Crazy $$$ Build

[Aragorn]

So the day finally came where I said “F*ck it. I’m gonna build the rifle I want.”

An End-of-the-World Race Recce built with the best synergies from the combat, race, and lightweight realms of AR’s.

No compromises. None, whatsoever, of any kind. Money no object.

To do this I made and followed a thought tree for part selection.

Function > Ergonomics/Interface > Weight

Function of the given part first and foremost. Of everything available, which can do the job best? What’s toughest and least likely to fail? What additional benefits can be gained?

Following function was ergonomics and interfacing considerations. We’ve all handled weapons that felt great, and we’ve all handled weapons that haven’t. Small differences can make a very tangible difference. I wanted to address this and put together a weapon that felt molded as much as possible for the human to machine interface. As a parallel, I wanted the weapon to have a soft and silky smooth recoil impulse.

Once these conditions were met, or when they were non-applicable or at a performance tie, weight was the deciding factor. Decided by the differences down to the ounce and gram.

The parts list:

Tip to Tail

Barrel:
* Proof Research 16” Carbon Fiber 1/8 w/ Intermediate gas
* SLR Multicolor Anodized Ti Sentry 7 GB w/ Nitrided Gas Tube

Receivers/Forend
* Modern Carbine Brace Built MC6

Upper Components:
* Forward Controls EPC
* V7 Ultra Light Minimal FA
* V7 Straight Dust Cover Rod
* Radian Raptor CH

BCG:
* LMT E-BCG
* V7 Cam Pin
* JP One Piece Gas Ring

Lower Componets:
* Brace Built Receiver Matched Pivot Pins
* Forward Controls ABC/r v3 Bolt Catch
* V7 Ti Grip Screw
* BAD Mag. Catch
* Forward Controls EMR-H (Mag. Release)
* Forward Controls Mag. Catch Spring
* Umbrella Grip 23
* V7 2055 Aluminum Lithium Carbine Buffer Tube
* V7 Lightweight Castle Nut / End Plate

Trigger
* JP Roller Module & Safety

Buffer System:
* JP SCS

Stock:
* Magpul SL w/ Limbsaver Recoil Pad

Sights:
* Rainier BUIS

Optic:
* Kahles K18i -1x8
* Scalarworks Leap 30mm Mount

Pics of the receivers and other parts on hand. (Nevermind)

I’m going to do a back to back shootout with a few different muzzle devices and roll with whichever performs best. Goal with that is minimal flash and a flat muzzle.

The MC6 Chassis was chosen due to the incredible level of detail they put into it. 7075 for the receivers and even the forend. It had all the features I wanted without any I didn’t. I wanted something lightweight with a flared magwell, forward assist, and without the addition of ambi controls. I ALSO wanted something that was a true free float, which this is as the rail does not contact the barrel nut. The MC6 has ALL of that plus a little. Upper receiver tensioning and the inclusion of a cam pin track in the upper receiver to prevent dragging and scarring. Very nice. The set is cerakoted in what looks like, to my eye, a dark charcoal. It DOES have a crap ton of machine marks. You can see the lines of pretty much every single cutting operation of the CNC machine. HOWEVER, it is consistent and symmetrical and the former machinist that still resides within me is unbothered. In fact I actually kind of like it. Combined with the color and parts selection, it seems like it’s almost going to come together with a bit of a neo-industrial feel, which I think is kind of cool.

I went with an intermediate gas system for maximum system smoothness, and combined with the adjustable gas block, LMT E-Carrier, and JP SCS should be wicked smooth.

*A note on the gas block... my original intention was to use a BRT gas block with a micro tune gas port set for 5.56 (as 5.56 is all I buy). The issue I had with this was I would be limited to only 5.56 which didn’t really fit the whole... end of the world... mind set for the rifle. However I also read a piece of wisdom that said “Plan for the 99.9% of the time, not the 0.01%” which I found to be sound advice. The adjustable gas block gives me both. I can tune for total reliability with 5.56 and brass cased .223, and should 0.01% happen and the undead begin munching brains or Chinese fighters are buzzing around overhead, I can easily open the gas to run any kind of ammo.

Other things. The BCG and charging handle are currently at MAD Custom Coatings getting refinished in MAD Black Plus, their signature black of Cerakote Elite which is supposed to be harder/stronger/all the things better than regular Cerakote while having a working coefficient of friction that rivals Teflon. This fits well into my criteria for both ruggedness and smoothness.

The optic is going to be a Kahles 1-8 riding in a Scalarworks 30mm mount. Optic was a hard choice for me and eventually I came down to the Kahles and the S&B PM2 Short Dot CC. I wanted something where I could PID targets within the effective range of a 5.56 75-77gr. OTM and engage them with precision. I want that while giving up nothing in across the room speed and performance. Not the easiest choice I’ve ever made. I ultimately went with the Kahles for the ultra wide FOV and weight. I just couldn’t realistically see much difference between the two at 1x. Scalarworks mount chosen because I love the one for my MRO and it’s the lightest available that’s quick on and off.

All parts are bought and paid for, most in hand. I’m just waiting for the scope to show up from Brownells, and the barrel which is potentially 12 weeks out. (Buzzkill)

To further personalize and make the rifle unique, I’ll be having some custom artwork deep laser engraved.

TL;DR: I’m building a super badass rifle. There’s a pic of the receivers somewhere in the middle.

[Aragorn]

Nevermind no pics.

Can’t upload direct to WEVO from an iPhone, iPad, and for whatever reason not Flickr either. So after about 6 conniptions and one iPad destroyed from a high velocity impact, I gave up.

[Stone]

Sounds killer! Especially with the kahles as a cherry on top. I did a no holds barred build a while back and dont regret it one bit. Take a look at precision armaments AFAB, its top notch at hiding flash and shoots real flat. In fact I have it on all my rifles. https://precisionarmament.com/product/afab-flash-hider-compensator/

Is the proof 556 or 223 wylde?

[Aragorn]

Yeah I’ve got the AFAB and the EFAB. I like both. I saw on the data sheet that the EFAB is like 6% better as a brake than the AFAB for braking, but I’m a little curious how something like FC 1815 does in comparison at just holding a muzzle down in terms of pure flatness. But yes, there’s a very very strong probability I’ll end up with another EFAB, or the slightly shorter and lighter AFAB.

Is there a thread or some pics of your no holds barred build floating around somewhere?

[Stone]

Somewhere. Not sure where though. If I cant find it I can post some pics for you tomorrow.

[Stone]

I cant find it and dont think I did a thread on it. I do have the pics from the build and a parts list. If you want I can post them here or shoot me a PM and I can email them to you...

[UWone77]

So what do you think of the Brace Built ?

[Aragorn]

Is the proof 556 or 223 wylde?

Sorry Stone I totally missed this. It’s a Wylde chamber.


So what do you think of the Brace Built ?

I’ve got a whole lot of praise and two complaints. The ingenuity and pure thoughtfulness they put into it is amazing. Barrel installation couldn’t be easier. No timing and uses a barrel nut that may weigh an ounce. The forend is 7075-T6 and auto indexes itself to the upper. It’s a true free float as the barrel nut does not contact the forend. Receiver and forend lines flow and blend into each other cleanly and artfully. Weight has been tastefully brought down without looking forced or gaudy. The cam pin track is a tasteful addition that I didn’t immediately notice, and totally invalidated my purchase of a V7 cam pin. (I tend to buy V7 cam pins for their rounded shoulders to help reduce cam pin wear/drag in the upper.). A small channel is milled just to the left of the bolt catch roll pin so you’re less likely to garf up the lower while driving in that roll pin. I mean they put a LOT of thought into this.

