Suppression over length?

[Aragorn]

I'll lead with this. My experience with suppressors is limited, so I need to tap into y'alls personal and professional experience on the matter.

I have a .300 Blk pistol that I originally set up to accompany us on long road trips. It has since become my favorite gun. I freaking love it. It's small, balances well, and shoots great. Even fits in a HAWG Camelbak.

Carrying in that bag is somewhat awkward though and I'm looking to upgrade to a 24" VertX backpack. Turns out, with the Law Tactical folding stock adapter, I could suppress the weapon and it would still fit into a 24" pack. With that knowledge, suppressing it seems like an obvious choice. HOWEVER... I'd be sacrificing a good portion of what I love most about the gun to do that; its compactness and handling. Sure, I could get a QD and just take it off no have it all short and handy again, but my understanding is that if you intend to suppress, it should basically just be left that way. And that makes sense to me.

Another thing I was considering is that suppression would be a positive, Especially given its roll as a travel gun where donning hearing protection may not be an immediate option.

So my question to you suppressor guys, especially you guys who run them on SBR's or AR/AK pistols or subguns, which is your preference and why? Staying short and handy, or going longer, heavier, and quieter?

Pic of her as she sits. Pyzik I am not.

6212

[alamo5000]

Voodoo Man made a very valid point to a question I asked a few days/week ago...

If you are ever going to need the gun in some kind of defense situation a suppressor can actually be a detriment on a few levels. Most of that falls into the category of if you ever had to (even justifiably) shoot someone with an NFA item it will complicate things quite a lot in the aftermath.

A friend of mine didn't even shoot someone, he had his house broken into and someone passed up all his FN boxes and H&K stuff and picked up a cheap AK that he had out propped up against the wall. They caught the people that stole it and he STILL has not gotten his gun back. It's still sitting in some evidence locker somewhere. And considering that an NFA item would warrant even more scrutiny it would make me think twice about say carrying an SBR in my car (unless I get more than one SBR) but even then I would question it (after listening to Voodoo's sage advice and thinking on it for a while).

So basically a truck gun or something that in theory that could be used for SD in real life, it would give me pause just because of the logistical stuff from a legal standpoint.

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As to the question of suppression vs length, in a car or whatever shorter=better. Take your 16" gun and try working it around the cab of a truck or something.

Also it depends on what you will shoot and at what distances. People who are like me, once we started with suppressors it's like a bad crack habit. You will always want to shoot suppressed. But there is more than one practical reason behind having things that 'stay suppressed'... one is POI shift. Depending on the host, the can, and ammo it can be significant. If you constantly swap back and forth with ammo and suppression you will become a master at re-zeroing the rifle.

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For me, at this point in my non professional life, I don't hardly ever shoot unsuppressed anymore. That is referring to all things that are just pure enjoyment type of shooting or even hunting stuff. For things that are defensive in nature I don't even bother trying to use or practice with those weapons suppressed. Fast and loud is substantially better in that kind of situation.

Even for HD I am really considering a set up like you have there, just like it is, folder, brace, etc.... it can be in the car or the house and in the random event that I have to actually use it the cops don't take my expensive NFA things away for two years until the situation gets sorted.

[fledge]

My take:

Make sure gun runs subs unsuppressed. Now you have options.

Carry the suppressor with you for times you want it as a bump in the night gun.

Use unsuppressed as the quick vehicle / carry gun.

Quick disconnect or direct thread doesn’t matter in this situation.

I don’t care about a complicated aftermath. If my family is safe, I’ll put up with my government’s shenanigans.

[Joelski]

^^^^ 100% agree with this man. The beauty of 300 BLK is it runs with, or without a can (if properly set up) and it doesn't suffer a performance hit either way.

My thought on legal concerns with suppressors, SBR's.

There's not a huge pool of case law surrounding NFA items; a lawfully owned firearm is just that and nothing more or less.

[Aragorn]

All good points; couple thoughts on them.

