

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I like horsepower. I want it bright enough, but not a huge light. The bezzle(?) (new word for me) can't be huge because it will become uncomfortable to carry I think.

I don't want it too long because it might wind up in my pocket or something depending on how I wind up carrying it. It may need a pocket clip (maybe) or some form of horizontal holster like my spare mag has.

The controls ideally will have a momentary button and a twist for full on. Anything other than that, like strobes and stuff is too complicated for my use.

Ideally the momentary button on back will be slightly recessed. I don't want to be accidentally discharging the light all the time.

I don't think a pen light is enough for my use. I can get those for cheap, but I a looking for a good quality light with more power even if they are $150-$200 bucks or whatever.

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My primary use won't be room clearing or whatever, but more like lighting up my own car in a dark parking lot, scanning the area such as a tree line, finding keys that somebody lost on the grass, scanning the area to see if people are around or any other 10,000 sundry uses of a flashlight.

It will be used in both rural and urban settings. My Arisaka SBR light can throw a good bit of light out 75 to 100 yards out. This is a good thing.

Bonus points for suggestions for how to most comfortably carry it will be appreciated. My first inclination is for a clip on or horizontal holster on my right side. Currently that real estate is unused. A good other option would be left front pocket provided it's not jamming me in the leg when I walk or sit.

Thanks!!

Slippers

21 July 2018, 01:02

SINNER

21 July 2018, 02:21

Elzetta.

ChattanoogaPhil

21 July 2018, 07:24

My EDC is for carrying every day, all day. For the past two years it's been a Surefire Titan Plus. Fits nicely and unnoticed in the watch pocket of blue jeans. The lower settings of 15 and 75 lumens provide illumination for 99% of my Average Joe needs (and many of those needs turn up during daylight hours inside). Capable of 300 lumens if needed for a brief period. I'm a AAA devote.

If you're considering something as large as a 2 x CR123, I keep in my truck a Malkoff MD2. Powered by 18650, 400 lumen to sub-lumen with Gene's bezel switch, and built bombproof. If there's a better built, more versatile, simpler to operate and reliable light in it's class I'm unaware of it. $150. It fits most all your listed criteria. If while out and about I thought I might need a more substantial light than the Titan I'd just clip the MD2 and go. Never have. And that's the story with larger lights; they are awesome but seldom EDC outside of professional needs. Gene makes some nice 1 x AA and 1 x CR123 lights. I have a Malkoff AA MDC HA. Sub-lumen to 115 lumen. Very nice.

Over at CandlePower in the "Good Deals" section of the forum, someone got ahold of 800 new units of the previous version Surefire G2X Pro. 2 x CR123 15/320 lumen. $36. About all the flashlight Average Joe would ever need in both performance and reliability. I bought one a few years ago for the wife's backpack. My neighbor is a UPS driver and has been using a G2X Pro for years at work, particularly when the days are short during winter. He's told me how impressed he's been with reliability having dropped it many times, rolled out of the truck... on and on.

I've got several Surefire, Malkoff and Streamlight handheld. The two that are used the most are the Titan Plus (smallest) because it's always in my pocket when I need it. The other is a Streamlight Stinger DS HPL (biggest) because it's always hanging on the wall fully charged by the back door when I need it for going outside at night. Location location location. All my other bang-zoom 'tactical' flashlights remain busy self-discharging.

https://i.imgur.com/Cydzlx1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jtwj7SG.jpg

UWone77

21 July 2018, 09:51

I'm a huge Surefire Fan, but... EDC, and on my uniform daily as a maplight/backuplight is a Malkoff MDC HA

Hard Anodized Black MDC (Malkoff Daily Carry) 115 Lumen, 1AA Flashlight. Modes are LowLow-Low-High. Perfect when I need barely any illumination to look at something without blinding me, and it runs on cheaper AA batteries. It's not a 1000 lumen retina melter... but it does what I need it to do.

https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/products/mdc-ha-1aa-flashlight

5600

Joelski

21 July 2018, 10:55

Chronology of handlights: Maglite 6D back in the day, Fenix TK16L 1x 18650R, Indeo Lumipower 1x CR123. The Lumi is 500 lumens but super small, the TK is 1k lumens and strong enough for pretty much anything. Not pictured is a Pelican Super Saberlite 3x C I keep on my scene bag.

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af93/Joelski144/EDC%20Gear/20161126_225341_zpsdaa50735.jpg~original

Jerry R

21 July 2018, 11:22

OLight SR1 Turbo S Version - 900 lumens - tailcap USB rechargeable - or 1 CR123A - tiny - belt clip, or remove it and drop it in your pocket ... mine shown below, and a link to purchase at Amazon.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3684&d=1497727315

https://www.amazon.com/Turbo-Version-Olight-Rechargeable-Flashlight/dp/B01LDG87ZE/ref=sr_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1532197129&sr=1-5&keywords=olight

SINNER

21 July 2018, 13:18

I liked the Olight. The magnetic tail cap was pretty handy in a mechanical room or in a pump vault. Unfortunately they suffer from not liking water. When mine got wet it crackled and popped like bacon cooking for 30 seconds and never lit again.

I gave the replacement to my Father in law and it’s worked well for him in a less demanding role.

MoxyDave

21 July 2018, 14:01

I just picked up a new EDC light from Zebralight. I've used their headlamps for many years. The user interface is a bit more complicated than others, but easy enough once you get used to it. You could also program it to be super simple with just 1 mode if you like that option.

I've bought probably 30 flashlights since the LED revolution began, and this is cream of the crop so far:

Zebralight SC64w 18650 XHP35 Neutral White Flashlight (http://www.zebralight.com/SC64w-18650-XHP35-Neutral-White-Flashlight_p_212.html)

If you prefer the AA format:

Zebralight SC53w AA Neutral White Flashlight (http://www.zebralight.com/SC53w-AA-Neutral-White-Flashlight_p_202.html)

The pocket clip is great and affords unobtrusive, painless carry. The amount of light you can get from a pocket light nowadays is truly astounding.

I also carry a simple AAA light on my keychain. This is my most-used light:

Fenix E05 AAA LED Flashlight (https://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-e05-led-flashlight-2014-edt/)

I've quit using Amazon for high-end stuff simply because there are so many counterfeits, but you can find them there as well.

All of these are super pocket-friendly, durable, waterproof and damn near unbreakable. I have been using them a lot for many years. My Zebralight headlamp has been on countless camping trips and long-distance mountain bike rides. It's survived rain, snow, extended submersion, lots of drops from 3-4 feet onto concrete and asphalt, you name it. Never a problem.

I'm not super concerned with the "tint" of the light, but I have noticed these newer lights are far more pleasing to the eye. The Zebralight in particular has a very "incandescent" warm tint unlike many of the older LED lights that have a really green or blue cast.

I quit worrying some time ago about "tactical" this and that, momentary vs not, super blinding weapon-wannabe nonsense that is so common in this community. I use the light all the time for trivial shit, and if I absolutely had to try and blind an attacker, there is a light on my gun for that.

Hope this helps!

alamo5000

21 July 2018, 21:17

Surefire edcl1 or 2 are my current favorites. Slim, and with a gas pedal tailcap where you slightly press for low and press a little harder for 500 or 1200 lumens (1 cell vs 2 cell). Has a pocket clip, and works with the thyrm loop if you like those.

That sounds like a good contender. I like that kind of simple functionality. Is it like a click switch or more like a pressure switch? All that 'click twice real fast to change to this mode or that' meh... but if it's just additional pressure that would be awesome.

I will look at the specs. I wonder if it has a twist to always on thing too? That's not absolutely needed (the twist) but it could be kind of nice I guess. I will have to think about it a little.

I googled 'thyrum loop' and I guess that's just a finger loop... I am not sure about that just yet, but I am glad you mentioned it.

Elzetta.

Never heard of them (never heard of a lot of stuff) but I will check out their lights for sure.

My EDC is for carrying every day, all day. For the past two years it's been a Surefire Titan Plus.

Fits nicely and unnoticed in the watch pocket of blue jeans.

I'm a AAA devote.

If you're considering something as large as a 2 x CR123, I keep in my truck a Malkoff MD2.

with Gene's bezel switch

that's the story with larger lights; they are awesome but seldom EDC outside of professional needs.