The downsides are in the fit and finish. You can see every cutting line the CNC made. It’s clean and symmetrical, but they could have easily been hidden by just anodizing instead of using cerakote. It doesn’t bother me personally, but I’m betting it would a lot of people. The other thing is that my particular set, the upper and lower fit together very poorly. I mean it DOES have an upper receiver tensioning screw, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are literally the worse fit upper to lower pair I’ve ever ran across, INCLUDING randomly paired receivers.

[mustangfreek]

Congrats on the all out build...

That’s quite a list. Good stuff of form and function.

[UWone77]

I don't own any Brace Built stuff, but I got to handle some at Rainier. I like the looks of the receivers, nice lines, but you're right, if you're a fit/finish guy, the fit seemed ok, but the finish was kind of on the just ok side. i think my no-budget build would center around the Radian lower myself because of ambi.

The Kahles 1-8 will be off the hook! More pics when you're done!

[Aragorn]

Congrats on the all out build...

That’s quite a list. Good stuff of form and function.

Thanks! I’ve just been wanting to do it for so long, and I’m about to be shifting gears this year and putting money into other interests so it was getting to be now or.... possibly sometime in the unforeseeable future, which could include never.


I don't own any Brace Built stuff, but I got to handle some at Rainier. I like the looks of the receivers, nice lines, but you're right, if you're a fit/finish guy, the fit seemed ok, but the finish was kind of on the just ok side. i think my no-budget build would center around the Radian lower myself because of ambi.

The Kahles 1-8 will be off the hook! More pics when you're done!

I actually almost went that route and purchased a radian set, but I don’t really have a need or desire for an ambi, save for the CH.

And yes! I’ll definitely be posting up pics as things progress; laser engraving, completion and all that. Gonna be awhile though before that barrel shows up.

[apmcdaniel]

This is a great build, extremely thoughtful. Looking forward to the finished product, both pictures and range report. [emoji41][emoji106]


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[apmcdaniel]

Nevermind no pics.

Can’t upload direct to WEVO from an iPhone, iPad, and for whatever reason not Flickr either. So after about 6 conniptions and one iPad destroyed from a high velocity impact, I gave up.

If you use Tapatalk on iPhone, uploading pictures is straightforward and easy. You simply click on the pictures icon, choose which album, then which pics you want, and upload them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aragorn]

Alright guys, I’ve reached an impasse.

Proof barrels don’t exist. Full disclosure, I cancelled the order. Too much going on, rather have the money in these times.

So. Barrel options. I can either wait to purchase a Proof later.... probably way, way, WAY later as I’ve looked at every single retailer that sells proof several times over the past few months. At this point, I’m feeling kind of over waiting.

The other option that really has me thinking about it is to get a Black River Tactical 14” MPC (medium profile). And yes that’s 14”, not 14.5” which would work perfectly with something like an AFAB or EFAB. I’ve got their 16” LPR (light profile) and frankly I love how the gun wearing it handles. The tapered profiles are very nice for weight and balance. The 14” weighs the same as the 16” I have, so it would still be light and handy, and should have superior thermal and accuracy properties just due to being the same weight while shorter. I also know these barrels are super smooth shooting, which is one of my criteria.

So, lighter/handier... presumably as good from a practical accuracy standpoint. What are y’all’s opinions? Will the velocity loss be noticeably detrimental over distance? Am I restricting myself if I do this? There’s also the gains in weapon handiness to consider.

My last option... well... I DID find ONE PLACE that has 16” proof barrels, but it’s a middy and not an intermediate, weighs 1 oz. less because of it. Wouldn’t be as smooth as the intermediate or the BRT barrel... but it is a proof and it is available. For the moment.

[UWone77]

Why did you want a Proof barrel in the first place? Weight? Carbon Fiber look?

[Aragorn]

The weight and accuracy. Cool factor doesn’t hurt, but mostly because the accuracy reports I’ve found are amazing, thermal shift doesn’t seem to be a thing, and it weighs 28oz.

[Aragorn]

Also... I guess if I’m willing to wait I found a place out of state where I could get 10% off.... so that would put it at around $720 bucks (the place I canceled from was in state so after taxes I was at $850).

So, maybe I just need to order from there, chill and be patient.

[fledge]

Reading back over your criteria, I think you should get the proof. I don’t think you’d be satisfied with anything else for this build.

[Aragorn]

Reading back over your criteria, I think you should get the proof. I don’t think you’d be satisfied with anything else for this build.

You know, after thinking about it more I think you’re right. Also occurred to me that some of y’all have waited a year or over for suppressors before... what’s 14-16 weeks?

Still waiting on the art and and multicolor anodized gas block anyways.

[Aragorn]

Hm, well apparently I can attach photos with the new iPad...

Anyways, so I’ve got my LMT E-BCG back from Mad Custom coatings. Looks great! Except for this...

7475

Is this roughness going to cause a problem? Uneven load on the bolt face or lugs or anything that would effect accuracy? Do I need to email them back with a pic and “WTF” and have the bolt redone?

[tact]

The weight and accuracy. Cool factor doesn’t hurt, but mostly because the accuracy reports I’ve found are amazing, thermal shift doesn’t seem to be a thing, and it weighs 28oz.

They’re not consistently accurate.....not worth it.

[UWone77]

They’re not consistently accurate.....not worth it.

Honestly, I can get more than 2 UltraMatch Barrels from Rainier for the cost of a Proof. Is it twice the barrel?

Aragon, if you want it, you should get it. I personally don't see the value, but I know what it's like to want something, settle for something else temporarily, and then have to buy it in the end. Costs you way more money not to get it the way you want it in the first place. Scratch that itch.

[tact]

Hm, well apparently I can attach photos with the new iPad...

Anyways, so I’ve got my LMT E-BCG back from Mad Custom coatings. Looks great! Except for this...

7475

Is this roughness going to cause a problem? Uneven load on the bolt face or lugs or anything that would effect accuracy? Do I need to email them back with a pic and “WTF” and have the bolt redone?

I would definitely contact them and have them re-coat it. I have had two complete BCG coated by them in the past and nothing like that ever showed up.

[Aragorn]

I would definitely contact them and have them re-coat it. I have had two complete BCG coated by them in the past and nothing like that ever showed up.

Yeah, I’m going to. They’re closed Sunday's so it’ll be tomorrow. Hopefully I’ll even be able to get it out in the mail tomorrow too.

Tact, you mentioned Proof barrels not always being consistent. Tell me about this. I’ve been scouring the Internet looking for an anecdote about this and can’t seem to find anything but praise and tight groups. Closest I’ve found was with XM193.... or possibly XM855 (pretty sure it was 193), and grouping about 1.5 MOA, but around 1/2 MOA with the same barrel and March ammo.

[tact]

Yeah, I’m going to. They’re closed Sunday's so it’ll be tomorrow. Hopefully I’ll even be able to get it out in the mail tomorrow too.

Tact, you mentioned Proof barrels not always being consistent. Tell me about this. I’ve been scouring the Internet looking for an anecdote about this and can’t seem to find anything but praise and tight groups. Closest I’ve found was with XM193.... or possibly XM855 (pretty sure it was 193), and grouping about 1.5 MOA, but around 1/2 MOA with the same barrel and March ammo.

I’ll send a PM.

[Former11B]

You know, after thinking about it more I think you’re right. Also occurred to me that some of y’all have waited a year or over for suppressors before... what’s 14-16 weeks?

Still waiting on the art and and multicolor anodized gas block anyways.

Mine came straight from Proof after 9 weeks and they quoted me 14.

https://i.imgur.com/UOMtE1L.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xLPOA1Q.jpg

It’s a stainless barrel, not a CF, and I got it for a good price. It honestly doesn’t seem that heavy for a 20” barrel and there’s ZERO recoil/muzzle rise with the brake and gas combo

My first three round and five round groups during break in were 1/2” @ 100yds. I think I’m going with 24.3gr Varget and 77gr SMKs

I need a 15” Geissele rail in place of the 13” now

[Aragorn]

Former that’s gorgeous! Groups are in line with what I’ve been reading as well. I’ve got another order in for a CF, $719 with a code so significantly cheaper than what’s generally out there. What muzzle device is that? That’s a suppressor mount right? I’m probably going to end up with an EFAB.

