What are your thoughts on the new 6ARC

[alamo5000]

Normally I am pretty skeptical of many 'new' untested things in the firearms world. For example right off the bat I was pretty suspicious so to speak of the 224 Valkyrie. In 99% of the cases that caliber works, but it didn't take all that long to expose some of the weakness in that design. With this new 6ARC though I don't really have those same kind of questions. The reason being is that it looks like they took a ton of long time tested components and married them together into something new.

The 6mm bullet selection for example is routinely shot out to well over 1,000++ yards in all sorts of competitions. Unlike that 90grain SMK that was supposed to be paired with the Valkyrie they have no such bugs with twist rates or whatever in the 6mm world. It's all pretty much standard stuff, just married in a different way.

To have a legit 1,000 yard gun in a standard AR size platform, like the Valkyrie, is very interesting. Obviously I haven't shot the 6ARC but my first impressions are basically 'where do I sign up?'. My only real question about the whole thing now is pretty much all around magazines and (for me) brass. What is the price and availability, and selection looking like?

From the page linked below the magazines will be 24 or 17 round, out of what I assume would be the same footprint size as a standard 30 round or 20 round AR mag.

They definitely have my attention for sure.

"U.S. Military Adopts Hornady's New Cartridge: 6mm ARC"

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/hornady-6mm-arc/376852

[mustangfreek]

Meh

It doesn’t do much more than a grendel looking at the stats for me. Which is why I’ll take a guess and say it’s not gonna be a big to do

Ammo- grendel has a lot of options and one of the biggest following by the ammo forts right now. Something like 200+ factory loads now.

If they price the ammo (only heard of one company so far making ammo) more then the grendel. It won’t work. Price it at same price of cheaper , it will get attention.

Grendel has cheap wolf ammo for blasting and decent for steel out at distance. That’s 30 cpr vs a buck or more..unless you reload

[BoilerUp]

There has been a lot of interest lately, it seems, in 6mm in both AR and large frame platforms and I think they've largely been the realm of wildcatters. This gives a factory option. I think the people most interested in 6ARC are likely to load their own ammo. To me, looks like it could be a fun/attractive long-ish range paper puncher out of the AR platform.

[alamo5000]

I found a little snippet comparing 6.5 Grendel to 6 ARC. I will have to do my own research and see what kind of ballistic differences there are. As they say in the video though, with 6.5 bullets your main bullet selection kind of max out around the mid 120 grain range whereas the ARC is designed from the ground up for all 6mm bullets without really encountering magazine length restrictions.

It might be just academic but that's my specialty. LOL

Also if you just want to shoot (and reload) I did a quick search on Ammoseek and 6mm bullets start out about right at 1/2 the cost of a 6.5 bullet. Premium 6mm projectiles are still cheaper per bullet (with better BC etc) than standard 120ish grain 6.5mm bullets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os3x5Rg-BJw

[alamo5000]

I just did some rough math and for me to reload 6.5 Grendel with just plain bulk box bullets and so forth would be well over .30 cents a round if you roll your own.

For cheaper, I could load match grade 105 grain match grade ammo with Hornady bullets in 6mm. For equivalent plinking ammo it would go down in price per round by about half.

[alamo5000]

This video goes into more detail. I'm impressed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Dl0gwNxCY

[mustangfreek]

Lol

Just a quick google leads to 6mm “match” bullets for roughly the same as 6.5 stuff..if you know where to look..
Brass..gonna need a bunch , either at factory ammo at a buck a round or brass pieces at .65 cents a pop. Plus primer plus powder..

You aren’t doing a 6mm wildcat any less then a 6.5 ..

If your looking for a new caliber/build then sure I see it.. there will be a fad but how long? Look at the Valkyrie , it was the shizznit..till the next wildcat round came out

You can push a 90gr-107 gr load in a grendel at about the same..so

[UWone77]

IMHO 6.5 Grendel never got mainstream, so this will go the way of .224, .350 and anything else since 300 BO.

If you want to shoot straight and far, just do 6.5 Creedmoor. Laser beams all day long. Everyone these days have multiple AR's just build another large frame!

[alamo5000]

IMHO 6.5 Grendel never got mainstream, so this will go the way of .224, .350 and anything else since 300 BO.

If you want to shoot straight and far, just do 6.5 Creedmoor. Laser beams all day long. Everyone these days have multiple AR's just build another large frame!

That's definitely a valid couple of points for a variety of reasons. Realistically who has access to an 1100 yard range? That said the .224 in my view was in large part a failure because it couldn't deliver what was advertised. You had one projectile that the fluff was based on to call it "a 1,000 yard rifle". While I am sure lots of people took theirs to 1000 yards, enough were not able to get there. Basically it didn't live up to the hype. Same story but different with the 22 Nosler or others. It really didn't solve anything.

With the 6mm bullet selection though it's proven for like 60 years or more of testing. My googlefu says 1955 until now it's been in continuous use. Any given weekend people are shooting 6mm out past a grand in some kind of competition or another. They don't really have to figure out what twist rate is needed to stabilize a 90 grain 224 bullet...so the marriage of components for this cartridge in my eyes makes a lot more sense. I am a lot more confident that it will live up to the hype at least performance wise. 1000 yard gun? YUP. I am way more confident in this than I was initially in the 224 because I am fairly confident that this will out do everything the .224 was originally billed as and more. Basically by using proven components they will be able to deliver the goods to those who are after it where others did not.

If you look at the competition precision rifle shooting market 6mm rules. According to this article 7 out of 8 pro shooters use 6mm.

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/14/rifle-caliber/

For me, I would consider this cartridge as an intermediate caliber. That said I can shoot it and get into it for relatively cheap compared to buying an all new custom rifle or whatever. Don't get me wrong... I am nowhere near at saturation point for gun ownership. If I make a few million anytime soon I can promise I will scratch several itches. Overall though for the ability to bang out to 1,000 yards in a standard AR frame is a great idea that has been pursued (unsuccessfully) by several companies. I personally could load up 100 rounds in a rifle like this and have a ball all afternoon.

Don't get me wrong (again)... a good 6.5 CM that I can take to a mile is on my very short list. I could buy or build one now but I am not willing to over extend myself (for now) for what is ultimately a hobby. Hell if I could afford $10 bucks a round and I had access to somewhere to shoot several thousand meters out I would be all over a 375 Enablr. Chasing insane distances is never ending.

The appeal to me for this is what initially had me looking at the .224...(that I never bought into). This is something I could shoot relatively cheap and scratch that itch without having to sell a kidney.

And that's not saying the Grendel is bad... but to me this has way more appeal for how I would use it.

[alamo5000]

Also I might add, look at Lantac's post here... those ballistics charts they posted show performance equal to or better than a 308 out of a much smaller package.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?11839-Lantac-6mmARC-Dedicated-BCG-and-Rifles

[UWone77]

I think your second sentence really sums it up. All these 1000 yard cartridges... but who shoots at 1000 yards consistently or even has access to a range like that? That's a small subset of a small group. I think that's what really holds up these long range platforms.

[alamo5000]

I think your second sentence really sums it up. All these 1000 yard cartridges... but who shoots at 1000 yards consistently or even has access to a range like that? That's a small subset of a small group. I think that's what really holds up these long range platforms.

Yup. But among those who do...it's just a barrel of monkey's worth of fun to do. To have something like this will (in that kind of circle) make a big splash I think.

Among average shooters in the consumer world who don't normally shoot that far, they don't really get how impractical shooting something at 1000 yards really is. It's a thing unto itself. Until you actually stare down a 1000 plus yard lane it doesn't make sense about how that's not applicable at all to self defense or home protection or whatever.

The people that get it though, this has a lot of potential (lots more than 224 valkyrie) to please the masses in that crowd. Niche gun, maybe... or probably... but I still think this is finally one that can deliver the goods to those looking for a particular set of skills/needs.

[alamo5000]

Ballistic charts stolen from Lantac's thread. Cross posted for easy access. This performance out of a standard AR ain't half bad.

7396

[alamo5000]

I think your second sentence really sums it up. All these 1000 yard cartridges... but who shoots at 1000 yards consistently or even has access to a range like that? That's a small subset of a small group. I think that's what really holds up these long range platforms.

The other thing worth mentioning is that this has already apparently been adopted by some specific (unnamed) branch of the military. Military applications are a lot.

My perspective however is just on how impractical (but fun) it is to shoot out to 1000 yards.

[mustangfreek]

Grendel is still coming out with new rounds and guns at a pace better then the others. Just look around..not just IG...lol

The large frame AR’s are just that...large..10-12 lbs on the norm with many heavier..that’s a bench gun...all fine and good.. but many don’t want that, and this new 6mm arc is nothing new. Per say.
Guys have been necking down grendel cases and such to 6mm for a while.

It’s all good..I ha d no true love in the grendel..it’s a good round for it’s intent.

6mm arc will have the same..

I only wish WA state has more ranges with longer distances.

[mustangfreek]

As the 6mm turbo , 6mm ar , 6mm optimum., and more have already been done.

It’s a Niche wildcat found for the reloaded/hunter..

Also I hate it as they advertise it as a AR cartridge. Well most guys don’t use a 24” barrel.. StRt off with some 16/18” numbers...lol...

[BoilerUp]

Grendel is still coming out with new rounds and guns at a pace better then the others. Just look around..not just IG...lol

The large frame AR’s are just that...large..10-12 lbs on the norm with many heavier..that’s a bench gun...all fine and good.. but many don’t want that, and this new 6mm arc is nothing new. Per say.
Guys have been necking down grendel cases and such to 6mm for a while.

It’s all good..I ha d no true love in the grendel..it’s a good round for it’s intent.

6mm arc will have the same..

I only wish WA state has more ranges with longer distances.


I think all the small frame 6mm options are wildcats, so IMO Hornady is smartly capitalizing on the popularity of 6mm in the long distance paper punching circles and giving folks a factory / SAAMI option. From an initial look at the ballistics, I think this will develop a strong following in a certain segment.

I suspect the Grendel crowd is largely comprised of two groups: paper punchers who run really long barrels to squeze the performance out of the round, and hunters who stick to 16-18" barrels for field practicality. I see the 6 ARC as likely to catch the attention of the former but probably won't catch a lot of interest from the latter as a practical hunting distances the differences probably won't matter. Varmint hunters may be an exception.

