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Stickman
4 April 2009, 14:02
Slings are an item that we can all see a need for, and we can all go about different methods for the same end goal.



What sling are you using?

How do you have it set up?

Why did you go this route?



http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Parts%2C%20Mags%20%26%20Bayonets/Weapon%20parts/IMG_7985%201028%20Stick.jpg

rob_s
4 April 2009, 15:52
I've been using a Boonie-Packer 1-1/4" 2P-TQA 2-point sling (http://www.redi-mag.com/Shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=10&idcategory=7). Boonie Packer sent me several slings to T&E, and this is one of them. At first I was very skeptical due to the price, but frankly I've been very happy with it, and it fits well with my reversion therapy of late. I've used the BFG Vickers & Victory, and the Viking 2-point as well and find this $15 sling from Boonie Packer to work just as well for me as those other options costing as much as 4x as much.


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/BCM/DSC_2955-1.jpg

Paulo_Santos
4 April 2009, 16:38
I pretty much have tried every sling out there. After trying the various 1-point, 2-point, and 3-point slings, I always wound up going back to the Viking Tactics Padded 2-point sling.
I have the rear attached to the top section on the E-Mod stock and the front all the way forward on the MRP with a QD adapter.

After trying the various types of slings, I decided that the 2-Point slings are better for me, so I just had to decide which one.
I want a sling that has a quick adjust, can be used as a shooting aid, and has enough slack that I can transition from strong to weak side. The V-TAC is the only one that does all three so I prefer it to the others I tried. The new knew come with a little velcro strap the secures the tail so it doesn't flop around.

Gray
4 April 2009, 20:57
I use a Viking Tactics Mk 1 (without the padding) on a DD M4 connected to the end-plate and rail swivels.

I am paleo school. Started with para cord circa 1970 (and an Armson OEG), then went to a bungee type single point (home-made) in the 80's & 90's (with ACOG's and Aimpoint 3000). Then to webbing single point...and now to a 2 point (VTAC).

zero7one
4 April 2009, 22:17
I am currently using a Viking Tactics Original Sling with a Daniel Defense QD rail mount and a Daniel Defense Carbine Burnsed Loop (Right Hand) to the rear.

I was never really a fan of single point slings and I liked the comfort of the padding and the ease that the VTAC can be adjusted. Also, the price was right for the time.

However, now that I have seen the MagPul MS2 Sling and ASAP, I think that I may be making the switch.

Ryo
4 April 2009, 23:48
Currently I'm using a BFG single point sling. I use both the HK hook and the push button, and either one works fine. (I have different setups on different AR's to see when I like the most)

I got a VTAC 2 point sling.. but just feels sloppy to me since I haven't used 2 point forever. I plan to continue trying to us it to see if I like it, but really haven't had the chance to use it.. which is probably why I feel it's sloppy and/or uncomfortable.

OfcPowder
9 April 2009, 11:26
I'm using a Vickers Combat Application 2 point sling. This was recommended to me by a coworker who knows his stuff. Very nice, quick adjust when I'm deploying my rifle on duty. Very high quality too. I tried the TT 3 point sling, but there was just too much material getting in the way, but it worked great on my Mini-14. I haven't tried a single point sling yet, and hope to soon.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z91/jwilliams028/DSC_1199.jpg

TOM1911
10 April 2009, 07:40
I'm currently running a BFG VCAS 2pt with a DD Q/D forend attach and a MI ambi Q/D rear attach but, I just got a Magpul ASAP plate and I'm sort of impatiently waiting for the MS2 in FDE to come back. :mad:

NickDrak
10 April 2009, 21:46
I am a recent convert to the Magpul ASAP/MS2 sling combo. I decided to try it out for a couple of reasons....

For one, I always preferred using a single point sling during shooting/training sessions as the single point sling always gave me the most freedom of movement with my carbine when shooting from all of the different positions (strong side/weak side barricades, prone/urban prone, etc.).


For police work (actually carrying the carbine on-duty), I found the dedicated single point sling to be useless when I actually needed to sling my carbine up for hands-on activities such as handcuffing, climbing through & over obstacles, etc. It was then I decided to switch to the VCAS two-point sling. It is a great sling, but I found my weapon manipulations (reloading, non-standard position shooting, etc.) suffered a bit using the dedicated two-point sling.

When the Magpul MS2 sling/ASAP receiver plate combo came along, I was curious to see if it indeed did offer the best of both worlds (single point & two-point). So far I am completely convinced that it does, and I am absolutely please with this sling set-up.

I carry it as designed in single point mode, and transition to two-point mode when I need to sling the carbine up for activities other than shooting & carbine manipulations.

I have mine set up in conjunction with a CQD forward sling mount located toward the muzzle end of my LaRue 11.0 "Goose-neck" rail.

The material used on the MS2 sling is very comfortable, and the lack of padding on this sling has not bothered me at all to this point.