[Aragorn]

Tact, I went to send you a reply but your PM’s are full.

[Former11B]

Former that’s gorgeous! Groups are in line with what I’ve been reading as well. I’ve got another order in for a CF, $719 with a code so significantly cheaper than what’s generally out there. What muzzle device is that? That’s a suppressor mount right? I’m probably going to end up with an EFAB.

Griffin’s single chamber brake w/taper mount.

[tact]

Tact, I went to send you a reply but your PM’s are full.

Sorry.....made some room.

[n4p226r]

looks great.

as for the stainless barrel instead of their carbon fiber offerings, is there anything about their stainless barrels that make them very different from a standard higher end stainless offering from other places?

[Aragorn]

Nothing like waiting weeks and weeks and weeks for a Proof barrel... just to have them send you the wrong one...

[UWone77]

Nothing like waiting weeks and weeks and weeks for a Proof barrel... just to have them send you the wrong one...

We talking like they sent you a 16" instead of an 18" type mistake... or the entirely wrong caliber?

[Aragorn]

More like the first. Wrong gas system. They’re already working on it, but I’m not feeling hopeful that they have the correct one in stock in this environment. Just hoping I don’t find myself at the back end of another 8-12 week waiting period again.

Still waiting on the multi color anodized gas block from SLR. The one I ordered in May. I’ve been told a couple times by them that it’ll be on the next production run. Last month they told me two more months, but I’m having a hell of a time believing they haven’t ran gas blocks since May. Honestly I think they’re just hoping I forget about it at this point. Irritating.

Muzzle device is in the mail, a Rugged Flash Hider Suppressor Mount for the Rugged Radiant I have in jail, though truthfully that suppressor is more for my .300. Still want to be able to mount and use it on this.

Receivers are at the engravers for the laser engraving (which is going to be freaking sick) and hoping to have them back this week.

Just leaves the Kahles which I’m hoping to order next month.

So, various stages of disarray, but getting there. Kind of.

On a notification list for a KAC bipod. Throw a small pic section up front and then should be able to quickly reconfigure from End of the World Race Recce to Mini SASS. Or something like that.

[Aragorn]

I’m pivoting on this. Going to Form 1 the lower and SBR it. What are opinions on 11.5” vs. 12.5” barrels? Still looking to be lethal at 4-500y with 75-77gr. ammo. No other changes planned.

[fledge]

12.5 is considered the best all around length. Do it! And since you want to spend crazy $$, consider the Hodge barrel.

I think proof still has an 11.5 if you want to go proof route though I wouldn’t for a do-all rifle.

[Stone]

I’m pivoting on this. Going to Form 1 the lower and SBR it. What are opinions on 11.5” vs. 12.5” barrels? Still looking to be lethal at 4-500y with 75-77gr. ammo. No other changes planned.

500 yards with a 12.5" barrel? Doable but lethality is another question.

[apmcdaniel]

500 yards with a 12.5" barrel? Doable but lethality is another question.

I wish they would have used 75-77 gr. ammo for this review. It's not apples-to-apples to Aragorn's specs, but from my understanding of other reviews - those heavier bullets should be lethal out of the 12.5" barrel at 400 yrds for sure; potentially out to 500.

https://youtu.be/SdTNUvV9KyM


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[Aragorn]

I had thought something like Mk262, IMI 77gr. Razorcore, or Hornady 75gr. Frontier should perform at 500y. Maybe I need to look at that data little closer. I’m leaning 12.5” for sure. Looking at the BRT 12.5” and the Hodge.

[UWone77]

12.5 is considered the best all around length. Do it! And since you want to spend crazy $$, consider the Hodge barrel.

I think proof still has an 11.5 if you want to go proof route though I wouldn’t for a do-all rifle.

I agree with this.

Hodge 12.5 would be sick if you can find one. A Triarc or Noveske Crusader would also be in consideration if I was doing this.

[Aragorn]

Yeah that’s why I’m also looking at the BRT. Those barrels are made by Triarc, just to a different profile and a different gas port location.

Anyone have first hand experience with the Hodges? I read that they last forever and are reasonably accurate and supposed to be badass.

[mustangfreek]

Is a suppressor gonna live on it?

I’d opt for a 11.5” BRT and then a triarc second.

[Aragorn]

It’ll be suppressed a good portion of the time. Really though my bigger concern is effective range vs. length. I really want to hit that 4-500y range with good effect.

[Aragorn]

Ok I’ve been doing more digging on this Hodge barrels. Def in the market for one now.

[Stone]

Not the 12" but the 14" is in stock.
https://www.optactical.com/hode5nabar.html

[Aragorn]

Awesome but I’m looking for the 12.5”

I got on a few notification lists but looks like I may be waiting awhile. If anyone comes across one let me know.

[Stone]

I think he only does a few runs a year as it was but with the covid stuff going on it may be a really long wait... have you considered the V7 12.5"

[Aragorn]

Yeah Gator had mentioned them at some point. They’re also near the top of the consideration pile, but I don’t mind waiting awhile. Still waiting on a scope, the laser engraving (though hopefully that’ll be done this week), and I still have to form 1 the thing.

[UWone77]

Ok I’ve been doing more digging on this Hodge barrels. Def in the market for one now.

Check Weapon Outfitters. Roy always gives people a heads up and opens pre-orders when Hodge stuff is expected.

[Aragorn]

Yeah I got on the notification list there just a bit ago. Just now got on their email subscription after your comment about opening preorders. Thanks for the heads up!

[gatordev]

I can't give you the answer about energy, as I can only give you numbers I'm seeing but I'm not smart enough to know if they're "lethal" enough. But from a practical standpoint, I've found 500y to be where my 12.5" gets very touchy with wind. If you don't have a solid wind read, I've found the bullet is really getting pushed around out that far. As you know, I'm a fan of the setup, but like everything, there's positives and negatives.

[BoilerUp]

It’ll be suppressed a good portion of the time. Really though my bigger concern is effective range vs. length. I really want to hit that 4-500y range with good effect.

I personally wouldn't go under 14.5" if I was concerned about terminal ballistics beyond 300-400 yards. SOCOM barrel (Colt/BCM) for a "duty use", or Rainier UM or one of the many other fantastic match barrels on the market

[Aragorn]

Well, ran some ballistic tables using 77gr. Razorcore at 2550fps. Made an educated guess on the velocity based off what I could find online.

Matchkings frag to around 1800fps’ish.

Velocity shows around 1,700fps at 400y at 498 ft. lbs. of energy, and 1,520fps at 500y with 395 ft. lbs. of energy.

Transonic starting around 800y.

So, looks like frag range is likely behind you at 400y, but, the energy at 500y is still the same as a hot 9mm. I’ll read that as “Deadly at 500? Probably. Ballistically superior? No.”

[gatordev]

I have 2530 fps at 80* and sea level (suppressed with a mini), so sounds like your numbers are credible.

[Stone]

At 500 thats like a hail mary pass, whats the holdover? Around 8 Feet??

[Aragorn]

70.6”

vs. 60.5” out of a 16” barrel.

[docsherm]

500 yards with a 12.5" barrel? Doable but lethality is another question.

I can tell you that a Noveske 12.5 SS barrel with a Short Dot using MK262 is lethal out to 400 M.

[docsherm]

I had thought something like Mk262, IMI 77gr. Razorcore, or Hornady 75gr. Frontier should perform at 500y. Maybe I need to look at that data little closer. I’m leaning 12.5” for sure. Looking at the BRT 12.5” and the Hodge.