I'm curious to see how it goes primarily as a reflection on Hornady's ability to bring a new round to market. Remington screwed up the 6.8 SPC to the point that its mishandling put a pretty severe handicap on adoption of an excellent round and Federal messed up with the Valk as a result of the barrel twist limitations. Nosler has done pretty well with their niche and Hornady knocked it out of the park with the Creedmoor. Hornady really has the best recent track record here so it seems they know what they are doing which by itself makes me pay attention the release of this cartridge.

[gatordev]

The other thing worth mentioning is that this has already apparently been adopted by some specific (unnamed) branch of the military. Military applications are a lot.



That's what the headline said, but that's not what the article said. This seems to be the trend in gun rags to get clicks/eyeballs. What the article said is "...a DoD entitiy..." That doesn't mean "the military" or even a "branch of the military." That means someone contracted the purchase of this round/weapon system at some lot size. It could be a small lot size compared to DoD as a whole, and thus not help with public availability.

The fact that the entity isn't named seems to indicate that it's some much smaller unit than something purchased for a major military entity (like Crane or the Army's main procurement source).

[alamo5000]

That's what the headline said, but that's not what the article said. This seems to be the trend in gun rags to get clicks/eyeballs. What the article said is "...a DoD entitiy..." That doesn't mean "the military" or even a "branch of the military." That means someone contracted the purchase of this round/weapon system at some lot size. It could be a small lot size compared to DoD as a whole, and thus not help with public availability.

The fact that the entity isn't named seems to indicate that it's some much smaller unit than something purchased for a major military entity (like Crane or the Army's main procurement source).

My experience with the military is limited to asking family and friends or consulting Wikipedia so I have zero doubt you are probably correct. LOL

All that said, to have a solid intermediate cartridge like this is extremely appealing for my use and most likely the weekend precision competition market. How it could potentially help a military unit is out of my lane but it seems like a good step to help fix what others have been complaining about regarding. 223.

Basically having 308 ballistics out of a small frame AR works for me.

I am still going to follow this for a while to get true field results but as for now it seems to solve a "problem" for me. Namely I can get into this for so much cheaper overall than going to a large frame from scratch.

[Joelski]

I want to see the 8.6 Creedmoor hit paper, and get some real shooter's take on whether it'll put the hot one in the BG's hat from a fer piece, and run like a 300 blackout.

[alamo5000]

I have been doing a bit of reading and here is some more info/background that I found.

Originally the 6.5 Grendel was invented and released back in 2004 by Alexander Arms. From it's inception until late 2011, a full seven years, it was a non SAAMI cartridge that fell under Alexander Arms proprietary design restrictions. This means if people wanted to make something for a 6.5 Grendel, they had to work with Alexander Arms. Also consumers were stuck with one choice for the most part (at that time).

Seven years is a long time to spend as a proprietary round with only one company acting as the boss over the entire caliber.

On the other hand, from DAY ONE, the 6 ARC came out of the gate as an already SAAMI spec'ed round that other manufacturers can pick up on and use for design etc. In this regard it's sort of like MLOK. It was designed by magpul of course, but in a way it's semi sort of open source. In order to obtain SAAMI specs they have to give up trademarks so it can be a 'standardized' cartridge.

Basically from a business standpoint these two could not have been treated any differently. They were business wise polar opposites. Alexander Arms for good or bad, by trying to control the show stunted that cartridge's growth.

[mustangfreek]

Lol

If you know grendel you know the story..somewhat..

You should build one of these and post some real numbers (for 16” barrels ) . Even though like the others, loaded longer in a rifle will do better..Hence there numbers..24” barrel...lolz

Plenty of people use the grendel in pistol platform for hunting boiler, as you know some states are dumb about there laws/rules. It does really well still out of a 12” barrel.

[usbp379]

First shots through his rifle:

https://youtu.be/Qg0XG8-Nzsk

And the full-length version:

https://youtu.be/-OdhAC2Zlbk



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[Former11B]

I’m going to be shooting in a tactical division precision rifle series this coming year with my new build. If all goes well I’ll consider pulling a barrel from one of my current ARs and building a 6ARC for the following year

[usbp379]

A bit on the cartridge and the Barrett REC7 rifle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNbaXLJyRjg

[alamo5000]

I’m going to be shooting in a tactical division precision rifle series this coming year with my new build. If all goes well I’ll consider pulling a barrel from one of my current ARs and building a 6ARC for the following year

I'm not shooting any competitions yet, but I am already making plans to get this. I am letting the initial wave die down (plus I have other priorities at the moment) but I can see this replacing my 'precision' 223 upper. My 223/556 upper is very accurate, but the 6ARC will put it on steroids for it's intended purpose.

[mustangfreek]

Why? Unless your actually gonna use as intended..It won’t hardly do any difference inside 500 yards or so shooting against a good 223 load

[usbp379]

Why? Unless your actually gonna use as intended..It won’t hardly do any difference inside 500 yards or so shooting against a good 223 loadIt is somewhat specialized but may actually work well for deer and similar game. Something like a Barnes 85gr TTSX will probably be a good choice in this cartridge.


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[alamo5000]

Some velocity data from SBR configurations.

7431

[mustangfreek]

Still not impressed...lol...12.5” Grendel with 107 averages about 2450-2550

[usbp379]

@alamo5000 did you get an upper together? Anyone else experimenting with this cartridge?

I recently bought a 16" Faxon bolt and barrel for an old S&W I don't use much. Seems like a good use of a rifle that's otherwise taking up space. That's about as far as I've gotten so far.

Ammo is available as are dies. Bullets are not terribly hard to find. Powder and primers are non-existent as is 6 ARC brass. The easy answer is to buy factory ammo and make brass that way. Size and trim Grendel is another fairly easy option. It should also be possible to form brass from 220 Russian or 7.62x39.

I suppose in friendlier times we'd have brass and ammo from several companies. Hopefully someone like Federal is working on the ARC. It would be nice to have a budget load from PPU or S&B.



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[usbp379]

Some velocity data from Hornady:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210619/8d75f1916f5b72f1564989ec28f5f70f.jpg

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[alamo5000]

@alamo5000 did you get an upper together?

Yes. My upper is put together and I have a total of 40 rounds through it. I have been having optics issues so I haven't shot it a ton yet.

My build specs for the upper are:

24" McGowan Custom barrel with 1:7 twist rate and a rifle gas length
CMT slick side upper and 15" rail
SLR adjustable block
Rubber City bolt and carrier
Griffin muzzle device and a Explorr 30 suppressor

I built this gun to scratch the 1K yard itch which it is more than capable of doing. I will probably take it much farther once I get the optics thing worked out.

If this thing turns out to be a shooter I will build out a lower for it. For now I am using one of my other lowers until I can prove it will shoot and that I really like it.

I bought 120 factory rounds to basically cull the brass. I haven't shot but 40 rounds of that. I have 16 pounds of CFE 223 on hand and a bunch of primers still.

I finished my upper a couple of weeks ago when my barrel got done so not much chance to get a feel for it yet considering my optic issues.

[mustangfreek]

Some velocity data from Hornady:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210619/8d75f1916f5b72f1564989ec28f5f70f.jpg

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Wow.Those numbers are not that impressive..

What am I missing?
My grendel shoots Harder then that.. Which I’ve been looking at the 224 grendel if I wanted a small laser beam of a rd..

I get it though..get bored and the newest thing pops up and gotta have..only to be.....

[usbp379]

What am I missing?
My grendel shoots Harder then that...

It isn't all about muzzle velocity.



https://youtu.be/os3x5Rg-BJw



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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/1CrwuCyjGbE

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[alamo5000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slqI49xnxbE

[alamo5000]

At the end of the day the 6 ARC has a whole lot more versatility. You can shoot a much larger array of bullets and be effective with them.

In the ARC you can go from 50 something all the way up to 115 including the highest BC bullets available in 6mm. This same thing is not true with the Grendel. Once you get to like 120ish grain bullets you are maxed out. Those bigger longer, higher BC bullets in 6.5 can't be pushed fast enough or far enough for them to be effective.

With 6.5 mid 120's and down is what you get. With the 6ARC I can run all the way up to 115gr DTAC which I think are the heaviest 6mm available.

When you get into ballistics and all that stuff is where the ARC shines. If you are shooting bambi at 200 yards either of them however will be extremely effective. I built mine (6ARC) with the sole purpose of having a longer range target rifle.

[Former11B]

I assembled a 24” Bartlein in 6ARC with a Seekins upper/lower for a friend recently

He’s all over the 2” poppers at 500yds using 108gr. I want to say it’s in the high 2600fps range.

[mustangfreek]

Lol..I knew the defense would come out..No need to sell me on anything.. I Do My own research in this area and don’t need to ask 87 questions...

OK..I’ll play since it’s hot and the ginger is burning up.. :)


It isn't all about muzzle velocity.


https://youtu.be/os3x5Rg-BJw

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I’ve seen that and lots of videos comparing the grendel..

It still doesn’t impress me, remember the hype on the Valkyrie..lol..ya.. 224 grendel kills it in every way..

90’s at 3000+
75’s at 3300-3400
55’s at 3550+

You really want to shine, why not build one of the record holding PRC’s?


At the end of the day the 6 ARC has a whole lot more versatility. You can shoot a much larger array of bullets and be effective with them.

Wrong..and your opinion..What versatility? Higher ammo costs and availability ?

In the ARC you can go from 50 something all the way up to 115 including the highest BC bullets available in 6mm. This same thing is not true with the Grendel. Once you get to like 120ish grain bullets you are maxed out. Those bigger longer, higher BC bullets in 6.5 can't be pushed fast enough or far enough for them to be effective.

Again wrong, you are not maxed out at 120 with the 6.5 grendel...lol..shows what you know..there is much heavier bullets and a small selection of subsonic stuff is trickling out now

With 6.5 mid 120's and down is what you get. With the 6ARC I can run all the way up to 115gr DTAC which I think are the heaviest 6mm available.

Again..phuck ing wrong

When you get into ballistics and all that stuff is where the ARC shines. If you are shooting bambi at 200 yards either of them however will be extremely effective. I built mine (6ARC) with the sole purpose of having a longer range target rifle.