All of the hardware on the sling feels very solid as well and functions as advertised.

zippygaloo
10 April 2009, 23:33
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3433062154_d34e5e312d.jpg


I put a lot of thought into this for my personal comfort and ease of use. I thought I would share some of my findings.

GEAR: (I'm a right hander. 14.5" Carbine.)
*BlueForce Gear Vickers VCAS Sling (Padded Version)
*Midwest Industries MCTAR-08HD Heavy Duty Quick Detach Front Sling Swivel
*Magpul CTR (using the integrated Swivel Socket with a Midwest Industries Heavy Duty Sling Swivel)
*Vertical Grip (this is an important part of my setup and I use it in a non-chicken choking fashion; i.e. hand in front, thumb pointing up. I suggest trying it for yourself with and without the VFG).

I was experimenting with this gear trying to find the perfect setup and I made some great discoveries. If you have the VCAS or similar 2 point sling, I encourage you to try out my chosen configuration. I think I found a great setup. It really works great on a number of levels. Let me explain.

Let me just say that I tried all possible configurations (excluding the "B" position) and ended up using "C" and " Opposite Side E". Here's why I chose "C" and "Opposite Side E"...

First, I removed my swivel mount at position "D" and swapped my charging handle Tac-Latch out for a standard latch so the gun would lay nice and flat across my front (this is a big plus for control, snag-free and comfort reasons). Now, standing face forward with my feet shoulder width apart in a casual stance (i.e. a normal standing position) with the gun dangling in front of me, slightly slanted (in the position it naturally lays when all of the slack is taken out of the VCAS sling at the attachment points), I asked myself what I would ultimately desire if I had to deploy the weapon in a hurry. Here's what I came up with...

1. Must be able to grab the gun with my hands immediately in their ready to fire positions without any fumbling or fighting obstacles.
2. Must be able to raise the gun up to my eye and immediately get on target without any strain or awkward positioning.
3. Must be able to engage a target at my 9 O'Clock, 12 O'Clock and 3 O'Clock without moving my feet (i.e. pivot/swing from one side to the other) and without any strain, pulling, tugging, awkward positioning, etc. (I realize we move our feet in stressful situations, but this test actually helps determine our level of mobility before we need to move)
4. Must be able to transition to my support side quickly and without struggle.

I encourage you to try to see if you can achieve these points with your current setup and not be fighting your sling to some degree. With my chosen setup the sling becomes part of the gun in a way I had not previously experienced.

Let me also say that any of the position points feel OK when the gun is laying across your body. A&D ride slightly higher than C&E by a very small amount (what is it 6" or so) but it is not worth the fumbling, straining and awkward positions trade-off to use them.

Negatives of "A" and "D":
1. When deploying the gun to a target at 9,12 or 3 my left hand encounters the front sling swivel and I have to avoid it (and thus fumble over or under etc.) FAIL
2. When deploying the gun it is difficult to raise it up to my eye without encountering tension and thus having to bring my eye down to it. If the stock is extended it is nearly impossible to raise it up to my eye without struggling with the sling (slack). FAIL
3. When on target the gun is somewhat comfortable and feels solid, but is not very manuverable. And with the stock extended it's neither comfortable nor maneuverable. FAIL
4. Transition to support side is nearly impossible without fighting the sling and it rubbing on your neck. FAIL

Negatives of "A and "E"
1. When deploying the gun to any target at 9,12 or 3 my left hand encounters the front sling swivel and I have to avoid it (and thus fumble over or under etc.) FAIL
2. When deploying the gun the sling rubs against my neck. If I swing from my 9 to my 3 there is more rubbing. FAIL
3. When on target the gun is somewhat comfortable, but not very manuverable. And with the stock extended it's neither comfortable nor manuverable. FAIL
4. Transition to support side is difficult without fighting the sling and it rubbing on your neck. FAIL

Negatives of "C" and "E"
1. When deploying the gun it raises to the eye very nicely, but the sling rubs against my neck. If I swing from my 9 to my 3 there is more rubbing. FAIL
2. When I transition to my support side I fight the CTR sling swivel wrapping around on the inside of my neck. FAIL

