224 Valkyrie adventure [Archive]

Former11B

25 December 2018, 19:42

I recently was able to put together a 224 Valkyrie build.

UWone set me up with a 20” Rainier Arms 224V Ultramatch Mod 2 barrel and a 15” Midwest Industries M-Lok rail and it was off to the races

One interesting thing about the barrel (to me) is that it’s a rifle length +2” gas system. I knew WOA had used longer than rifle gas systems but haven’t personally used one until now. Should I not run a suppressor, I probably wouldn’t have opted for an adjustable gas block.

I’m running some new parts that I haven’t used before, namely a Magpul Bipod (talked about this briefly on here before), a Geissele Airborne charging handle, and a CMC 2.5# flat trigger.

I was slightly curious at Rainier’s choice of twist rate and even emailed their tech support over it a while back. While a lot of high end barrel companies have chosen to produce nothing SLOWER than 1:7, and some say to make the most of the 90/95gr bullets you really should opt for the 1:6.5 twist, Rainier is sticking by the 1:7.5 twist rate (at least for the time being). And honestly, I was surprised at the results I got with 88gr Hornady ELD bullets (1.245” length) since the 90gr SMK is shorter at 1.171”.

This is an extremely busy time of the year for work and family stuff but with the couple range trips I’ve made, Ive been able to do some testing already and I see a TON of promise with this caliber with a wide variety of bullets and powders.

I will likely be sticking with either 77gr Tipped Match Kings or 80gr Hornady ELDs for the long haul but I’m testing (in no particular order) 60gr Ballistic Tip, 69gr SMK/TMK, 70gr Barnes TSX for hunting, 73gr Hornady ELD, 75gr Hornady BTHP, 77gr SMK/TMK, 80gr Hornady ELD, 88gr Hornady ELD, and 90gr SMK.

Powders are: CFE 223, RE15, Varget, and 2000-MR. I’ve already tried (and ruled out) 8208XBR; it may be better for this cartridge running 60gr Varmint bullets (3200-3400fps prairie dog exploders) but with heavier bullets it’s been a dud.

Here are a few photos to start off with. I will be continuously updating this thread with new posts, pictures, and data.

http://i.imgur.com/fBxwO1l.jpg

During assembly I became aware at just how snug the slim profile Midwest rail was with the +2 gas system and the gas block on the .875” seat.
http://i.imgur.com/1zPx5Rn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qBNa12f.jpg

The total package as it sits:
http://i.imgur.com/hUv7hfb.jpg

alamo5000

25 December 2018, 19:59

A buddy of mine is building up one of these as we speak. I think he just needs one or two more parts.

Curious if you experienced any of the reported problems shooting some of the heavier pills? I am not all that versed but apparently the twist, powder type and burn speed, velocity, bullet type and design would lead to jacket separation.

On a side but related note, I talked to a tech at Sierra a while back and he explained to me that it's not so much grain weight of the bullet but rather the physical length of the bullet that needs the twist rate. According to him a somewhat slower twist, but in a overall longer length of barrel will achieve the desired results of stabilization without having torque that is too much for the physical bullet or it's jacket to handle.

When they work out the kinks of this caliber I might visit it again as a long ranger plinker. Until then, it's a pass from me.

SINNER

26 December 2018, 04:38

Former11B

26 December 2018, 05:31

Curious if you experienced any of the reported problems shooting some of the heavier pills? I am not all that versed but apparently the twist, powder type and burn speed, velocity, bullet type and design would lead to jacket separation.

On a side but related note, I talked to a tech at Sierra a while back and he explained to me that it's not so much grain weight of the bullet but rather the physical length of the bullet that needs the twist rate. According to him a somewhat slower twist, but in a overall longer length of barrel will achieve the desired results of stabilization without having torque that is too much for the physical bullet or it's jacket to handle.
.

The only jacket separation I’ve heard are from over spinning a bullet with an extremely thin jacket.

As far as what the Sierra tech mentioned, that’s why I constantly check bullet lengths (and usually mention them) in my selection and reports. Like the 88gr ELD being lighter but longer than the 90gr SMK, which do stabilize in my barrel.

To me the only appeal of this round is shooting the heaviest pills. 77’s and down might as well stick to a .223 Wylde. To properly stabilize and not spin the heavier bullets apart you Need a 6.5” twist for that.

6092

I also like the ability to put 2-300 extra FPS on the same bullet, whether for hunting (70gr TSX for example) or just added capability.

I only had a small amount of the 88s but so far so good

fledge

26 December 2018, 07:04

What’s your formula on the 88s on that target?

Former11B

26 December 2018, 09:56

What’s your formula on the 88s on that target?

Those were factory rounds

I’m going to try to replicate it at some point with CFE223 or 2000-MR

UWone77

26 December 2018, 10:30

Looks like that barrel has treated you well. Can't wait for the ongoing long term!

alamo5000

26 December 2018, 11:28

To me the only appeal of this round is shooting the heaviest pills. 77’s and down might as well stick to a .223 Wylde. To properly stabilize and not spin the heavier bullets apart you Need a 6.5” twist for that.

I am with you in concept. If I were to get into this it would be to shoot the heavy high BC bullets.

From my geeking out on this subject the rest is not necessarily all depending on just one thing to make it work. This round is probably one that could benefit from a slower twist and longer barrel, or those fancy graduated twist rate where it say starts a 1:9 and ends up 1:7 or 1:6.5 or something like that depending on the total barrel length.

