8.6 Creedmoor

[alamo5000]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/08/20/tfb-exclusive-8-6-creedmoor/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/08/21/discreet-ballistics-8-6-creedmoor


So far the thing is a .338 caliber 'blackout' that uses .308 size receivers.

Big fat 'meh' from me. Don't get me wrong, I would shoot it, especially if other people are providing the ammo.

Bigger, heavier, substantially more expensive to shoot... am I missing anything?

Oh yeah, and it's not compatible with most suppressors.

[alamo5000]

http://discreetballistics.com/shop/86creedmoor_huntdefense/

$55 plus shipping for 20 rounds of ammo. Call it $3 per round.

[VIPER 237]

Kinda cool but meh for me. I know Q is pushing it hard but I don’t see the appeal?

[Mecha_Arms]

It seems like a cool idea, but at $3 per round, plus having to buy a new suppressor, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

[SINNER]

You have to love marketing. Nothing but a renamed .338 Federal. I know a few people were loading the 338 Fed with 300gr. bullets for subsonic loads 15 years ago.

So many .338 projectiles available due to the Lapua’s popularity there’s really nothing left to develop but media hype with a new trendy name.

[UWone77]

It seems like a cool idea, but at $3 per round, plus having to buy a new suppressor, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

This right here.

No more calibers for me.

[Sak007]

300blk on steroids yes please . After shooting the 510 Beck & Triggercon 2017 I've been lusting after a heavy cycling subsonic .
Is it expensive & a pain in the ass to add another caliber to the mix ? Yes but I have GAS
Gear
Acquisition
Syndrome

[Former11B]

Yeah, this is limited use and fills a need or want for some people....but not for me personally

I can load Subsonic .308...don’t need anything beyond that

[fledge]

If this catches on...

...ammo prices will come down just like 300blk.

.... we’ll finally have a factory subsonic AR308 round (is there one already).

... suppressors for it will be more “normal” in that size.

Q seems to talk about this the most. Having more energy at normal hunting than a 308 while going subsonic from 12.5” barrel is interesting to many. I’ve not seen any benefit to a 308 SBR but this may be it.

That said, I’ll wait and see. And just like 300blk, it won’t be a range gun but serve a certain low-round count use.

[alamo5000]

If this catches on...

...ammo prices will come down just like 300blk.

.... we’ll finally have a factory subsonic AR308 round (is there one already).

... suppressors for it will be more “normal” in that size.

Q seems to talk about this the most. Having more energy at normal hunting than a 308 while going subsonic from 12.5” barrel is interesting to many. I’ve not seen any benefit to a 308 SBR but this may be it.

That said, I’ll wait and see. And just like 300blk, it won’t be a range gun but serve a certain low-round count use.

Has the price of 300 BLK ammo dropped? (honest question I am brand new to it) Factory ammo I am sure, but based on the cost of heavy bullets I don't know if it's dropped that much or not....but with this round there is more materials hence they will always be incrementally more expensive.

I don't think the case for these are .308 cases. I think they are using some other resized/reshaped brass.

.300 BLK to me has the potential to be one of my more shot calibers. That is if I can find good heavy subs to run. I can basically shoot it without waking the dead.

While I am generally not a big hunter per se (I would but just no time) but the problem with hunting with 300BLK subs is lack of energy on the sub level even when paired with the solid copper max expansion bullets. As with everything it's all about shot placement.

With this .338 caliber slinging similar copper rounds at 300 grains down range it's likely to do a lot more damage. [:D]

Right now in the 300 BLK world they make 265 grain cast bullets that can be shot out of a regular old AR. The problem as I understand it is they just blow right through 3 gel blocks end to end.

About the only thing I see coming out of this new round is potentially the ability to have true subsonic hunts without as much worry about putting down an animal quickly.

[Former11B]

Unless Im mistaken, I also wouldn’t call it a “large 300 Blackout”. 300BLK is made specifically to use in the semi auto AR15 platform. All I see from Q, even though it’s awesome, is the Fix, which is bolt action.

Why can’t people just use 338 Federal bolt guns and load 300gr subs? Because they ALREADY DO. But “Federal” doesn’t sell like “Creedmoor”.

[Joelski]

Unless Im mistaken, I also wouldn’t call it a “large 300 Blackout”. 300BLK is made specifically to use in the semi auto AR15 platform. All I see from Q, even though it’s awesome, is the Fix, which is bolt action.