Positives of "C" and "Opposite Side E" - SUCCESS
1. When I deploy the gun my hands are immediately in their ready to fire positions without any fumbling or obstacles.
2. I am able to raise the gun up to my eye and immediately get on target without any strain or awkward positioning.
3. I am able to engage a target at my 9 O'Clock, 12 O'Clock and 3 O'Clock without moving my feet and without any strain, pulling, tugging, awkward positioning, etc.
4. When I swing from my 9 to my 3 there is no rubbing on my neck from the sling!
5. When I transition to my support side I can either 1) Keep my hands in there respective positions and just bring the gun over. Or, 2) transition very easily to my support side, very fast and without fighting the CTR sling swivel wrapping around on the inside of my neck. Big Plus! The transition only requires one move for each hand (vs two moves each as with other transition methods). First my right hand moves forward from the pistol grip to the backside of my VFG (thumb slips into my palm of my left hand and chicken chokes the VFG, then my left hand, which is in front of the VFG, comes off and pulls back on the tab on the sling (lengthening it) and then immediately goes to the pistol grip (no arm ducking under the sling), then the buttstock is transitioned from my right shoulder to my left shoulder. One option is to use the VFG to move the buttstock over before the left hand lands on the pistol grip. Either method works well.
6. Gun swings behind you very easy if you need to use your hands.
7. Is comfortable with the stock extended to any position.
8. Very comfortable African-Style Carry, Military Patrol Carry and On-Your-Back (out of the way) Carry.

Negatives of "C" and "Opposite Side E"
1. No US G.I. Carry

I guarantee you that if you go "C" and "Opposite Side E" you will be able to...

1. Deploy the gun with your hands immediately in there ready to fire positions without any fumbling or obstacles.
2. Raise the gun up to your eye and immediately get on target without any strain, awkward positioning.
3. Engage a target at your 9 O'Clock, 12 O'Clock and 3 O'Clock without any strain, pulling, tugging, awkward positioning, etc. (and from a planted foot position if ever needed).
4. Easily maneuver the weapon in any direction without struggle or the sling rubbing your neck.
5. Transition to your support side very fast and without struggle or the sling rubbing your neck.
6. Comfortably use the stock extended to any position.

tac40
14 April 2009, 06:24
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu319/horseplay/IMG_4379.jpg

I had been using the VTAC sling on my duty/personal AR. I am a left handed shooter and at times struggle with the sling doing transitioning from L to R, prone, etc. To do a transition with the VTAC sling, losing the sling, drop your arm from the sling and rotate to transition side.

When shooting with the VTAC sling attached as a L/H shooter, there were times the empty casings would hit the sling and creating a problem for me, so the 2 pt sling was a problem for me.

I recently switch to the new Magpul MS2 sling and ambi sling attachment pt. This sling can be either a single pt or 2 pt sling. The receiver end plate is replaced with the Magpul plate and there is a small loop shape bar which allows the sling attchment-via clip, to swivel from side to side. You can release yourself from the receiver plate via the cord release that pulls on the metal clip. The Magpul sling is a quick learner.

I had been running this for a week now and this works better for me, I'm quicker with the transitions from L to R. The VTAC was a padded sling whereas the Magpul is not. From the comfort level, this was not a issue.

gymguy
28 May 2009, 17:06
[QUOTE=zippygaloo;8842]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3433062154_d34e5e312d.jpg


I put a lot of thought into this for my personal comfort and ease of use. I thought I would share some of my findings.

Positives of "C" and "Opposite Side E" - SUCCESS[/B][/COLOR]
1. When I deploy the gun my hands are immediately in their ready to fire positions without any fumbling or obstacles.
2. I am able to raise the gun up to my eye and immediately get on target without any strain or awkward positioning.
3. I am able to engage a target at my 9 O'Clock, 12 O'Clock and 3 O'Clock without moving my feet and without any strain, pulling, tugging, awkward positioning, etc.
4. When I swing from my 9 to my 3 there is no rubbing on my neck from the sling!
5. When I transition to my support side I can either 1) Keep my hands in there respective positions and just bring the gun over. Or, 2) transition very easily to my support side, very fast and without fighting the CTR sling swivel wrapping around on the inside of my neck. Big Plus! The transition only requires one move for each hand (vs two moves each as with other transition methods). First my right hand moves forward from the pistol grip to the backside of my VFG (thumb slips into my palm of my left hand and chicken chokes the VFG, then my left hand, which is in front of the VFG, comes off and pulls back on the tab on the sling (lengthening it) and then immediately goes to the pistol grip (no arm ducking under the sling), then the buttstock is transitioned from my right shoulder to my left shoulder. One option is to use the VFG to move the buttstock over before the left hand lands on the pistol grip. Either method works well.
6. Gun swings behind you very easy if you need to use your hands.
7. Is comfortable with the stock extended to any position.
8. Very comfortable African-Style Carry, Military Patrol Carry and On-Your-Back (out of the way) Carry.

Negatives of "C" and "Opposite Side E"
1. No US G.I. Carry

Outstanding analysis. I would like to see a video of you transitioning to the support side using the "C to opposite side E" or maybe stills of the transition.

walt_p99
29 May 2009, 00:16
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3657/3433062154_d34e5e312d.jpg


I put a lot of thought into this for my personal comfort and ease of use. I thought I would share some of my findings.