The ultimate crux of the problem as I understand it is you have high BC bullets that are both skinny, long and brittle, and they get put under extreme torque for their length and hardness.

Also heavier jacketed (like thicker beefier jackets) bullets could be good too, or even if you really want to get down to it, full copper bullets (which would make the weight less, add velocity, but add OAL and hence even faster twist rates). Even the blend of how hard they blend their lead could make a difference.

Basically there are a lot of wheels turning here and I have no doubt in a year or two they will have the kinks worked out and people that are smarter than me and have more money to put into will figure all that out. Eventually whether it's via barrels or bullets somebody is going to hit the button for the right formula here.

Former11B

26 December 2018, 18:55

One issue for me is brass life.

I’ve been trying to load the same handful of Federal pieces to see how it holds up compared to Hornady or Starline. After three loadings, the pockets are still holding up. I read they get loose pretty quick but we’ll see.

tact

27 December 2018, 04:51

Barrel life can’t be great either

Former11B

27 December 2018, 06:14

Barrel life can’t be great either

Not an invalid point but I feel if I’m spending the money to launch 5-8k “match” projectiles ($2800-$4300 with the cost of brass included) the barrel is sort of inconsequential to that. Sort of like a suppressor when people worry about wearing them out.

Weeding out bad brass, however, is a tedious process that requires a lot more energy than a barrel. Just how I look at it more so than a cost basis I guess.

UWone77

27 December 2018, 09:57

Barrel life can’t be great either

I think the barrel is the cheap part of the equation here. We're not talking about a CHF 5.56 barrel you're trying to get 30k rounds out of.

fledge

27 December 2018, 14:17

Craddock says 5k rounds from their Valkyrie Bartlein barrels.

mustangfreek

28 December 2018, 00:45

Nice write up and info.

So maybe I missed it, how fast are you seeing the 77/88’s fly?

UWone77

28 December 2018, 08:18

Craddock says 5k rounds from their Valkyrie Bartlein barrels.

Sounds about right for his barrel in this caliber.

UWone77

4 January 2019, 19:25

Joelski

4 January 2019, 19:34

Agreed that the barrel is chump change compared to the joy of consistently reaming the bullseye. I need this to happen. Perhaps even an RPR if they bring it. Then I swear by Odin's balls I will take up reloading!

Former11B

4 January 2019, 21:21

Heading to the range tomorrow. Finally after four solid weekends of rain

alamo5000

4 January 2019, 22:05

Heading to the range tomorrow. Finally after four solid weekends of rain

Only four?

Still counting here.

I walk out in my yard and I sink over my feet in mud.

Former11B

7 January 2019, 15:37

I’ve been running the same handful of FC brass through it to see how many firings it would get.

Looks like an annealer is in my future. I fired them first as factory loads then got four reloadings before I saw the first case failures, all of which were split necks. Had to cull six of 20 pieces. I was running on the hotter side of things at one point

I want to try some 2000-MR powder as I’ve read good things but I’ve had good results with RE15. CFE223 is doing OK at the top end of the charge weight range

BoilerUp

7 January 2019, 18:22

old11bravo

11 January 2019, 02:43

Brand new to reloading and guess why I started. Yup, built a .224 Valkyrie. Been working with a very knowledgeable old gentleman teaching me the craft. Worked up a bunch of ladder loads to go test the next non inclement weather day off I get.
I’m running a Ballistic Advantage 22” rifle length 1:7 twist barrel. I’ve shot the Federal 90gr SMK with disappointing results and the Federal 75gr just slightly better but still not where I expected it to be.
Shot a few ladders that I loaded with some 69gr SMK’s and IMR 4895. On the advice of my reloading mentor I also took the groups out to 200 yards instead of 100. The groups are coming together but not perfection yet. I’m optimistic about this but I just need to discover the right load for my barrel.
If nothing else it got me into reloading so it’s been a hell of a lot of fun.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Former11B

10 February 2019, 17:31

6261

6262

Found a good node here with 75gr ELD and Varget. Hodgdons manual says 25.5gr is compressed, so I’m fine being a little off of max

I should be able to get close to 26.0gr of RE15 in there but I’d like to try 2000-MR and Varget with 80gr ELDs next and save all my RE15 for .308 and 5.56.

I ordered 100 pieces of new Starline 224 brass I found on sale; I’d like another 1-200 pcs of it, and I’ll probably get into annealing. But this is when testing is “over” and I’m loading for quantity to keep on hand

old11bravo

19 February 2019, 02:50

https://i.ibb.co/K2PmbMC/IMG-0460.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3NLY12v/200-Yards-Group-03-A.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/vwsYwFD/200-Yards-Group-10-A.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/KNkNGgR/200-Yards-Group-13-A.jpg

mustangfreek

21 February 2019, 00:04

Nice start..have you tried a little shorter OAL in that ladder? I’d also look into some TAC.

Also, Looks like good old MRC.. I’m not a member but head up there sometimes on thursdays.

Former11B

21 February 2019, 05:31

Nice start..have you tried a little shorter OAL in that ladder? I’d also look into some TAC.

Also, Looks like good old MRC.. I’m not a member but head up there sometimes on thursdays.

For those bullets, that sounds right. With 75-80gr ELD, I’m at 2.29”. I’ve seen people do seating depth tests for accuracy from 2.250” - 2.310”. I’ve had the best luck with longer bullets from 2.28”-2.29”

mustangfreek

22 February 2019, 23:37

Right on.