Again , why not build a better, proven round if you truly want long range.. shit, you can lob .556/77’s out to a grand... grendel even farther, and I’m not raving, but I picked up a barrel cheap and so far it’s been the best shooter of the bunch and see no reason to switch out the barrel for what I see..


I assembled a 24” Bartlein in 6ARC with a Seekins upper/lower for a friend recently

He’s all over the 2” poppers at 500yds using 108gr. I want to say it’s in the high 2600fps range.

That’s not bad, but still, if just shooting steel, 556/grendel already gets you their..

To each their own. I work with what I got and shoot it, change shit as I see fit.. Better then 90% of keyboard commandos just running their mouth and not shooting.

But how is the 6mm arc build doing Alamo? What’s ammo costing ya..any more threads on it?? Lol [:D]

[usbp379]

Lol..I knew the defense would come out..No need to sell me on anything.. I Do My own research in this area and don’t need to ask 87 questions...

OK..I’ll play since it’s hot and the ginger is burning up.. :)



I’ve seen that and lots of videos comparing the grendel..

It still doesn’t impress me, remember the hype on the Valkyrie..lol..ya.. 224 grendel kills it in every way..

90’s at 3000+
75’s at 3300-3400
55’s at 3550+

You really want to shine, why not build one of the record holding PRC’s?





That’s not bad, but still, if just shooting steel, 556/grendel already gets you their..

To each their own. I work with what I got and shoot it, change shit as I see fit.. Better then 90% of keyboard commandos just running their mouth and not shooting.

But how is the 6mm arc build doing Alamo? What’s ammo costing ya..any more threads on it?? Lol [:D]Not the defense. Just trying to provide you with some info. If you've already done your own research then good for you. Enjoy whatever it is you like shooting and think is better than whatever else is out there.

We, as a group, can work awfully hard sometimes to take all the fun out of what should be a fun and enjoyable hobby. Taking ourselves way too seriously certainly doesn't help.

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[alamo5000]

I missed the memo where the Grendel fanboys were required to give up their guns and exchange them for 6 ARC.

[Joelski]

I missed the memo where the Grendel fanboys were required to give up their guns and exchange them for 6 ARC.

7822

[mustangfreek]

I missed the memo where the Grendel fanboys were required to give up their guns and exchange them for 6 ARC.

What...that’s all you got..lol
No, 3 page rebuttal

No fanboy here, I just don’t need to jump on every new thing brought out. Plenty of non mainstream cartridges that will smoke the 6mm arc and grendel...

[BoilerUp]

When new calibers come out they can create an interesting and attractive option for shooters looking to fulfill the role that the new caliber serves, but if a shooter already has a caliber in that category it may not provide a compelling reason to switch. For example, shooters of the .260 Remington didn't understand the "hype" of the 6.5 Creed and if you were happy with your .260 there is really no reason to drop it and switch over to CM (at least, for most shooters). But if you were looking to do something different than .308 then CM might be a better choice over .260R. What I don't get is the religion some folks get over their choices. Options are good and new stuff is fun. All cartridge designs had design goals and constraints and we continue to learn. That's the nature of engineering. What I find amusing is that the past decade or so seems to be a ballistic renaissance of lessons that the Swedes and Swiss learned about a hundred years ago with the 6.5x55 and GP11, respectively.

[alamo5000]

What...that’s all you got..lol
No, 3 page rebuttal

No fanboy here, I just don’t need to jump on every new thing brought out. Plenty of non mainstream cartridges that will smoke the 6mm arc and grendel...

I am not here to convince you to like my choices. The tone of your replies here says your mind is already made up. No amount of typing will change that and it certainly won't provide any validation for me.


When new calibers come out they can create an interesting and attractive option for shooters looking to fulfill the role that the new caliber serves, but if a shooter already has a caliber in that category it may not provide a compelling reason to switch. For example, shooters of the .260 Remington didn't understand the "hype" of the 6.5 Creed and if you were happy with your .260 there is really no reason to drop it and switch over to CM (at least, for most shooters). But if you were looking to do something different than .308 then CM might be a better choice over .260R. What I don't get is the religion some folks get over their choices. Options are good and new stuff is fun. All cartridge designs had design goals and constraints and we continue to learn. That's the nature of engineering. What I find amusing is that the past decade or so seems to be a ballistic renaissance of lessons that the Swedes and Swiss learned about a hundred years ago with the 6.5x55 and GP11, respectively.

My whole reason for building a 6 ARC was because it was low hanging fruit for a goal of mine. I didn't own a 1000+ yard gun. I've been wanting one for quite a long time and I was working towards that goal. I still will build or buy something nice when the opportunity arises. Then all of the sudden 6ARC came out and it was low hanging fruit. For the cost of an upper I could do it while I get the rest of my crap together. If I already had a 1000 yard gun the odds of me building a 6ARC would have been very low. That said the capabilities it brings to a standard AR platform is very interesting.

It wasn't 15 minutes from the announcement of the ARC that the Grendel boys were screaming and flooding the internet with how bad it sucked. Having never seen one, held one, or shot one, they all 'knew' it sucked. I really don't understand that mindset. It's not like this is some turf war, at least not to me.

The 6 ARC does what I want it to do. If it doesn't all I am out is maybe the cost of an upper, but really not even that. Hell, when they released load data I looked and had 16 unopened pounds of the prime powder(s) for 6 ARC. For me it was 'hell, all I need is some brass and bullets' type of thinking which largely is still true. Like I said, it was low hanging fruit to accomplish a goal of shooting beyond 1000 yards for as cheaply as I can.

All that being said there is very little on the 6 ARC that hasn't been tested extensively. Bullets? People have been shooting 6mm forever. There is a whole big selection of bullets out there. Unlike the 224Valkyrie it wasn't relying on a single bullet type to make it's claims work. Mags? People have been shooting those Grendel mags for a while now. The ARC was a new soup made from a ton of old technology that just happened to be applied into a new cartridge. When 6.5 Creed came out no one was saying 'the mags will suck' simply because it uses the same mags. Pretty much the same thing is true with the 6 ARC.

In my analysis of things I quickly turned away from the Valkyrie. That said I liked the ARC 100x more because there weren't any obvious failure points or huge 'unknowns' that I could find.

[mustangfreek]

Lol..yep..I’m not reading all that and replying..my mind is made up, it’s just another novelty round that will die...

Another one to look at is the 6mm creedmoor. More powder room for dem 6mm freedom seeds

But, for the sake of science.. update us on how it works out.. [pop]

And for the phuck Ing record..No grendel fan boy here.. always been a 6.5 fan. Since my first intro to it..260
I got the barrel for free thru some trades and got some ammo for cheap a few years back for the brass , so it worked out.
Another positive for the grendel is the cheap steel case Ammo for blasting and steel..it’s actually pretty accurate , and for what I payed for it .29 cents a rd.. cheaper then 556 in every way and accurate enough for .I don’t shoot it as much as I need more Mag in the scope department to actually shoot groups at range..

[usbp379]

Some (not very good) 6 ARC info:

https://youtu.be/OC2E2IkXAC0

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[alamo5000]

Some (not very good) 6 ARC info:

https://youtu.be/OC2E2IkXAC0

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Consensus is he's full of shit. That said I still have not been able to fully test mine yet. Others that post in other forums have a different experience.

Hopefully I will be able to test mine out soon.

[usbp379]

Consensus is he's full of shit.

FoS in what way? Intentionally shooting 3" groups with the factory stuff?

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[usbp379]

An update from Eagle Eye:

https://youtu.be/ZG71DSu9sbY

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[usbp379]

And another:

https://youtu.be/xy9gHwtB8sQ

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[Former11B]

Some (not very good) 6 ARC info:

https://youtu.be/OC2E2IkXAC0

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Looks like a really thin faxon barrel

The 24” Bartlein 6ARC by Craddock I dropped in my friends Seekins set is ridiculously accurate with white box Hornady ELD ammo.

You get what you pay for. Not that Faxon is a bottom of the barrel brand but I know that Bartlein will shoot before I even buy it.

$320 vs $712

[SINNER]

Using the video of that guy fumbling his way into a poor group as proof of poor performance is like getting your weather from the neighbor then blaming the radar for inaccuracies.

[Joelski]

Dood blames the ammo when his kid outshot him, cold. [BD]

Seems full of it to me!

[usbp379]

Another video from Eagle Eye:

https://youtu.be/7ArCIa71Z6A

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[alamo5000]

That guy's videos seem like he's trying to sell something. Whether it's barrels or gunsmithing services it really comes across like that to me.

Those cartridges, the 6.5 Grendel and 6mmARC are both handloading cartridges for the most part. The Grendel has more offerings because it's been around a lot longer, but his primary basis for the series is that (according to him) 6ARC factory ammo won't shoot in his guns. Then he says 6 ARC is jump sensitive so he says he wants to "fix it".

While I don't doubt that you could tailor make a barrel for a given bullet the 6 ARC is still quite new. There is still an on going debate about barrel twist. Personally I think anything 20 to maybe 22 inches or shorter should have a 1:7 twist as the standard for "generic" barrels.

Again he is talking about a different metric in barrel manufacturing. For me having a barrel with jump set up for the whole range of 6mm bullets vs something really specific is definitely something to watch (that is if it ever even becomes an issue). If I can make my gun shoot half a minute I'll be good to go. I won't even bother trying to do that with factory ammo though.

I have a very specific niche that I want this to fill. I'm not going to be gopher hunting with light weight bullets. I want mine to fill a gap between 500 yards and 1000 + yards. I will take mine farther than that but I have a specific thing I want to do.

All in all I think it will be really hard to make a gun shoot everything good. Shooting 80 grain all the way up to 115 grain and expecting perfection at every step along the way isn't realistic in my opinion.

The 6ARC is really a diverse cartridge, sort of like the 300 BLK. Some of the reports for a 12.5" SBR in 6ARC are impressive. Likewise they are being shot out to a mile.

While I think there is plenty of room to go off in the weeds tailor making a barrel for a given application, I don't think his claim that it's "an inherently inaccurate cartridge" are true at all. And I'm not comparing it to the 6.5 Grendel either. If you like it, shoot it. It's all welcome as far as I am concerned.

[alamo5000]

On a separate note this Rainier Arms barrel looks really good. The only thing I question is the need for a +2 gas system. Even a +1 might be ok but I don't see the need for it based on my really limited use.

