Holosun 509T First Look - Guns and Tactics

[John Hwang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw8V4p7MWRA&feature=emb_logo

[VIPER 237]

It’s pretty sweet when I shot with it. Supposedly fully submergible up to 1 meter.

[tact]

Aaron Cowan did a decent review as well.

[voodoo_man]

Unboxing video, with no real use of it other than a few rounds during a game shoot.

Holosun fell into the trap of not sending it out to people who will provide a legit review. Maybe because it won't hold up? Maybe because they were stingy?

Guess only time will tell.

Even though I dislike it, the proprietary footprint is a good business move.

However, the fact that everything is being pushed back to the MOS platform, especially if you want choices, is fucking annoying as hell.

[tact]

Unboxing video, with no real use of it other than a few rounds during a game shoot.

Holosun fell into the trap of not sending it out to people who will provide a legit review. Maybe because it won't hold up? Maybe because they were stingy?

Guess only time will tell.

Even though I dislike it, the proprietary footprint is a good business move.

However, the fact that everything is being pushed back to the MOS platform, especially if you want choices, is fucking annoying as hell.

Seems like a decent review......are you just upset they didn’t send you one?


https://youtu.be/ZSh3Ui44osU

[UWone77]

Unboxing video, with no real use of it other than a few rounds during a game shoot.

Holosun fell into the trap of not sending it out to people who will provide a legit review. Maybe because it won't hold up? Maybe because they were stingy?

Guess only time will tell.

Even though I dislike it, the proprietary footprint is a good business move.

However, the fact that everything is being pushed back to the MOS platform, especially if you want choices, is fucking annoying as hell.

Dude Stop, Dave Timm is a legit shooter. Holosun gave him a T&E model for a limited time as they were in demand and only had so many optics at the time to go around. They're planning on letting have one for an extended period. He plans to do an extended review when that happens. Nothing wrong with an initial impression, overview video.

[gatordev]

7191

[BoilerUp]

Hmmm, I wonder if this might work well on an MP5K. I'd like a red dot, but want something that runs close to the rail and I like how this had the circle dot option.

[voodoo_man]

Dude Stop, Dave Timm is a legit shooter. Holosun gave him a T&E model for a limited time as they were in demand and only had so many optics at the time to go around. They're planning on letting have one for an extended period. He plans to do an extended review when that happens. Nothing wrong with an initial impression, overview video.

Stop...telling the truth?

Being a good shooter =\= understanding how a firearm is employed in the real world / EDC carry situations.

Three weeks of carrying the ACRO I've already found TWO serious flaws which aimpoint either disregarded or was never told about because they didn't have people worth while t&e'ing the units. That's not my fault, that's their fault, and the same thing goes for everyone else.

Unboxing videos have been a long time weakness in the youtube-type reviewer channels. They need to extend their videos as long as possible because they get paid on the NUMBER of minutes/hours watched NOT the content. So a 9 minute video where there's 5 minutes of complete fluff is only good for the person making the money and a complete waste for the rest of us. What does anyone of us care what kind of box and what kind of accessories come with a piece that it'll literally sit on top of a gun?

Then again, kids love to watch toy unboxing videos, so maybe that plays a role here.

[gatordev]

I think the point of contention is that just because you don't know if units were sent out by Holosun doesn't mean no units were sent out. Maybe they weren't, and that's unfortunate. But given the feedback I've heard on the 507s, Holosun has been leaving a lot of professionals (not Youtubers) with positive feelings.



Three weeks of carrying the ACRO I've already found TWO serious flaws which aimpoint either disregarded or was never told about because they didn't have people worth while t&e'ing the units.

Care to share? I'm having mixed reactions on it after my first range trip today, doing nothing more than enjoying shooting (and not enjoying zeroing).

[voodoo_man]

I think the point of contention is that just because you don't know if units were sent out by Holosun doesn't mean no units were sent out. Maybe they weren't, and that's unfortunate. But given the feedback I've heard on the 507s, Holosun has been leaving a lot of professionals (not Youtubers) with positive feelings.

Care to share? I'm having mixed reactions on it after my first range trip today, doing nothing more than enjoying shooting (and not enjoying zeroing).