GEAR: (I'm a right hander. 14.5" Carbine.)
*BlueForce Gear Vickers VCAS Sling (Padded Version)
*Midwest Industries MCTAR-08HD Heavy Duty Quick Detach Front Sling Swivel
*Magpul CTR (using the integrated Swivel Socket with a Midwest Industries Heavy Duty Sling Swivel)
*Vertical Grip (this is an important part of my setup and I use it in a non-chicken choking fashion; i.e. hand in front, thumb pointing up. I suggest trying it for yourself with and without the VFG).

I was experimenting with this gear trying to find the perfect setup and I made some great discoveries. If you have the VCAS or similar 2 point sling, I encourage you to try out my chosen configuration. I think I found a great setup. It really works great on a number of levels. Let me explain.

Let me just say that I tried all possible configurations (excluding the "B" position) and ended up using "C" and " Opposite Side E". Here's why I chose "C" and "Opposite Side E"...

First, I removed my swivel mount at position "D" and swapped my charging handle Tac-Latch out for a standard latch so the gun would lay nice and flat across my front (this is a big plus for control, snag-free and comfort reasons). Now, standing face forward with my feet shoulder width apart in a casual stance (i.e. a normal standing position) with the gun dangling in front of me, slightly slanted (in the position it naturally lays when all of the slack is taken out of the VCAS sling at the attachment points), I asked myself what I would ultimately desire if I had to deploy the weapon in a hurry. Here's what I came up with...

1. Must be able to grab the gun with my hands immediately in their ready to fire positions without any fumbling or fighting obstacles.
2. Must be able to raise the gun up to my eye and immediately get on target without any strain or awkward positioning.
3. Must be able to engage a target at my 9 O'Clock, 12 O'Clock and 3 O'Clock without moving my feet (i.e. pivot/swing from one side to the other) and without any strain, pulling, tugging, awkward positioning, etc. (I realize we move our feet in stressful situations, but this test actually helps determine our level of mobility before we need to move)
4. Must be able to transition to my support side quickly and without struggle.

I encourage you to try to see if you can achieve these points with your current setup and not be fighting your sling to some degree. With my chosen setup the sling becomes part of the gun in a way I had not previously experienced.

Let me also say that any of the position points feel OK when the gun is laying across your body. A&D ride slightly higher than C&E by a very small amount (what is it 6" or so) but it is not worth the fumbling, straining and awkward positions trade-off to use them.

Negatives of "A" and "D":
1. When deploying the gun to a target at 9,12 or 3 my left hand encounters the front sling swivel and I have to avoid it (and thus fumble over or under etc.) FAIL
2. When deploying the gun it is difficult to raise it up to my eye without encountering tension and thus having to bring my eye down to it. If the stock is extended it is nearly impossible to raise it up to my eye without struggling with the sling (slack). FAIL
3. When on target the gun is somewhat comfortable and feels solid, but is not very manuverable. And with the stock extended it's neither comfortable nor maneuverable. FAIL
4. Transition to support side is nearly impossible without fighting the sling and it rubbing on your neck. FAIL

Negatives of "A and "E"
1. When deploying the gun to any target at 9,12 or 3 my left hand encounters the front sling swivel and I have to avoid it (and thus fumble over or under etc.) FAIL
2. When deploying the gun the sling rubs against my neck. If I swing from my 9 to my 3 there is more rubbing. FAIL
3. When on target the gun is somewhat comfortable, but not very manuverable. And with the stock extended it's neither comfortable nor manuverable. FAIL
4. Transition to support side is difficult without fighting the sling and it rubbing on your neck. FAIL

Negatives of "C" and "E"
1. When deploying the gun it raises to the eye very nicely, but the sling rubs against my neck. If I swing from my 9 to my 3 there is more rubbing. FAIL
2. When I transition to my support side I fight the CTR sling swivel wrapping around on the inside of my neck. FAIL

Positives of "C" and "Opposite Side E" - SUCCESS
1. When I deploy the gun my hands are immediately in their ready to fire positions without any fumbling or obstacles.
2. I am able to raise the gun up to my eye and immediately get on target without any strain or awkward positioning.
3. I am able to engage a target at my 9 O'Clock, 12 O'Clock and 3 O'Clock without moving my feet and without any strain, pulling, tugging, awkward positioning, etc.
4. When I swing from my 9 to my 3 there is no rubbing on my neck from the sling!
5. When I transition to my support side I can either 1) Keep my hands in there respective positions and just bring the gun over. Or, 2) transition very easily to my support side, very fast and without fighting the CTR sling swivel wrapping around on the inside of my neck. Big Plus! The transition only requires one move for each hand (vs two moves each as with other transition methods). First my right hand moves forward from the pistol grip to the backside of my VFG (thumb slips into my palm of my left hand and chicken chokes the VFG, then my left hand, which is in front of the VFG, comes off and pulls back on the tab on the sling (lengthening it) and then immediately goes to the pistol grip (no arm ducking under the sling), then the buttstock is transitioned from my right shoulder to my left shoulder. One option is to use the VFG to move the buttstock over before the left hand lands on the pistol grip. Either method works well.
6. Gun swings behind you very easy if you need to use your hands.
7. Is comfortable with the stock extended to any position.
8. Very comfortable African-Style Carry, Military Patrol Carry and On-Your-Back (out of the way) Carry.