For me the only thing that interests me would be the heavy bullets, not much gain on 77’s and under to justify more money on brass, dies and such..

It’s always fun working up loads no mater what the caliber though.

Former11B

2 March 2019, 11:30

Found a good node for the 80gr ELD

I’m going to play with the seating depth (2.27-2.29”) but I’ve got a winner

6300

The top group is about 7/8” across edge to edge

The bottom group is a hair over 1/2” edge to edge

The big white square is 1”

mustangfreek

2 March 2019, 22:32

Nice looking groups.

Good ol’ Re15.

Former11B

3 March 2019, 17:20

I love seeing a node come together

It can look like a shotgun blast and when you start reaching the outer band of it, the groups start shrinking and shrinking, then they start getting bigger as you pass it

It’s like finding wood with a stud finder; the beeps start getting more and more rapid, then steady tone when you hit the stud, and back down again as you pass it

old11bravo

4 March 2019, 07:02

Cool! I just picked up 500 of the 90 grain SMK’s and a pound of RE15. May need to start tinkering.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Former11B

4 March 2019, 08:48

Cool! I just picked up 500 of the 90 grain SMK’s and a pound of RE15. May need to start tinkering.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 90gr SMKs and 80gr ELDs are very close in length (90SMK: 1.170” 80ELD: 1.161”) so I personally would only reduce my test loads just a tad with the 90s. I ran up to 25.2gr RE15 with the 80s with no pressure issues, just unsatisfied with the groups.

It looks like the speed, cost, and performance I can get with the 80ELD makes it the best all around bullet for me.

I want to grab a box of 70gr Barnes TSX for hunting season!

Joelski

4 March 2019, 14:49

Help a non-reloading guy out and tip off the manufacturers to your discovery. I want to build and do some shooting!

mustangfreek

5 March 2019, 02:33

Help a non-reloading guy out and tip off the manufacturers to your discovery. I want to build and do some shooting!

Stop talking like that and just grab a kit you weenie...[BD]

Best deal going right now Hornady Lock n load classic kit normally $320 plus shipping, on sale right now with code for $279 shipped , plus the rebate of 500 free Hornady bullets they are offering.

Plus sign up to active junky for a % of cash back for going thru their site to others to order goods. Easy. Sign up thru my referral link and after u make a $25 purchase you and me both get $10 back [:D]

Add that up and your at 260 shipped for the kit and 500 free bullets..Salad days...

Can’t say it enough, if you buy a decent amount online, it’s a no brainer... referral code-

https://www.activejunky.com/invite/1825879

Former11B

5 March 2019, 07:43

Help a non-reloading guy out and tip off the manufacturers to your discovery. I want to build and do some shooting!

It does suck that there’s only either heavies (88-90gr), two medium options (75gr BTHP Hornady Black or the terrible AE 75gr TMJ) and a couple 60gr Varmint options.

Hornady should at least offer their 75 or 80 ELD in place of the 75gr BTHP.

It seemed like the round started out with good support from Federal but they haven’t really tried to branch out at all it seems

There’s a huge benefit to the medium weight bullets. You can get them going substantially faster than in a comparable 223 Rem build...I’ve been invited to shoot for a day at a new 600yd range near me; once it dries up I’ll be taking a ton of ammo and a few rifles on a field trip

Former11B

5 March 2019, 11:50

Just read that Federal was making a GMM using 80.5gr Bergers. A couple guys I know didn’t have great luck with those bullets, and once again, they’re a more expensive option

80gr ELD/100ct (projectile): $23
80.5gr Berger /100ct: $35

I emailed Hornady and asked if they planned on offering some more 224V ammo using 75/80gr ELDs

Federal is coming out with a hunting round using the 78gr Barnes TSX. THAT is interesting

BC98

6 March 2019, 10:09

It seemed like the round started out with good support from Federal but they haven’t really tried to branch out at all it seems

Federal just released 3 more loads for .224V, two of which are medium weight bullets. At the same time, they were working with Sierra to improve the accuracy/consistency of the 90gr SMK load. If I remember correctly, they are also working on a Valkyrie-specific medium weight (83gr?) bullet with Berger.

I'm pretty sure that they are still dedicated to the round. Product development takes time in the ammunition industry.

Former11B

6 March 2019, 13:31

Federal just released 3 more loads for .224V, two of which are medium weight bullets. At the same time, they were working with Sierra to improve the accuracy/consistency of the 90gr SMK load. If I remember correctly, they are also working on a Valkyrie-specific medium weight (83gr?) bullet with Berger.

I'm pretty sure that they are still dedicated to the round. Product development takes time in the ammunition industry.

I mentioned two of those in my last post. They’re releasing another 60gr Varmint round, a 78g Hunting round, and an 80.5gr Berger which I’ve read not a lot of hand loaders like AND it’s an expensive bullet. Why not the 80gr SMK to complement the 90gr SMK?

Hornady has no plans to develop any more than the 75gr BTHP or 88gr ELD ammo they already do (I contacted them this week):

Hornady Support commented at: 03-05-2019 02:43

Mr. ——————,

Thank you for the email. Unfortunately we do not have plans to add anymore to the Valkyrie line. I will be happy to suggest this in our upcoming meetings.

Thank you,

(No name provided)

BC98

6 March 2019, 18:48

I mentioned two of those in my last post. They’re releasing another 60gr Varmint round, a 78g Hunting round, and an 80.5gr Berger which I’ve read not a lot of hand loaders like AND it’s an expensive bullet. Why not the 80gr SMK to complement the 90gr SMK?