I highly doubt anyone got prototype units to t&e with the purpose of changing the designs before production was started of standard models. Most companies don't do this to their detriment.

If you can show me the professionals you are referring to who were not given free units to keep on the basis they provide positive reviews I'll gladly listen to them. We all know that's essentially not the case for the vast majority of "reviewers" or personalities.

Two biggest issues for the ACRO, dot is way too big (needs to be 1 or 2 moa at most) and the control buttons are not able to locked in place, so that means the unit can be turned off, brightness increased or decreased accidentally just by carrying it. Both things that would have been near-immediately observable if they provided units to people who can give such insight and don't just want free shit to propagate their popularity.

[Dave Timm]

Stop...telling the truth?

Being a good shooter =\= understanding how a firearm is employed in the real world / EDC carry situations.

Three weeks of carrying the ACRO I've already found TWO serious flaws which aimpoint either disregarded or was never told about because they didn't have people worth while t&e'ing the units. That's not my fault, that's their fault, and the same thing goes for everyone else.

Unboxing videos have been a long time weakness in the youtube-type reviewer channels. They need to extend their videos as long as possible because they get paid on the NUMBER of minutes/hours watched NOT the content. So a 9 minute video where there's 5 minutes of complete fluff is only good for the person making the money and a complete waste for the rest of us. What does anyone of us care what kind of box and what kind of accessories come with a piece that it'll literally sit on top of a gun?

Then again, kids love to watch toy unboxing videos, so maybe that plays a role here.

Hi there,
I don't think we've met in person, if so I apologize. The video wasn't meant to be a review, and in fact never said it was, it was literally a First Look video. While I don't like the term unboxing, it is really my version of that except I like to provide a little more information than what you find online like testing with holsters, showing detail shots etc. as well as a range trip. Yes this was a short turn around video as my time with it was limited. I am hoping to get one for a while where I can do a more proper review and I'm lucky to live in an area where I can provide some pretty harsh testing.

I agree that just because someone is a shooter it does not equal understanding how a firearm is deployed in the real world. I do feel pretty confident in my knowledge and background of knowing how a gun is used in reality though. I've been a street cop since 2002 and have been carrying a dot on a handgun for a few years, again in an environment (Minnesota) that is pretty hard on gear. I can tell you stories about this and that but I don't have a beard so I realize my creditability is likely already shot.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the Acro as I don't have one yet. I try to look at things with a realistic approach and user focus. I try to spend a good amount of time at the range whether it be for work, training or for content and I try to compete a little here and there as well as it offers growing opportunities and fun. Last, I am always open to criticism and I know I can always be better. If you truly think I'd adding fluff, I'm not. Yeah at times I do loop back, usually because of on take that overlapped another. I don't add fluff for the sake of time and in fact I'm really trying to make shorter videos. I try to get the info out that I would want to know about the product, see it up close with quality detail shots versus the crappy look at my hands un-boxing videos, and have good audio as well. I don't get paid by the minute watched, in fact most of our videos don't even have the ads turned on so we don't get paid at all.

Best regards,
-Dave

[gatordev]

I highly doubt anyone got prototype units to t&e with the purpose of changing the designs before production was started of standard models. Most companies don't do this to their detriment.

Could be. Can't answer to that.


If you can show me the professionals you are referring to who were not given free units to keep on the basis they provide positive reviews I'll gladly listen to them. We all know that's essentially not the case for the vast majority of "reviewers" or personalities.

Can't answer that. And if you read my previous post, I made no such claims. However. there are numerous people (including actual people I know who are in your apparent line of work) that are VERY impressed with the 507 in real-world applications. The hope is that the 509 is of equal prestige.


Two biggest issues for the ACRO, dot is way too big (needs to be 1 or 2 moa at most) and the control buttons are not able to locked in place, so that means the unit can be turned off, brightness increased or decreased accidentally just by carrying it. Both things that would have been near-immediately observable if they provided units to people who can give such insight and don't just want free shit to propagate their popularity.

Thanks. I appreciate the response. Dot size seems to be a thing for you, and that is what it is (not a dig, I get you prefer what you prefer). As for the buttons....I think I might have inadvertently turned off my dot today. I wasn't sure, and couldn't find the dot, but then hit a button and it was back, but it was brighter, so wasn't sure if what happened is what I thought happened. That's something I'll keep my eye on it after hearing your experience.