The two that are used the most are the Titan Plus (smallest) because it's always in my pocket when I need it. The other is a Streamlight Stinger DS HPL (biggest) because it's always hanging on the wall fully charged by the back door when I need it for going outside at night. Location location location. All my other bang-zoom 'tactical' flashlights remain busy self-discharging.

I will check out the Titan Plus for sure.

I am sort of beach bummish in my attire. I go relaxed if ever given the opportunity. That said I've had so many suit and tie with a coat jobs... but in my day to day stuff I naturally dress for the seasons (of Texas). In summer if you ever see me NOT in shorts it means either someone died or is getting married. Shorts sandals and light weight wicking shirts are my main summer attire. It was 105 degrees and humid here today. Summer is just starting.

In winter I will wear jeans usually and shorts on nice days. But honestly when it's colder I have many more carry options because of simply more clothes. That said comfort is king, well right behind reliability. I am of the school that if you wear a gun or holster or anything that hurts, pokes, rubs, jabs, etc it will deter you from carrying.

I am not a devotee of anything yet but I am not against the CR123A batteries. That said I have two lights that run those now so might has well have a third one and keep it standard. This is definitely a consideration. I could buy say 8 rechargeable batteries so I always have spares for each gun without having to keep buying batteries.

The best light is the one you have with you at the time. I used to have a giant D cell sucking Maglite in my truck and it barely ever got used and to be honest it wasn't even very bright. Currently my most used flashlight is a tiny little key ring light that is on my key chain for the very reasons you mentioned. I have it therefore I use it.

PS. I have no idea who Gene is or what a bezel switch is.

I'm a huge Surefire Fan, but... EDC, and on my uniform daily as a maplight/backuplight is a Malkoff MDC HA

Hard Anodized Black MDC (Malkoff Daily Carry) 115 Lumen, 1AA Flashlight. Modes are LowLow-Low-High. Perfect when I need barely any illumination to look at something without blinding me, and it runs on cheaper AA batteries. It's not a 1000 lumen retina melter... but it does what I need it to do.

LOL! Retina melter! HAAA!!

You do bring up very important stuff I hadn't thought about. Having and using a low power setting will probably be very handy. If I am riding in the passenger's seat and somebody drops something under the seat emitting a 1,200 lumen blinder while cruising down the freeway might not be good. I imagine it would get pretty hot too. Being able to give somebody a sunburn is not really the idea.

After I read your comment I took my new 300X outside and whatever lumens that is is about right for the high end. It throws light really well, just like the Arisaka light. That's plenty. My idea is on the high end to be able to scan or scope out a parking lot or light up a car or something to avoid a problem rather than try to find one. Also if I need to scan the tree line or any other number of things like that it's more than enough.

The specs said the pistol light I have now is 600 lumens and it has a pretty broad spill so I think that's about the top end of what I would want depending on a few other things. I think that at least gives me a ballpark idea of what to compare. Run time is also an important factor.

Chronology of handlights: Maglite 6D back in the day, Fenix TK16L 1x 18650R, Indeo Lumipower 1x CR123. The Lumi is 500 lumens but super small, the TK is 1k lumens and strong enough for pretty much anything. Not pictured is a Pelican Super Saberlite 3x C I keep on my scene bag.

As for right now I am leaning towards a single CR123 battery light if for nothing else to have all my light batteries be standard. Like I was saying... I used to have a big maglite that I didn't like or use. If I needed to beat someone into submission maybe but barring that... a small but powerful (enough) light is the ticket.

Another thing I didn't mention is that I live in hurricane territory. Living in the country during storms the power goes out CONSTANTLY. This light I am talking about getting will become part of my EDC but also part of my emergency preparedness kit. And by emergency preparedness I mean I can grab the light and make it to the bathroom during a blackout without kicking a coffee table. It's very practical to have one good small light that I keep up with rather than 20 dollar store cheap crappy ones with dead batteries that no one can seem to find when they are needed.

OLight SR1 Turbo S Version - 900 lumens - tailcap USB rechargeable - or 1 CR123A - tiny - belt clip, or remove it and drop it in your pocket ... mine shown below

That might be a good option for sure. I am going to put it on my list of things to be compared. The rechargeable batteries though, yeah, I am definitely going to go that route.

I liked the Olight. The magnetic tail cap was pretty handy in a mechanical room or in a pump vault. Unfortunately they suffer from not liking water. When mine got wet it crackled and popped like bacon cooking for 30 seconds and never lit again.

I gave the replacement to my Father in law and it’s worked well for him in a less demanding role.

Oooooh!!! Good point! VERY good point!

I wonder how these lights all do in wet/damp/rainy (and by raining I mean flood) situations? When it rains 18 inches in a day at your house this does become an issue. A certain level of water resistance is a very good idea and worth paying extra money for IMO.

I just picked up a new EDC light from Zebralight. I've used their headlamps for many years. The user interface is a bit more complicated than others, but easy enough once you get used to it. You could also program it to be super simple with just 1 mode if you like that option.

I've bought probably 30 flashlights since the LED revolution began

The pocket clip is great and affords unobtrusive, painless carry. The amount of light you can get from a pocket light nowadays is truly astounding.

All of these are super pocket-friendly, durable, waterproof and damn near unbreakable. I have been using them a lot for many years. My Zebralight headlamp has been on countless camping trips and long-distance mountain bike rides. It's survived rain, snow, extended submersion, lots of drops from 3-4 feet onto concrete and asphalt, you name it. Never a problem.

I'm not super concerned with the "tint" of the light, but I have noticed these newer lights are far more pleasing to the eye. The Zebralight in particular has a very "incandescent" warm tint unlike many of the older LED lights that have a really green or blue cast.

I quit worrying some time ago about "tactical" this and that, momentary vs not, super blinding weapon-wannabe nonsense that is so common in this community. I use the light all the time for trivial shit, and if I absolutely had to try and blind an attacker, there is a light on my gun for that.

Hope this helps!

If I ever need to go coal mining I will remember your post! LOL! [:D]

You are right though... the improvements in lights has been great! It's just like other stuff I see... I go "I need a flashlight" and now there is all kinds of cool options to account for.

My tactical light will probably help me find the toilet during a blackout. Pretty ninja isn't it?[BD] Overall though it will be a practical investment.

I've also never heard of zebra lights. I will look them over as well and make a comparison.

As far as the 'tint' goes, I don't know what the 'tint' is for the Surefire I have or the Arisaka. Maybe somebody can clue me in. I don't want an irritating colored light. The idea is for me to see what I'm doing.

My keychain light is by far my most used light, but I will need to replace it pretty soon too because it's getting worn out. For a $4 key chain it has more than paid for itself. I am constantly using it because it's THERE. That's what kind of role I want a 'bigger' light to have as well. Basically when I need a light I want the damn thing in my pocket, and preferably it will be comfortable.

All the comments are definitely helping. This is great. Getting tons of ideas. A little pen light might not be the best for me because I'm not trying to read people's driver's licenses at night or generally reading documents and I don't know if it's capable of throwing light 75 or 100 yards like I want.

On the flip side I hope I don't need to subdue anyone so this concept of blinding a suspect--- I will leave that to the PoPo for the most part. There might be a rare exception to that but not much. If it gets down to that bad they should probably fear the muzzle of the gun more than the light.

I definitely have a lot to think about to narrow the choices down.

I also want to replace my keychain light too. (It's a throw away kind---but I've been using it for several years already)

Joelski

22 July 2018, 08:14

Battery Junction is pretty much the go-to for the EDC crowd. Since you say you want a EDC handlight in 123, here's the best rated ones. Go apeshit, bro. [:D]

https://www.batteryjunction.com/flashlight-edc.html#/?Section=flashlight-edc&Catalogbattbatterysize=CR123A&search_return=all&Catalogpdrating=5+Star

Aragorn

22 July 2018, 09:02

I was going to read your post Alamo but decided to read the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy instead. It took less time.

ChattanoogaPhil

22 July 2018, 10:43

PS. I have no idea who Gene is or what a bezel switch is.