Hornady has no plans to develop any more than the 75gr BTHP or 88gr ELD ammo they already do (I contacted them this week):

Hornady Support commented at: 03-05-2019 02:43

Mr. ——————,

Thank you for the email. Unfortunately we do not have plans to add anymore to the Valkyrie line. I will be happy to suggest this in our upcoming meetings.

Thank you,

(No name provided)

My response was related to the statement about Federal's lack of support for the caliber in terms of branching out. There have been 7 loads released in basically 2 years, from light weight to mid-weight plus heavy weights. And as far as I have heard, there is still a Valkyrie-specific 83gr Berger bullet in the works. I was just trying to make the point that seems like they are interested in expanding the caliber.

With respect to the Berger load, Federal has a GM Berger line and wanted to add a load for Valkyrie to that line. Since the 83gr wasn't ready in time, they decided to go with the 80.5gr bullet. My preference would have been the 82gr as I have had good hand loading that one. While some handloaders may not have had great luck with the 80.5, Federal must have found a sweet spot as their internal requirements for accuracy in the Gold Medal line are quite strict.

As to why not the 80gr SMK, my guess is that it doesn't fill a space that their marketing group has identified as a needat this point. The 80.5 also has a slightly higher BC. Same for Hornady, I would guess that the offerings that they currently have meets the needs identified by their marketing group.

Ideally, I would like to see an 80gr Tipped Matchking be developed for Valkyrie. BC would be outstanding (probably near the 90gr SMK) but it wouldn't intrude into the power volume so much that you couldn't push velocity pretty hard.

Former11B

6 March 2019, 19:15

Their marketing groups seem to differ from the vast majority of 224 Valkyrie shooters I talk to online and at the range

mustangfreek

9 March 2019, 00:25

Anyone tried the Sierra 95 gr hp’s?

Seems like it’s a good fit with the Valkyrie , but mag length or lack of might be a problem I imagine

old11bravo

9 March 2019, 05:02

.
So I'm about to get out (thinking Monday March 11, 2019) to run these .224 Valkyrie test groups experimenting with several various powders for best performance with the 69gr projectiles but also to observe the impact of bullet seating depth experimentation. Once I shoot this batch, I will be moving into 90 grain projectile testing. I have my Harrell Arbor Press and my Wilson Seating die to pack out to the range with me. Each row of test groups listed in the chart below consists of 5 rounds. I created at least two groups of five rounds for each recipe listed (four groups of five rounds for the IMR 4064 @ 24.5gr because it has shown promising results in previous tests).

All of the groups of five charted in each row in the table below have the bullets seated to give every cartridge a C.O.L. of 2.241. That is close to the very maximum C.O.L. I can get and still have the cartridge load and feed reliably from the PRI 20 round mags I'm using in my Aero Precision M4E1 224 Valkyrie rifle with 22" 1:7 Ballistic Advantage barrel.

I will shoot a control group of five rounds from each recipe with the bullet seated at the C.O.L. of 2.241 then use the arbor press and seating die to decrease the C.O.L. of the next five rounds from the same recipe. I'm hoping to get a better idea for myself, the degree of impact created by changing the seating depth or C.O.L. of a cartridge and the influence that it plays on the accuracy of the round.

All control groups will be shot at a 2.241 C.O.L. but I'm open to suggestion on how much I should decrease the C.O.L. for subsequent groups shot from the same recipe. Particularly with the recipe of IMR 4064 @ 24.5gr where I will have the opportunity to shoot four different groups of five. I can try four different bullet seating depths with that recipe.

6342

Former11B

10 March 2019, 06:13

When you say “close to max length”, what are you going off of? 2.260”?

I’m running my heavier bullets at 2.28-2.290”...max length is really determined by the mag here, with 2.30-2.31” (depending on a regular ASC/Stoner mag vs PRI)

I shot some 69gr TMKs with CFE223 but didn’t spend a lot of time with them because I wanted to focus on heavier bullets. But I would like a good 60-69gr Varmint load. I’ll be honest I haven’t seen anyone using 4064...I don’t think it’s able to get the velocity that some other powders can (RE15, CFE223, 2000MR etc), but if it works, it works I guess

Mustang, to answer your question about the 95s, I haven’t gone that high yet. I’d like to try some 90gr SMKs but haven’t found any in stock locally yet, and I figure I’m doing so much other testing, when I do manage to find them, it’ll probably be the right timing.

old11bravo

10 March 2019, 08:37

When you say “close to max length”, what are you going off of? 2.260”?

I’m running my heavier bullets at 2.28-2.290”...max length is really determined by the mag here, with 2.30-2.31” (depending on a regular ASC/Stoner mag vs PRI)

Yes I’m going off of what length my PRI mags will allow when I referenced “max length” for the C.O.L. at 2.260

I couldn’t find the 90gr pills in stock anywhere either. I lucked across a gentleman selling a lot of 500 of them on another forum I frequent. Got an excellent deal on them too.

Shoot me a pm with your address if you’d like me to send you a box of them to try out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Former11B

10 March 2019, 17:55

I can send you something back, like 77gr tipped match kings if you want in exchange

Also, I think 6.8 SPC ASC/AR Stoner/PRI mags allow for a 2.30” OAL...you can probably stretch those out

Yes I’m going off of what length my PRI mags will allow when I referenced “max length” for the C.O.L. at 2.260

I couldn’t find the 90gr pills in stock anywhere either. I lucked across a gentleman selling a lot of 500 of them on another forum I frequent. Got an excellent deal on them too.