[Joelski]

Shawn Ryan is a God.

[voodoo_man]

Hi there,
I don't think we've met in person, if so I apologize. The video wasn't meant to be a review, and in fact never said it was, it was literally a First Look video. While I don't like the term unboxing, it is really my version of that except I like to provide a little more information than what you find online like testing with holsters, showing detail shots etc. as well as a range trip. Yes this was a short turn around video as my time with it was limited. I am hoping to get one for a while where I can do a more proper review and I'm lucky to live in an area where I can provide some pretty harsh testing.

I agree that just because someone is a shooter it does not equal understanding how a firearm is deployed in the real world. I do feel pretty confident in my knowledge and background of knowing how a gun is used in reality though. I've been a street cop since 2002 and have been carrying a dot on a handgun for a few years, again in an environment (Minnesota) that is pretty hard on gear. I can tell you stories about this and that but I don't have a beard so I realize my creditability is likely already shot.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on the Acro as I don't have one yet. I try to look at things with a realistic approach and user focus. I try to spend a good amount of time at the range whether it be for work, training or for content and I try to compete a little here and there as well as it offers growing opportunities and fun. Last, I am always open to criticism and I know I can always be better. If you truly think I'd adding fluff, I'm not. Yeah at times I do loop back, usually because of on take that overlapped another. I don't add fluff for the sake of time and in fact I'm really trying to make shorter videos. I try to get the info out that I would want to know about the product, see it up close with quality detail shots versus the crappy look at my hands un-boxing videos, and have good audio as well. I don't get paid by the minute watched, in fact most of our videos don't even have the ads turned on so we don't get paid at all.

Best regards,
-Dave

While you should feel absolutely zero need to post whenever anyone is critical of any of your content (god knows I don't), I'll point some things out here since you decided to.

If you had a negative view of this particular optic, would you have posted a video explaining it? Especially knowing full well you would likely never get another optic from holosun (or anyone else)?

Your video is 10minutes long, it could have been about 2 minutes if you cut out all the fluff, YT pays for minutes viewed and that's how you gain in popularity - that's their only metric.

I'm glad your department allows you post videos and other things without IA being down your throat, my PD isn't that kind. If you're doing it to make money, which you undoubtedly should be, don't hide it or try to explain why you may not be, there's no shame in it. Make your money, but don't expect those of us who know better to freely accept anything anyone is putting out there when it's clearly leaning one way in order to gain traction in the guntertainment side of the industry.



Could be. Can't answer to that.

Can't answer that. And if you read my previous post, I made no such claims. However. there are numerous people (including actual people I know who are in your apparent line of work) that are VERY impressed with the 507 in real-world applications. The hope is that the 509 is of equal prestige.

Thanks. I appreciate the response. Dot size seems to be a thing for you, and that is what it is (not a dig, I get you prefer what you prefer). As for the buttons....I think I might have inadvertently turned off my dot today. I wasn't sure, and couldn't find the dot, but then hit a button and it was back, but it was brighter, so I wasn't sure if what happened is what I thought happened. That's something I'll keep my eye on it after hearing your experience.

I don't care what "numerous people," think or what they are impressed with. This industry is full of people with confirmation bias and those who blindly go along to get along. Things I've continuously proven incorrect in various real-world applications, dots are just another one in the mix. Just because I am not particularly nice about it doesn't mean what I am saying is incorrect. As I've always said, if there is something people disagree with me on, please come out and meet me on the range, meet me for a ride-along, and I'll show you how it works in the real world. While no one has yet taken my offer for a ride-along, there have quite a few people who have had their opinions changed upon showing and explaining certain concepts face to face.

Those who understand how and why dots are supposed to be used in the real world immediately accept the fact that the smallest possible, clearest, and most crisp dot, is the only way to go. There is no in-between. Most instructors who claim to be dot instructors or whatever, don't understand how the real world works and they teach a gaming application to reality - which is a logical fallacy.

[tact]

Holosun didn’t send you a 509.......you mad bro?

BTW you aren’t above the crowd you appear to be crusading against.

Just a few off the top of my head....