I'm not really concerned about deployment IN the vehicle. My thinking there is that if I'm in the car... I can just leave. If I could leave and didn't, I could see that possibly being an issue in court. Barring that, say someone is blocking the vehicle a weapon or whatever, I tend to view a several thousand pound metal vehicle as a far FAR more effective defensive implement than ANY firearm.

But let's say that, for whatever reason, I can't drive away, vehicle won't move, I need a firearm and I need it RTFN. Deploying the concealed Glock seems to make way more sense as it's much quicker than reaching behind the seat, grabbing a bag, and retrieving its contents. Now, time allowing, I would retrieve the .300 and exit the vehicle in this situation. That would give me more movement area and keep the wife and kids clear of me if someone DOES start popping shots. Once outside, the addition length wouldn't make much difference.

So I guess when I say travel gun, I'm meaning it more as a bug out weapon / bump in the night gun that travels with me, rather than something I'm likely to deploy IN the car. I get the beauty of being able to switch back and forth between suppressed and unsuppressed, but I'd rather just pick one and roll that way due to POA/POI considerations.

Outside of its mission statement, it's simultaneously my favorite range toy set up as it is for the reasons mentioned in my first post, but it seems people who have gone suppressed tend to stay that way, even given addition length and weight. Idk, I like it how it is, but I'm not really sure I've been talked out of suppressing it. Especially given that it could still travel in that configuration.

Though to be honest, I'm not sure if I want to be talked IN to it, or OUT of it. I just want to make the best, wisest, most informed decision.

[alamo5000]

At the end of the day you will never regret getting a suppressor. Or ten.

[Former11B]

A Rugged Micro 30 would be a badass can for that rifle

[Aragorn]

A micro 30? I'll look into it. I had been thinking Trash Panda if I went suppressed.

[alamo5000]

if I went suppressed.

Watch yer mouth with that kinda talk around these parts! [:D]

HAHAAAA!!! LOL!! J/K

It's not a matter of if but when.

[UWone77]

For vehicle carry Id keep it as short as possible and dump the suppressor.

[Aragorn]

Alright here's some numbers for any of you numberphiles.

I did some measuring and some math with lengths and weight to help give myself a little better illustration of what these configurations would look like.

The pack I'm looking at is 24"

Currently as it sits here are some specs from the .300

8.3" barrel with FC 6315 flash hider
18.6" collapsed
OAL extended 27.25"
Bbl plus flash hider 9.6"
Bbl weight plus FH 20.9 oz. (Bbl weight pulled from BA's website, unsure if GB weight is included)

These are the most favorable numbers given the suppressors I ran the math on. I looked at the Silencer Co. Omega 300, The Q Trash Panda, and the Rugged Micro 30 in the K configuration. I ran numbers for the 8.3" barrel I have as well as a slightly shorter 7.5" which I'm debating getting. The SiCo wasn't favorable against the other two no matter which way I sliced it. The Trash Panda and the Micro 30 BOTH win... the Trash Panda for weight and the Micro for length. They weigh the same, but I can use the Trash Panda on the shorter lighter barrel with my current rail, while the Micro would require me to ALSO get a shorter rail if I wanted to use the shorter barrel.

8.3" barrel with Micro 30 K config.
22" collapsed
OAL extended 30.3"
Bbl becomes 12.7
Bbl weight plus suppressor 30.8 oz. (Bbl weight pulled from BA's website, unsure if GB weight is included)

Vs.

7.5" barrel with Trash Panda
23.1" collapsed
OAL extended 31.4"
Bbl becomes 13.8"
Bbl weight plus suppressor 25.7 oz. (Assume 26.3 with addition of Ti GB)

So the Micro comes in at 1.1" shorter, even with the longer barrel, but the Trash Panda comes in 5.1 oz. lighter. The Trash Panda is also slightly less expensive, but the cost savings there would really be nil given the cost of the new barrel. However it comes with muzzle devices for BOTH 5.56 and 7.62, so if I got a wild hair I could put it on one of my 5.56's if so I wished. I'm leaning more towards the weight saving as I think it would more noticeable than just over 1" length savings of the Micro.