Negatives of "C" and "Opposite Side E"
1. No US G.I. Carry

I guarantee you that if you go "C" and "Opposite Side E" you will be able to...

1. Deploy the gun with your hands immediately in there ready to fire positions without any fumbling or obstacles.
2. Raise the gun up to your eye and immediately get on target without any strain, awkward positioning.
3. Engage a target at your 9 O'Clock, 12 O'Clock and 3 O'Clock without any strain, pulling, tugging, awkward positioning, etc. (and from a planted foot position if ever needed).
4. Easily maneuver the weapon in any direction without struggle or the sling rubbing your neck.
5. Transition to your support side very fast and without struggle or the sling rubbing your neck.
6. Comfortably use the stock extended to any position.

hi, i'm a newbie here. just want to ask if you have tried changing mags while your sling is attached to points "C" and "E"? would'nt the end of your sling attached to point "C" get in the way? how about reaching for the bolt catch after changing mags, is it clear if the sling? thanks.

Stickman
29 May 2009, 07:17
hi, i'm a newbie here. just want to ask if you have tried changing mags while your sling is attached to points "C" and "E"? would'nt the end of your sling attached to point "C" get in the way? how about reaching for the bolt catch after changing mags, is it clear if the sling? thanks.



Walt,

Welcome to the board. There are no problems with magazine changes when the sling is mounted at point "C", the sling is up enough that it doesn't get in the way.

I use sling points "C" and "D" for my duty carbine, and it works very well. I don't care for position "E" for my own needs, mainly because if you adjust the stock, you are also adjusting the sling.

walt_p99
29 May 2009, 17:01
Walt,

Welcome to the board. There are no problems with magazine changes when the sling is mounted at point "C", the sling is up enough that it doesn't get in the way.

I use sling points "C" and "D" for my duty carbine, and it works very well. I don't care for position "E" for my own needs, mainly because if you adjust the stock, you are also adjusting the sling.

stickman,

thanks alot. i hope i could learn more from you guys.

TehLlama
30 May 2009, 10:12
Hmm... seems to justify my transition to going Opposite E and elevated C

Stickman
30 May 2009, 10:17
stickman,

thanks alot. i hope i could learn more from you guys.



Guys on this board are here to help, not push egos or self serving interests. The biggest thing to remember is that what I did in the military, or what I do and teach as a city cop, may not be what works best for you. Take in what info you can, then work on what will fill YOUR needs best.

Policetacteam
31 May 2009, 03:27
I'm curious if anyone has tried the Magpul ASAP end plate with a Gear Sector single point sling / H&K hook? Thats the set-up I'm about to try. Any comments for those who have or are currently using this set-up!?!

jlate
31 May 2009, 08:32
Can or has anyone configured the MS2 sling with a UBR?

Thanks Jlate

Stickman
31 May 2009, 13:25
Can or has anyone configured the MS2 sling with a UBR?

Thanks Jlate



I've used it with the front QD socket as the mount point.

103m 95g
6 June 2009, 14:07
I use sling points "C" and "D" for my duty carbine, and it works very well.

I am currently trying these attachment locations on my DDM4 using a Blue force Vickers 2pt sling. I like it much better than just using "D" with a gear sector ASP sling.

CAPT KIRK
30 June 2009, 14:35
I have used 1,2 and 3 point slings. I have found that a good adjustable 2 point sling works best for me in the following configuration.

If you attach the stock end of a 2 point sling at the rear of the reciever where a single point would attach, then you can transition from strong/support side with it just like you would a single point.

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo355/DEPKIRK/P6290001.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo355/DEPKIRK/P6290006.jpg

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo355/DEPKIRK/P6290004.jpg


Mount the other end fairley far forward on the front end of the rifle and you still have the ability to wrap into it good for supported shooting and the spacing between the two mounting points is sufficient to give good stability in carry.

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo355/DEPKIRK/P6290002.jpg

When you throw it over your back (muzzle down) and cinch it up (adjustable 2pt) then the gun rides up higher because the upper end of the sling is now attached to the back of the reciever, keeping the muzzle outa the dirt etc.

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo355/DEPKIRK/P6290008.jpg

Just my experience and 2 1/2 cents..

CCK
30 June 2009, 15:44
Capt Kirk,
Is that a accurate shooting position for you?

Chris

CAPT KIRK
30 June 2009, 17:41
Capt Kirk,
Is that a accurate shooting position for you?