Why can’t people just use 338 Federal bolt guns and load 300gr subs? Because they ALREADY DO. But “Federal” doesn’t sell like “Creedmoor”.It uses the .308 case, so it doesn't alter mag capacity, hence it's a barrel swap conversion just like 300 BLK.

[SINNER]

Since Hornady is saying it’s a shortened, necked up 6.5 CM case technically it’s based on a 30 TC. Still just hanging a trendy name on another company’s round. I am curious to see the twist rates Q winds up settling on with this round. The 338’s running subsonically certainly benefit from getting spun fast.

[Former11B]

It uses the .308 case, so it doesn't alter mag capacity, hence it's a barrel swap conversion just like 300 BLK.


The case isn’t in question: 300BLK was designed to replace the 9mm as a suppressed subgun caliber. 8.6CM is a Subsonic .338 in a bolt action rifle. That’s totally different IMO

[SINNER]

The case isn’t in question: 300BLK was designed to replace the 9mm as a suppressed subgun caliber. 8.6CM is a Subsonic .338 in a bolt action rifle. That’s totally different IMO

I’m not sure why you keep insisting it’s a bolt gun round. Yes the rifle Q is touting is a bolt gun but without question this round will function in a semi auto. It’s like saying a 6.5 CM is a bolt gun round because Ruger make the precision rifle in that caliber.

[fledge]

Q is calling it the “300blk’s big brother” and “300blk for men.”

As is typical of Q marketing, they will gain hype for the caliber, make a short bolt gun for it (SBR and pistol versions) which will release 6 months from now as they trickle in a large frame honey badger and matching can.

If it catches on, I’ll be tempted. I have an Form 1 Mega Maten lower that has no practical use.... yet.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180824/b664967f7e66f349478e77d112c86534.png

[SINNER]

Lol Q’s marketing....Trust me it will be sweeeeet.

That pretty much sums up every interview and press release I’ve seen. Lots of unsubstantiated claims.

[Sak007]

Lol Q’s marketing....Trust me it will be sweeeeet.

That pretty much sums up every interview and press release I’ve seen. Lots of unsubstantiated claims.

I hate to sound like a fan boy but every Q product that has come through the shop that I have gotten to use has been outstanding & extremely well thought out .
And as far as their cans they have been some of the quietest & most pleasant toned ones I've ever shot . And I'm not saying this just to try to get a free 8.6 Fix .........Kevin , Kevin you there ?

[Former11B]

I’m not sure why you keep insisting it’s a bolt gun round. Yes the rifle Q is touting is a bolt gun but without question this round will function in a semi auto. It’s like saying a 6.5 CM is a bolt gun round because Ruger make the precision rifle in that caliber.

Because he’s advertising it in a Bolt Gun? All I’ve seen is Bolt Gun related hosts. The one article at TFB mentioned nothing about a gas gun. I didn’t have time to read the second doubly long article

That’s why I said “I may be wrong here...”

And how am I supposed to know, without question, that it’ll function a gasser by looking at a bolt gun photo and a bullet schematic?

You could simply say “No, there’s definitely gas gun potential here”. And I would’ve said “okay thanks”.

[Joelski]

Since bolt guns don't cycle the way the article implies, there you go.

[Sak007]

5765

[fledge]

This must be a prototype of the 338 can or a just pretending to be one.

[mustangfreek]

All the hype

I see nothing good here...Just like Wilson combats new 300 hammr round..lol..just another caliber, stash of billets and expensive ammo ,for what, something’s thats already been done long ago and other calibers.. meh

[fledge]

The gas gun version.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180829/b971fe3e22ea09a8a3cd4be986a3f99b.png

[SINNER]

Found some pics of pretty much the same thing they are claiming as groundbreaking. Lol After seeing those case dimensions I’m even less impressed. Nothing but a Ackley Improved .338 Federal.

.338 Fed with a Noveske barrel
5793

5794

300gr Accubond subsonic and a 200gr tipped copper super.
5795

SilencerCo Big Bore.
5796

[usbp379]

Can this be made from 308 brass?

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[JMJ]

I’d be more interested in seeing development on .358win in the AR308 platform. Much wider array of bullet weights and a more substantial increase in diameter over .308”.

[usbp379]

I’d be more interested in seeing development on .358win in the AR308 platform. Much wider array of bullet weights and a more substantial increase in diameter over .308”.There is a wildcat called the 358 Yeti. It is a similar idea.