Telling people that they must have/need a special purpose designed AIWB to carry AIWB and then subsequently pedaling your super awesome personally designed belt is convenient. Regardless of the relationship, your “real world” supporting evidence is anecdotal at best.

Same thing with your flashlight data. Seriously.....this super all the hotness light saved me from shooting a subject. GTFO

What you provide is really no different than everyone else who reviews product.....your perspective and your experience whether it tends to be biased or not. Instead you have seemingly become self absorbed and think that you and you alone are THE foremost authority on all things reviewed by Voodoo which is nothing more than a way to crank out content to increase your visibility on the interwebs.

Honestly, did you become more pompous after the first patch they made of your avatar or the second?

[voodoo_man]

Holosun didn’t send you a 509.......you mad bro?

BTW you aren’t above the crowd you appear to be crusading against.

Just a few off the top of my head....

Telling people that they must have/need a special purpose designed AIWB to carry AIWB and then subsequently pedaling your super awesome personally designed belt is convenient. Regardless of the relationship, your “real world” supporting evidence is anecdotal at best.

Same thing with your flashlight data. Seriously.....this super all the hotness light saved me from shooting a subject. GTFO

What you provide is really no different than everyone else who reviews product.....your perspective and your experience whether it tends to be biased or not. Instead you have seemingly become self absorbed and think that you and you alone are THE foremost authority on all things reviewed by Voodoo which is nothing more than a way to crank out content to increase your visibility on the interwebs.

Honestly, did you become more pompous after the first patch they made of your avatar or the second?

It's common courtesy to quote the person you're responding to.

Since you're being honest, do continue to just go completely off topic and ad hominem your way into a weak position.

The fact you took the time to dredge things up from other issues tells me you've got some personal issues you've wanted to flex about, please continue, maybe in 3rd grade I pushed you on the recess field?

Here's one for you, since you clearly have an issue with yourself, the inflection you put into what you read is based off your bias, nothing else. Makes you mad, I assume, since I'm living rent free in your head.

Nothing you've posting in your weak tyriad above has disproven anything I've ever posted, but again, please, take anything I have posted on the above mentioned topics and write out a logical opposition article to.

I'll be eager to read it.

Edit: just to add, if you want to follow me from forum to forum trolling, do yourself a favor and quit while you're ahead.

[gatordev]

I don't care what "numerous people," think or what they are impressed with. This industry is full of people with confirmation bias and those who blindly go along to get along. Things I've continuously proven incorrect in various real-world applications, dots are just another one in the mix. Just because I am not particularly nice about it doesn't mean what I am saying is incorrect.

You seem to be the only one who continues to bring up "the industry." Again, not who I'm referring to. You have repeatedly stated that your policing experience is superior to others. You have posted things that I've found helpful and have found I agree with as it applies to my (non-LE) use. But you lose me when you assume you know more than everyone else, including those doing (presumably) the same job you do.



As I've always said, if there is something people disagree with me on, please come out and meet me on the range, meet me for a ride-along, and I'll show you how it works in the real world. While no one has yet taken my offer for a ride-along, there have quite a few people who have had their opinions changed upon showing and explaining certain concepts face to face.

I'd love to go for a ride along. To date, it's very fuzzy on what you actually do. Perhaps that's why there aren't any takers. I'd love to learn things, even if they don't have an immediate application to my world. If I can't learn something from someone who has different experiences, I'm not trying. Sadly I don't live in the north east.


Those who understand how and why dots are supposed to be used in the real world immediately accept the fact that the smallest possible, clearest, and most crisp dot, is the only way to go. There is no in-between. Most instructors who claim to be dot instructors or whatever, don't understand how the real world works and they teach a gaming application to reality - which is a logical fallacy.

Some people may only need something for a gaming application, whether that's a lever gun or a red dot. It's not for you to pass judgment on that. I don't know why you need inert training grenades, but it's not for me to say either way. You have a use for them, and life goes on.

[voodoo_man]

You seem to be the only one who continues to bring up "the industry." Again, not who I'm referring to. You have repeatedly stated that your policing experience is superior to others. You have posted things that I've found helpful and have found I agree with as it applies to my (non-LE) use. But you lose me when you assume you know more than everyone else, including those doing (presumably) the same job you do.