Chris

Granted in the pictures I was a little "loose" but yes..... Just got back from a Spartan Tactical class where I was hitting a steel "E" silouete target at 300yds while in that same general "Standing Off Hand" position. I learned a lot about good practical combat shooting positions and stance from Jim Smith.....

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=33049

CCK
2 July 2009, 17:36
I didn't realize anyone taught anything but nose to charging handle. Thanks for the link!

Chris

cmoore
2 July 2009, 18:04
I'm running a Spectre 3-point on the M4. I had a TAG 3-point, and now that's on my Benelli M1.

We do a lot of maritime enforcement, climbing ladders, over railings, etc. The versatility of the sling works well for me. I can toss it over my back during climbing.

I have it tensioned just enough so that I can get prone without having to get out of the sling, or taking a support-side stance if I need to.

CAPT KIRK
3 July 2009, 09:37
I didn't realize anyone taught anything but nose to charging handle. Thanks for the link!

Chris

"Nosing" the charging handle kinda dates back to when we stood bladed at a 45% angle with our support hand farther back on the forarm. This tended to put the weapon more across the front of our body. 'Nosing" the charging handle was taught in the military to give GI's a uniform place for their stock/cheek weld.

I used to do it myself but found that when now shooting from a more squared up "Isocoles" position (to present body armor squared up and forward to the threat) my cheek does not naturally weld up that far.

In my recent class with Spartan Tactical Jim Smith downplayed "nosing up to the charging handle" in favor of a good comfortable/natural position. You can see in this picture of Jim and John that niether are getting their noses dirty.


http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo355/DEPKIRK/JimnJohn.jpg

zippygaloo
20 August 2009, 12:39
Update on my earlier post.

As described above, I use a BlueForce Gear Vickers VCAS Sling (Padded Version) and really like it.

Lately I've been observing the Magpul MS2 Sling and ASAP Plate in use. It appears to offer both single and two-point sling options (albeit the two-point option doesn't look as comfortable as the VCAS two-point. But I don't have any first hand experience with it, so it may very well be comfortable).

Anyway, on to my point. I've discovered a way to use my VCAS sling as a two-point/single point setup..."Double E". Here's what I did...

I have a Magpul CTR stock and two Heavy Duty Quick Release Sling Swivels. I just connected one on each side of the CTR stock. "Double E". That's it. Now this setup is not a single point sling (because it requires two sling swivels and two mounting sockets), but it wears and functions very similar to a single point sling setup and transitions just as easy. Plus it is quick release so it can easily go back to my "C" and "Opposite Side E" configuration. There are only a few minor differences to note.

1. Obviously it connects at two points not just a single point.
2. Because the attach points are at the rear of the sling it sits a few inches lower (but still comfortable). I find that the pistol grip of the gun is slightly above my waistline at near the same level as my secondary weapon.

Mute
21 August 2009, 10:43
I've been testing the Magpul MS2 (prveviously using VCAS) and so far I like it. Only a couple of minor nitpicks. I think it would be better with thicker webbing, more comfortable over the long haul. Second, after transitioning to 2 point mode, tightening the sling is a little tough. The adjustment loop doesn't move as freely as it does on the VCAS.

Other than that, I like being able to use it as a single point because switching between strong and support side is much easier. The only time I use 2 point mode is when I'm moving it back to carry so the amount of time I need to transition between 1 point to 2 point is not an issue.

FYI. I'm using the sling along with the ASAP plate. Love the ASAP plate.

nc12215
26 August 2009, 11:01
I have a Vickers Combat Application Sling in a two point configuration attached at "E" and "C". It works very well in civvies and is solid to shoot from.
I utilize Magpul ASAP/MS2 on my department SWAT rifle. The ability to transition from one configuration to another and adjust for heavy armor or soft vests is great. It is mounted at "D" and "A" or just "D".
Dave

Thomas M-4
26 August 2009, 16:21
I use VCAS with QD push buttons. DD railmounted qd attachment point in the A position and opposite side E postion on my CTR buttstock.

tracksol
5 September 2009, 15:03
I still have yet to use my carbine, since I'm deployed, but on my issue M16A2 I have tried several slings over the years for general carry and training. The most I've experimenting I've done is just before my current deployment when the USAF sent me to train with the Army for 5 weeks and here that I get the chance to "travel" a lot.

Everyone pretty much agrees that the stock sling and mount points suck on a rifle or M4 carbine with GI stock for anything other than slinging it over your shoulder muzzle up or down with the weapon completely vertical. Slinging it across your front or back diagonally will cause it to twist and dig into your stomach/back.

Lately they have been swapping out the original 2 point sling for a 3 point. That is the sling you will see most people have out here. I hate it. There is too much material in the way, most are designed for right handed shooters since webbing goes alongside the entire rifle, and no matter how you adjust it, the weapon just flops around with a mind of it's own.

