Surefire Bolt Carrier?

[usbp379]

The Surefire Optimized Bolt Carrier has been seen on YouTube and a few other places since 2016 and is apparently ready for commercial sale. Has anyone seen these in stock yet?

Optics Planet shows these for $400 but out of stock with an overdue availability date.

Surefire may actually have these in stock but if I can save a few bucks ordering elsewhere I'd rather go that route.

https://www.surefire.com/optimized-bolt-carrier-group-556mm.html

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[fledge]

What is a “long stroke buffer”? Will that be proprietary with the BCG?

Seems overly expensive and lacks details on what makes it better. Why not an LMT and standard H2 buffer if you want proven enhancements.

[usbp379]

What is a “long stroke buffer”? Will that be proprietary with the BCG?

Seems overly expensive and lacks details on what makes it better. Why not an LMT and standard H2 buffer if you want proven enhancements.

Here you go:

https://youtu.be/L8JWUvt65eo

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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/uUJax7C3qW4

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[usbp379]

https://videos.recoilweb.com/watch/channel/gun-room/C3JPGaEo6tSo-grs02e04-surefire-obc?fbclid=IwAR2hqCPeDBD_oTPj74nS5bIp1xs9qozF0P7Mb Q29bgIp2Mvs_27hpNmSk34

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[Former11B]

Geeeezus $450 for a BCG. SureFire fans will buy it, no doubt [BD]

[UWone77]

It's kind of odd. It's one of the few products you have to call Surefire to purchase, the website won't let you add it to the cart. I recall seeing this debut at SHOT 2017 ? But haven't seen much news about it since.

[usbp379]

Geeeezus $450 for a BCG. SureFire fans will buy it, no doubt [BD]Yep. Certainly not cheap. But the fact that it appears to be a complete kit with buffer and spring softens the blow somewhat.

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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/JTZZvnvNyVw

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[BoilerUp]

Here you go:

https://youtu.be/L8JWUvt65eo

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Wow, they've been pimping for 2 and half years and it's still not readily available?

[usbp379]

It looks like there were two versions. One was a standard bolt carrier with the built-in mass. The other was the enhanced stroke version with the shorter buffer. Both appear to have been NP3ed or NIBed.

Now it looks like only the enhanced stroke carrier is available and then only as a complete kit. The silver colored coating is done and has been replaced with what? Maybe DLC or black nitride?



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[usbp379]

Heck with it I've gone ahead and placed an order. I have a rifle I sort of want to reconfigure and might as well change the bolt and carrier while I'm at it.

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[UWone77]

Heck with it I've gone ahead and placed an order. I have a rifle I sort of want to reconfigure and might as well change the bolt and carrier while I'm at it.

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As thorough as you are, I can't wait to see your first hand thoughts on it.

[usbp379]

As thorough as you are, I can't wait to see your first hand thoughts on it.I appreciate the confidence. I'll do my best to be impartial and objective.

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[usbp379]

Dueck Defense shipped the same day the order was placed.

The rifle I wanted to rebarrel will have to stay "as issued" for awhile. The barrel I want to try is out of stock and won't be available for a couple months. In the meantime I'll run the bolt carrier to see how it does.

The rifle in question is a Ruger that's built using a Ballistic Advantage carbine gas barrel with A2 front sight base. It currently has a NiB bolt carrier and Geissele buffer and spring. I use the gun suppressed from time to time so the buffer has three tungsten weights in it.

Maybe it will end up being a pretty good test bed for the Surefire carrier and short buffer. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/5309e8ddbee86df7dc4d79e968ced7c3.jpg

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[UWone77]

I'm tempted to try this out on a suppressed short barrel.

[usbp379]

I'm tempted to try this out on a suppressed short barrel.Me, too.

I have a VLTOR upper that's put together with a Sionics 11.5" barrel. I'll try a few rounds through it with my AAC 7.62 suppressor.

Also curious to try with a select fire lower to see how the cyclic rate changes.

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[alamo5000]

This is getting more interesting as I read.