2 weeks ago i was slaping full ipsc silhouette steel targets at 400 yards with mk262 and a 6x Credo at TacPro.

[docsherm]

Awesome but I’m looking for the 12.5”

I got on a few notification lists but looks like I may be waiting awhile. If anyone comes across one let me know.

I currently have 3 12.5 SBRs. Have them all set up differently. The best all around barrel i have is the Ballistic Advantage 12.3 Hanson Profile barrel. It is light weight and still ridged enough to hang a can off the end. It is also a solid sub MOA barrel. The fact that it comes with a pinned gas block it an extra bonus.

[Irons]

I hate to throw cold water, actually I don't, so tell me OP and others, exactly what will your huge bucks AR do that my mil spec AR won't do?

[docsherm]

I hate to throw cold water, actually I don't, so tell me OP and others, exactly what will your huge bucks AR do that my mil spec AR won't do?

Depends.... what do you have?

[Former11B]

Here we go lol

[UWone77]

I hate to throw cold water, actually I don't, so tell me OP and others, exactly what will your huge bucks AR do that my mil spec AR won't do?

You don't get called a big poor.

[Aragorn]

I currently have 3 12.5 SBRs. Have them all set up differently. The best all around barrel i have is the Ballistic Advantage 12.3 Hanson Profile barrel. It is light weight and still ridged enough to hang a can off the end. It is also a solid sub MOA barrel. The fact that it comes with a pinned gas block it an extra bonus.

Interesting to hear BA is your best all around. I would have suspected something other than that. What are your other 2? I’m leaning on the Hodge, waiting for one to come in stock somewhere.

[docsherm]

Interesting to hear BA is your best all around. I would have suspected something other than that. What are your other 2? I’m leaning on the Hodge, waiting for one to come in stock somewhere.

I have a Noveske CHF (Carbine Gas), and a Rainier Arms SS Mid Gas (It is a laser, my best is .41 MOA 5 shot group at 100 yards... but they don't make them any more). I have had the Noveske CHF for about 10 years now. I replaced a first run Noveske SS 12.5 that I shot out to a point that it was about 3 MOA (about 15k or so to that point with it and it is a solid MOA gun with about 12k thorough it. I really like the Rainier Arms Mid SS 12.5. It is a great shooter with an A5 Buffer system with a #1 buffer. Super soft with and without a can. I use the AAC Mini4 cans on all of my 12.5 guns.

To be honest, I don't know the fascination with the Hodge barrels. Most are gassed to run only with a can and that is an epic fail in my book. If you want a CHF 12.5 barrel I woul look at the Noveske or the Daniel Defense. I have used both and they are both great barrels. I have also used Centurion Arms 12.5 barrels and like the Hodge, I feel they are gassed for a can. Not enough to properly run properly with total crap ammo without a can on it.

I really like the BA Hanson 12.3 for a few reasons. You do not have to wait like 9 months for them to come in stock. They have a great profile for weight savings but ridged enough for a can. They have a pinned gas block (a must for me). They are a true MOA barrel, or better. If not they will give you a new one. I build one for a good friend and he got 19 of 20 hits on full ipsc silhouette steel targets at 800 yards with hand loaded 77 gr SMK.

[Aragorn]

That gives me more to think about and puts the BRT back on the table to. Intention is to run adjustable gas to optimize for 5.56 and be able to open it up if for whatever reason all I have access to is crap ammo.

[docsherm]

That gives me more to think about and puts the BRT back on the table to. Intention is to run adjustable gas to optimize for 5.56 and be able to open it up if for whatever reason all I have access to is crap ammo.

I HATE adjustable gas blocks. They are like putting a tourniquet on a arterial bleed. It will STOP the main issue but it does not FIX it. If you cannot get your rifle to work by adjusting the buffer and carrier then there is a much larger underlying problem.

And the too much gas in the face is total crap. I was blasting away with a MK18 and a KAC can and I lived.... and I had no issues shooting the weakest ammo without a can on it.

[BoilerUp]

I HATE adjustable gas blocks. They are like putting a tourniquet on a arterial bleed. It will STOP the main issue but it does not FIX it. If you cannot get your rifle to work by adjusting the buffer and carrier then there is a much larger underlying problem.

And the too much gas in the face is total crap. I was blasting away with a MK18 and a KAC can and I lived.... and I had no issues shooting the weakest ammo without a can on it.

I hate excessive reciprocating mass.

May I suggest an alternate way to think about it? The Gas Port (size, location), reciprocating mass (BCG + buffer) and Spring are all elements of a system that needs to be in proper balance for reliable and efficient operation for the ammo and suppressor configuration being used. Overgassed ports sacrifice efficiency for reliability so the easiest way to solve for that is to restrict gas at the port. I'd argue that adding a heavier buffer to compensate for an oversized gas port is more of band-aid solution than an adjustable gas block. If you want reliability over a wide range of scenarios, you have to solve for the lowest gas combination and accept over-gassing everywhere else. Adding reciprocating mass to compensate for a gas port that is improperly sized is much less desirable to me personally than an AGB. And by 'efficient', I mean that over gassed systems are subjecting the weapon to higher temperatures and cyclic rates than needed the produce additional wear on the equipment and unneeded discomfort to the shooter (and potential additional health risks as that crap ain't exactly great to breathe in).

[Former11B]

Adjustable gas blocks allow you to tune the proper amount of gas for your particular setup. Instead of a barrel maker having 1000 different port size options for the various configurations the end user has, it allows the end user to configure the rifle and adjust accordingly

Buffer spring and buffer weight swaps are the bandaids in the situation, not the other way around

[docsherm]

Adjustable gas blocks allow you to tune the proper amount of gas for your particular setup. Instead of a barrel maker having 1000 different port size options for the various configurations the end user has, it allows the end user to configure the rifle and adjust accordingly

Buffer spring and buffer weight swaps are the bandaids in the situation, not the other way around

You have it completely backwards, if you are talking about durability.

It is fine for a hobby grade AR.

[BoilerUp]

You have it completely backwards, if you are talking about durability.

It is fine for a hobby grade AR.

Yes, "tuning" for minimum reciprocating mass at the bleeding edge of reliability is for hobby or competition guns. i was being a bit hyperbolic there. But what I'm trying to say is that you have to balance the system for an intended purpose and there is a point at which excess gas doesn't serve any useful function in even a military grade rifle. There are some barrels out there that are well known to have gas ports that are larger than they need to be even for "durability" so there are perfectly rational reasons to use AGBs in certain situation. I know we're talking about SBRs here where a heavy buffer and FA BCG is the norm for reliability in that system.

[Irons]

Depends.... what do you have?

It is not what I have, it is what it will do and that is my point. My AR cycles just fine, it has not had any sort of jam or misfire in at least 6 months. I use a two point sling. I use iron sights. I use a $140. drop in trigger, M4 dual heat shield hand guards, a Elzetta light mount under bayonet lug with a light.

But when I had trick hanguards, it overheated, I had to keep wiggling my hands around or put shields and gloves on, the expensive attachments for the handguard wiggled lose, the prism sight scope bit me in prone, I got snared in a fancy sling.

I am not trying to piss you off or be a wise ass, but at my more simple level and expectations, a more mil spec rifle seems to be a more reliable rifle. So I practice at doing the simple things as well as possible.

[UWone77]

It is not what I have, it is what it will do and that is my point. My AR cycles just fine, it has not had any sort of jam or misfire in at least 6 months. I use a two point sling. I use iron sights. I use a $140. drop in trigger, M4 dual heat shield hand guards, a Elzetta light mount under bayonet lug with a light.

But when I had trick hanguards, it overheated, I had to keep wiggling my hands around or put shields and gloves on, the expensive attachments for the handguard wiggled lose, the prism sight scope bit me in prone, I got snared in a fancy sling.