What I did during the Army training, since all of our weapon classes were with body armor on, was to take the sternum strap off from my Spec OPS The PACK backpack and convert it for use into an improvised "wolf hook". I put one end on my armor, and the other end around the rear portion of the 3 point sling that goes around the fixed butt stock. This worked pretty good until we were done with classes and I had to carry the weapon around. I fixed that by putting the section that was on my armor onto the D ring on my Army issued assault back pack and just walked around with my weapon and backpack (i hate having things in my pockets).

When I got to my deployment location, I would switch between the 3 point and improvised wolf hook when I would have to travel. I'm a minimalist, and although I've seen others just take their 3 point and snap it into a carabiner that was on their armor, I didn't like the excess material. What I then did was hack away at my issued 3 point sling and converted it to a 2 point sling, but used the extra buckles and what not so that it's quickly detatchable on the rear and can transition to the wolf hook end on my armor. For the front, I looped it around itself on a tri glide and in the loop put a small cheap carabiner and cliped that onto the rear portion of the front sight post. That worked okay but then I wanted a cleaner solution. They sold the Tangodown Sling mount for fixed stocks at the PX so I bought it. It's easy to install, and works as intended, but with my 2 point sling the weapon hung lower and was always forward away from my torso. With the sling end mounted near the butt of the stock it would pull the rifle tight close against the body. So I took off the tango down mount and have yet to return it.
I then started searching online and came across the Military Morons website and read about the Gunslinger Sling from Emdom. It's and adjustable 2 point sling with a small rear web section with tri glide and female buckle. The rest of the sling has a male buckle, goes into fat seatbelt webbing, then down to 1" webing, has a quick adjustable section, and then finally to an ITW Mash Hook. For now, I wrapped some paracord around the front sight post so I can connect the mash hook. I then also have their URS single point rig mount sling that is quick adjustable for length and uses the same buckles. So when I put my armor on, I disconnect the gunslinger sling from the rifle, and then just clip it on to the single point rig mount.

For my home carbine, I probably primarily use the rig mounted single point strap. I've pretty much decided that my active shooter setup will be a MOLLE tactical vest, like the current USGI one, so I'll attach it to that. I'll probably connect it to the receiver using the Magpul ASAP.

Sorry for the lengthy write up. Better pictures could be found here:

http://militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.slings.html#gunslinger
http://militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.slings.html#urs

TRY#geaGR.
16 September 2009, 08:08
I've only tied 3 differant slings ,but I really like Urban-E.R.T slings. For me I don't like a padded sling when I've already have an inch of layers on already. They Put the extra effort into their slings where it counts.urbanertslings.com[adore]

HeavyDuty
23 January 2010, 12:15
kwrangln infected me with Boonie Packeritis. Here are three of my carbines with variations of the basic $16 Boonie Packer TQA quick adjust two point sling:

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/TQA-125-M4.jpg
KISS with M4 stock connector - the front is mounted to a M4-type side sling point. This is a 1.25" version. Simple, effective, comfortable.



http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/TQA-15-M4.jpg
A MOE carbine with my WECSOG front sling loop. It's a 1.5" model with the M4 stock connector, I used a MASH on the front. A very quick, comfy, stable sling!



http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/TQA-Modified-2-Point.jpg
http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/TQA-Modified-1-Point.jpg
Here's a 1.25" TQA to which I added 1" HK hooks front and rear to make a basic 1/2 point convertible. Same front sling point as the other MOE, Magpul ASAP on the rear. It works a lot better than I expected it would in both evolutions, I'm very happy with the results, and I think this version is my new standard sling for ARs.

AR-10
29 July 2010, 14:00
I had two questions pertaining to my new sling and this thread just answered both of them.

This is quite possibly the best source of info on the web.

AR-10
3 August 2010, 15:46
Ok, I got my sling swivel and was able to try out my new VCAS - seems I still have questions and I didn't want to start another whole thread.

I have the sling attached to the rear QD socket on my MRF handguard, and I'm using one of the slots in my SOPMOD.

I don't like how low it hangs, and I also don't like how the sling tension changes if you adjust the buttstock.

Here's my proposed solution, but it's a clamp-on adaptor:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4548/43309884.png

H&K hooks are what I originally wanted, and now that I'm going with TangoDown rail panels and a Gear Sector light mount, I can also get a Gear Sector H&K loop that mounts flush with the TD panels.

Are these clamp-on type adaptors any good? I've seen some receiver end plates that have integral loops for H&K hooks but I'd prefer not to have to replace my end plate since I don't even have a carbine stock wrench.

applevalleyjoe
16 August 2010, 13:54
I use the Magpul MS2 in the single-point configuration attached to a Magpul ASAP ambi end plate. Works fine for me.

Fred_G
16 August 2010, 16:00
I have a Specter sling. It is either a CST or CQB model. I have the instructions, cannot fathom how this thing is supposed to work...