I apologize. Gene is Gene Malkoff of Malkoff Devices. He makes flashlights, parts and conversions. Reputation among flashaholoics for being among the best of the best. Gene is a great guy. If you have any questions give him a ring and he'll likely tell you more than you ever wanted to know. [:D]

A bezel switch is an optional part that allows the Malkoff MD2 series flashlight to function in low mode. Think of it like a resistor. Say your MD2 is a 400 lumen single output light. Turn the head 1/8 turn and now you've got a single output 20 lumen flashlight. My MD2 has three output levels from I think 30 to around 400 lumens. Turn the head slightly and now I've got a three output flashlight from 20 lumen to sub-umen. Comes in handy when you don't want to lose your night vision by clicking the tailcap to 'Retina Melter' mode by mistake.

A flashlight junkie's playground.
https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com

Slippers

22 July 2018, 11:39

UWone77

22 July 2018, 11:43

Gene is a great guy. If you have any questions give him a ring and he'll likely tell you more than you ever wanted to know. [:D]

It's a good thing that long distance is basically free now.

I cringe to think what a phone bill between alamo and Gene would be. [:D][BD]

alamo5000

22 July 2018, 12:46

It's a good thing that long distance is basically free now.

I cringe to think what a phone bill between alamo and Gene would be. [:D][BD]

HAAHAA!!

Bird of a feather nerd out together! [:D]

You should see me geeking out on stuff that I make money on! LOL!

alamo5000

22 July 2018, 12:47

The edcl1 and 2 don't have click switches. You can go constant on at high or low by threading in the tailcap. Low occurs first, then keep going for high. Just like when you're pressing on it.

It's very intuitive and they aren't overly expensive.

That's perfect!!!

It's on the short list.

There is a lot of info to digest here. I am learning from all you guys.

alamo5000

22 July 2018, 12:54

I apologize. Gene is Gene Malkoff of Malkoff Devices. He makes flashlights, parts and conversions. Reputation among flashaholoics for being among the best of the best. Gene is a great guy. If you have any questions give him a ring and he'll likely tell you more than you ever wanted to know. [:D]

A bezel switch is an optional part that allows the Malkoff MD2 series flashlight to function in low mode. Think of it like a resistor. Say your MD2 is a 400 lumen single output light. Turn the head 1/8 turn and now you've got a single output 20 lumen flashlight. My MD2 has three output levels from I think 30 to around 400 lumens. Turn the head slightly and now I've got a three output flashlight from 20 lumen to sub-umen. Comes in handy when you don't want to lose your night vision by clicking the tail cap to 'Retina Melter' mode by mistake.

A flashlight junkie's playground.
https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com

That's awesome. Gene sounds like my kind of guy.

If it were not for nerds like us all the knuckle draggers would still be using giant D cell maglites that put out the same light as a birthday candle. [BD]

As for the multiple levels of out put I think that's a great idea. Instead of off or full blast having options in the middle sounds great and something I will have.

Honestly, and all joking aside I do learn a ton from you all. There are so many frickin' rabbit holes to go down though. It doesn't matter what it is... barrel material... we could spend 5 days going over just that. Optics...insane amount of stuff there. Muzzle devices... people could go on about that for days.

Flashlights is just one of a many different things.

alamo5000

22 July 2018, 13:00

I was going to read your post Alamo but decided to read the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy instead. It took less time.

You will come to appreciate my thorough geekness someday. LOL!

People like me can analyze little stuff to death if you let us. But at the end of the day who would you rather have working on your airplane? A perfectionist or bubba who hopes that his MacGuyver duct tape job holds up long enough so that he doesn't get blamed when there is an eventual crash?[BD]

mustangfreek

24 July 2018, 02:33

I was going to read your post Alamo but decided to read the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy instead. It took less time.

Lol...

Joelski

24 July 2018, 07:12

That's awesome. Gene sounds like my kind of guy.

If it were not for nerds like us all the knuckle draggers would still be using giant D cell maglites that put out the same light as a birthday candle. [BD]

As for the multiple levels of out put I think that's a great idea. Instead of off or full blast having options in the middle sounds great and something I will have.

Honestly, and all joking aside I do learn a ton from you all. There are so many frickin' rabbit holes to go down though. It doesn't matter what it is... barrel material... we could spend 5 days going over just that. Optics...insane amount of stuff there. Muzzle devices... people could go on about that for days.

Flashlights is just one of a many different things.This knuckle dragger has put out a few lights with his prized D cell maglite. [:)]

JGifford

24 July 2018, 20:57

Bag on it if you want, but I bought my girlfriend a S&W M&P branded light that runs on 2 CR123's and puts out 490 lumens per the label. I believe this output to be accurate. It has high (always up first), low (next), and strobe (worthless and last as it should be since they had to include it). The light appears to have similar workmanship as the Streamlite Protac series. I purchased tthis light for $24.77. I believe it was due to a mislabel on the rack, but they honored it as it legit was placed there, no empty spots where it "should have been", and no other of its kind where a customer obviously put it back incorrectly. Legit mislabel. Actual was close to $60.

That said, if I were paying list on everything...

This is the smallest/dimmest I'd go:
https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-88061-ProTac-Professional-Tactical/dp/B01G75P1SC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1532490893&sr=8-3&keywords=Streamlite&dpID=4127CQ4EsNL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
Then this: https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-88062-Professional-Tactical-Flashlight/dp/B06WD29DZ8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1532490893&sr=8-7&keywords=Streamlite
Then this:
https://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-88065-Professional-Flashlight-Rechargeable/dp/B06VTLLC13/ref=dp_ob_title_hi

Honestly, for a non-recoil involving environment, I love Streamlight.

If you just "have to have the best", then I am still in the Surefire camp, but you WILL pay for it, and the performance won't be much better than Streamlight, if any at all, until you begin throwing "beat it to hell" into the mix.

SINNER

25 July 2018, 20:44

I’m actually surprised at the amount of SureFire love on here. I’ve found they only last 8-12 months in a work environment. Tailcaps that are prone to failure of the membrane and fogging inside the lens have been an ongoing issue with my last few.

I’m going on my 3rd year pretty much using the same Elzetta every day. And other than the Cerakote it’s been flawless. A different level of quality than any other I’ve used.

5610

voodoo_man

26 July 2018, 05:23

It's 2018, if it doesn't charge via USB it's outdated.

alamo5000

26 July 2018, 05:24

This knuckle dragger has put out a few lights with his prized D cell maglite. [:)]

We can send you to Alaska to collect baby seal furs for us. LOL!

Other than that I have been extremely busy lately. No real chance to sort through my options or even really think about it too much at all.

Keep all the input rolling dudes. From what it sounds like I have several solid options out there that don't fall into the POS category.

alamo5000

26 July 2018, 05:25

It's 2018, if it doesn't charge via USB it's outdated.

Ohhhh. Yet another one to throw into the mix. Good! Good!

alamo5000

26 July 2018, 05:33

It's 2018, if it doesn't charge via USB it's outdated.

If I could get that in addition to the other stuff=Awesome.

That said I have an actual converter dual plug outlet in my car so I could like I said carry spares in the car to be charged as needed.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 06:22

Flashlights that see regular use all have rechargeable batteries, but no charge ports other than Streamlight Stinger wall charger contacts. The only light with a charge port is a Surefire Sidekick keychain light. Seems like it's the only one that usually doesn't have a fully charged battery. Go figure...

Surefire doesn't provide a cover for the port. What's up with that? I found micro covers at a place called Mouser Electronics. Unlike Hong Kong covers on e-bay, Mouser port covers stay in place... and that's an issue for a keychain light that gets knocked around a lot. Same remarkable performance as the Titan Plus with Maxvision. Since the battery isn't user replaceable and the Surefire warranty is only one year, I consider the Sidekick disposable. Kinda big. I can't think of many reasons to recommend it.

https://i.imgur.com/85zG9lg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nnTW4Lm.jpg

SINNER

26 July 2018, 06:53

Honestly I’ve been disappointed with the rechargeable batteries performance. Other than the initial lumens they just always seem to die fast and really suffer in the cold temps. Pretty poor recharge times just compound the issues.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 08:20

Depends on what batteries the light will accommodate.

My Malkoff MD2 will operate on standard CR123, rechargeable CR123 or rechargeable 18650. This runtime graph shows standard CR123 with superior runtimes compared to rechargeable CR123, but the 18650 rechargeable is far superior to standard CR123 runtimes.... still operating at 50% output while the CR123 is long dead.

https://i.imgur.com/8CqQSnp.jpg

A lot depends on the light and intended use, but comparing standard batteries to rechargeable is difficult unless you toss standard batteries in the garbage after every use. Otherwise, you've got a flashlight with only partial capacity batteries for next use, and the next... whereas the rechargeable can be fully charged and ready to go every day. Though, rechargeable capacity shrinks with repeated charging over time.