I am not trying to piss you off or be a wise ass, but at my more simple level and expectations, a more mil spec rifle seems to be a more reliable rifle. So I practice at doing the simple things as well as possible.

You're actually living in the Golden Age of AR's in my opinion. Hobby grade AR's are better than ever, and the costs have only gone down... especially just prior to the pandemic.

If you're someone that goes to the range once a month a few times a year, you'll likely never have any problems with your AR. If you shoot several thousand rounds a month (I mean lets be honest, most people shoot very little if you average it out per month) you want a higher quality AR. The best analogy I've ever heard is if you bought a shirt from Kohls for $20 and a $100 Nordstrom shirt. Both shirts look the same, fit the same, and you likely won't notice a difference.... until you start washing it. The more often you wash it, the difference will be more apparent, as one will wear out faster than the other.

[docsherm]

It is not what I have, it is what it will do and that is my point. My AR cycles just fine, it has not had any sort of jam or misfire in at least 6 months. I use a two point sling. I use iron sights. I use a $140. drop in trigger, M4 dual heat shield hand guards, a Elzetta light mount under bayonet lug with a light.

But when I had trick hanguards, it overheated, I had to keep wiggling my hands around or put shields and gloves on, the expensive attachments for the handguard wiggled lose, the prism sight scope bit me in prone, I got snared in a fancy sling.

I am not trying to piss you off or be a wise ass, but at my more simple level and expectations, a more mil spec rifle seems to be a more reliable rifle. So I practice at doing the simple things as well as possible.

That is what i thought. I see qhat you are saying and if it does what YOU want it to then it is good for you.

I prefer the maximum performance and versatility in mine. To get that i have to pay more. I understand that.

As an example, can you use yours with Night Vision equipment? That is a must for me, so i have to pay a a alot of $$$$ to get that.



That is all I am saying.

[docsherm]

Yes, "tuning" for minimum reciprocating mass at the bleeding edge of reliability is for hobby or competition guns. i was being a bit hyperbolic there. But what I'm trying to say is that you have to balance the system for an intended purpose and there is a point at which excess gas doesn't serve any useful function in even a military grade rifle. There are some barrels out there that are well known to have gas ports that are larger than they need to be even for "durability" so there are perfectly rational reasons to use AGBs in certain situation. I know we're talking about SBRs here where a heavy buffer and FA BCG is the norm for reliability in that system.

I absolutely agree with what you are saying. There are plenty of barrels out there that are way under and way over gassed. I stay away from them like i do a liberal with a anti gun agenda. ;)

Hince the no need for an AGB commitment. With a good barrel it is not needed.

[BoilerUp]

I absolutely agree with what you are saying. There are plenty of barrels out there that are way under and way over gassed. I stay away from them like i do a liberal with a anti gun agenda. ;)

Hince the no need for an AGB commitment. With a good barrel it is not needed.

Well, when you put it that way I'm probably on the same page. I use AGBs a lot but most rifles probably don't "need" them, but I'd rather dial the gas back a click or two rather than adding heavier buffers or springs because I'm pretty comfortable that I won't be giving up any durability. I don't mind heavy buffers so much, but I really don't like using heavier springs.

[fledge]

Aragorn, talk to Clint at BRT about gas. He will let you know how his 12.5 is ported. He will tell you to make all the adjustments, when going suppresses and unsuppressed, by changing buffers rather than an adj gas block. He will also sell the barrel with the gas block pinned, if you buy from him and make that selection.

The new Hodge barrels have larger ports for running unsuppressed. I have an earlier version in which I have to run a light buffer for unsuppressed use. I am rarely unsuppressed though.

[mustangfreek]

Again

BRT barrel or even their brt reduced size gas port , gas tubes.. which I’m gonna try on one of mine. Nothing but rave reviews about them.

As I’m ocd and I’m beginning to tune all my crap for what I shoot and softest shooter I can make

[Aragorn]

About BRT...

I own one of his original Optimum 16’s and like it a lot. About reaching out to Clint, I emailed him a couple weeks ago about my exact proposed set up.

He never replied.

The increase muzzle velocity and special port location are what draw me to this option though. Really I think it’s between this and a Hodge now that they’re ported a little more open.

As for the buffer, I’m a huge fan of the JP SCS and already have one to use with this rifle, and that combined with flopping back and forth to/from suppressed is why I’m wanting an adjustable GB. Easy enough to open a few clicks if I ever run across weak ammo. All I ever buy is full on 5.56.

[Irons]

That is what i thought. I see qhat you are saying and if it does what YOU want it to then it is good for you.

I prefer the maximum performance and versatility in mine. To get that i have to pay more. I understand that.

As an example, can you use yours with Night Vision equipment? That is a must for me, so i have to pay a a alot of $$$$ to get that.



That is all I am saying.

And I think night vision is a great example. If you are shuffling around in a parking lot at night, NV is wonderful, you never have to look down. But if you are in a deep forest with broken terrain, your magnified night vision is of no value and your unmagnified night vision is, what, good for 50 yards in reality? Night vision may be great for clearing houses but this is not Iraq. Nobody in their right mind would repeat all that. They would just announce that in 60 sec. we are burning down the building. So what is NV's worth? Give me a weapon light able to positively identify opposition at 200 yards. I think the world will soon go to LEP as opposed to LED weapons lights.

[Irons]

The other responses I got were about the durability of shirts and shooting 3K a week. OK then. Where, what component, or what combination of components, is proven more reliable than mil spec? This is exactly my position. Once you achieve mil spec, from that point on, you are financing a vacation to Hawaii for somebody else.

[UWone77]

The other responses I got were about the durability of shirts and shooting 3K a week. OK then. Where, what component, or what combination of components, is proven more reliable than mil spec? This is exactly my position. Once you achieve mil spec, from that point on, you are financing a vacation to Hawaii for somebody else.

Don’t be a condescending dickhead. There are ways to phrase questions without having an attitude about it.

Carry on.

[Stickman]

The other responses I got were about the durability of shirts and shooting 3K a week. OK then. Where, what component, or what combination of components, is proven more reliable than mil spec? This is exactly my position. Once you achieve mil spec, from that point on, you are financing a vacation to Hawaii for somebody else.

Welcome to the board.

If you want to start a thread on why you believe more than mil-spec is a waste of money, feel free to do so.

Otherwise, doing so in someone thread where they are looking for suggestions on a high end barrel is not appropriate.

[Irons]

I will concede that if you are shooting 3K a week, then a CHF barrel would be in order.

[gatordev]

And I think night vision is a great example. If you are shuffling around in a parking lot at night, NV is wonderful, you never have to look down. But if you are in a deep forest with broken terrain, your magnified night vision is of no value and your unmagnified night vision is, what, good for 50 yards in reality?...So what is NV's worth? Give me a weapon light able to positively identify opposition at 200 yards.

I think there is some basic misunderstanding on what NV can offer. There's plenty of value in NV, even in low-light situations such as increased visual acuity (20/40 vs 20/200), reduces the potential for counter-detection (depending on what's on the shootey side of the weapons system), and can allow you to both see and utilize a targeting system that doesn't require looking through multiple devices.

I don't shoot with NV, so I'm sure there's plenty of other examples, but I have used NVGs for my job for the last 20+ years and their value far surpasses their limitations, if it's an environment where such a thing is helpful (which certainly isn't always the case).

[docsherm]

And I think night vision is a great example. If you are shuffling around in a parking lot at night, NV is wonderful, you never have to look down. But if you are in a deep forest with broken terrain, your magnified night vision is of no value and your unmagnified night vision is, what, good for 50 yards in reality? Night vision may be great for clearing houses but this is not Iraq. Nobody in their right mind would repeat all that. They would just announce that in 60 sec. we are burning down the building. So what is NV's worth? Give me a weapon light able to positively identify opposition at 200 yards. I think the world will soon go to LEP as opposed to LED weapons lights.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/deja_q_hd_046_resized_6484.jpg


Have a great life. And please ever respond to me again.