I'm sure it will probably be a great shooter though. If I hadn't just put together my upper I would jump on it.

https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-ultramatch-mod2-6mm-arc-rifle-barrel-22/

[usbp379]

@alamo5000

How's your 6 ARC performing? Have you had a chance to wring it out now that you've got your scope stuff figured out?

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[alamo5000]

@alamo5000

How's your 6 ARC performing? Have you had a chance to wring it out now that you've got your scope stuff figured out?

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Not yet. I have been extremely busy with other things. Also components are at a premium still. I only have one type of bullet to try.

That all being said I am about to start load development soon I hope.

[alamo5000]

I did my first load development today. I did a velocity test and two other tests. I am using 112 grain Match Burners because that's all I got.

With 29 grains of CFE 223 I got 2668 velocity. I backed off a lot and didn't get to max because that grain weight of bullet is not listed anywhere.

On the very first 5 shot string I looked at the chronograph and my SD was 7. That's pretty good.

I just seated the bullets to magazine length and went for it. I am far from being anywhere near completed, but with the factory ammo I was getting under an MOA with that, and with these first few shots I think it has potential. We will see how it turns out.

Those bullets might work good and they might not. The overall shape of the bullet doesn't give much leeway on seating depth. This is literally the first day shooting those so we shall see.

[usbp379]

I did my first load development today. I did a velocity test and two other tests. I am using 112 grain Match Burners because that's all I got.

With 29 grains of CFE 223 I got 2668 velocity. I backed off a lot and didn't get to max because that grain weight of bullet is not listed anywhere.

On the very first 5 shot string I looked at the chronograph and my SD was 7. That's pretty good.

I just seated the bullets to magazine length and went for it. I am far from being anywhere near completed, but with the factory ammo I was getting under an MOA with that, and with these first few shots I think it has potential. We will see how it turns out.

Those bullets might work good and they might not. The overall shape of the bullet doesn't give much leeway on seating depth. This is literally the first day shooting those so we shall see.Berger 109s seem to be a favorite. Hopefully the 112s will work. Price is certainly good for that particular bullet.

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[alamo5000]

Berger 109s seem to be a favorite. Hopefully the 112s will work. Price is certainly good for that particular bullet.

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109s are definitely on my list. I have 300 of the Match Burners. I will be on the lookout for more options to test. I am open to anything 107 and up. If I can get good results from the 112s that will be awesome. They are cheap and have a high-ish BC.

[usbp379]

109s are definitely on my list. I have 300 of the Match Burners. I will be on the lookout for more options to test. I am open to anything 107 and up. If I can get good results from the 112s that will be awesome. They are cheap and have a high-ish BC.I'd think the Vapor Trail 103s might be worth a try.

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[usbp379]

More Eagle's Nest:

https://youtu.be/oiRWRiVJ_28

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[alamo5000]

More Eagle's Nest:

https://youtu.be/oiRWRiVJ_28

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His approach in this video is much better than trying to drum up 'controversy' by making off the cuff statements. If he had started out this whole thing by just doing it then he would have never gotten nearly as much heat for his comments.

I personally won't write off the idea of changing some chamber dimensions, not by a mile would I write that off as a distinct possibility (or even probability)...

Any time you are working with what is essentially the first wave of anything, much less barrels or cartridges, you should expect that things will get tuned up over time.

[alamo5000]

I have been doing a little bit of load development. I have been extremely limited in supplies though because 6mm bullets have been vaporware. Also I have been really busy with other stuff. I started out trying some 112 grain matchburners, but then the other day I saw a box of Hornady 108 grain on the shelf in Academy. I bought them and today started out with them.

This was literally the first load I shot with them without doing any seating depth testing on those specific bullets. It was the very first charge weight too.

7884

The group measured approximately .517 inches from outside edges. If you translate that center to center it's a .27 inch group. Since one MOA is 1.08 inches that works out to exactly .25 MOA.

7885

[tact]

1 MOA = 1.047”

[alamo5000]

1 MOA = 1.047”

Thanks. I couldn't remember the exact number for the life of me. I knew it was just over an inch, not an actual inch.

Still not a bad group for day one with some new bullets.

.257 MOA group ain't too shabby.

[tact]

Thanks. I couldn't remember the exact number for the life of me. I knew it was just over an inch, not an actual inch.

Still not a bad group for day one with some new bullets.

.257 MOA group ain't too shabby.

Very nice….

I may have missed it, but what was your final setup to include glass?

[alamo5000]

Very nice….

I may have missed it, but what was your final setup to include glass?

Tip to tail I have a Griffin Explorr 30 with a 6.5 cal taper mount device. A custom 24" McGowan barrel, bead blasted with flutes. A Cross Machine handguard and a matching Cross Machine slick side upper. BCG is a RCA, POF Strike Eagle charging handle. Scope mount is a Griffin SPRM 15MOA, and the optic is a Vortex Strike Eagle with a MIL reticle.

I am using the lower from one of my other rifles, matching Cross Machine lower, of course with a single stage CMC flat face drop in trigger. I will build a dedicated lower for this gun most likely. I built the upper to get it shooting and work out any possible kinks and to verify that I want to be in this caliber before I went all in.

It's pretty cool having (easily) a 1,000 yard gun not much bigger than a regular old AR. I chose the longer barrel because I wanted to...but I think if you are not going to shoot past 1K you could get away with an 18 inch barrel most likely.

If I can score some more bullets I will take this one to a grand and beyond. All I have available on a regular basis is 1,400 yards so I think this will get there.

[alamo5000]

Starline recently said that once they catch up on their backlog that they will also start making 6ARC brass. They estimated that it might be around the end of summer but who knows.

I have 500 pieces of starline 6.5 grendel brass that I am forming into 6ARC. It's a relatively easy conversion for sure but having a second source for factory brass is a welcome sight.

[Former11B]

Tip to tail I have a Griffin Explorr 30 with a 6.5 cal taper mount device. A custom 24" McGowan barrel, bead blasted with flutes. A Cross Machine handguard and a matching Cross Machine slick side upper. BCG is a RCA, POF Strike Eagle charging handle. Scope mount is a Griffin SPRM 15MOA, and the optic is a Vortex Strike Eagle with a MIL reticle.

I am using the lower from one of my other rifles, matching Cross Machine lower, of course with a single stage CMC flat face drop in trigger. I will build a dedicated lower for this gun most likely. I built the upper to get it shooting and work out any possible kinks and to verify that I want to be in this caliber before I went all in.

It's pretty cool having (easily) a 1,000 yard gun not much bigger than a regular old AR. I chose the longer barrel because I wanted to...but I think if you are not going to shoot past 1K you could get away with an 18 inch barrel most likely.

If I can score some more bullets I will take this one to a grand and beyond. All I have available on a regular basis is 1,400 yards so I think this will get there.

I see Hornady 105s here semi regularly

Are the 108s ELDs?

[BoilerUp]

I have to admit, now that I'm shooting 6mm Creedmoor the ARC is a bit more interesting for the AR platform. Still not a fan of the 7.62x39/6.5 Grendel bolt face, though, and I really don't have a use for it, but it is interesting.

I'm sticking with Berger for the Creed, 105 VLD Target and 108 Boat Tail Target. If you shoot VLD, they can be happy with a crazy amount of jump

[alamo5000]

I see Hornady 105s here semi regularly

Are the 108s ELDs?

I am not quite sure of your question. I have experimented with two bullets but that is mainly because of availability. The first ones I tried were 112 grain Barnes but I had mixed results accuracy wise.

Later on I found some 108 grain Hornady projectiles and I shot a quarter MOA group on the first day of testing. It seems like those bullets have been more available so I bought 500 of them. I am keen to try some Berger 109's and a few from Sierra but they are all vaporware.

I did shoot some 105's in factory ammo a while back. I bought it to harvest the brass before I was able to get some Starline.

[alamo5000]

I have to admit, now that I'm shooting 6mm Creedmoor the ARC is a bit more interesting for the AR platform. Still not a fan of the 7.62x39/6.5 Grendel bolt face, though, and I really don't have a use for it, but it is interesting.

I'm sticking with Berger for the Creed, 105 VLD Target and 108 Boat Tail Target. If you shoot VLD, they can be happy with a crazy amount of jump

I've heard people say that way back when that their bolts would crack or whatever, but I think that was part of the growing pains that started with the Grendel and stuck around via gunlore. Who knows, it might be true but I've never seen anyone have a problem. I certainly don't run high pressure max loads in anything.

I have been contemplating building a gun that will get me to 1K+ for a really long time. I was saving up to get nicer stuff and at one point I had a large frame reciever set in my cart but ultimately I decided to hold off. Then along came this 6 ARC and it checked more than one box so I jumped on it, plus it was really low hanging fruit so to speak cost wise. At the time I had nothing to plug the hole in between 600 and 1K.

Anyway now I absolutely love it. I am learning a ton about it's nuances in the process. I would definitely love to try other bullets too. I will eventually if things ever get back in stock.

[BoilerUp]

I am not quite sure of your question. I have experimented with two bullets but that is mainly because of availability. The first ones I tried were 112 grain Barnes but I had mixed results accuracy wise.

Later on I found some 108 grain Hornady projectiles and I shot a quarter MOA group on the first day of testing. It seems like those bullets have been more available so I bought 500 of them.

I think he's asking if the 108s are these: https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/6mm-.243-108-gr-eld-match#!/

[alamo5000]

I think he's asking if the 108s are these: https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/6mm-.243-108-gr-eld-match#!/

Yes. That's what I've been shooting lately.

[Former11B]

I am not quite sure of your question. I have experimented with two bullets but that is mainly because of availability. The first ones I tried were 112 grain Barnes but I had mixed results accuracy wise.

Later on I found some 108 grain Hornady projectiles and I shot a quarter MOA group on the first day of testing. It seems like those bullets have been more available so I bought 500 of them. I am keen to try some Berger 109's and a few from Sierra but they are all vaporware.

I did shoot some 105's in factory ammo a while back. I bought it to harvest the brass before I was able to get some Starline.