I'd love to go for a ride along. To date, it's very fuzzy on what you actually do. Perhaps that's why there aren't any takers. I'd love to learn things, even if they don't have an immediate application to my world. If I can't learn something from someone who has different experiences, I'm not trying. Sadly I don't live in the north east.



Some people may only need something for a gaming application, whether that's a lever gun or a red dot. It's not for you to pass judgment on that. I don't know why you need inert training grenades, but it's not for me to say either way. You have a use for them, and life goes on.

Quote me please where I have stated my policing experience is superior to others, in fact, I've gone out of my way to state that mostly all LEOs have similar experiences. As I've stated, my depts policies don't allow me to post videos of myself, I can post text and photo posts of stuff until I'm blue in the face as a private citizen but I cannot post myself, every dept is different. What I have always posted is that I have very specific experience related to the topics I talk about, notice how I don't talk about long distance shooting? Don't have a lot of experience in that field and my opinions aren't worth shit. Funny how consistency seems to work there? The "industry" is the reason a lot of issues exist, if this doesn't make sense to you, then you need to keep track of the inconsistencies.

Ride alongs are a great way to have first hand experience with what I do on a daily basis. I'm all about it. You should go for one with your local PD on a Friday/sat night in the summer first.

The issue at contention here is that because my experience and my opinions clearly differ from others, especially those who are accepted as celebs in "the industry" that I must be wrong. That's so logically inconsistent I don't need to go any further in explaining it.

Quote me showing where I am passing judgment on anyone for their particular need. In fact, I go out of my way to advise people on what they need and what works in their particular applications.

Training grenades? Ever done an active shooter opfor FoF drill with swat teams and homeland? Probably not, they work really well for that and other purposes as training aids for situational awareness.

[gatordev]

Quote me please where I have stated my policing experience is superior to others,

Okay...but given your response to tact, please understand this is limited in scope. There's plenty of other observations.


Being a good shooter =\= understanding how a firearm is employed in the real world / EDC carry situations.

Quoted after another cop posted something.


Holosun has been leaving a lot of professionals (not Youtubers) with positive feelings.


If you can show me the professionals you are referring to who were not given free units to keep on the basis they provide positive reviews I'll gladly listen to them. We all know that's essentially not the case for the vast majority of "reviewers" or personalities.


However. there are numerous people (including actual people I know who are in your apparent line of work) that are VERY impressed with the 507 in real-world applications.


I don't care what "numerous people," think or what they are impressed with.

That's just from this thread.


The issue at contention here is that because my experience and my opinions clearly differ from others, especially those who are accepted as celebs in "the industry" that I must be wrong.

Again, you're missing the point. No one is beating you up because you disagree with "industry celebs."


Quote me showing where I am passing judgment on anyone for their particular need. In fact, I go out of my way to advise people on what they need and what works in their particular applications.

See pretty much the entire EDC flashlight (note: not originally an LE flashlight) thread. But we're straying from the specifics of this thread, so I'll refrain.


Training grenades? Ever done an active shooter opfor FoF drill with swat teams and homeland? Probably not,

So you have a use for one. The exact point of my statement. Okay, I'll play...ever needed a .50 caliber for LE operations? Probably not... That doesn't mean it isn't a thing, and it may very well be a thing you've experienced. This is where people start rolling their eyes. You have a use, that doesn't mean your use grants more wisdom than others. It's different experiences, all of which can be shared here and combined make us all better and wiser citizens.

I'll throttle back, as bickering on the internet isn't going to be productive at the end of the day. Just understand that you're seeing multiple posts as a result of your online attitude (which I completely understand may not actually be your real persona). Choose to observe that or don't, but it's not like it's only one person making the observation.

[voodoo_man]

Okay...but given your response to tact, please understand this is limited in scope. There's plenty of other observations.



Quoted after another cop posted something.









That's just from this thread.



Again, you're missing the point. No one is beating you up because you disagree with "industry celebs."



See pretty much the entire EDC flashlight (note: not originally an LE flashlight) thread. But we're straying from the specifics of this thread, so I'll refrain.