Tiran Plus runtimes.

This is Medium output that I use most all the time. Yes, the Lithium AAA (blue) operates at the same output for a few minutes longer than the rechargeable AAA (green), but after I used the flashlight for a bit I would then have a flashlight with inferior capacity for the remaining 80% of the life of the Lithium for following uses compared to rechargeable.

https://i.imgur.com/vV99D4z.png

SINNER

26 July 2018, 09:16

In real world use rechargeable batteries are a gimmick. I don’t have the time or inclination to recharge a battery every use. Some days I use my light 25 times and sometimes I won’t touch it for weeks. The rechargeables after extended down times are dying within minutes. Their long term storage is poor. I carry a single cell light and 3 CR123’s and have never needed anymore in a day. When I used the bored Elzetta with the 18650, more often than not the battery was exhausted within minutes of use. The longer it sat the faster it died. Realizing that recharging it when it was only partially discharged but already dimming did nothing but cause it to hold a charge less and less. I’d imagine their poor day to day performance is why reputable manufacturers still do not recommend the rechargeables in life critical situations.

gatordev

26 July 2018, 10:06

voodoo_man

26 July 2018, 10:16

If the intent is to have a light on your person most of the time, having charging capability isn't necessarily all that helpful. I don't live my life in a car with ready access to a charger. For the last 8 years, I've had a SF E-2DL-R2-D2 (or whatever the hell it's called) in my uniform and it would get used all the time, but never in a way it that would allow it to always be charged. If instead, I could just quickly put a new set of 123 batteries in and move on, it was far more effective.

If you operate in an environment where the light can sit next to you on the charger and all you have to do is grab it (kind of like handheld radios that sit in a charger), then I can see the value, but that wasn't something that every really presented itself as an option.

But you do sleep right? Charging a flashlight overnight isn't exactly hard.

I've tried rechargable batteries for flashlights all garbage.

My streamlight ds HL led is rechargeable I charge it in my car during day shift a few days ahead of night shift. Never had an issue.

I carried the protac hl usb for a while and I've not found any serious issues with it. It will out last a similar surefire light with standard cr123 batteries.
Only reason I switch to the EDCL2-T is because I wanted to use it for a review. It's already not that great of a light as the protac hl usb.

gatordev

26 July 2018, 10:38

But then I have to remember to grab it. I also have to remember to charge it, and if I end up not using it for a while, I may not know it's time to charge. My personal "kit," if you will, was set up so that everything was always in my flight gear and I could grab it and walk out the door (minus keys and wallet). For my next job, the requirement is to be gone in 10 minutes, even in the middle of the night. I just don't trust myself to have that mental ability to remember to grab it.

You have a system, and it works for you, so I get why you're saying what you're saying. I'm just arguing that rechargeable isn't necessarily THE definitive answer, as always, it's based on use-case.

UWone77

26 July 2018, 10:47

I find rechargeables are quite useful for patrol work. Mainly because I have a charger mounted in the car, and always have a backup light.

EDC, I like the AA batteries personally.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 12:03

Interesting inferior performance of Elzetta with whatever 18650 used.

The 18650 Keepower 3500 mAh Japanese made cell and protection circuit is the only 18650 Malkoff sells. Performance in my Malkoff MD2 after weeks of storage is consistent with runtime graphs posted. Doesn't suffer any significant parasitic drain as the inferior performance described with the Elzetta/18650. While I haven't measured it, I guess it would be consistent with generally expected 1-2% a month. Extreme cold can affect the performance of rechargeable, but the climate here in Tennessee is mild so that's not an issue.

There's a lot of different quality batteries sold, and not all flashlights digest them well. Surefire has suffered issues with their new "Dual Fuel" lights failing with other brand 18650 batteries. Surefire offered steep discounts to purchasers to replace other brand batteries with Surefire.

As far as daily carry for this Average Joe, rechargeable batteries aren't such an overly burdensome task as some might believe. My small Panasonic wall charger accomodates 4 eneloop pro AAA or AA batteries at a time. I use a small battery carrier and rotate from left to right as batteries are exchanged. When I get the the fourth/last charged battery I just slip the other four discharged batteries into the charger. That's it. I've never timed it, but to insert 4 batteries into the wall charger probably takes upwards of 5-10 seconds. Hey, I'm a busy guy in the "real world" :P. My nighttime (dog walk) rechargeable is a Streamlight Stinger DS HPL. It conveniently hangs in it's own wall charger cradle next to the back door where I grab it on my way out. Always fully charged and ready to go right where I need it. Perfect.

https://i.imgur.com/aMePcqM.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/d6dHHxf.jpg

voodoo_man

26 July 2018, 12:18

lol @ average joe / burdensome.

It's hard to plug your flashlight into your car charger when you are driving *once* every three weeks or so? You do it with your phone every single day probably?

It's simply something you need to think about doing and not be lazy about it. Not rocket surgery.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 12:26

You do it with your phone every single day probably?

You mean those gimmick rechargeable battery smartphones?

I refuse to buy another iPhone until they come out with the iPhone Alkaline. :P

voodoo_man

26 July 2018, 12:43

You mean those gimmick rechargeable battery smartphones?

I refuse to buy another iPhone until they come out with the iPhone Alkaline. :P

well there is your problem, android is your salvation...

SINNER

26 July 2018, 13:28

I’ve never seen a quality light with a USB port so are you guys using a stand alone charger or such light duty use the toys with USB’s are holding up?

gatordev

26 July 2018, 13:34

It's hard to plug your flashlight into your car charger when you are driving *once* every three weeks or so? You do it with your phone every single day probably?

It's simply something you need to think about doing and not be lazy about it. Not rocket surgery.

Again, not everyone's uses are the same. I don't live and die by my phone. When I come home, I may not touch it again until I leave. And even then, I may forget it (rare, but it happened just today for no reason I can explain). You have a solution that works for you. I have a solution that works for me. Mine just involves throwing a light into <insert mode of transportation> and not worrying about it while using conventional batteries.

lol @ average joe / burdensome.

Really? Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment, but please don't equate what I did to average joe.

Mildly Related Fun fact: on my last deployment, I was constantly harassed by the IT people because I would plug my issued Blackberry POS phone into the USB port of the computer (which is very much forbidden) because there weren't enough plugs in the room. That's how useless USB charging would have been to me during that timeframe.

Again, different uses for different people.

SINNER

26 July 2018, 13:43

I spent my battery budget putting up a fence. Walking a dog...LMAO That’s what those city people do with their reflective vests on.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 14:08

I spent my battery budget putting up a fence. Walking a dog...LMAO That’s what those city people do with their reflective vests on.

It's dark out here in the country with no street lights.

I’ve never seen a quality light with a USB port so are you guys using a stand alone charger or such light duty use the toys with USB’s are holding up?

Well... the light typically won't have a stand alone charger, that's the point. Using a standard charge cable, any powered USB port will charge the battery in the flashlight... computer, USB wall outlet charger, battery power pack, car charger....

voodoo_man

26 July 2018, 14:45

you can reference this post - http://www.vdmsr.com/2016/11/streamlight-protac-hl-usb.html - as to what I am referring to.

It has a micro USB plug and works just fine on a single charge, even for duty use.

If you go out of your way to not keep your tools working (that especially includes a charged phone) that completely your problem and no one else.

Not having a charged phone is like walking around with a pistol that only has half the magazine filled with ammo.

When you need to use your phone, it should work, and if you are somewhere you may need to use it for a prolonged period of time then you should be able to do so without any such issues of it not being charged.

Flashlights are no different.

PJD642

26 July 2018, 15:01

Interesting inferior performance of Elzetta with whatever 18650 used.

The 18650 Keepower 3500 mAh Japanese made cell and protection circuit is the only 18650 Malkoff sells. Performance in my Malkoff MD2 after weeks of storage is consistent with runtime graphs posted. Doesn't suffer any significant parasitic drain as the inferior performance described with the Elzetta/18650. While I haven't measured it, I guess it would be consistent with generally expected 1-2% a month. Extreme cold can affect the performance of rechargeable, but the climate here in Tennessee is mild so that's not an issue.