I was wondering if the 108gr bullets you used were ELDs or the regular BTHPs. I haven’t seen anything but 105s locally

[alamo5000]

I was wondering if the 108gr bullets you used were ELDs or the regular BTHPs. I haven’t seen anything but 105s locally

I saw a single box on the shelf at my local Academy Sporting Goods store and bought it on a whim to test out. Later on I bought more online. The availability online is getting better, at least for those bullets. Other things are still not to be found.

https://driftersgear.com/products/hrndy-eld-m-6mm-243-108gr-100ct

[additiondakku01]

To have a legit 1,000 yard gun in a standard AR size platform, like the Valkyrie, is very interesting. Obviously I haven't shot the 6ARC but my first impressions are basically 'where do I sign up?'. My only real question about the whole thing now is pretty much all around magazines and (for me) brass. What is the price and availability, and selection looking like?

[usbp379]

What is the price and availability, and selection looking like?

6.5 Grendel mags should work. I've had good results with the steel E-Lander mags.

Hornady is the only source for brass. Black Hills announced at SHOT that they will be selling ammo.

Other options include resizing and trimming 6.5 Grendel. 22 or 6mm PPC can also be formed to work. If you want to spend way too much time you can also form brass out of 7.62x39.

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[alamo5000]

The 6 ARC was born in the middle of a long term shortage so a lot of companies have not fully adopted it yet.

As for brass I bought like 1K Starline 6.5 Grendel brass. Converting it is not hard at all. Anneal, resize, then trim. I have had a lot better luck with my converted brass vs Hornady factory brass.

I'm fully confident that more and more companies will start supporting the 6ARC. Brass is about the only thing that isn't already fully vetted for a long time in the Grendel world.

I have to look at the mags I got. I found some that work great so I bought 20-30 of them.

[TheRifleman]

Isn't Geissele coming out with a 6 ARC mag?

[alamo5000]

Peterson Brass is about to release 6 ARC brass sometime in Q2 of this year...That's interesting for sure.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls5PEHI5kF8&t=45s

[usbp379]

Peterson Brass is about to release 6 ARC brass sometime in Q2 of this year...That's interesting for sure.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls5PEHI5kF8&t=45sHopefully this will stay on schedule.

I talked to Starline recently. No announced plans for 6 ARC there.

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[alamo5000]

Hopefully this will stay on schedule.

I talked to Starline recently. No announced plans for 6 ARC there.

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Well, I just found out that Peterson pushed it from Q2 to the 2nd half of 23.

[Joelski]

Still watching. This seems more like a reloader's round than something that will ever be plentiful enough to even shoot briefly on trips to the back 40. Held off on .224 and it faded away. I wish there was something better than SAAMI at predicting what will stick around in mainstream shooting vs. what will go into the fad round bin in a few years.

[alamo5000]

Still watching. This seems more like a reloader's round than something that will ever be plentiful enough to even shoot briefly on trips to the back 40. Held off on .224 and it faded away. I wish there was something better than SAAMI at predicting what will stick around in mainstream shooting vs. what will go into the fad round bin in a few years.

I never touched the .224 Valkarie. I saw through it before they ever got started. The whole claim to fame 'enhanced performance' that it supposedly offered was based around a single bullet from a single manufacturer... so no.

On the other hand every single individual component of the 6 ARC has had years, if not decades of in the field use and testing. The 6 ARC is here to stay.

As far as what manufacturers do--- hell, they can't even make primers so no telling what they will or won't wind up doing.

[TheRifleman]

That's what has been keeping me from getting started with 6 ARC; the lack of support as far as ammunition from the factory other than the just one and two and lack of brass.

I am not going to convert brass to to 6 ARC for the same reasons I don't convert to 300 BO, because I hate brass prep already and extra steps to convert is a hard pass. Plus the only reason we are getting Blackhills onboard because of the recent adoption of the Geissele 6 ARC rifles that the Seals just got delivered.

So far I've got 600 rounds of it in 200 round cases from Hornady. When I start seeing support in the numbers that I will like, I may jump in. Whether or not 6 will be here to stay depends on the availability of things along with the reliability of magazines in a capacity of 20 or 25 even, which is a fact that some will have no other choice but to accept as an answer in these circles.

[Uffdaphil]

Reliable full capacity mags for odd AR calibers is the big issue with me. I had 2 S&W 5.45x39 ARs I finally sold because no mag would feed a 28 rounder.

I jumped into 6.8 SPC when Magpul came out with a specific mag and they feed flawlessly. Unfortunately the only lowers for them are expensive LWRC and Sulzer (mine) which was sued out of business. I’m kind of surprised Magpul would develop a mag for just a single company. Maybe they got a piece of LWRC in the deal.

300BLK got me because Magpul and a specific (D&H?) metal mag both have zero problems. A local reloader sold me several thousand processed LC brass cheap which was also a factor. But I’ll likely expire before I shoot all my factory stuff. A young family reloader is going to like my will - mucho fixins’ for 4 calibers.

[alamo5000]

As for some of the other things said here, in ways I kind of agree. That said there is a method to the madness so to speak.

Is 6ARC a reliader's cartridge? Yes absolutely, depending on how you use it. For anything in any caliber on any platform that for me would be somewhat true depending on the purpose of it that is.

Shooting anything long range, hand loading gives so much better results at a fraction of the cost compared to equivalent factory ammo. Junkie ammo is frustrating to try and shoot at any kind of distance.

For 300BLK it's 98% about cost. Reloading is way cheaper by a lot. The only downside to 300BLK is that you can't use just any old case to form brass. Some of them have wall thickness that is too much.

As for just forming brass, that part is very easy. The forming isn't bad. What sucks is the trimming, especially 300BLK. Fortunately when I do forming I do as much as possible and put the stuff I'm not using in storage. It's literally a once and done type of thing and then I will have enough brass for 5-10 years probably.

If I had to do all that every time I reload I probably wouldn't reload.

For me I save all my brass. I have a brass catcher so I rarely lose anything. 1K cases tends to last me a really long time.

In those contexts where reloading has the most value is in longer range and/or precision applications.

Just wanting to make bulk ammo to "save money" may or may not be true depending on what it is.

Specifically for 6ARC or literally any other cartridge that will be shot to 1K or beyond reloading can easily be the difference between success and failure. In that instance reloading is worth way more than just cost. Again it just depends on what you are doing.

[TheRifleman]

I think we have different case users here, discussing this cartridge. No one is saying that it cannot perform.

However what we are saying and it's an undeniable fact, that both factory ammunition and component limited availability and lack of reliable magazines at 20 or above capacity, is what's hurting this cartridge.

And yes, you can save money when reloading for bulk. But not the way one think it would in the traditional sense. If someone say has limited fun money funds, they can buy a bit here, buy a bit there, and suddenly they have it all ready to make the ammunition meanwhile no bills went unpaid, there's still a roof over their heads, and they can still eat food and get gas for traveling.

I want this cartridge to take off. But Hornady needs to relinquish their precious to the masses to produce, and companies doing the same with components. I want bulk because if I am not training with this cartridge from simple drills to longer than 5.56 engagement ranges, with a big enough stash to sustain, then what's the point here because there isn't from where I stand.

Junk ammo that's brass cased is great for drills and great for brass harvesting. Hornady 308 in almost all flavorings of is pretty meh, but their brass is great in 130 TSX or TTSX. Just one such example. Another is M855 or M193 sourced from LC. Decent bulk ammo but when harvested they make for some really good brass for 77 SMK.

Just imagine a 12 inch mini recce with mid length gas SBR in 6 ARC with a reliable 25 round magazine. Lightweight LPVO like an ATACR 1-8 in night vision height, piggybacking an ACRO P2 for CQB and night vision passive aiming, and an RH25 clip on thermal in front. Cloud Defensive Rein 2.0 18350 tube, and whatever can of your choice in front. This would literally be the GOAT jack of all but master of none do all.

[additiondakku01]

I am not quite sure of your question. I have experimented with two bullets but that is mainly because of availability. The first ones I tried were 112 grain Barnes but I had mixed results accuracy wise.
pikashow apk (https://pikashow.fyi/)
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[TheRifleman]

2024 AAC (Palmetto State Armory) will be manufacturing 6mm ARC ammo. From the horse's own mouth.

A cheaper alternative for training and practice ammo will come to fruition.

[usbp379]

2024 AAC (Palmetto State Armory) will be manufacturing 6mm ARC ammo. From the horse's own mouth.

A cheaper alternative for training and practice ammo will come to fruition.Link?

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[TheRifleman]

Link?

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It was posted in TOS, under tech in the ammo section. Look for 6.5 Grendel in the header.

[Joelski]

To me, high capacity equals shorter range shooting conditions, be it range, plinking, or defense. Well, do we need a round besides M855 or SS109 out of a 5.56 rifle to achieve that purpose? Longer range OTOH, equals precision, slower firing intervals, and usually higher cost per round. In shooting in all practical situations I've found that 20's work best (for me) in any situation simply because I don't just shoot sitting or standing. Since I shoot mostly on private land, I'm not confined to shooting lanes and will use anything to improve my firing position, be it a tree, the ground, or anything else helpful. I'm not competing or getting my war on, so YMMV, but I like the mid size mags the best for positioning off a bag or bipod.

I get shit for being anti-cork sniffer when it comes to rounds, but I'm not putting anybody's choices down, just stating what works best for me. I only piped in because of the issue with mag capacity. I don't see the need for a full 30-40 rounds of niche ammo, so educate me; what application makes having 5-10 more rounds expedient vs. swapping to a fresh 20-ish rounder?

[alamo5000]

To me, high capacity equals shorter range shooting conditions, be it range, plinking, or defense. Well, do we need a round besides M855 or SS109 out of a 5.56 rifle to achieve that purpose? Longer range OTOH, equals precision, slower firing intervals, and usually higher cost per round. In shooting in all practical situations I've found that 20's work best (for me) in any situation simply because I don't just shoot sitting or standing. Since I shoot mostly on private land, I'm not confined to shooting lanes and will use anything to improve my firing position, be it a tree, the ground, or anything else helpful. I'm not competing or getting my war on, so YMMV, but I like the mid size mags the best for positioning off a bag or bipod.

I get shit for being anti-cork sniffer when it comes to rounds, but I'm not putting anybody's choices down, just stating what works best for me. I only piped in because of the issue with mag capacity. I don't see the need for a full 30-40 rounds of niche ammo, so educate me; what application makes having 5-10 more rounds expedient vs. swapping to a fresh 20-ish rounder?