Shoot me a pm with your address if you’d like me to send you a box of them to try out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

old11bravo

10 March 2019, 21:08

I'll take a closer look at the clearance in my PRI mags with the 2.260 COL cartridges. Maybe I'm short changing myself. My 6.8 SPC PRI mags are 20 round capacity. I really like them. I do have a couple 10 round ASC mags for 6.8 SPC but I haven't ever used them. Maybe I should take a closer look at those too.

I have an unopened box of the Sierra 90gr .224 Matchking projectiles sitting on my desk ready to go wheels up. Consider it a small token of my appreciation for the enjoyment and knowledge I'm getting out of this thread. We are on the same quest with this .224 Valkyrie round and I appreciate you letting me participate in the conversation. After many years of enjoyment and content with shooting and questing for improved marksmanship, this round is what finally nudged me over the precipice sending me tumbling into the realm of reloading. Being new reloading, I've lots to learn from guys like you. So again, thank you!

https://i.ibb.co/m6XRqQ5/IMG-0824.jpg

Former11B

23 March 2019, 17:41

PM Sent, old11bravo. I wasn’t ignoring you, I just didn’t see the post! I’m sorry

Here’s another update: round count of 416 and the extractor spring failed. BCG was a new 224 Valkyrie-labeled Ballistic Advantage product that had fired all of those rounds with no issue. The spent case would pull out of the chamber but the brass remained stuck under the extractor claw. The ejector plunger was clean and had plenty of tension but was not jammed. I got a spare spring out of my range repair kit and swapped it in...worked just fine after that. Looks like I need to buy a 10 pack of these things....

Got my 300yd dope. 80gr ELD: 4.25 MOA up adjustment and 75gr ELD 4 MOA

Former11B

25 March 2019, 13:56

After contacting Ballistic Advantage regarding the short lifespan of the extractor spring in their bolt, I inquired about the bolt itself. The initial 224 Valkyrie BCG they sold had a Nitrided carrier and a phosphate bolt, but now the entire thing is black nitride. I mentioned that the phosphate bolt I received was very rough, and while functional, I’d never see one that looked like this one before. I sent them a picture of it, and very quickly they said they were mailing a replacement with no further explanation needed. +1 for Ballistic Advantage’s customer service!

6389

mustangfreek

26 March 2019, 02:12

Yuck...that up is a rough looking bolt....

Good deal on the no hesitation of BA to fix your problem.

Former11B

29 March 2019, 10:35

Snip snip snip

Thank you again!!! Very much appreciated :)

90SMK vs 80ELD
6396

I’ve been reading a lot about H4895 and 224 Valkyrie so I just picked up a pound to try with these also

Joelski

29 March 2019, 11:50

So basically, support for this round is dying and the only decent results are still being researched, but largely only available if you roll your own. Do I have that right?

Former11B

29 March 2019, 12:18

So basically, support for this round is dying and the only decent results are still being researched, but largely only available if you roll your own. Do I have that right?

New ammo is being developed, it’s just slow. New bullet options are coming out also and manufacturers are offering new brass for loading.

There were some hiccups when it first released, like Federal’s 90gr being really inconsistent and the results turned some people away

I’m in a Valkyrie owners group on FB and it is growing and growing

Joelski

29 March 2019, 13:10

Good to hear. i was seeing the quality go back and forth on the SMK and read it as loss of interest.

mustangfreek

29 March 2019, 15:14

So basically, support for this round is dying and the only decent results are still being researched, but largely only available if you roll your own. Do I have that right?

If you’d just dig in and start reloading already....lol..[BD]

You could be making quality ammo at a fraction of the price.

Graf and sons has the Hornady classic single stage kit in sale and free shipping on Friday’s along with a free Hornady/buck knife.. $260 shipped then 500 bullets back....I’d sure like to grab one and get back into reloading myself .:(

That’s super cheap for a quality-get ya going kit- then buy a set of Hornady dies for another 100 free bullets!

old11bravo

30 March 2019, 05:14

Former11B

30 March 2019, 09:46

So far all of my experimentation with the 224 Valkyrie has been with the Sierra 69gr SMK's and a few 69gr Hornady Match combined with a plethora of various powders. I found a few combo's I can fall back on if I want to start loading for stock in that bullet weight.

I now have a sufficient supply (for the time being) of the Sierra 90gr SMK's to begin trying out some different powders in various weights and see if I can find a combination suitable for producing a supply in that weight as well.

I've noted a lot of naysaying recently in regards to the 224 Valkyrie but I remain convinced that there is something to this round that is yet to be discovered. Tons of potential to be realized and much too early to count this round out. I'm optimistic.

Since I primarily shoot 75/77gr in a 16” 223, my 224V 77gr TMK load is going about 300fps faster than my 223 load with the same bullet. That’s a huge jump in potential

Using a 70gr Barnes copper bullet, it’s an extremely viable hunting round as well

The Valkyrie is a great caliber, it’s just not as plug and play as 5.56/223....it’s sort of picky

mustangfreek

30 March 2019, 12:54

I just don’t see the “value” in these unless your pushing heavies, 90gr and up....anyone make 100’ish grain bullets yet?