There's a lot of different quality batteries sold, and not all flashlights digest them well. Surefire has suffered issues with their new "Dual Fuel" lights failing with other brand 18650 batteries. Surefire offered steep discounts to purchasers to replace other brand batteries with Surefire.

I've got to agree with Phil on this one regarding battery quality and apparent parasitic discharge by the Elzetta. I use a Surefire Peacekeeper P1R (https://smile.amazon.com/SureFire-Peacekeeper-Ultra-High-Flashlights-Rechargeable/dp/B00KCCD058?th=1) with a tailswitch swapped out for a clicky-type carried on my belt, and use almost it every day for varying periods of time. Maybe once every two weeks I notice it getting weaker, and I swap it out for a charged spare I carry in the cruiser. Never noticed an appreciable loss from sitting unused, either in the flashlight or in the duty bag.

For a light that might get used once a year or so (like in my personal car's console) I've got one of Gene Malkoff's older model lights with 2 CR123 batteries in it.

PJD642

26 July 2018, 15:12

voodoo_man

26 July 2018, 16:05

OMD, the number of people we deal with every year "I'm lost in the woods and it's getting dark and I can't stay on the phone with dispatch because I've only got 4% battery life". And everyone is apparently too busy facebooking or tweeting or instagramming or whatever about being lost & eaten by a bear to take 15 seconds to open their map app & send location to a friend, or open the compass app and give dispatch the coordinates...Darwin's constant spinning in his grave should be harnessed as a source of eternal power.

People think a phone is an accessory but it is actually as important as any tool you carry.

How else can you immediately summon people to your location who can bring everything from food to helicopters to swat teams? You cannot any other way.

Keep your shit charged up.

Aragorn

26 July 2018, 17:13

People think a phone is an accessory but it is actually as important as any tool you carry.

How else can you immediately summon people to your location who can bring everything from food to helicopters to swat teams? You cannot any other way.

Keep your shit charged up.

.....it also functions as a flashlight. [:D]

gatordev

26 July 2018, 17:41

Not having a charged phone is like walking around with a pistol that only has half the magazine filled with ammo.

When you need to use your phone, it should work, and if you are somewhere you may need to use it for a prolonged period of time then you should be able to do so without any such issues of it not being charged.

Flashlights are no different.

But for these purposes, we're not talking about a charged phone, we're talking about a ready-to-use flashlight. Times I've reached for my non-rechargable flashlight and it hasn't worked has been exactly once. Times I've reached for a phone that gets charged every 1-2 days and it's been lower than I wanted...more than a few times. And again, I don't really spend a ton of time on my phone.

People think a phone is an accessory but it is actually as important as any tool you carry.

How else can you immediately summon people to your location who can bring everything from food to helicopters to swat teams? You cannot any other way.

Keep your shit charged up.

Well, a radio comes to mind...

A phone is great when it works, but not everyone lives or works in a place where a phone is THE reliable source of salvation. Stray a few miles from an interstate when beyond a city (or CONUS), and its use drops off quickly. Ever been out west? I've gone a whole day without cell service. But a flashlight that requires minimal thinking and only a minimal scheduled maintenance cycle will still work fine. They aren't always an apples-to-apples comparison.

But again, buy what works for you.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 19:00

But again, buy what works for you.

Right.

And while 99% of my flashlight use is with rechargeable, of course I toss a Surefire 12-pack in the truck and another in the kitchen drawer. With a 10-year shelf life why not, right? Along with extra Lithium AA and AAA too...

Talking about kitchen drawers... I got the perfect kitchen drawer light. It's an old Surefire G3 3x CR123 with a Malkoff M61LL drop-in. Regulated runtime is something like 12hrs + a ton of taper down time. For the limited use it gets, it's good for years on a set of standard Surefire batteries. Funny... the most I paid for a flashlight is one I never use, a Surefire P3X. I thought it was going to be the best flashlight... but just didn't work for me.

When it comes to flashlights there's a ton of choices. I can't help but say yes. [crazy]

https://i.imgur.com/ryzMq1g.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MuHB8Xs.jpg

.

voodoo_man

26 July 2018, 19:51

Been to plenty of places where I don't get service. That's why I have a radio which can access an 8call90 band with me when I go out there, only to be used in absolutely dire circumstances. Otherwise a phone can still do a lot for you even without service. Lots of very useable apps which don't need service to function properly.

As for flashlights, just the money savings alone warrants not buying a light which needs batteries. If you are stuck somewhere you cannot get service and don't have power then you should have a solar powered battery charger, or two. A decently sized one can charge a flashlight full with no problems, amongst other things.

In the next decade you'll see battery flashlights (as well as other things) slowly phased out while charging via USB/solar will be phased in.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 20:40

As for flashlights, just the money savings alone warrants not buying a light which needs batteries.

I use a Streamlight Stinger 800 lumen rechargeable about 30 minutes every night. A comparable light would be my Surefire P3X 3x CR123. It's rated a 1k lumens but only for about 2 minutes then operates in regulation at 600-500 lumens for 2hrs before falling off a cliff.

So.... 300 nights X 30min = 150 flashlight hours per year = 225 CR123 batteries. One of the cheapest places I have found to buy batteries is B&H Photo. 72-pack Surefire CR123 is $129 delivered. Sometimes cheaper on eBay for older batteries. According to my abacus... it would cost about $400 to fill the trash can with dead CR123 batteries. Find a super deal on batteries... call it $300+.

alamo5000

26 July 2018, 20:52

Looks like I dun stirred up sumthin'. [:D] LOL!!!

OK, serious biness question on the 123 vs the AAA (or AA), for those of you that prefer either or.

My idea for a light is to have one that I can throw light fairly far (in my definition of far). I can illuminate out easily 75 to 100 yards with either my Arisaka 300 series or now my 300x Surefire.

For some reason or another I am under the impression that the 123 batteries put out more juice and hence more potential light. Does an AAA light have the capability to throw light that far? I am talking sheerly based on the power factor...

---

Side note--I totally get the concept of carrying a small, light weight non intrusive light. That idea appeals to me on a whole number of levels and I am very tempted to get a small light like that. It seems very very handy. That said for right now I want a light that has extra horsepower should I ever need to scan the parking lot before going to the ATM or whatever.

I am not intentionally ruling out AAA lights but for some reason or another I am under the impression that those lights wouldn't have a fair comparison to say a light like my Arisaka 300 series (single 123 battery).

Living in the country I have 1000 times more chance that somebody's cows got out of the pen (and into the road) or some situation like that where being able to scan a wide area fast would be way more useful. I don't think an AAA light would provide this capability, but I could be totally wrong. I don't know who has tried running over a 2000 pound bull at 65mph in a Nissan but I assure you it's not fun.

---

As far as rechargeable batteries go I am thinking in two different ways. If the unit has a built in battery that cannot be just swapped out, that sucks (to me). I wouldn't want that for a light. When I thought about rechargeable batteries I think when they run down I can take it out and recharge and in the mean time have a spare with me so I can just swap if needed. Reason for that being is if I get caught with a dead battery I can swap in just a minute. Also I am not confident in built in batteries. If the battery goes, the whole unit goes. At least that's how I am trained to think.

If rechargeable batteries just suck all together I will just buy another box of Surefire batteries and toss em when dead and replace as needed. It's no real skin off my back either way because 99% of the time I am not working in life or death situations.

I just thought buying a half dozen rechargeable ones will save me cash in the long run.

alamo5000

26 July 2018, 21:32

you can reference this post - http://www.vdmsr.com/2016/11/streamlight-protac-hl-usb.html - as to what I am referring to.

It has a micro USB plug and works just fine on a single charge, even for duty use.

I have to admit that does look appealing. I could charge my light when I charge my phone in the car. I have a Y connector so it's as simple as getting another cord.

NOW---that said---since the conversation turned to phones... my Android phone (older model) loses charge rather quickly vs when it was new. Fortunately I always buy a spare battery when I buy a phone. When I charge (or overcharge) my experience with cel phones is the life of the battery definitely decreases over time given the same amount of use.

Not sure how that specific light fares over time but that has been my experience with all my phones.