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[JMJ]

Seems the yeti is for the AR15 sized frame. The .358 Winchester is an existing cartridge based from the .308 win and is the same OAL, so mag capacity would be the same as .308 in an AR10/LR308 platform.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.358_Winchester

[usbp379]

Seems the yeti is for the AR15 sized frame. The .358 Winchester is an existing cartridge based from the .308 win and is the same OAL, so mag capacity would be the same as .308 in an AR10/LR308 platform.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.358_WinchesterYes. The Yeti is designed to work in an AR15. Still, I imagine it would work okay in an AR10 with something like a Sierra 225gr SBT.

The question is how well the Yeti or Winchester cartridge works in a standard AR10 mag. Will they stack okay and give full mag capacity? This might be why Q went with a .338 bullet.

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[fledge]

Not just stacking but shoulder angle for chambering.

[JMJ]

Yes. The Yeti is designed to work in an AR15. Still, I imagine it would work okay in an AR10 with something like a Sierra 225gr SBT.

The question is how well the Yeti or Winchester cartridge works in a standard AR10 mag. Will they stack okay and give full mag capacity? This might be why Q went with a .338 bullet.

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Ok I can definitely see that.

My interests in most all firearm related things is as a whitetail deer and hog hunter. That said .308 does most everything I’d need, the larger bore aspect draws me in mostly because I had the pleasure of shooting a guys .358win Ruger M77 at a range and was intrigued with how similar the cartridge dimensions were to .308 except for the case neck and bullet diameter. I haven’t loaded a LR308 mag with.358 myself, but it appears Dtech has success with it in large frame AR’s. I’m not currently hand loading so getting ammunition off the shelf has more appeal than wild catting. The .358win is a really hard hitting round, only about 100fps less than .35 Whelen. I’m glad to see more innovation happening in the large frame AR market most of all even if it’s not something I’d personally get into.

[SINNER]

The .338 Federal walks all over the .358 Winchester. Close to 500 ft lbs more muzzle energy correctly hand loaded. In fact the .338 Fed only gives up about 300 ft lbs to a .300 Winmag at the muzzle.

[JMJ]

The .338 Federal walks all over the .358 Winchester. Close to 500 ft lbs more muzzle energy correctly hand loaded. In fact the .338 Fed only gives up about 300 ft lbs to a .300 Winmag at the muzzle.

Damn didn’t realize that, thanks for that info!

[usbp379]

Sounds like the old 338-06 vs 35 Whelen.

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[JMJ]

It’s crazy when reading about folks that have hunted with those four cartridges the two 35 calibers are claimed to kill faster than their kE numbers would make you think. The main draw I’ve got to the .358win is two fold, when I do start handloading it can be loaded with .357 pistol bullets all the way to heavy rifle bullets. The other reason is the two states I hunt allow single shots 35 caliber and larger for primitive weapon deer season. I also rarely encounter shots on game further than 200 yards.

[Joelski]

You bring up something really interesting; the "ethical" shot while hunting. I think this terminology was created by either a bored-ass hunting mag writer, or due to the number of idiots in today's society, it has to spill over into the hunting crowd. They guys I learned to hunt with, if you took a shot you knew you couldn't make, or gutshot an animal on purpose because that's all you had, you would be picking your ass up in pieces because they'd apply a liberal helping of boot to it. Kinda like golf: know your ranges and don't shoot past them.

[JMJ]

You bring up something really interesting; the "ethical" shot while hunting. I think this terminology was created by either a bored-ass hunting mag writer, or due to the number of idiots in today's society, it has to spill over into the hunting crowd. They guys I learned to hunt with, if you took a shot you knew you couldn't make, or gutshot an animal on purpose because that's all you had, you would be picking your ass up in pieces because they'd apply a liberal helping of boot to it. Kinda like golf: know your ranges and don't shoot past them.

I’d say it came about from a combination of both, someone had to clean up behind ole ass shooting Jack O’Conner LoL. Taking quick killing shots was so instilled into me as a kid that I’ve passed on more good bucks than I can count even though most of my hunting’s been with a 7mmRM. And I still can’t help applying that to both hogs and coyotes even though they’re such pests here.