[Aragorn]

On with out regularly scheduled programming...

The 13” forend is in the mail to be exchanged for a 10.5” version to accommodate the shorter barrel. Also heard from the laser engraver yesterday and I should be able to pick up my receivers with their new artwork early next week! Pics to follow once they’re in hand.

[Stone]

Hehehe... Ah, you gotta love the commercials. This thread is about a specific build, with a specific purpose in mind. We work hard for our money and theres nothing wrong with spending some of it on something we really want. Whether its a car, gun, boat, motorcycle, hobby, stocks, investments etc,etc... If we choose to throw our money at something we like to do then well, it is what it is. Mil spec is a base line that was created so the guys that go out and defend our country dont have sh$t blowing up in their faces. Nothing wrong with mil spec, but the technology in the firearms industry has advanced exponentially over the last decade or so and taking advantage of it is not a bad thing. It all comes down to confidence. Confidence in the tool your using, if you are confident with an off the shelf mil spec rifle, thats great. If your not and would like to increase your individual confidence in the reliability and durability of your tool then take advantage of the latest technology. Its not an apples to apples comparison. Its like saying what does your BMW do that my chevy sonic doesnt do? They both get you from A to B dont they? Yes, they do but thats not the whole story... Carry on...

[Stone]

On with out regularly scheduled programming...

The 13” forend is in the mail to be exchanged for a 10.5” version to accommodate the shorter barrel. Also heard from the laser engraver yesterday and I should be able to pick up my receivers with their new artwork early next week! Pics to follow once they’re in hand.

So which receiver set did you go with?

[Aragorn]

Brace Built MC6 Chassis, we talked about it on page one. :P

Though to be fair there were only links and no pictures and I know how y’all are. ;)

Pics coming I promise!

[Stone]

Page one... That was such a long time ago.[BD] I thought you werent happy with the fit and finish on them and was considering an alternative. Ya gotta admit this build is like an on going saga, in a good way... With so many twists and turns its a real nail biter.[pop]

[Aragorn]

There definitely are some tooling lines visible through the cerakote. However, I actually kinda dig the aesthetic along with the slightly charcoal color and think it’ll pair awesome with the engravings and give it a real neo-industrial vibe.

Also, build wise it still gives me exactly what I want. Lightening features, no ambi, and true free float barrel.

[Former11B]

You have it completely backwards, if you are talking about durability.

It is fine for a hobby grade AR.

Putting a heavier buffer alone does nothing to address the issue at hand; it just helps mitigate the negative side effects of said over-gas by reducing dwell time and, especially on a duty weapon that’s fouled up after a high round count firing schedule, having the heavier reciprocating mass ensures ejection and bolt closure. I didn’t say that heavier buffers didn’t have a purpose, I just said they don’t address the issue of gas like an AGB does.

I understand most people (myself included) with duty rifles don’t have the ability to change out the gas block (since it’s an issued weapon versus personally owned) so swapping out the buffer is an easy and allowable/undetectable option.

If it’s a personal rifle and not used “on the job”, fine tuning it with an AGB in no way decreases durability/reliability. Also, I’ve never swapped my buffers for lighter ones to reduce recoil like a lot of people do when running AGBs, in fact I generally use an H1 buffer with a Geissele braided spring but I don’t go heavier than that and haven’t needed to

[Aragorn]

So here’s another question. Is there any real reason to use or consider a visible laser? I’ve never been able to think of one save for possibly training, or bedside usage for people who need corrective lenses.

[alamo5000]

So here’s another question. Is there any real reason to use or consider a visible laser? I’ve never been able to think of one save for possibly training, or bedside usage for people who need corrective lenses.

Fort Tom started a thread about lasers not long ago. Lots of information there.

[Aragorn]

Yeah I followed that. All I really got from it was depends on environmental’s, may be complimentary to other sighting systems. More at home on rifles.

Guess what I’m looking for is if there’s a good reason TO or NOT TO use one.

Main sighting system is going to be a Kahles 1-8x

[BoilerUp]

Yeah I followed that. All I really got from it was depends on environmental’s, may be complimentary to other sighting systems. More at home on rifles.

Guess what I’m looking for is if there’s a good reason TO or NOT TO use one.

Main sighting system is going to be a Kahles 1-8x

That other thread was for pistol, wasn't it? And now we're talking carbine? I don't run lasers at all, except mounted to the heads of sharks in my evil lair, but isn't the main use of laser on carbines for IR and night vision? Otherwise, the only other reasons I'd consider a laser are psychological (no one likes a laser dot illuminating their sternum) or if I thought I'd have to be shooting but couldn't be "behind the gun", which isn't a scenario I actually plan for.

[Joelski]

So here’s another question. Is there any real reason to use or consider a visible laser? I’ve never been able to think of one save for possibly training, or bedside usage for people who need corrective lenses.I use 00 Buck when I don't have my contacts in. [8D]

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[Aragorn]

Well, I settled on and purchased a barrel. 5-7 weeks out supposedly.

Black River Tactical CHF 12.5” with their EXC gas system.

Should be pretty sweet.

[mustangfreek]

Nice

That’s not too bad of a wait.

[Aragorn]

All parts are finally in hand, save for the suppressor. All that’s left now is to send the barrel for cerakote and for the stamp to clear.

Sizing the artwork took a painful amount of attempts, but looks sick!

7767

7768

[MoxyDave]

I like it! Is that a cartoon girl or anime or something? Or just some random broad?

[Aragorn]

You’re not far off actually. It’s based off Angel from the Borderlands series of games. Thought her character was a good match for the neo-industrial look of the receives. That’s also why the upper got a wing.

[MoxyDave]

Ah yes Borderlands! Been a while but I see the resemblance. Nice work.

[apmcdaniel]

Looks fantastic, Aragorn!!! I've done 2 builds with laser work (not nearly as artistic and refined as yours) and I've been really pleased with the outcome. Your build inspires me to get going on some projects I have planned. Good stuff! [emoji41][emoji106]


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[Aragorn]

Thanks guys. Eager to get this build wrapped up. Now if only I could find some Black Hills loaded TMK’s...

[Aragorn]

Ok! She is done! Except for the WML!

This had a few crucial pivoting points during the build out process but the quick rehash of the build parameters was an absolutely no compromise rifle, good from 0 to a minimum of 400y, built with the best synergies from the combat, race, and lightweight realms of AR’s.

Cost (and apparently build time) be damned.

To do this I made and followed a thought tree for part selection.

Function > Ergonomics/Interface > Weight

Function of the given part first and foremost. Of everything available, which can do the job best? What’s toughest and least likely to fail? What additional benefits can be gained?

Following function was ergonomics and interfacing considerations. We’ve all handled weapons that felt great, and we’ve all handled weapons that haven’t. Small differences can make a very tangible difference. I wanted to address this and put together a weapon that felt molded as much as possible for the human to machine interface. As a parallel, I wanted the weapon to have a soft and silky smooth recoil impulse.

Once these conditions were met, or when they were non-applicable or at a performance tie, weight was the deciding factor. Decided by the differences down to the ounce and gram.

Originally this was going to be a full 16” barreled gun, but this was revised to be a 12.5” barreled suppressed SBR.