Or I could look into a linear comp and get the best of neither world.

Or go REALLY short and just get the shorter barrel.

Or change nothing because it's already awesome.

Look at me all acting like Alamo over here...


Oddly suprised the general consensus is to roll unsuppressed. Gotta say I wasn't expecting that from my WEVO brethren.

[Stone]

For vehicle carry Id keep it as short as possible and dump the suppressor.

Agreed. I grew up and lived/worked in some of the worst neighborhoods in Chicago. I drove a tow truck for 3 years on the west side, in and out of the projects all night long on the midnight shift. I never carried a firearm. The biggest thing for me was situational awareness, if you keep your head on a swivel you can see what's coming. People become victims when what they are doing is more important than what is going on around them. If it gets to the point that you have to pull a rifle out sound will be the least of your concerns, in fact making noise will be in your favor. Minimize variables and keep things in your favor by keeping it simple and effective. Long before I went into rifle options I would take a good look at deployment. Meaning, deploying a stashed rifle while my wife and kids are in the car. That presents a whole new set of obstacles that can only be overcome by practicing it many many times with the family in the vehicle possibly while under attack or extreme duress. The firearm is a small part of a bigger picture.

[cjd3]

I really really like my Omega 300. It's not just a range toy, I've harvested 2 moose with it on my .30-06 since I bought it. On my 300 BLK SBR, with the Anchor brake, it's 34.25" extended, 31" collapsed.(1" shorter if I put on a flat end cap). I've change to a Dead Air Keymo mount system and it's working great, better than the ASR. The barrel is a BA Hanson 8.3" and total weight with a UH-1 is 7.75 pounds.

[fledge]

Based on that, Aragorn, I’d just attach the suppressor when you got to your destination. Going with an even smaller pack with the upper, lower, suppressor all detached and then assembled in your hotel room is easy enough. Plus it makes it less obvious you have a pack with a weapon when going to/from building.

I’m with you on deploying the pistol from the vehicle. If you don’t plan to storm a school in an active shooter situation, you likely don’t need a rifle. Extra mags would be more important.

I use my sandman K and Omega 9 to keep things short for HD house clearing. For travel, since defending a hotel room doesn’t require a short gun, I wouldn’t worry about can length.

[alamo5000]

Look at me all acting like Alamo over here...



HAAHAA!!

Leave it as is.

If you want to get a suppressor get the one that you like best that meets your needs and then put the correct muzzle device on the gun.

You can carry the suppressor if you want. You can come down and shoot my stuff if you want or go to one of the many range days they hold periodically and get a little drive time. Especially in your area they will have events from time to time if you really want to try before you buy.

Just knowing what I know about mine, if you go with a shorty can it will knock the edge off but it will still be really loud.

[Former11B]

The Omega is a decent can in terms of performance but the ASR Mount is terrible compared to other options and the outer tube is GLUED to the baffle stack. That’s a nonstarter for me since I’ve seen quite a few come loose when hot. With all the new options out, there’s no reason to buy an Omega anymore....sorry SiCo fans

[Aragorn]

Whoa. I had already ruled it out but still! Thanks for the info!

[fledge]

Former, I have the Omega 30 and 9. And I won’t buy another SiCo product over the better options out there. They do have great customer service. My Omega 30 now has a plan B. It’s light and good to go again. The combo Took down an elk cow last fall on the Fix. Hope the glue holds up!

[Former11B]

Former, I have the Omega 30 and 9. And I won’t buy another SiCo product over the better options out there. They do have great customer service. My Omega 30 now has a plan B. It’s light and good to go again. The combo Took down an elk cow last fall on the Fix. Hope the glue holds up!

Me too. It’s unfortunate they saved weight this way
6220

[cjd3]

Mine did that too. Contacted them, and had no problem with me using Rocksett on the threads to put the sleeve back on. No problems since, and the KeyMo has seriously helped. And now Griffin Armament has jumped on bandwagon with their taper mount adapter "Plan A".