I agree with your assessment. That said, specifically with the 6 ARC, from what I understand, the Special Forces guys are using it in more of an SBRish setup. In that type of use case it definitely has a lot more performance and a lot more range than anything 5.56 could offer out of a similar sized setup. Outside of that scenario there is not much that is compelling about a 30 round mag for this particular cartridge.

While I have toyed with the idea of a 6 ARC SBR (and I still might do it later on at some point), in general though for my use I prefer shorter mags for prone or other shooting out of my rifle. For me, 6 ARC is a much cheaper option than a competitor round for similar performance.

[Uffdaphil]

I like 20 rounders (and 10s for .308) for all the comfy reasons stated. But I want every semi I leave my heirs to have the optional and optimal “war mode” of higher cap mags. The same logic applies to ammo. I can have both match and Geneva Convention-be-damned in my stockpile.

I’m not knocking niche guns. If I had more than probably single digit years left I’d have a bunch of them.

[TheRifleman]

It's all subjective. If you were to read the AAR of the Tongo Tongo ambush, something in 6 ARC in a reasonable capacity would most likely have saved some lives and would have given La David Johnson more standoff range because he was alone, outgunned by support weapons, and could only suppress for so long. If you were to read some of the AAR's from battles such as COP Keating in Afghanistan, it would have given them a more effective edge at those taking potshots far out. In fact, one such soldier who was at Keating prior to that battle, took lessons learned there and when he rewrote then fixed the broken US Army's marksmanship and qualification programs, he used lessons learned from there mostly to do it with. Marines that were experiencing almost the same things, then began to follow form and rewrite their own programs too. But that's in the weeds.

For me, I am fine with just a 20 so long as it's reliable. But I'd also like a war stock of both ammo and higher capacity magazines that are just as reliable as a just in case. The odds of me having to need let alone use, almost nil. Haven't had to use a fire extinguisher yet, yet I will always have some available and current.

I too also shoot outdoors, and not on established ranges. I too also use boulders, rock formations, stumps, tree branches, trees themselves, and other barricade types. It's just a discussion over semantics though.

[Joelski]

Great feedback, thanks guys. Love the fire extinguisher rationale. I will use that soon, I'm sure.

[usbp379]

Starline will soon be (maybe is now) offering 6mm ARC brass.


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[alamo5000]

Starline will soon be (maybe is now) offering 6mm ARC brass.


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I heard that too, but I could not find any official information about it. Do you have a link or know any kind of timeline?

[alamo5000]

Speaking of Starline... they are now taking backorders for the new 6 ARC brass.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/6mm-arc-brass

[TheRifleman]

Well, I am taking the plunge. Baby steps for now. Ordered a Duramag 6.5G 20 and an E-Lander 6 ARC 24 to figure out which is better for my needs, most likely going with a Faxon carbine gas 12.5 if I cannot find a decent mid length 12.5 6 ARC barrel when the funds become available. I am thinking of going with a JP bolt kit in 6.5G because the BCG I'd like to get for is a SOLGW but is a hundred more and I already have a spare bolt carrier.

I probably should try to score some cases of Hornady Black to stash, use some, and farm brass with. This won't be a high or medium volume rifle, just a spare upper option for my SBR 11.5 in 5.56. This will be done as a mini recce companion upper should the need for a small and handier rifle with more range is needed.

[alamo5000]

Well, I am taking the plunge. Baby steps for now. Ordered a Duramag 6.5G 20 and an E-Lander 6 ARC 24 to figure out which is better for my needs, most likely going with a Faxon carbine gas 12.5 if I cannot find a decent mid length 12.5 6 ARC barrel when the funds become available. I am thinking of going with a JP bolt kit in 6.5G because the BCG I'd like to get for is a SOLGW but is a hundred more and I already have a spare bolt carrier.

I probably should try to score some cases of Hornady Black to stash, use some, and farm brass with. This won't be a high or medium volume rifle, just a spare upper option for my SBR 11.5 in 5.56. This will be done as a mini recce companion upper should the need for a small and handier rifle with more range is needed.

I am using Rubber City Armory 6.5 Grendel bolts. I bought a few of them so I had spares just in case.

https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/6-5-grendel-complete-bolt-only/

As far as brass goes, if you are a reloader go with Starline. I bought a bunch of new 6.5 Grendel cases that have to be reformed first, but they are doing really good. Now they offer factory 6 ARC brass.

[TheRifleman]

I am using Rubber City Armory 6.5 Grendel bolts. I bought a few of them so I had spares just in case.

https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/6-5-grendel-complete-bolt-only/

As far as brass goes, if you are a reloader go with Starline. I bought a bunch of new 6.5 Grendel cases that have to be reformed first, but they are doing really good. Now they offer factory 6 ARC brass.
**DO NOT USE WITH TYPE I BARRELS AS EXCESSIVE HEAD SPACE WILL OCCUR.**

^^ that has me concerned. I was reading in the 6mmARC forum to stick with Type 1 bolts. I have no idea what these barrel company chambers are.

[usbp379]

**DO NOT USE WITH TYPE I BARRELS AS EXCESSIVE HEAD SPACE WILL OCCUR.**

^^ that has me concerned. I was reading in the 6mmARC forum to stick with Type 1 bolts. I have no idea what these barrel company chambers are.Why not get a Faxon bolt to go with your Faxon barrel?

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[alamo5000]

**DO NOT USE WITH TYPE I BARRELS AS EXCESSIVE HEAD SPACE WILL OCCUR.**

^^ that has me concerned. I was reading in the 6mmARC forum to stick with Type 1 bolts. I have no idea what these barrel company chambers are.

"A Type I bolt, also known as the 7.62×39 bolt, has a bolt face depth of . 125” and is used with some Grendel variants. The Type II bolt is the bolt originally designed for the 6.5 Grendel and has a bolt face depth of . 136”."

--

"The real difference between the two is head space. The Grendel I which to my knowledge is no longer made by MOST was designed to work with the bolt face depth used with the 7.62x39. The Grendel II which is the standard SAAMI is set up to use a bolt face that is deeper and supports the case head better."

--

I guess somewhere along the line of development for the 6.5 Grendel they experimented with using AK brass. With 6 ARC though--there is literally no one that has ever manufactured a Type I barrel for the 6ARC as all that was worked out by the Grendel people years ago.

https://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?7420-The-Story-of-the-Grendel-bolt

[alamo5000]

**DO NOT USE WITH TYPE I BARRELS AS EXCESSIVE HEAD SPACE WILL OCCUR.**

^^ that has me concerned. I was reading in the 6mmARC forum to stick with Type 1 bolts. I have no idea what these barrel company chambers are.

Now you have a lot larger supply of barrels *and none of them are Type I*. The factory Hornady brass/ammo uses 'Type II' as the standard, as does all factory 6.5 Grendel ammo and brass.

Type I has literally never existed in 6 ARC. All of that stuff from Type I vs II is a throwback to the development of the 6.5 Grendel.

If you want to be special you can probably custom make a Type I 6 ARC barrel... but nothing off the shelf is like that. Anything using 'Type I' would not be SAAMI spec. It would fall into the 'custom' or 'wildcat' arena.

[alamo5000]

Further info from an old thread on a different forum.

https://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?12111-POLL-Type-1-or-Type-2

[alamo5000]

I was reading in the 6mmARC forum to stick with Type 1 bolts.

Whoever made that statement is not correct. At all. Type I still exists in some 6.5 Grendel circles, but Type II is the spec for the Grendel and ARC both.


I have no idea what these barrel company chambers are.

Literally no one makes a Type I 6 ARC barrel. The exception is unless someone went out of their way to custom make a barrel with those parameters. Hence 100% of all standard 6 ARC barrels are using 'Type II' bolts.

[usbp379]

Here's a new cartridge called the 6mm Max. It is based on the 350 Legend and its rebated rim. Being a smaller rim it uses a standard AR bolt. On paper this should be a superior cartridge since it doesn't rely on a bolt with weaker locking lugs.

https://bcprecisionballistics.com/about-the-rounds/

SOLGW will be offering rifles and barrels. I think official release is slated for November.

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[alamo5000]

Here's a new cartridge called the 6mm Max. It is based on the 350 Legend and its rebated rim. Being a smaller rim it uses a standard AR bolt. On paper this should be a superior cartridge since it doesn't rely on a bolt with weaker locking lugs.


"Superior" at what?

At first glance it will go the way of the 224 Valkyrie.

Also the 'Grendel issue' with the 'bolts breaking' was solved a really long time ago. Today 'bolt breakage' is largely folklore, especially when talking about modern enhanced bolts from decent manufacturers.

[usbp379]

"Superior" at what?

At first glance it will go the way of the 224 Valkyrie.

Also the 'Grendel issue' with the 'bolts breaking' was solved a really long time ago. Today 'bolt breakage' is largely folklore, especially when talking about modern enhanced bolts from decent manufacturers.Don't take it personally I'm just wanting to let @TheRifleman know there may be another option if he wants a 6mm AR.

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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/UqfpMxci168?si=UNnpxkMsMa66njRO



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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/2EzA5IiC2KY?si=F0AnI5GWAntHSRp_

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[alamo5000]

Don't take it personally I'm just wanting to let @TheRifleman know there may be another option if he wants a 6mm AR.

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No offense taken or intended. I am not taking it personally at all. It was actually a serious question. As in superior in what way?

[usbp379]

No offense taken or intended. I am not taking it personally at all. It was actually a serious question. As in superior in what way?See the videos linked above. Specifically the one where Mike Russo mentions reliability and extractor longevity.

I like the ARC but I'm also not married to it. If something better does come along I'll go that route.

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[TheRifleman]

I appreciate the suggestions, but am not interested in eighty seven different calibers. I just want something in an AR15 platform, that uses already being made ammunition, and has some chance of being produced in bulk. There's Hornady, and AAC, PSA's ammo company, is planning on introducing both projectiles, factory ammo, and brass.

I see no use for a 300 BO, and neither for every new flavor of the month, however I do see a use for something with a bit of range punch, that's already being supported, and can replace the 308 range when I need something smaller, more portable, in any situation that an 11.5 SBR in 5.56 just won't do.