---

As others have pointed out everybody has unique needs...I live in hurricane country so I bought a converter for my car for the express purpose to be able to charge my laptop or any other small device while on the the go. Going without power for days on end is pretty frequent during storms.

Also the talk of 'cold weather' makes me chuckle since it literally was 109 degrees in the frickin' shade here yesterday. If ANYTHING I need to be worried about the HEAT.

----

Other experience is with my DSLR camera gear I can run my camera off of AA batteries if I want to. They have the dedicated battery for the camera, but also it comes with a tray that holds AA's. I could in theory run my camera anywhere on the planet and as long as I have a stash of AA's I am ok. I have a flash unit too that I played with for a while that sucks the life right out of AA batteries. Hence I invested in a bunch of rechargeable AA's. I haven't bought a battery in ages. I just periodically recharge and go on about my business.

ChattanoogaPhil

26 July 2018, 21:44

Living in the country I have 1000 times more chance that somebody's cows got out of the pen (and into the road) or some situation like that where being able to scan a wide area fast would be way more useful. I don't think an AAA light would provide this capability, but I could be totally wrong. I don't know who has tried running over a 2000 pound bull at 65mph in a Nissan but I assure you it's not fun.

High performance AAA keychain lights are not intended for field use. Their small size is intended for convenient to carry limited personal use to always have illumination on hand, always. If you want to herd animals at night get a robust high capacity/output light for those type of uses. And you'll never notice that you're still carrying that AAA or compact AA flashlight at the same time. I mean... while I always have a AAA flashlight in my jeans watch pocket, if I wanted to chase or tip cows at night I'd just grab the Malkoff MD2 from the glovebox. Also have a headlamp... :P

alamo5000

26 July 2018, 22:28

High performance AAA keychain lights are not intended for field use. Their small size is intended for convenient to carry personal use to always have illumination on hand, always. If you want to herd animals at night get a robust high capacity/output light for those type of uses. And you'll never notice that you're still carrying that AAA or compact AA flashlight at the same time.

It's not that I WANT to herd animals at night... that's just an example of a realistic situation... more than once I was out flagging down oncoming traffic or getting the cows off the road so somebody didn't get killed.

If I go down to Houston and want to scan across a dark parking lot would be another good example...IE checking out the potential for a car jacker or whatever.

FWIW, I am now actually thinking of getting two lights. One for a keychain for small stuff (to replace the aging one I have now) and a slightly bigger one with more horsepower.

My keys are my keys so that is not 'adding' much to replace that light, but for a slightly bigger one that has more HP, that's really where I am focusing on. Something that can be more for my EDC, be prepared, bug out, patrol kit.

SINNER

27 July 2018, 06:12

I've got to agree with Phil on this one regarding battery quality and apparent parasitic discharge by the Elzetta. I use a Surefire Peacekeeper P1R (https://smile.amazon.com/SureFire-Peacekeeper-Ultra-High-Flashlights-Rechargeable/dp/B00KCCD058?th=1) with a tailswitch swapped out for a clicky-type carried on my belt, and use almost it every day for varying periods of time. Maybe once every two weeks I notice it getting weaker, and I swap it out for a charged spare I carry in the cruiser. Never noticed an appreciable loss from sitting unused, either in the flashlight or in the duty bag.

For a light that might get used once a year or so (like in my personal car's console) I've got one of Gene Malkoff's older model lights with 2 CR123 batteries in it.

Not sure where the idea of parasitic loss was attributed to the light but that’s a baseless, incorrect assumption. No issues with normal batteries for 6-7 months that light has sat idle. It’s directly attributed to the known issues with rechargeable batteries. Even the older Elzettas that use the inferior Malkoff LED’S have never shown an issue.

voodoo_man

27 July 2018, 06:17

Just a list of things that I have found to be true throughout my experience in real world application - no particular order:

The more lumens the better, I will gladly sacrifice comfort, run time and functionality (like ten tap/programmable/etc) for high lumen output to blind people into doing what I want them to do.

Cell phones are consumable. I don't know why people keep phones for 3+ years, they are not designed to last that long without having to swap parts out. I buy a new phone (google brand every sept/oct when they release a new one) every single year. I do this because I don't want to worry about my phone having hiccups in service, functionality or connectivity. The different between a Nexus 5x and the Pixel 2 which I have (which are about 3 years apart at this point) is night and day. It is a tool just like anything else, don't skimp on it. We live in a connected world, you need to be able to properly use your tools to increase your overall productivity. Buy a new phone every year or buy a new phone every new model of that phone (usually a year).

Stay away from stuff that doesn't have recharge and requires non-rechargeable batteries. I've saved $1000+ in batteries in the last few years if you do the math on the various flashlights I use, the DSLR/Flashes, the other various items I use premium rechargeable batteries in (enelope pro for AAA/AA).

Do not be afraid to try new technology, yes it may be annoying to get used to and it may not do exactly what you want it to originally because its different, give it time and try to see how it works out. The worst possible thing you can do is stagnate and become stuck in your particular comfort zone with technology. Evolve not just your tech but your understanding of how its applied.

ChattanoogaPhil

27 July 2018, 08:42

Stay away from stuff that doesn't have recharge and requires non-rechargeable batteries. I've saved $1000+ in batteries in the last few years if you do the math on the various flashlights I use, the DSLR/Flashes, the other various items I use premium rechargeable batteries in (enelope pro for AAA/AA).

Yup. I use KeepPower 18650 and eneloop pro AAA and AA.
Quality rechargeable in quality flashlights = outstanding performance and reliability, economical too.

AAA Surfire AA Malkoff 18650 Malkoff.

https://i.imgur.com/ESx7GkP.jpg

ChattanoogaPhil

27 July 2018, 10:30

Not sure where the idea of parasitic loss was attributed to the light but that’s a baseless, incorrect assumption. No issues with normal batteries for 6-7 months that light has sat idle. It’s directly attributed to the known issues with rechargeable batteries. Even the older Elzettas that use the inferior Malkoff LED’S have never shown an issue.

IIRC, I had posted both possibilities of flashlight parasitic drain or battery issues in reply to your description of inferior performance. If I made that confusing I apologize.

For all the readership knows, you were using a cheap 2100 mAh or damaged 18650 vs two 1500 mAh CR123. The bored out Elzetta still might have abnormally high parasitic drain but it was more painfully obvious with a cheap low capacity 18650. Without any detail no one knows... and with so much back and forth I doubt any cares at this point.

What I can offer the readership is the 18650 KeepPower 3500 mAh can be stored in the Malkoff MD2 with an M61 for many weeks and still perform in line with the runtime graphs earlier posted and are widely reviewed as among the best rechargeable in their class. As well, the eneloop pro AA and AAA are rated to retain 90% charge after 6 months in storage, 85% after a year and 70% after 10 years IIRC. While my lights with rechargeable batteries don't go unused for years at time, the rated performance is quite impressive. Battery technology has come a long way in recent years.

MoxyDave

27 July 2018, 11:01

After carrying it for a couple of weeks, I am really liking the Zebralight SC64w (http://www.zebralight.com/SC64w-18650-XHP35-Neutral-White-Flashlight_p_212.html). I have 2 quality 18650 Sanyo NCR18650GA (http://www.zebralight.com/Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3500mAh-10A-18650-Li-ion-Flat-Top-ship-to-US-customers-only_p_176.html) batteries. I keep one in the charger (https://www.amazon.com/ARE-X2-battery-charger-EdisonBright-Battery/dp/B01K1S4NAS/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1532714361&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=Fenix+ARE-X2+battery+charger&psc=1) at home, and simply swap them once a month, or as needed.

I carry a Zebralight AA (http://www.zebralight.com/SC53w-AA-Neutral-White-Flashlight_p_202.html) torch in my bag, and some extra Energizer Lithium AA's. If my primary runs out, I have a backup that can use inexpensive, widely-available batteries.

An 18650 battery has roughly the capacity of 4 AA's, in a package that's only a little bit bigger.

To me, this beats all: EDC a good quality rechargeable with replaceable cells, and keep a backup AA for emergencies.

PJD642

27 July 2018, 12:47

alamo5000

31 July 2018, 11:48

I have a feeling that preference on lights is kind of like preference on holsters. I just need to buy something and work with it.

Stone

31 July 2018, 20:45

alamo5000

31 July 2018, 21:13

Hehehe... It only took you 5 pages to see the light. Stay out of dark alleys and you wont need one. I have a surefire in my truck and maybe only need it once a year. Personally I think the whole flashlight thing is over rated...