In this video below at about 1:30 he states that it will keep the bolt in lock up in battery for longer than a standard BCG. I wonder how much longer, and if that may or may not help alleviate some port pop on semi auto suppressed applications?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUJax7C3qW4&feature=youtu.be

If it's decreasing chamber pressure by about 15% that could in theory have a pretty significant impact on at the ear numbers for suppression, especially out of an SBR.

[usbp379]

The info on the back of the packaging. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/edf02d1905a1ae69df2bb0006d3fd53f.jpg

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[alamo5000]

The info on the back of the packaging. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/edf02d1905a1ae69df2bb0006d3fd53f.jpg

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Maybe I am wrong here but I am thinking through this. ( Dangerous I know right? [BD] )

If there is extended lock up time, and particularly on SBRs that gives the bullet substantially more time to travel down the bore and exit the muzzle (or at least enter the suppressor), thus dropping the pressure and forcing the gas forward more such as in a bolt action rifle.

If everything works the way that I think it would work it would have the equivalent effect (sound wise) of shooting out of a longer barrel rifle and decreasing the back pressure for gassy face and possibly a sound reduction. If my thinking is correct the sound reduction part would come from opening the system up while physically being under less pressure and hence less pop.

How that would translate into real world sound reduction (at the ear) I don't know. I emailed them and asked if they tested this. Even a 4-5 DB reduction at the ear would be pretty cool.

[alamo5000]

In the video below the suppressed at the ear numbers for a 10.5" SBR are over 149 almost 150 DB. Out of a 16" those same cans at the ear were reduced by around 6 DB.

If that's true then with this BCG a 16" AR would meter in at the ear around 136-137 DB range. If it works like that. Big if. I would like to see testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_LuHzfzYtc

[usbp379]

Weights for comparison.

The Surefire with counterweight:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/1ef1be9d9403ae09d71ea5ec2237a1ca.jpg

A standard GI style from BCM:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/32a15794cbe5458c3d83799ba564b069.jpg

Both weights taken with carriers completely assembled.

[usbp379]

Weight of the buffer included with the carrier:https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/7e89828131039b0a9a5e5089c81fa9d8.jpg

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[usbp379]

Packaging says H weight buffer.

I assume the weight(s) inside are standard stuff. I'm going to guess it would be possible to add a tungsten weight if desired. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/23592d6f7c0126fdf79fee68a5751f74.jpg

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[alamo5000]

In the video below the suppressed at the ear numbers for a 10.5" SBR are over 149 almost 150 DB. Out of a 16" those same cans at the ear were reduced by around 6 DB.

If that's true then with this BCG a 16" AR would meter in at the ear around 136-137 DB range. If it works like that. Big if. I would like to see testing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_LuHzfzYtc

Based on this using a 15% reduction in pressure it would make a 10.5" SBR reduce at the port door to something akin to a 12.5" to 14.5".

However on a 16" gun still using the same formula it would reduce port noise down to about an 18" barrel length.

If it's linear.

Basically like having an extra 2-3" on the barrel for noise purposes. It probably would reduce the noise at the ear but realistically probably not by much. Maybe 2 or 3 DB.

6292

[mustangfreek]

I'm tempted to try this out on a suppressed short barrel.

Torture test gun ...[:D]

Haha remember that

[UWone77]

Just ordered one... I guess their new video convinced me I needed to try one.

Any update on your usbp?



https://youtu.be/MK1CIUIWecE

[Former11B]

“It will double the reliability of your AR”

Snake oil sales pitch is unnecessary and offputting. What’s double the reliability of 100%? Zero failures thus far except for one broken spring but that’s unrelated to a BCG

[Stone]

Im all for checking out and trying new stuff that comes down the pipe but that statement from SF is a little far fetched. If I do my part and maintain my rifles even though I beat the shit out of them, they are running at 100% as is. The first thing I usually ask myself is "what can go wrong with it" Adding internal moving parts: spring loaded weight: where am I if that stops functioning? Screwed comes to mind, if Im in a bad situation. Also a proprietary buffer and spring length: Now I have to buy extra special length springs? Seems like we are adding variables instead of reducing variables... Their first video should have been a 50K round torture test with a few spring swaps allowed, then I would have been interested. Seems like they have left the long term testing and reviews up to the end users... So far to date, with using high quality parts, all of my DI builds are running at 100% with zero issues. But its like this with anything, I am sure there are things I buy that people would have a question with. Its our hard earned money and we can spend it how we like. Now we just need to talk UW into that 5K round torture test...[:D]

[UWone77]

I'm just in it to see if there's any gas reduction while shooting suppressed.