And not interested in 6.5 Grendel. Both David Fortier's trolling and toxic personal attacks against 308 users as well as LRRP from arfcom and his crusade to be a missionary that was relentless in being an influencer, has made Grendel obnoxious enough to never want out of spite and because I do not want them to ever think that they've won, even in private and unknown to them.

[usbp379]

I appreciate the suggestions, but am not interested in eighty seven different calibers. I just want something in an AR15 platform, that uses already being made ammunition, and has some chance of being produced in bulk. There's Hornady, and AAC, PSA's ammo company, is planning on introducing both projectiles, factory ammo, and brass.

I see no use for a 300 BO, and neither for every new flavor of the month, however I do see a use for something with a bit of range punch, that's already being supported, and can replace the 308 range when I need something smaller, more portable, in any situation that an 11.5 SBR in 5.56 just won't do.

And not interested in 6.5 Grendel. Both David Fortier's trolling and toxic personal attacks against 308 users as well as LRRP from arfcom and his crusade to be a missionary that was relentless in being an influencer, has made Grendel obnoxious enough to never want out of spite and because I do not want them to ever think that they've won, even in private and unknown to them.Are Fortier and user LRRP still around? I haven't seen anything from either of those people in years.

If you want something "turn key" then the ARC is probably your best bet. It is almost main stream and I assume Federal, Winchester, Remington etc will intro ammo fairly soon.

Hornady is doing well and riding the success of the Creedmoor cartridges presently. But all this stuff is also essentially the Wild West. 6.8 SPC and Grendel fought it out to be the next best thing. I don't know if either really met the hype and neither are necessarily main stream now. If I was super concerned about future availability I'd probably give the ARC another year to see if these ammo companies are going to get on board.

Black Hills is making ammo BTW.

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[TheRifleman]

Are Fortier and user LRRP still around? I haven't seen anything from either of those people in years.

If you want something "turn key" then the ARC is probably your best bet. It is almost main stream and I assume Federal, Winchester, Remington etc will intro ammo fairly soon.

Hornady is doing well and riding the success of the Creedmoor cartridges presently. But all this stuff is also essentially the Wild West. 6.8 SPC and Grendel fought it out to be the next best thing. I don't know if either really met the hype and neither are necessarily main stream now. If I was super concerned about future availability I'd probably give the ARC another year to see if these ammo companies are going to get on board.

Black Hills is making ammo BTW.

Sent from my SM-G970U using TapatalkFortier under his screen name gunwrtr, flew too close to the sun when personally attacking members over surprise surprise, a topic about 308. He took that biz of folks still liking what he didn't like a bit too personal. Definitely has a personality disorder of some type, narcissism is most likely. The other narcissist, LRRP, trying to push 6.5G to make a buck for his 6.5G recipe book, left on his own accord when he bit more than he could chew with his paranormal rants with GD.

Those cartridges fought nothing, it was the fanbase that was doing it. Another obnoxious ford versus chevy debate for the 2A community to eat it's own over. Stupid, and doesn't change anyone's minds really or in my case, makes me not want to.

Yeah I knew about BH making it, probably mostly going to the units with Geissele rifles in 6 ARC that were issued to the SEALs.

[Former11B]

Well, I am taking the plunge. Baby steps for now. Ordered a Duramag 6.5G 20 and an E-Lander 6 ARC 24 to figure out which is better for my needs, most likely going with a Faxon carbine gas 12.5 if I cannot find a decent mid length 12.5 6 ARC barrel when the funds become available. I am thinking of going with a JP bolt kit in 6.5G because the BCG I'd like to get for is a SOLGW but is a hundred more and I already have a spare bolt carrier.

I probably should try to score some cases of Hornady Black to stash, use some, and farm brass with. This won't be a high or medium volume rifle, just a spare upper option for my SBR 11.5 in 5.56. This will be done as a mini recce companion upper should the need for a small and handier rifle with more range is needed.


I put a 24” Bartlein 6ARC barrel in my buddy’s seekins rifle for him. The duramags he bought functioned a lot better than the E-Landers if I recall. Always some type of feeding issue occurred damaging the, at the time, precious brass.

That rifle was stacking holes at 500yds easily

I’d like to do a 16”-18” 6ARC in place of a 16” 5.56 I have. I’d like a 16” for compactness but I was looking at some velocity data and an 18” keeps the 108s in the low 2600fps range which still has some ass to it. 2400fps range might not be ideal. But a 16” Proof carbon fiber would make a nice gun to carry around in the woods

[TheRifleman]

Well we shall see, if it doesn't work out then some random on Tacswap is going to have something nice to bargain for in trade or sale. Or I'll part out the 6 ARC stuff and convert it to a 12.5 5.56 mine recce in it's place.

I was reading to use an H2 buffer, and that's what's in my SBR right now an H2.

[usbp379]

The duramags he bought functioned a lot better than the E-Landers if I recall.



I have half a dozen E-Landers that I've been using with my 16" Faxon. I have had no issues.

I'm running a VLTOR A5H1 for a buffer.

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[Former11B]

I have half a dozen E-Landers that I've been using with my 16" Faxon. I have had no issues.

I'm running a VLTOR A5H1 for a buffer.

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Might’ve been through some changes or this one had a bad spring or feed lip problem.

[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/OJCcq4ll7l4?si=FzuYY9PHl5d0hX2j

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[TheRifleman]

I think that I will be going with this BCG for the Faxon 12.5 barrel.

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-6pt5-grendel-bolt-carrier-group-complete-black-nitride

[usbp379]

I think that I will be going with this BCG for the Faxon 12.5 barrel.

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-6pt5-grendel-bolt-carrier-group-complete-black-nitrideWhy not this one?

https://faxonfirearms.com/faxon-6-5-grendel-type-2-136-9310-bolt-carrier-complete-nitride/

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[TheRifleman]

Depends on whom has it in stock and what the cheapest price shipped will be honestly.

[usbp379]

Depends on whom has it in stock and what the cheapest price shipped will be honestly.https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1014830800

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[TheRifleman]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1014830800

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Much appreciated, however I was just gifted the money for this instead so that is what I just ordered from Primary Arms.

https://cmctriggers.com/product/ar15-bolt-carrier-group-6mm-arc/

Now all I need is the barrel and scope, everything else is here waiting minus the ammo.

[TheRifleman]

Well, I think that I may have finally decided on getting the Faxon 12.5 barrel. Had a good talk with Freddie Blish late last night, great guy and very knowledgeable in his instruction to his students.

[usbp379]

Here's a new one. It might do very well with the 75 and 88 grain bullets.


https://youtu.be/HfTVBtNIt8I?si=fXVj-DKqd8AHc0lw

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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/2B3m8dL02jo?si=uQbIA7Q_ThcUzxlS

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[TheRifleman]

So I am changing directions on my 6 ARC project. Instead of a 12.5 mini recce spare companion upper for my 5.56 11.5 SBR (stamp is marked 5.56 instead of multi), I'm going to convert a 16" mutt rifle into an actual recce with a 16' Compass Lake Criterion barrel in 6 ARC, in mid length, and provide the CMC bolt for headspace.

The plan is to use a BCM Mk2 extension with an A5H2 buffer using a green Sprinco spring. I am trying to keep the OAL down but cannot find any compensator or flash hider in either 6.5 or 6 with 5/8 threading that's small enough. I thought that the Vltor one would work but that threading on it is weird. Not sure if it's a typo or not but my Compass Lake is in 5/8. Any suggestions? I saw that Alexander had a 6.5 A2 but it's no longer being produced.

[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/o2l8AupNQ3c?si=gfAha1mxNSS_DL3n

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[BoilerUp]

So I am changing directions on my 6 ARC project. Instead of a 12.5 mini recce spare companion upper for my 5.56 11.5 SBR (stamp is marked 5.56 instead of multi), I'm going to convert a 16" mutt rifle into an actual recce with a 16' Compass Lake Criterion barrel in 6 ARC, in mid length, and provide the CMC bolt for headspace.

The plan is to use a BCM Mk2 extension with an A5H2 buffer using a green Sprinco spring. I am trying to keep the OAL down but cannot find any compensator or flash hider in either 6.5 or 6 with 5/8 threading that's small enough. I thought that the Vltor one would work but that threading on it is weird. Not sure if it's a typo or not but my Compass Lake is in 5/8. Any suggestions? I saw that Alexander had a 6.5 A2 but it's no longer being produced.

You don't have a suppressor choice driving which MD you need?

[alamo5000]

So I am changing directions on my 6 ARC project. Instead of a 12.5 mini recce spare companion upper for my 5.56 11.5 SBR (stamp is marked 5.56 instead of multi), I'm going to convert a 16" mutt rifle into an actual recce with a 16' Compass Lake Criterion barrel in 6 ARC, in mid length, and provide the CMC bolt for headspace.

The plan is to use a BCM Mk2 extension with an A5H2 buffer using a green Sprinco spring. I am trying to keep the OAL down but cannot find any compensator or flash hider in either 6.5 or 6 with 5/8 threading that's small enough. I thought that the Vltor one would work but that threading on it is weird. Not sure if it's a typo or not but my Compass Lake is in 5/8. Any suggestions? I saw that Alexander had a 6.5 A2 but it's no longer being produced.

Are you going to run it suppressed? Barrel length is up to you--but I will give my .02. It all depends on how far (realistically) you plan to shoot and how you have it set up. Have you given thought to a pinned 14.5? It would allow a complete rifle (recommended) without another stamp.

As far as gas systems go this is my experience. I have a 24" barrel with a rifle length gas. Even though I have an adjustable gas block I had a time with mine being over gassed. I ended up using an H2 or H3 and an XP spring to slow everything down enough. I had seen before that many manufacturers were doing rifle +1 or rifle +2 lengths, and after using a regular rifle length I can understand why. While I don't know exactly, my hypothesis is the amount of powder and resulting gas is more--a whole lot more--than I was originally expecting.

Long story short, I don't know if it's a universal thing, but I would plan on erring on the side of getting much heavier buffers, especially if you plan on running a can.