Tactical Ninja
17 August 2010, 01:07
I started using a blueforce gear 3 point that I had QD swivels attached too. One going in the QD socket on the UBR and the other to a Midwest Industries QD rail mount. After a little while and talking with a few friends at my local shop I decided that this wasn't the sling for me. So then I tried the MS2 SLING just attaching it to my QD socket in my UBR. The forward QD rail mount didn't seem to work anymore, so I have just been running a one point at the moment. Until the RSA from Magpul is released.
In my opinion QD swivel are a little to noisy.

BobinLaConner
11 February 2011, 16:37
This is such a great source of "real" information without the attitude found on other sites...great posts guys. I am in the hunt for the right 2 point sling. I have narrowed it down to the VTAC padded sling (the one from Larue) and the Vickers Blueforce padded Sling with the QR swivels. Looking at them, the Vickers seems to have a more simple "handle" to adjust the sling while the VTAC uses the free "tail end" of the strap, which could leave a long strap to get tangled. Anyone have experience with both that can recommend one or the other?

Hmac
11 February 2011, 17:14
I have both the VTAC and the VCAS. No question the VTAC has an excess material problem. I've never had it get tangled, but it does get annoying. OTOH, it slides and adjusts easily. The VCAS is simpler. Mine is the one with the QD swivels sewn in. No excess material to deal with at all, but the material and slider are such that it doesn't adjust quite as easily as the VTAC.

I haven't used the VCAS much - no training courses or anything since I got it, so I don't know if the slider loosens up as it wears. I suspect it will...I hope so because from a configuration standpoint I prefer it to the VTAC.

Rodman24
11 February 2011, 21:39
I've been trying something new with the VTAC from LaRue. I have a Magpul UBR and I'm using working with 2 scenarios - the 2 pt set up and what is effectively a single point set up. Rather than trying to explain the "single point" set up, this photo can better explain it.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5099/5437423411_8edcfe98b9_z.jpg

The tail of the sling when tightened for this position is sort of long, but I haven't found it to be that annoying.

For the 2pt I'm actually sending the sling through the back of the UBR and around to the left hand QD mount. I shoot left handed and this gets the sling out of the way of my face.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5131/5437424703_496c4c4e72_z.jpg

I have a Troy 13" rail and I'm using the QD mount rail at 6 o'clock instead of 3. This allows me to weave my wrist through in order to apply pressure for a more stable off hand shooting position.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/5438032918_32bd4ab86c_z.jpg
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1dc30b3127ccefc03a33e210c00000030O00CctHLds0Ysw e3nwg/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Not a real quick transition from 2 to 1(ish) set up, but...

I know this looks kind of insane, but for off hand shooting it works well as the weight is transferred through the sling and makes for a more stable platform.

Rodman24
11 February 2011, 21:52
Two more points of interest for the 2 point set up:

When you let it hang, it's held very close to your body.

The 6 o'clock QD mount in the front doesn't effect mag changes, because as you bring your hand back, the sling stays under and in front of the hand. Once a fresh mag is in, there's enough slack in the sling to simply bring your hand straight forward and into position on the rail.

OutlawDon
13 February 2011, 21:02
I'm still learning and researching about slings.

What would be the pros/cons when a sling is attached to the rear via the end plate method vs when it's attached directly to the buttstock instead?

Also, anyone see this yet? Looks like a nice setup...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xmYaU4Y4dg

Rodman24
14 February 2011, 10:41
For me it's more about comfort in transitioning from one shoulder to the next.

I have yet to find the set up that's perfect (for me). On that note, the set up I was working with the on the UBR (above), will be classified as a FAIL. Moving back to a more traditional set up. Gotta keep trying.

AR-10
14 February 2011, 20:34
I'm still learning and researching about slings.

What would be the pros/cons when a sling is attached to the rear via the end plate method vs when it's attached directly to the buttstock instead?

Also, anyone see this yet? Looks like a nice setup...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xmYaU4Y4dg

I would also like input on this sling, I posted this video in another thread not realizing it was already in this one.

Does anyone here have one of these?

tpelle
24 May 2013, 16:25
I've tried several different slings, and decided that I preferred a 2-point top-mounted sling. I have this on a M16A4 clone, so I have a 20" barrel and the A2 buttstock, by the way.

I finally settled on the Boonie Packer BP-42 sling. I really like the way the sling attaches to the rifle, especially at the front where it's one of the few slings that don't require a 1913-railed handguard or an attachment to the FSB tower. And in particular I have a strong aversion to tying my sling to the rifle with 550 cord.

I wear it with my head and left shoulder through the sling. The sling is comfortable that way, it hangs the rifle almost vertically down the front of the body, and when I bring the rifle to my shoulder my left elbow can apply tension to the sling and steady the rifle.

The only thing I wish it had was a Fastex buckle at the front so that one could "cut away" from the sling should the rifle get hung up on something, or if one should fall water and want to quickly dump the weight.