I don't buy into the double the reliability stuff either.

This is going on a new CMT SBR, that will be shot 100% suppressed. It's that cerakoted one I've posted a couple of times. Just working on getting the parts I want for it.

[usbp379]

Just ordered one... I guess their new video convinced me I needed to try one.




I haven't used mine yet. Can you believe it?

I also bought a buffer from Armatac with the idea that I'd compare both these products to a standard spring, carrier and H2 buffer. I haven't used it yet either.

I suck.



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[BoilerUp]

“It will double the reliability of your AR”

Snake oil sales pitch is unnecessary and offputting. What’s double the reliability of 100%? Zero failures thus far except for one broken spring but that’s unrelated to a BCG

What? You don't want a 200% reliable weapon?

[usbp379]

Haven't seen this linked yet. My apologies if it is a repeat:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/09/24/surefire-obc-ar15/

[HalfByTwentyEight]

Would really like to check out an obc, but for the cost, I can almost get into (2) lmt enhanced bolt carrier only (then just add a couple standard mpi bolts). Been very happy with the lmt enhanced carriers performance when suppressed, overgassed or FA. I know I'm not getting the benefit of the counterweight, or the shortened gas key, but the enhanced is still allowing the bolt to stay locked for a longer period of time allowing pressure in the operating system to drop prior to unlocking.

[UWone77]

I just ordered another. They're great for suppressed shooting. Noticeable gas difference in my face.

They're definitely not cheap, but for a dedicated short barrel, suppressed setup, it might be worth one.

[Joelski]

With the 15% increase in gases ejected out the bore of the rifle, I wonder has anybody done any testing to check for increase in muzzle velocity? 15% can probably be either a game changer (Neva bin dun befo!), or a bunch of nothing. I'd be particularly interested in seeing how 110 gr 300 BLK does with that system velocity-wise.

Still, seems interesting and probably the most compelling change in AR design in years.

[HalfByTwentyEight]

Spent last evening chatting with a couple buddies about the OBC vs the LMT enhanced (since I haven't actually shot an OBC in a suppressed SBR or FA). Consensus was (cost not being a factor) that the OBC was unanimously preferred over the Enhanced BCG, but that the LMT enhanced bolt was tops (or of course knights E3, but that's a different ballgame). Looking at the pic of the box, looks like the OBC bolt is a milspec mpi standard bolt. Is that correct? No special alloys, extractor improvements, or radius cuts on the lugs? Looking like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and pic up an OBC for christmas to try out. I'm sure i'll be happy!!

[mig1nc]

Spent last evening chatting with a couple buddies about the OBC vs the LMT enhanced (since I haven't actually shot an OBC in a suppressed SBR or FA). Consensus was (cost not being a factor) that the OBC was unanimously preferred over the Enhanced BCG, but that the LMT enhanced bolt was tops (or of course knights E3, but that's a different ballgame). Looking at the pic of the box, looks like the OBC bolt is a milspec mpi standard bolt. Is that correct? No special alloys, extractor improvements, or radius cuts on the lugs? Looking like I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and pic up an OBC for christmas to try out. I'm sure i'll be happy!!Right. Looks like you could probably run it on a KAC with their bolt.

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[MoxyDave]

I'd like to try one but the price is prohibitive right now. Hopefully it will come down ... but knowing SF, it's not likely. Guess I'll just have to wait for some rando sale.

[Default.mp3]

I've heard some folks say that it can be run with an A5, be curious if that was true, would convince me to try them out in lieu of my LMT eBCGs (since I can just pop out the bolts).