So you have a use for one. The exact point of my statement. Okay, I'll play...ever needed a .50 caliber for LE operations? Probably not... That doesn't mean it isn't a thing, and it may very well be a thing you've experienced. This is where people start rolling their eyes. You have a use, that doesn't mean your use grants more wisdom than others. It's different experiences, all of which can be shared here and combined make us all better and wiser citizens.

I'll throttle back, as bickering on the internet isn't going to be productive at the end of the day. Just understand that you're seeing multiple posts as a result of your online attitude (which I completely understand may not actually be your real persona). Choose to observe that or don't, but it's not like it's only one person making the observation.

On phone so I won't be quoting each thing.

My response to tact was the way it was because he's a troll, he knows hes a troll, we know he's a troll, he's got nothing of worth to add and that's his issue, not mine.

First group of quotes doesn't show me anything I'm asking for, I don't know what you're trying to get at, but it isn't immediately obvious with what I asked you to quote me saying and what you actually quoted.

I'm not missing the point when the point is that if the same "industry" people all started pissing on the holosun and I was for it, this would be the same conversation, do you follow?

The EDC flashlight conversation was the way it was because people don't want to spend money on things. Then those same people want to have an emotionally significant confirmation of their purchase. Again, all I did was share my personal experience, which I could easily not do at all, and that'll make sure no one gets that content, because you definitely won't get it from the "industry" types.

Your .50 to hand grenades comparison is literally that. I have never made any statement that my experience is the be all end all, if I did please quote me on it. Call me out each time because I want to own that type of thing. You did, however, make my point for me. I don't talk about .50's because I've got nearly no experience with them in an LE application. See the consistency?

Again, I don't care what people think. No one here is going to tell me what I experienced first hand, repeatedly at times, is false. Just like no one would for anything anyone else posts (unless they are actually lying and are being called out). Also, again, I'll point out the fact that since it's impossible to determine inflection of tone via typed texted without actually hearing the person speaking on the topic, I'll point out again that you are injecting your own personal bias. Prove me wrong.

Beyond all this, I could just not post anything at all, and everyone will not even hear there's another side to the conversation. Maybe circle jerking is something some people are into, I'm not. I'm into providing information that is ethical as it applies to equipment and training. People wanna call me out on it? It's to their detriment, not mine.

Forums are dying anyway, only reason I'm even here and posting content in this way is because I know stick and uwone, plenty of other forums out there I don't reply to anything on and just AstroTurf.

[UWone77]

Unboxing video, with no real use of it other than a few rounds during a game shoot.

Holosun fell into the trap of not sending it out to people who will provide a legit review. Maybe because it won't hold up? Maybe because they were stingy?

Guess only time will tell.

Even though I dislike it, the proprietary footprint is a good business move.

However, the fact that everything is being pushed back to the MOS platform, especially if you want choices, is fucking annoying as hell.

I enjoy your contributions here and to the firearms community. I read most of your articles.

However, you came in to this thread hot.

The video literally says, a first look. There's nothing wrong with providing a quick overview of a new product. Maybe you didn't get anything out of it and that's fine, but why in your first line response say Holosun didn't send it to people for a legit review?

[gatordev]

I'm not missing the point when the point is that if the same "industry" people all started pissing on the holosun and I was for it, this would be the same conversation, do you follow?

No, I don't. It again misses the point. I don't care what other people say as it relates to your thoughts. I also don't care what your thoughts are as it relates to others. They are all data points, for the individual to determine the validity as it pertains to them.


The EDC flashlight conversation was the way it was because people don't want to spend money on things. Then those same people want to have an emotionally significant confirmation of their purchase. Again, all I did was share my personal experience, which I could easily not do at all, and that'll make sure no one gets that content, because you definitely won't get it from the "industry" types.

You're clearly not getting it from that thread. No one cared what "the industry" said there. It was individuals saying what they thought they needed, and you crapping on them for thinking that way. Zero people in that thread were criticizing your thoughts on what you thought was important. It was you crapping on others for verbalizing what was important to them. The two don't have to intersect.


Again, I don't care what people think. No one here is going to tell me what I experienced first hand, repeatedly at times, is false...

...I'll point out again that you are injecting your own personal bias. Prove me wrong.


No one has to prove you wrong. That's the point. And no one is telling you your experiences are wrong. The point is to stop telling other people that they're wrong because their usage differs from yours. It's that simple.