Honestly I have been extremely busy with stuff to stay fully engaged on the forum (or any other forum) (even lurking) like I otherwise would.

Admittedly I am a goof sometimes but at least I know it. LOL!

I did learn a lot. The list is as follows (not comprehensive):

1. Lumens is only part of the story.
2. Candela is another good thing to know and talk about.
3. How the flashlight is shaped matters in relation to how you will carry it.
4. The controls matter. Clicky? Pressure? Twist? How do you turn it on or in some cases off matters a lot.
5. How many modes are there and how do you get through them all?
6. What is your goal? Is your wife looking for lost keys in her purse or are you trying to track down bad guys? In other words 5 lumens might be perfect for some things but in other situations you want all 1500.
7. What kind of batteries, charging, etc all can matter if you want it to. Same with construction etc.
8. HOW the light shines can make a big difference. Some lights are more 'broad' so you can see all around your area, and other lights are more concentrated in one spot.

This is all stuff I never put much thought into. Those are just a few things. The tint of the light, the color of the light, how long it runs, etc... most of the 5 pages was other people talking to each other, but just being a fly on the wall in such a conversation among people who know more than I do is beneficial.

If I am going to spend $200+ bucks on a light (or lights) it actually all matters to some degree. If you are putting together a kit for dark alleys and catching bad guys in the 5th ward or if you are preparing for hurricane season when the lights will inevitably go out (sometimes for days or longer) it makes a difference to know and think about the truth of your situation.

alamo5000

31 July 2018, 21:26

Stay out of dark alleys and you wont need one. I have a surefire in my truck and maybe only need it once a year. Personally I think the whole flashlight thing is over rated...

I live about 14 miles away from the closest street light btw. The whole thing is one big dark alley. It's unavoidable. [BD]

I also don't think the light thing is over rated (yet). Once I get my light(s) and run with it a while I will let you know. I've gone this long with only a minimal light but I have long wanted to invest in something better. Honestly I have gone through like 7 or 8 cheap lights. I've tried carrying them in my truck and after that my car, so I am coming from about 7 or 8 years worth of dead batteries worth of experience.

I want to round out a good emergency kit primarily for non tactical use. For me using it for gun fighting is a secondary use. More like 3rd or 4th place hopefully. Buying a cheap 10 pack of $1 lights and then when you really need it all the batteries are dead, that sucks. It's better to have one or two good ones near you (always) that are well maintained.

PJD642

31 July 2018, 22:04

alamo5000

31 July 2018, 23:18

My only additional comment is don't get too caught up in the whole variable brightness "one press for high, two for low and three for strobe" or whatever. I set mine so all they do is "High". If I need lower power, I cup my hand over the lens. Trying to use quick bursts of light to get a momentary image of an area will inevitably result in your pressing the switch two times in too quickly a fashion and the light will go to Low mode, and then you'll have to cycle thru everything again to get back to High.

At the end of the day I decided on lights based on several factors.

One of the lights I picked was the Surefire Titan Plus. The reason for this is it uses AAA batteries, and I have a ton of good rechargeables already that I thought I would use for some camera gear (remote flash triggers that I never use).

Also it has a LOT of power for a small light even if I don't use all of it all the time. It also can't be 'accidentally' turned on in my pocket. The twist the bezel thing is actually good in this case.

All of that plus the idea of it being so small means much less hassle to carry it around. I already have a small keychain light (that sucks) in my pocket so with that it's a matter of replacing that one with something better. No big alterations in how I carry EDC but I will have a lot more light in my pocket at all times.

The other light I plan to buy is the EDCL1 from Surefire. It has enough light for my needs. "Sufficient" is good enough. It also uses ONE CR123 battery. Standard stuff for what I use in other things.

I have a little pack that I take everywhere I go and that I store my stuff in at night. If I go somewhere where I am not allowed to conceal, it's my stash pouch. I guess you can call it a man purse sort of but I can put my gun, holster whatever in there and lock it out of sight so it's safe. It's almost like my bug out bag. If something goes wrong, I need to grab ONE BAG. If I am on a trip that is the first thing that I will NOT forget. It keeps me organized.

The selling point on the second light (for me) is more power for when I need it and different functionality than the Titan. Back up lights are good and it won't be a hassle to carry around. I can put it in my pocket if I want to, or I can put it in my stash pouch. I am literally in my stash pouch every single day so I can check batteries etc no problem, but odds are between two lights one will have a working battery.

The biggest other thing is the functional tail cap. Medium pressure or hard pressure. Simple. No clicky clicky. It's all momentary until I want to twist it to on. It's got simple functions.

Anyway between those two (I already ordered the first one) I should be covered. If in the future I decide I need something bigger or more fancy I can adjust from there.

Joelski

1 August 2018, 15:04

voodoo_man

1 August 2018, 15:31

Hehehe... It only took you 5 pages to see the light. Stay out of dark alleys and you wont need one. I have a surefire in my truck and maybe only need it once a year. Personally I think the whole flashlight thing is over rated...

True story...

Fresh boot out of the academy gets assigned to me (poor kid) and our first week is a day shift week. I check his equipment and see he doesn't have a flashlight (we get issued decent streamlight LED stingers). I ask him why not and he looks at me with a smug face "well it's daytime, it's bright outside, what am I possibly going to need a light for?" I smile, and tell him to get his light and make sure he has all of his equipment on him when he comes on shift. He gets it out of his locker, I make sure its charged up, which it is. Fifth call of the day we are in a sub basement with a 3.5ft ceiling fighting with a dude who has a felony warrant in total darkness. I literally took out my light, turned it on and tossed it so I can have some kind of light. Boot never gets his light out at all. Once we get him cuffed I get my light and ask him why he doesn't have his light on, he forget he even had it.

After we get out and back in the car I told him there is a reason we have all of our gear and we carry it with us all the time. We, as humans, cannot make light without a tool. We cannot cut things without a tool. We cannot poke 9mm holes in people at 1300fps without a tool, and we cannot restrain people without tools for long periods of time. To this day, I've never seen him without a flashlight on his belt.

PJD642

1 August 2018, 15:48

We, as humans, cannot make light without a tool. We cannot cut things without a tool. We cannot poke 9mm holes in people at 1300fps without a tool, and we cannot restrain people without tools for long periods of time. To this day, I've never seen him without a flashlight on his belt.

Amen! Also constantly amazed at the number of coworkers who only carry one set of cuffs....

voodoo_man

1 August 2018, 16:36

Amen! Also constantly amazed at the number of coworkers who only carry one set of cuffs....

If you are a veteran LEO and do not carry 2x cuffs and have a pair of shackles in the car, you are lacking forethought.

tact

1 August 2018, 20:50

I’ve never seen a quality light with a USB port so are you guys using a stand alone charger or such light duty use the toys with USB’s are holding up?

My Fenix has held up and I’m starting to like the USB charging lights. I spend a lot of the time tracking at night and I’m in the desert. One charged battery usually will carry me with constant on for most of the evening. I’ll usually drop an extra battery in my pocket for just in case the night runs a little long or how much I use a higher setting and I need a quick battery change.

alamo5000

3 August 2018, 12:43

Surefire Titan Plus arrived today. [:D]

I will obviously be testing this out more but first impressions are good. It has very impressive power for such a small light, and it uses a single AAA battery. I have half a dozen or more almost brand new good rechargeable AAA's and a charger already. When it gets dark outside I will give it more tests but so far for a tiny pocket light it seems pretty good.

It's a little longer than the light I had on my keychain... not quite an inch longer. It's heavier too but it's a %$^#ing key chain light. It's not that bad. The on/off function happens when you turn the bezzle. You turn the bezzle a little and it's the first mode, turn it back (off) and then twist again for the next power level, turn it back AGAIN (to off position) and twist it for full power. Kind of a weird control method but I will get used to it.