...But I get the working up loads etc.....carry on...[:D]

Former11B

31 March 2019, 07:41

I just don’t see the “value” in these unless your pushing heavies, 90gr and up....anyone make 100’ish grain bullets yet?

...But I get the working up loads etc.....carry on...[:D]

The value is a gas gun equivalent of a 223AI

Pushing 77gr bullets 300fps faster than a 223 Rem and it can shoot bullets you can’t magazine load in it.

With a 20” barrel, My 80gr ELD load is averaging 2760fps and 90gr SMK should be pushing about 2630fps. Granted, the 90SMK numbers are from Quickload but it almost identically matches my actual loads in other bullets/powders. Add 25-30fps for every inch you gain on the barrel to see if a 22” or 24” would yield better numbers.

95gr SMKs are the heaviest I’ve seen and I’m not sure what kind of performance those offer

I prefer the 80ELD to the 88ELD because the difference in down range performance is outweighed by the extra speed I can put behind the 80s, plus they’re cheaper

mustangfreek

31 March 2019, 16:26

Oh I hear ya...lol

I enjoy all of that stuff...anc there’s so many wildcats etc now a days..

The 6mm mongoose looks very interesting...but that’s another thread..as it to is like a 223 AI -sorta , pushing some good numbers
18 inch barrel
80 grain federal pulls 2900-2990
68 match burner 3100-3200
20 inch barrel
87 vmax 2750-2880
90 fmj 2750-2800
105 amax 2500-2600

Former11B

31 March 2019, 21:57

224 Grendel is gaining a little traction, better numbers than 224 Valkyrie, but no factory ammo and only a couple barrel manufacturers I’m aware of. Uses 6.5 Grendel brass, bolt, and mags.

80gr ELDs and CFE223 is pushing about 3050fps from 22” barrel

Again these are gas guns and I’m specifically interested in .22 cal. If I was sticking with a bolt gun, I’d just run a .22-250. If I was upping the caliber, I’d need to upgrade my larger bore suppressor (current 7.62 can is too heavy for this). I’d probably just build a 6x47 or 6CM

Former11B

2 April 2019, 20:29

Okay....80gr ELD and H4895 is looking like a pretty good combo

Playing with seating depths to get groups as tight as possible but with a 20” barrel:
2.28” 2.27” 2.26”
24.4gr: 2908 - 2923 - 2939fps
24.5gr: 2947 - n/a - n/a
24.6gr: 2954 - n/a - 2956fps
24.8gr. n/a - n/a - 2971fps

With 88gr ELD / Varget, 23.6-23.8gr and seating depth dependent is pushing 2675fps-2715fps

The numbers are looking better in reality vs on paper. Going to load up some more 80ELD for a retest and see if I can duplicate it.

Will also be slinging some 90SMK; researching which powder to use. I’ve got 30pcs of Hornady brass to use for it but I’ve heard the Hornady primer pockets are junk

mustangfreek

3 April 2019, 01:22

Those are some good numbers on those 80’s..man I love playing around such as you are here..bunch of work...but fun stuff... sorry I’m a numbers/ammo nerd..lol

Looks like the higher 80/4895 numbers weren’t increasing much on the higher charges.. Getting warm? Any swipe marks , primers flattening?

You load with RE 15 or RE 17 IIRC ...looking at the burn chart and from my days of screwing around..I’d be willing to make a wager, that those and the 88/90’s will really like it.

Former11B

5 April 2019, 07:29

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This one looks a lot better!

Former11B

8 April 2019, 18:42

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90SMK vs 77SMK

Good lord these are huge.

Going over the top of H4895 right now

mustangfreek

8 April 2019, 19:05

That’s what she said..

Bahaha

mustangfreek

8 April 2019, 19:06

Lol

I’m interested to see your results. I’m telling ya if you have any re17 around , try some under those 90’s. .....U know for science...[:D]

old11bravo

9 April 2019, 03:10

Lol

I’m interested to see your results. I’m telling ya if you have any re17 around , try some under those 90’s. .....U know for science...[:D]

Have the day off tomorrow and was just thinking about loading my first 90gr pills in 224 Valkyrie but wasn't sure what powder to start this adventure with. Looks like I'll be cracking open the virgin Re17 container now. Kind of excited about it.

Former11B

9 April 2019, 11:13

Have the day off tomorrow and was just thinking about loading my first 90gr pills in 224 Valkyrie but wasn't sure what powder to start this adventure with. Looks like I'll be cracking open the virgin Re17 container now. Kind of excited about it.

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mustangfreek

9 April 2019, 14:51

I love some freshly rolled freedom fries [:D]

Have the day off tomorrow and was just thinking about loading my first 90gr pills in 224 Valkyrie but wasn't sure what powder to start this adventure with. Looks like I'll be cracking open the virgin Re17 container now. Kind of excited about it.

Yes!!

I’ve been lurking in a few forums and a few have had stellar results with the 90’s and re17 and 2000mp

Try a few different seating depths

old11bravo

9 April 2019, 21:22

Former11B

10 April 2019, 10:19

Pleased with the 90SMK and H4895 results. Found the node right off the bat; had to stop during my first shot group and open my gas up. I was shooting unsuppressed to make sure the 90SMKs would stabilize in my 1:7.5 barrel before I ran it suppressed. They stabilized AND did well

23.0, .2, & .4 shot well, and I’ll test again at 2.29” (probably 22.9, 23.1, and 23.3gr) but opened up at 23.6gr to about 1.25” and even more at 23.8 (2”).