The parts list:

Tip to Tail

Suppressor:
* Rugged Radiant w/ 5.56 Flash Hider End Cap

Barrel:
* Black River Tactical Cold Hammer Forged 12.5” with EXC gas
* SLR Ti Sentry 7 GB
*Rugged Suppressors Mini Flash Hider Suppressor Mount

Receivers/Forend
* Custom Laser Engraved Modern Carbine Brace Built MC6

Upper Components:
* Forward Controls EPC
* V7 Ultra Light Minimal FA
* V7 Straight Dust Cover Rod
* Radian Raptor CH

BCG:
* LMT E-BCG
* V7 Cam Pin
* JP One Piece Gas Ring

Lower Componets:
* Brace Built Receiver Matched Pivot Pins
* Forward Controls ABC/r v3 Bolt Catch
* V7 Ti Grip Screw
* BAD Mag. Catch
* Forward Controls EMR-H (Mag. Release)
* Forward Controls Mag. Catch Spring
* Umbrella Grip 23
* V7 2055 Aluminum Lithium Carbine Buffer Tube
* V7 Lightweight Castle Nut / End Plate

Trigger
* JP Roller Module & Safety

Buffer System:
* JP SCS

Stock:
* Magpul SL w/ Limbsaver Recoil Pad

Optics:
* Kahles K18i -1x8
* Scalarworks Leap 30mm Mount
*Holosun 508T Red Dot
*Arisaka Offset Mount

Scant parts used in the build fell outside the parts selection thought tree parameters.

Those that did were the Radian Raptor Charging Handle, the FC ABC/r, the takedown pins, the end plate, and the buffer retaining pin.

I used the Radian vs. something like a V7 because I wanted ambi in this one area. Could have gone with a Raptor LT… but I like the skeletonized look of the metal handles on the standard version.

I used the Forward Controls ABC/r v3 instead of a lighter V7 unit, but I have other Forward Controls ABC’r’s and I’ve come to prefer their paddle size and angles.

The receivers came with steel take down pins machined to match the lowers aesthetics. I like them, they look cool. I used them instead of lighter aluminum options.

I could have used a Smoke Composites carbon fiber end plate, but it lacked the refinement and QD capability of the V7.

Also a Buffer Retaining Pin was installed against my directions when assembled by D. Wilson MFG. This is unnecessary and actually rather a PITA when used with the JP SCS.

All in all however these parts vs. the lighter ones I COULD have used cost me…. about a .3- .5 oz. weight penalty in total. Yeah I’m good to let that slide…

The barrel, BCG, interior of the upper, and charging handle are all cerakoted in MAD Black. This is a tougher, slicker version of cerakote with a coefficient of friction comparable to Teflon. This was done to reduce friction and smooth cycling during fire, except for the barrel which was just done for corrosion resistance. This was done by MAD Custom Coatings. Unfortunately they inadvertently screwed the pooch when they blasted the outside of the upper receiver and jacked up the artworks two tone contrast. In the end I had to send them the lower for color match as well as the files to re-engrave the graphic on the upper. The Cerakote color match came out dead perfect, however the laser engraving was ever so misaligned with the original and actually gave the wing on the upper more of a… feathered appearance. They also waived all my costs. I’m chalking that up to “Task failed successfully.” Only gripe is that the background of the uppers engraving is not quite as dark as on the lowers.

As for the artwork… I’ve always been a huge fan of WW2 era pin-up art and the nose art common on aircraft at the time. I’m also a fan of sci-fi, cyber punk, and fantasy. Given the receivers slightly neo-industrial vibe I wanted something that matched and tied in with my interests. What came out was a pin-up portrait loosely based on the character Angel from the Borderlands series of video games. Geeky? Maybe, but damn it looks good. Achieving it was also no easy task. We (myself, my laser engraver, and my artist) even went so far as having to get the blueprint for the magwell window for proper fitting of the imaged directly from Brace Built. However during the mock up, machining variances from manufacturing crept up and prevented the image from fitting perfectly. In the end a clay mold of the window had to be created and a vector file drawn from it to make a perfect match. Freaking, worth it.

One of, or perhaps THE primary driver of the build was to mesh “duty” or “combat” grade reliability with race gun smoothness and shooting mannerisms. Then the trick became to do all that while being suppressed. The barrel is cold hammer forged. Hard to get much tougher than that. It is also EXC length, which is in between carbine and mid-length. Smoother than carbine and more reliable than a middy on a short barrel. LMT E-BCG was selected as the bolt is legendary for its toughness and the lengthened cam track in the carrier delays unlocking and further smooths things out. Also curiously I’ve observed that the E-BCG requires less gas to drive than typical full mass BCG’s. Later I found a write up explaining why that was, but I didn’t retain the info clearly enough to regurgitate it here. However, it cycles on the same reduced gas setting as my lightweight Ti BCG in another gun, and this is good for wanting to decaffeinate a rifle. Also helping with this is the JP SCS. That change alone would help tame things and it’s become standard in my builds because of it. All of this plus the friction reducing MAD Black. The Radiant suppressor also creates relatively low back pressure which fits the theme of the build. The gas block is adjustable and will be tuned for reliability without overgassing. To do this I set it to lock the bolt back while unsupported, with weak ammo, and pressure against the base of the mag. Once set there I know it will function reliably with full power 5.56, which is otherwise all I buy. Recoil is then dampened even further by a Limbsaver recoil pad. Overkill? Yeah probably. Also contributing to the race gun aspects… the JP trigger. I can hit 1/10th second splits on a shot timer with good A-zone hits at close to close-ish targets with it on a good day. Anecdotally, that’s the cyclic rate on a full auto AK. Never been able to do that with a Geissele or a LaRue.

As for the suppressor, I actually got it to pull double duty with a .300 I have, but it has taken up semi-permanent residence here. That said, I’m not sure I’d have picked something else even if I would have been shopping for only this host. It’s short and light in the K configuration at 5.1” and 9.4oz. , plus just a little for the 5.56 flash hiding end cap, and has a reputation for being fairly low back pressure (as previously mentioned) and having a deeper tone. It also has an unconditional lifetime warranty and is full auto rated with no barrel length restrictions up to .300 RUM. My 12.5” barrel with 5.56 and me even on my fastest of days won’t be able to hurt this.

Other things… the barrel fit very loosely into the upper when I did the initial mock up. Due to this I sent the rifle to D. Wilson MFG to shim and bed the barrel, face the receiver while he was at it, and perform assembly. This is my first AR with a bedded barrel, and I’m hoping it, being paired with a truly free float barrel (the barrel nut doesn’t contact the forend), will lead to some impressive accuracy with good ammo. Intended diet for range and work is 75gr Hornady Frontier, 77gr IMI Razorcore, and when it’s available again, Black Hills 5.56 77gr TMK’s. Those rounds should put this squarely in the 400y range, with TMK’s pushing it to hopefully 500y for your preferred SHTF scenario. For close range practice it’s generally 55gr stuff like Independence or MEN or whatever reasonable flavor of XM193.

More other things… I used a BAD mag catch which worked to recess the mag release button below the protective fence. I’ve got a cousin who is a former Marine and apparently accidental mag drops from guns bumping into equipment on marches, or slamming into doorways during clearing exercises was a thing. The BAD Mag catch along with the Forward Controls increased rate spring helps alleviate this from being a concern.

Also near that area was another unexpected nuisance. The trigger guard is very narrow, heavily skeletonized, and generously chamfered. I went ahead and measured after it started becoming bothersome during dry fire and one handed manipulations. Due to being skeletonized the guard is effectively two bars resting on your middle finger. Measured across the bottom of the flats each “bar” is only 1/16” wide between the chamfers, which then radius them away from your finger. However my wife is a clever and crafty genius who is good at everything, and fashioned me what we are calling a finger saddle as a solution. She made a leather sleeve, filled the hollow of the guard with a springy cushion stuffing, made a stiff insert for the upper portion to make sure the padding effect pushed down instead of up, stretch fit and tighten the leather over the guard and sewed it in place. It doesn’t budge and is hard to overstate how much it actually enhances the feel of the weapon. It looks so minor, but the effect it has on such a poorly designed trigger guard really is pretty radical. Plus the blue stitching looks sweet.