[SINNER]

I’ve killed just about every animal in North America and the bigger diameter bullet myth is horseshit. The only thing that matters is enough energy being deliver at impact to expand the bullet. There is not an animal on this continent I’d hesitate to hunt with a 6.5CM under 700 yards.

[tact]

An arrow works just fine so......

[JMJ]

I’ve killed just about every animal in North America and the bigger diameter bullet myth is horseshit. The only thing that matters is enough energy being deliver at impact to expand the bullet. There is not an animal on this continent I’d hesitate to hunt with a 6.5CM under 700 yards.

I hope I didn’t come off being argumentative or holding your info in disregard! I definitely respect your experience. It’s usually voices like yours that make me look at things more pragmatically.

I think like most folks in this hobby, especially with AR type rifles ability to swap caliber by changing uppers I get caught up in the “next conquest” after each build I’ve done or at least pipe dream about other calibers. Seeing your post makes me think my .308 is good enough for anything I’ll ever hunt in my region. If I honestly build a second upper for my Aero M5 I’m pretty torn between it being a 7mm08 or 6.5 Creedmoor, I slightly lean towards the 7mm08 because I plan to eventually handload and have a 7mmRM I’d be able to share projectiles between and have an easier time with reworking .308 brass.

[JMJ]

An arrow works just fine so......


Very much so! As does a 180gr 10mm at 1250+fps.....

[Joelski]

I kill everything with a pencil. A FUCKING PEN-CIL!!

;)

[usbp379]

I kill everything with a pencil. A FUCKING PEN-CIL!!

;)[emoji106]

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[SINNER]

I hope I didn’t come off being argumentative or holding your info in disregard! I definitely respect your experience. It’s usually voices like yours that make me look at things more pragmatically.

I think like most folks in this hobby, especially with AR type rifles ability to swap caliber by changing uppers I get caught up in the “next conquest” after each build I’ve done or at least pipe dream about other calibers. Seeing your post makes me think my .308 is good enough for anything I’ll ever hunt in my region. If I honestly build a second upper for my Aero M5 I’m pretty torn between it being a 7mm08 or 6.5 Creedmoor, I slightly lean towards the 7mm08 because I plan to eventually handload and have a 7mmRM I’d be able to share projectiles between and have an easier time with reworking .308 brass.

I always come off as argumentative, just ask my wife. Lol I didn’t take it like that at all. I hear the bigger bullet argument at almost every hunting camp I’ve been to. I think most go overboard and their flinching and fear of the shot is the reason they have poor shots.

The 7mm08 is a decent round but honestly the CM is a phenomenal round. I’ve shot or have been beside the shooter for 3 elk kills with the CM in the past 5 years. Including a cow I shot at around 650 yards. One shot kills on all three. The increased velocity from reduced drag really shows on that round past 300 yards.


I kill everything with a pencil. A FUCKING PEN-CIL!!

;)

Especially the English language. [:)]

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I kill everything with a pencil. A FUCKING PEN-CIL!!

;)

Great movie scene.

[JMJ]

I always come off as argumentative, just ask my wife. Lol I didn’t take it like that at all. I hear the bigger bullet argument at almost every hunting camp I’ve been to. I think most go overboard and their flinching and fear of the shot is the reason they have poor shots.

The 7mm08 is a decent round but honestly the CM is a phenomenal round. I’ve shot or have been beside the shooter for 3 elk kills with the CM in the past 5 years. Including a cow I shot at around 650 yards. One shot kills on all three. The increased velocity from reduced drag really shows on that round past 300 yards.


Especially the English language. [:)]


Damn I’ve been trying to avoid the 6.5CM, that sort of performance is gonna drive me over the edge LoL! I like the idea of a very efficient round like that for hunting. Even though I own a magnum hunting round ( I was encouraged by my dad to get it since he had one and received it as a graduation gift) I think it’s overkill for the terrain I hunt now vs the freshwater marshes I hunt led then. The Creedmoor does seem like it was designed by some very logical minds.


Oh damn LoL!

[fledge]

How about 6.5CM at 1500yds?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181010/71ebf524ae30f581d1c99bf41da63dfd.png

[Slippers]

That doesn't seem like an ethical shot. It would be really easy to wound the animal.

[fledge]

That doesn't seem like an ethical shot. It would be really easy to wound the animal.

I agree. They say as much in the comments. But they also speak to shooters experience.

Either way, more people are taking 500+ shots with the .65CM on elk without an issue. Just a couple years ago, that was considered absurd.