I want to try H4895 with my 80ELDs!

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old11bravo

10 April 2019, 17:53

Very nice!

mustangfreek

11 April 2019, 02:08

Inspired by former11B and MF, I finally decided to break out my 90gr Sierra Matchkings for the .224 Valkyrie and venture into what will be uncharted waters for me. Did a lot of exploring with the .224 69gr pills so feeling like it's time to look to the horizon. I'm excited about sending these down range.

Interested to see your results

Pleased with the 90SMK and H4895 results. Found the node right off the bat; had to stop during my first shot group and open my gas up.
23.0, .2, & .4 shot well, and I’ll test again at 2.29” (probably 22.9, 23.1, and 23.3gr) but opened up at 23.6gr to about 1.25” and even more at 23.8 (2”).
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So what’s your OAL on those 90’s?

Have you ran a dummy round in there , slightly seated farther out, to measure to see how far your lands are out there? Jump wise?

As in can you get them a little tighter while still being safely off them a few thousandths and load them to mag length?

The little things add up once you found something it likes to start with..

Former11B

23 April 2019, 07:59

My rifle likes 2.285” the best so far but I loaded the 90SMKs to 2.30” just to be on the safe side. I did OAL testing with 80ELDs and OAL makes a huge difference with 224V

I bought two boxes of new Federal 90SMK ammo; I’m going to test one for groups and I’ll save the other to shoot head to head against my own 90gr load that shoots the best, whether it’s with RE15, H4895 or what

mustangfreek

24 April 2019, 01:39

So single loading or what mag you using that’s not giving ya a hiccup with the longer OAL.

Just curious

Former11B

26 April 2019, 20:19

So single loading or what mag you using that’s not giving ya a hiccup with the longer OAL.

Just curious

I’m not single loading

Mag length is 2.30”...224 Valkyrie uses 6.8 mags, not 223

On a positive note, A new 600 yard range opened up pretty close to where my current range membership is held. It’s a MUCH nicer range...the long distance lane is about 100yds WIDE. It’s got numerous 25yd pistol/rifle bays and a 360* bay. There are some real quality instructors on staff as well.

And I’m heading out there today :)

mustangfreek

27 April 2019, 03:27

I’m not single loading

Mag length is 2.30”...224 Valkyrie uses 6.8 mags, not 223

Ya I thought about that later...it slipped my brain.

Former11B

27 April 2019, 10:22

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Gorgeous day

Got my 80gr ELD and 80gr SMK loads with H4895 squared away. I also shot a box of Federal GMM 90gr SMK (not Fusion) to see how it did. Shot roughly MOA at 100 then I smacked steel at 500yds with it just to hear the heavy slap sound it makes.

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I used Hornadys free Ballistic app and it got me close with the SMKs and inputted info but with the ELDs, it had much closer info and was dead on for me.

My 80gr ELD load is moving right around 2965fps. The 90gr SMKs are just shy of 2700fps.

Rainier’s 1:7.5 twist has NO problem with heavier bullets. I’ve shot 80gr and 88gr ELDs and now 90gr SMKs, both factory ammo and handloads with zero issues

old11bravo

27 April 2019, 17:13

That H4895 with the 90gr is looking pretty spectacular!! Bravo!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Former11B

27 April 2019, 18:08

That H4895 with the 90gr is looking pretty spectacular!! Bravo!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There was a node between 23.0-23.3gr, but .2 did the best.

I dropped the OAL from 2.30” to 2.290”. I might even drop it to 2.28” but it’s hard to mess with a good thing. I’ve only got 3lbs of 4895....need to fix that

Former11B

4 June 2019, 14:14

I tested two depths of 80gr ELD/H4895:

The first was my previously successful 2.29” and I tried a couple dozen at 2.275”.

It definitely prefers the longer loading...that extra jump to the lands was not appreciated by the barrel.

I’m mostly done in the testing Phase of this thing. If I get a wild hair, I will test some 70 grain Barnes TSX Bullets for hunting and I wouldn’t mind trying some 95gr SMKs just to see what happens, but I am very happy with the 80gr ELD and 90gr SMK loads

Now for the real kicker: getting into some local DMR matches with it and seeing how many rounds the barrel is good for.

I just hit 700 rounds down the tube on Saturday

alamo5000

4 June 2019, 16:10

I tested two depths of 80gr ELD/H4895:

The first was my previously successful 2.29” and I tried a couple dozen at 2.275”.

It definitely prefers the longer loading...that extra jump to the lands was not appreciated by the barrel.

I know it's slightly off topic (maybe) but have you tried any of the micrometer seating dies?

A long time ago I bought a second hand Forster die for my 300 BLK and just recently started to use it. The Lee one leaves a lot to be desired by comparison. I was surprised at how big of a difference there is. Now I am thinking about switching all my rifle dies to Forster. [:D]

I found a good deal on a micrometer die for 300 BLK as I figured it would be worth noting down the figures with so many different bullet lengths, ojives, and types for that caliber.

I will let you know how it turns out, but so far I have been extremely impressed by Forster and I am sure that would translate pretty good as well for your .224 Valkarie. It seems to me that it would give you exacting control of your OAL and how far off the lands you are even with different bullets.