Lastly, the optics. I run two primary optics. A Kahles 1-8x in a Scalarworks mount and a Holosun 508T in and Arisaka 45* offset. I wanted a durable and reliable 1-8x with a true 1x. Ended up between the Kahles and the Nightforce options. Ended up choosing the Kahles for the reticle and FOV. The Holosun was chosen over an RMR because, at least to my eye, it has superior dot clarity. It was chosen over everything else as it’s the only dot that has shown itself to be as rugged as the RMR in torture and drop tests. Another neat thing about it is that mounted to the rear of the receiver and with the circle dot reticle selected, it feels very EOtech-esque. Pretty neat for an offset. I’ll have to get some more time behind it, but it’s a pretty positive initial impression. I run the set up as a 1-2 punch, leaving the Kahles on 3x so I can roll from the dot into 3x for a longer shot, and I have positioned the lever on the magnification ring where if I need more than 3x I can just grab it and pull it down.

So here she is. My Paragon. My End-of-the-World Race Mini-Recce.

(Apologies for the long write up and only being able to deliver iPhone pics)

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[Aragorn]

Moar pics!

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[Aragorn]

MOAR PICS!

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[Joelski]

Sweet looking stick!

I wonder how the MAD Black stacks up against Kal-Guard GUN KOTE? We did the crank, cases, connecting rod and even the piston skirt on my race bikes back in the day and it helped the bike run cooler. Great stuff shooting the inside; that's an often neglected, or overlooked area.

[BoilerUp]

Wow, looks great!

[Stone]

Thanks guys. Eager to get this build wrapped up. Now if only I could find some Black Hills loaded TMK’s...

Still looking for that ammo? https://oldvirginia.net/product/black-hills-red-box-5-56-77-gr-tmk-ammo/

Give him a call, good dude and he has been dealing with black hills directly for a long time. Even if its OOS on his site still call!! That is one good looking rifle BTW!

[mustangfreek]

Nice looking parts list!

Certainaly didn’t hold back. Couple questions

How’s the trigger?

And what does this mofo weigh loaded and ready to go? I weighed a few rifles tonite and was surprised how much they weighed

[Aragorn]

Thanks guys! Yeah she came out pretty great. Nearly a year and a half project from start to finish due to waiting on customizations and optics and the barrel… not to mention the NFA stuff. Doing a no compromise build has been a goal of mine for over a decade.


I wonder how the MAD Black stacks up against Kal-Guard GUN KOTE? We did the crank, cases, connecting rod and even the piston skirt on my race bikes back in the day and it helped the bike run cooler. Great stuff shooting the inside; that's an often neglected, or overlooked area.

I’ve never heard Kal-Guard. I wouldn’t think it would be radically different. It sure looks cool though. The barrel looks like polished wet ink that never dried and is crazy slick to the touch. Hand cycling the action things feel nice and smooth, similar to racking a higher end new 1911. Gives me high hopes on how it’ll feel once it starts to break in.


Still looking for that ammo? https://oldvirginia.net/product/black-hills-red-box-5-56-77-gr-tmk-ammo/

Give him a call, good dude and he has been dealing with black hills directly for a long time. Even if its OOS on his site still call!! That is one good looking rifle BTW!

“Very long wait time with no ETA from factory.” Is what the site says. I’ll go ahead and give him a call anyways. TMK’s are back burner right now (August has two birthdays, an anniversary, and then doing our first ever actual family vacation in Spetember, so funds are heavily reallocated right now). But thanks for the pointer. I’ll definitely be hitting up that resource.


Nice looking parts list!

Certainaly didn’t hold back. Couple questions

How’s the trigger?

And what does this mofo weigh loaded and ready to go? I weighed a few rifles tonite and was surprised how much they weighed

The trigger is my favorite trigger by a pretty substantial margin. I’ve got a couple LaRue’s, a Geissele SDE, and have owned the SSA, SSA-E, and SD3G. I’ve shot a Timney but can’t remember which one, also POF, CMT, Triggertech… several others but at this point can’t remember which. Briefly had an Elftmann but had issues right off the bat end never did end up getting it to the range because it was such a pile of shit. The JP absolutely smokes them all. To be fair I haven’t tried the SSP or the single stage LaRue, but I have a hard time imagining them being different than their other offerings. The JP is just SO FAST, with SUCH short reset. Absolutely no pretravel or creep on either of the two I have. Only the LaRue breaks as crisply, and the JP’s have no perceptible over travel on either of my units. And somehow it gets better as you break it in. The speed you can get with it is just insane.

As for the weight… I honestly have no idea. I don’t have a scale. I’d like to think she’s light for a suppressed multi-optic mini-Recce given my parts selection, but truthfully just don’t know what it weighs.

[Stone]

Definitely want to hear about that Kahles K18i -1x8 when you get some range time in...

[Uffdaphil]

Wow! Great execution of a well thought out build. That Mad Black Plus has me hopped up. Just the ticket for a VP9 long slide I have that shows some wear.

[Aragorn]

Wow! Great execution of a well thought out build. That Mad Black Plus has me hopped up. Just the ticket for a VP9 long slide I have that shows some wear.

Thanks! And yeah that should look sweet on a VP9, especially a long slide.

[mustangfreek]

So have you shot it much yet,With or without the can?

What’s your impression on the barrel?

[Aragorn]

I’ve shot it but nothing at range for precision. That said I pulled a few clover leaves at 100 with MEN 55gr. Shoots soft like my light profile from them as well, but both are running adjustable gas so, take that for what it’s worth.

Zero gas to face at all with the combo, but I did have to ditch the SCS as it wasn’t reliable with the can and LMT E-BCG. I’ve since put in a kynshot but haven’t got to run it since.

But seriously ZERO gas to face. Left me wondering what people were bitching about. Until I shot my .300 with the can and a crappy Fortis charging handle. Then I found out.

[alamo5000]

I’ve shot it but nothing at range for precision. That said I pulled a few clover leaves at 100 with MEN 55gr. Shoots soft like my light profile from them as well, but both are running adjustable gas so, take that for what it’s worth.

Zero gas to face at all with the combo, but I did have to ditch the SCS as it wasn’t reliable with the can and LMT E-BCG. I’ve since put in a kynshot but haven’t got to run it since.

But seriously ZERO gas to face. Left me wondering what people were bitching about. Until I shot my .300 with the can and a crappy Fortis charging handle. Then I found out.

Just my .02 cents but gas to the face needs to have certain situations to show up (at least with what I run). Others probably have different experience.

Ammo is obviously a huge component of the mix. The second thing is rate of fire. The third is the external environment. If you are indoors or on a really still day it can definitely make it show up.

I've shot other people's cans a few times before and they had really old school suppressors. Those were way more prone to gas than mine. It made me appreciate what I have.

Btw what can did you get?

[Aragorn]

The .300 was running Barnes Vor-Tx ammo with a full configuration Rugged Radiant, full mass BCG, Griffin SOB, and Law Tactical folding adapter so and addition 2 oz. of buffering mass with the plug, and a Tubb lightweight flatwire. Issue wasn’t the set up or the can. Or that it was still air where I was shooting (Bc I had just shot the 5.56 with said MEN ammo and the can in K configuration with no gas to the face), the issue is the Fortis charging handle on the .300, which is pretty open throughout the latching mechanism and gives the gas a straight shot to your face. Pretty confident a raptor will fix things up, but that’s on hold until after the holidays.

[mustangfreek]

A big part also, Is it depends on the back pressure nature of the can. My 762 can is like nothing on 556, but put a 556 can on The same gun and I can tell instantly

Good to hear about the barrel, contemplating pre ordering a 12.5

[Aragorn]

Good to hear about the barrel, contemplating pre ordering a 12.5

All indicators point to it being a solid barrel and I also really like my 16. If I were shopping again it would probably be the first place I looked.