The other light I ordered should be here next week. [BD]

ChattanoogaPhil

9 September 2018, 12:17

After a month of carry.... what's your verdict on the T+?

https://i.imgur.com/JLWOvNw.jpg

alamo5000

9 September 2018, 13:07

After a month of carry.... what's your verdict on the T+?

https://i.imgur.com/JLWOvNw.jpg

My impressions are that the Titan Plus was probably one of the best buys I've ever made. Without a doubt. Handy as hell. I also have several friends that all want to buy them as well now (not gun people). They would see my light and be like "Man! I am going to buy one of those for my wife for Christmas!" or whatever... hopefully Surefire sends me a gift certificate for pimping their gear and expanding the herd. LOL

For my style of carry (light easy comfortable) it's quite literally almost a perfect choice and the power level is really amazing considering how small it is.

The other light I got I've been carrying that too. The EDCL1-T. It's definitely good too. Like it and I am glad I bought it. It has more than one use than just putting it in my pocket or whatever.

In a nutshell I give the Titan Plus a 95% or more, which means I love it.

The EDCL1 is good too but I would keep the door open for adding more options for that 'style' of light. I would probably give it an 85% on the basis that the bezzle is a bigger diameter than the body and depending on how I wear it I can tell it's there just because of how it rides. It's not like its horrible but I would keep the door open to more options should I ever get to go someplace where I can see and handle a lot of different lights before I purchase them. I am pretty sure it's common knowledge around here now that I am not normally a buy things sight unseen kind of person for a lot of things. LOL

In the mean time and for 95% of my use it works perfectly and is definitely a great light.

On a side note when I got the EDCL1 right out of the box I had some problem with it. It would cut in and out and turn off by itself and all sorts of weird stuff. I ended up taking it completely apart (tail cap and bezzle) and sprayed them down with some electronics cleaner and reassmbled everything. After that not a single hiccup. I think the original problem was either the bezzle wasn't originally tightened down right or maybe something light got in the connection with the battery but once I got everything nice and snug it's been a fantastic little light.

ChattanoogaPhil

10 September 2018, 12:31

Glad to hear the T+ met your expectations. Once ya get past the price tag for a 1AAA it ain't too bad. I think of it as the Rolex of 1AAA. [:D]

alamo5000

10 September 2018, 13:57

Glad to hear the T+ met your expectations. Once ya get past the price tag for a 1AAA it ain't too bad. I think of it as the Rolex of 1AAA. [:D]

It definitely met expectations. I think surefire should make a slightly bigger one that say throws more lumens but retains the same overall body shape and has a gas pedal button on the tail like the other light I have.

If they can get that much light out of a single AAA why not scale it up to a AA or a 123 battery and see what we can get? Keep the same clip style and everything. My biggest complaint about the other light (not the titan) is that the bezzle is bigger than the body tube. That's just my personal feeling.

I think a "plus size" titan plus would be a great option even if they don't use the accelerator pedal on the tail. Even if they keep the bezzle twist it would be awesome. Same exact design only bigger and more juice.

As for the batteries, one thing I have a lot of it's batteries. In my photography hobby I have a lot of AA and AAA rechargeables that I rarely if ever use. They were originally intended for flash and wireless flash controllers but honestly I almost never touch my flash stuff for the most part. I pretty much haven't gotten into the whole studio photography thing so I have at least a dozen AA and at least 8 or 10 AAA that are all rechargeable.

Pretty much I decided to try the Titan because I had a good stash of batteries that I can use for it and I am glad I did. So far it's a real winner.

ChattanoogaPhil

10 September 2018, 15:02

If they can get that much light out of a single AAA why not scale it up to a AA or a 123 battery and see what we can get? Keep the same clip style and everything. My biggest complaint about the other light (not the titan) is that the bezzle is bigger than the body tube. That's just my personal feeling.

Yeah, 300 lumens from a 1 x AAA is impressive to say the least. Of course that 300 lumens is just for a few seconds. It comes down to earth real quick. If you want a slightly larger diameter bang-zoom 1 x CR123, Olight makes a 900 lumen S1R Turbo S.

Here are T+ runtimes graphs for 300 high, 75 medium and 15 low.
99% of the time low and medium serve my Average Joe needs.

https://i.imgur.com/QP1yXHz.png

https://i.imgur.com/Xb2Zq4Y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/d7P9Tgg.jpg

HWS

11 September 2018, 19:09

Check this out:

https://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_449755.html?wid=21

Pyzik

12 September 2018, 05:08

Probably not enough horsepower for you , but.... I really love my Streamlight Protac 2AAA. I think it's only 80 lumens on the first setting but I've found this to be bright enough for situations I find myself in. It's about the size of a Sharpie.

I used this light for the night portion at the Alliance Shoot House class I took last year. Guys were telling me I was going to want more (for a portion, we were not allowed to use a WML) but I found that I had plenty of light to navigate and identify threats or non-threats.

My light is the most frequently used item in my EDC. I find myself using it pretty darn often.

EDIT: I didn't realize this was such an old thread and you found a light. Great choice.

alamo5000

16 September 2018, 13:53

Probably not enough horsepower for you

That part of your comment really caught my eye here. Before I started I had one view on lumens and now after a mere month I have a whole new outlook on things. Honestly the whole reason why I even started the thread was to pick all you guys brains. I tried to use the collective knowledge plus add in what I think my intended purpose would be in order to just make an educated guess.

I do have to say that carrying a light around (actually two of them) for a month has been a lesson in and of itself. It's like that old saying 'one day of doing is worth a month of talking about it' or something like that.

I have been paying attention and taking mental notes about when and where and how I use the light(s) and I can say that I use my light(s) on low power probably 90% of the time or more. The great lumen race might be good for some things but not everything. Talk about having an epiphany sort of. What I thought I wanted + what I learned = not what I started out wanting. It's pretty awesome actually. Like I said many times before ... I LOVE learning and this whole thing has been a good learning experience.

The Titan for example has 3 settings. 15, 75, and 300. Like I said, the 75 gets used the most, the 15 second, and the 300 not nearly as much (but it does get used).

The two lights I have now have taught me that being a lumen whore isn't always the smartest use of money. The higher lumen counts do matter but it all depends on what you're doing. I've tried it extensively in both the country and the city...but day to day 'grandma lost her cel phone in the dark movie theater' needs, or 'somebody needs to dig through their purse in the car at night' needs...

Those kinds of things (for me) come up a lot more than getting shot at or having to blind an assailant. [BD]

In both the country and city testing I am doing more than 500 lumens could be of use in some situations but overall day to day does it warrant carrying around something huge that can melt your eyeballs? Probably not.

I think it was Will who mentioned 'candela' and that is something I would like to know more about, such as how many candela do my specific lights put out and how can you find that out about other lights?

With hindsight being 20/20 if I had to make a list of important things today it would be something like this:

Overall size and shape of the light (something awkward or too big and you won't carry it on your person)
Multiple power settings
How do the controls work?
The spill of the beam
The color of the beam
lumens/candela (I understand they aren't the same thing)

I can go back and explain why I am forming my opinions that way, but the important thing is that I am actually forming an opinion. For lack of a better word it's pretty eye opening. For example I didn't want to get a light that is under powered but that was just me honestly 'wondering out loud'....

After I have tried it out for a while I could live with 300 lumens all day every day provided the other criteria are better met, and if I really wanted to get down to bare bones a light with two settings, 20 and 100 or 15 and 75 lumens in all reality meet most of my day to day needs.

It's good to have more than that on hand but it's not an all the time thing.

Although the thread itself has kind of died off I am still learning a lot, which is a good thing. I am also realizing that I should have bought a good light years ago. I am finding I use the damn things quite a lot and it's not just because they are new toys.

alamo5000

16 September 2018, 14:07

Yeah, 300 lumens from a 1 x AAA is impressive to say the least. Of course that 300 lumens is just for a few seconds. It comes down to earth real quick. If you want a slightly larger diameter bang-zoom 1 x CR123, Olight makes a 900 lumen S1R Turbo S.

Here are T+ runtimes graphs for 300 high, 75 medium and 15 low.
99% of the time low and medium serve my Average Joe needs.

https://i.imgur.com/QP1yXHz.png

https://i.imgur.com/Xb2Zq4Y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/d7P9Tgg.jpg

Nice charts man. You're going to have to show me where you get those.

Also how much do you know about measuring candela?

ChattanoogaPhil

16 September 2018, 14:13

In a time and galaxy far far away.... a 20-30 lumen flashlight was consider eye-blistering. By today's standards I'm surprised I ever found my way home with this in my hand.

https://i.imgur.com/MkzF0sw.jpg