Former11B

4 June 2019, 19:58

I have RCBS Competition dies in 223 and 308 with the side feeding window and micrometer; I want the same one in 224 Valkyrie. They just recently released a similar one, the Gold Medal series but I don’t want to mess with neck tension. The Competition die doesn’t do all that, just micrometer and bullet window which is all I want

Former11B

14 August 2019, 16:18

6789

I posted this on Instagram and tagged Sierra and Federal. I picked up a box of the “new formula” 224 Valkyrie 90gr SMKs by Federal because I read it was improved over the original and wanted to compare it to my handloads.

I open factory ammo boxes out of habit to make sure I’m not buying a box with damaged or missing rounds and I noticed the meplats on the factory ammo looked....strange. (Top picture/top row) They look way different than the loose 90gr SMKs available for reloading (top picture bottom row). The tips/meplats aren’t rolled or uniformed on the factory ammo; it looks like it was shaved or hammered down flat. The open tips are gone and all the excess meplat material was like pressed inward. I opened all the boxes on the shelf and they were like this. The camera focused as much as I could get it to on such a small surface so it’s not as clear as it could be

Any guesses?

Joelski

14 August 2019, 16:40

Mass production. The effect of cranking out so many rounds per minute. Probably associated with seating in the case.

Former11B

14 August 2019, 17:57

The seating stem is hollow so I don’t know what would be touching the meplat. Unless they’ve got them specifically cut for each type of bullet and this one was indexed half a CH too low

I wish I’d checked the lot numbers on the boxes of ammo to see if it was spread across several lots (so likely a normal or intentional thing) or if the five or six boxes were all one lot #.

Former11B

25 August 2019, 14:16

I was able to send some much more detailed pictures to Federal, and they immediately sent me a label to return the ammo to them. Something was definitely out of whack.

Took the Valkyrie hunting this morning, however someone on a nearby property decided to let loose with unknown types of firearms but he averaged about 1 shot every 6 seconds.....for three and a half hours. Needless to say, even the squirrels that normally come out to the corn piles didn’t show up. At least the weather was nice so it wasn’t a total loss of a morning

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Former11B

6 November 2019, 10:55

I shot a precision match last weekend and will be shooting a similar one in December but am planning on using the Valkyrie with 80gr ELD/H4895

200-500yd targets, most were 33-50% IPSC but some were odd shaped, hidden, etc. and working with a random team mate I’d never met under a time constraint was tough

I shot it with my 16” Rainier Arms Ultramatch Gen 1 (Shilen) barreled 5.56 AR and 69gr SMKs using my 2.5-10x32 FFP Vortex. My dope was on point and I did really well running the rifle but fighting the clock and there were some long distance pistol shots I totally flubbed (75-120yds)

I’ll bring it as a backup (but with 75gr ammo/dope)

Looking forward to this next one a lot and seeing the Valkyrie perform off the flat range and in a fast paced environment

6995

I need to get another optic in the 3-12, 4-16, etc range and run my 16” Mod 2 Ultramatch in one of these matches also

DISCOM

6 November 2019, 16:53

I would like to hear how the Valkyrie does after your match as well. You should look into this as it is not to far from home and join us sometime.

https://www.arenatrainingfacility.com/events-1/a-weekend-in-the-arena-7-9-feb-2020

Former11B

7 March 2020, 13:22

Match 2 of the CheytacUSA Tactical Sniper Series/Carolina Top Shot 2 Gun

Tore it up with the Rainier Valkyrie barrel today. My pistol skills....not so much. I need to upgrade my sights (hard to hit 60-100yd 50% IPSC targets when the front post is double the target size)

Anyways:

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mustangfreek

9 March 2020, 09:49

Awesome!!

Looks like a fun event..I’ve been wanting to get into 2 gun/rifle courses as such.. but seems like the good ones are wayyyy on the other dude of the state... just don’t have the time or $$ to commit at the moment

gatordev

9 March 2020, 10:31

I need to upgrade my sights (hard to hit 60-100yd 50% IPSC targets when the front post is double the target size)

Join the red dot revolution. Not only does it make shots like that so much easier, it's a great trainer to see what you're doing with the gun when you press the trigger. I was non-believer for a long time, but I've been assimilated.

Former11B

18 April 2020, 18:16

With my upgraded Dawson sights, I went 100% on pistol targets today including 11 targets (50-66% IPSCs) at 100yds. Huge huge huge improvement.

The Valkyrie shot fantastic. Not a hiccup over a thousand rounds now. Those fast moving ELDs are crushing it

I’ve got a chance to shoot a more advanced course, basically 30-1300 yards, in August. Most engagements are 300-800. I think I can handle it except for some of the 1000+ ones because my dope doesn’t that far

Jerry R

19 April 2020, 06:53

I think I can handle it except for some of the 1000+ ones because my dope doesn’t that far

I wrote a program decades ago that will calculate the dope for you.

Input required

Cartridge Identity (just for the printout)
Ballistic Coefficient
Altitude above Sea Level
Temperature in degrees
Bullet weight in grains
Sight height above bore (center of scope to center of bore)
Muzzle velocity

You can then select a Range table / Detailed trajectory (your dope requirements) / Enter another cartridge / Quit

Program doesn't care how far you want the bullet to go, or what increment (yards) you want the dope. Calculates drop and 10 MPH drift.

Probably some newer/better programs available online though.

I looked up the BC of the 90g SMK - .563 and used 100 for altitude and 70 for temp with scope height of 1.5 just as an example. Cartridge zeroed at 100 yards. The "Clicks" column is based upon an optic with 1/4 MOA clicks. That column's accuracy was verified to 1 click at 600 yards at the River Bend Gun Club.

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