As far as muzzle threads go, they will be 5/8. Most places do not make anything 6mm. Been down that rabbit hole before. 6.5 works great and I would think even a 30 cal would be ok. I have Griffin mounts on everything as that's what my cans are. My 6 ARC one is a 6.5mm version. They do make several. That said, if you just want a plane jane A2 style, go with a 30cal. I am not sure how it will impact 'flash hiding capabilities' but it will definitely work on your barrel should you go that route.

[TheRifleman]

https://youtu.be/o2l8AupNQ3c?si=gfAha1mxNSS_DL3n

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Already watched it, I won't be pushing it that far anyway and for that shorter barrel is by being 3.5 inches less it'll be perfect for my needs.

[TheRifleman]

You don't have a suppressor choice driving which MD you need?

Yeah but that Sandman K is already on another rifle and I don't share cans or anything else other than a quick detach bipod between them all. I think that I may have gotten it down to just buying one more and either use the FCD 6310 or the Cobalt RCB-KM Warden copy that also uses Keymo.

[TheRifleman]

Are you going to run it suppressed? Barrel length is up to you--but I will give my .02. It all depends on how far (realistically) you plan to shoot and how you have it set up. Have you given thought to a pinned 14.5? It would allow a complete rifle (recommended) without another stamp.

As far as gas systems go this is my experience. I have a 24" barrel with a rifle length gas. Even though I have an adjustable gas block I had a time with mine being over gassed. I ended up using an H2 or H3 and an XP spring to slow everything down enough. I had seen before that many manufacturers were doing rifle +1 or rifle +2 lengths, and after using a regular rifle length I can understand why. While I don't know exactly, my hypothesis is the amount of powder and resulting gas is more--a whole lot more--than I was originally expecting.

Long story short, I don't know if it's a universal thing, but I would plan on erring on the side of getting much heavier buffers, especially if you plan on running a can.

As far as muzzle threads go, they will be 5/8. Most places do not make anything 6mm. Been down that rabbit hole before. 6.5 works great and I would think even a 30 cal would be ok. I have Griffin mounts on everything as that's what my cans are. My 6 ARC one is a 6.5mm version. They do make several. That said, if you just want a plane jane A2 style, go with a 30cal. I am not sure how it will impact 'flash hiding capabilities' but it will definitely work on your barrel should you go that route.I have and I may just do that, because Compass Lake does give this option with the lengths. Three in fact using a Criterion blank.

Good advice with getting additional and heavier buffers. And I like having spares of everything. The 5.56 barrel that's coming off the rifle to converted? A Sionics and it's a great barrel, perfect for later if needed for my recce rifle in 5.56.

[Former11B]

Food for thought from Rainier’s F1 FAQ

Your Form 1 was approved for a specific caliber, overall length, and barrel length. However you are allowed to “temporarily” change the upper length or caliber but only if you maintain the original upper and ability switch back afterward. If you sell the upper and switch permanently to a different upper then you would need to send a notification to the ATF letting them know of the official change. You don’t pay the stamp or go through the Form 1 process again, just a notification.



https://www.rainierarms.com/faq/sbr/

[TheRifleman]

Nice!! Thanks! Looks like 12.5 is back on the table again, boys.

[alamo5000]

Nice!! Thanks! Looks like 12.5 is back on the table again, boys.

I have had the thought of a 12.5 in the back of my mind as well, but at present I have many other projects and rifles that I don't shoot enough as is.

[TheRifleman]

I have had the thought of a 12.5 in the back of my mind as well, but at present I have many other projects and rifles that I don't shoot enough as is.

I have the Faxon 12.5 and the GLx 1-6 PA Griffin both on order, which were the last two pieces of this puzzle. However I am going to leave them as parts and not assemble until this recent buying scare is over. I want ammo in bulk enough to stash and also to shoot and weather it out between the scares, not occasional ammo at inflated prices. Worse case I wait. Not a bad first world problem to have though despite it all.

[usbp379]

Tinny sound but some interesting info.


https://youtu.be/4O9WR73BPYc?si=xlDquCQiLtfEO1WQ

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[usbp379]

Talking competition but still probably applicable to hunting or general rifle applications.


https://youtu.be/oShZcAdM90g?si=l-OVuntsCV1uyUHR

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[FortTom]

I think your second sentence really sums it up. All these 1000 yard cartridges... but who shoots at 1000 yards consistently or even has access to a range like that? That's a small subset of a small group. I think that's what really holds up these long range platforms.Sort of my thoughts too. I see a military application for it, but not much in it for me to build a rifle around it. I'm not a 650 to 1000 yard shooter, either..FT

[Former11B]

I keep going back and forth on 6ARC. Some days I really have talked myself into rebarreling a 5.56 rifle and going that route then other days I figure why get into a new caliber and I should really just spend the money upgrading and stockpiling for what I currently own

[FortTom]

I keep going back and forth on 6ARC. Some days I really have talked myself into rebarreling a 5.56 rifle and going that route then other days I figure why get into a new caliber and I should really just spend the money upgrading and stockpiling for what I currently ownI think in a couple of years when the newness wears off and the next big thing comes along you'll look back at that thing in the safe and be glad if you don't.FT

[TheRifleman]

These last two posts nailed it for me.

[usbp379]

I think in a couple of years when the newness wears off and the next big thing comes along you'll look back at that thing in the safe and be glad if you don't.FTTrue but also sometimes it is fun to mess with new stuff. That's why it is called a hobby.

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[FortTom]

True but also sometimes it is fun to mess with new stuff. That's why it is called a hobby. Sent from my SM-G970U using TapatalkYep.....

[alamo5000]

I keep going back and forth on 6ARC. Some days I really have talked myself into rebarreling a 5.56 rifle and going that route then other days I figure why get into a new caliber and I should really just spend the money upgrading and stockpiling for what I currently own

With 95% of the stuff I look at it comes back down to this exact same thing. With the 6 ARC though, at least for me, it fills a huge hole in the line up. For the longest time I was plotting out doing a .308 build but that kept getting pushed back for a whole host of reasons. Eventually when I was in a position to realistically purchase something the 6 ARC was out.

To me it fits perfectly into my line up. By that I mean I try to build rifles with a specific purpose and I didn't have anything in that area of performance. Also I have parts compatibility with everything which the planner/prepper side of me likes a lot. I did buy a couple of spare bolts from the get go (not the whole carrier) just in case...but aside from that it is all standard stuff.

While I do like that area of performance of the cartridge itself, but for me that's not the only reason I got into it. It does check those boxes, but it ALSO checks the other ones that are more logistically related too.

Plus the outlay of initial cost was overall less going with the ARC vs something bigger and the recurring cost is much less as well. Even things like having to buy tools to work on the thing(s) was considered... nobody thinks about that usually.

For me it was a no brainer when I looked at in the sum total of what I got vs trying to build something in 6.5 or .308.

[Former11B]

It would be practical in terms of a lightweight 6mm semi auto build I could hunt with but I think a lightweight .308 like a Bergara B14 Ridge Carbon and a Leupold VX6HD is calling my name instead

[Joelski]

I keep going back and forth on 6ARC. Some days I really have talked myself into rebarreling a 5.56 rifle and going that route then other days I figure why get into a new caliber and I should really just spend the money upgrading and stockpiling for what I currently own

This, and Rich’s point to a tee. Who needs another mouth to feed.Im still having trouble justifying a 6.5 CM upper for my AR-308 when I can shoot moa with what I have and where I mostly shoot. The upgrade industry is having less influence on me to run out and get the latest, greatest thing; I win!

[TheRifleman]

This, and Rich’s point to a tee. Who needs another mouth to feed.Im still having trouble justifying a 6.5 CM upper for my AR-308 when I can shoot moa with what I have and where I mostly shoot. The upgrade industry is having less influence on me to run out and get the latest, greatest thing; I win!

^^ all of that.

I'm reducing my 308 usage to just one rifle for it and every time I come around to thinking that 5.56 isn't enough, I go ahead and do a recce rifle course, a gas gun PR match, or thin some yotes and realize that my decision making was being influenced by those that are either fans of or trying to be influencers themselves. I'm not saying new things are bad because in reality they are not. But for what I already have and am feeding, it's just smarter especially in today's economy to just stick with what I already have that's in a modern platform.

And I too am finding the more I'm away from YT, TOS, or arf and even Insta to an extent, the less I am being grifted IMO.

I honestly wish 6 ARC to succeed but it's just not for me currently the more I thought about it.

[alamo5000]

This, and Rich’s point to a tee. Who needs another mouth to feed.Im still having trouble justifying a 6.5 CM upper for my AR-308 when I can shoot moa with what I have and where I mostly shoot. The upgrade industry is having less influence on me to run out and get the latest, greatest thing; I win!

That's another thing that went into the plus column for the 6ARC.

I literally have probably 50-60lbs of powder (or maybe more than that) that is 100% interchangeable with .223 and the 6 ARC. Same with primers.

The 6 ARC just fit in seamlessly with almost everything I already had logistically speaking. So in that regard my choice in some ways didn't hing at all on proving how ballistically superior X is to Y.

For me it was really obvious that it was a good way to solve a problem in my lineup.

[Former11B]

That's another thing that went into the plus column for the 6ARC.

I literally have probably 50-60lbs of powder (or maybe more than that) that is 100% interchangeable with .223 and the 6 ARC. Same with primers.

The 6 ARC just fit in seamlessly with almost everything I already had logistically speaking. So in that regard my choice in some ways didn't hing at all on proving how ballistically superior X is to Y.

For me it was really obvious that it was a good way to solve a problem in my lineup.

Same with my .308 and .223. Varget, RE15, 2000MR, TAC, CFE…

And if I got small primer 308 brass I’d have that covered too

[Joelski]

That's another thing that went into the plus column for the 6ARC.

I literally have probably 50-60lbs of powder (or maybe more than that) that is 100% interchangeable with .223 and the 6 ARC. Same with primers.

The 6 ARC just fit in seamlessly with almost everything I already had logistically speaking. So in that regard my choice in some ways didn't hing at all on proving how ballistically superior X is to Y.

For me it was really obvious that it was a good way to solve a problem in my lineup.

Oh, it 100% makes sense for you, as a reloader to experiment. It’s just steep for me whether I buy off the shelf, or take up reloading. I’ve been on that fence so long I’ve decided I’m just too damn old to take on the frustration of multiple learning curves.

[FortTom]

I’m just too damn old ........... Yeah, that's it...[:D]

[Joelski]

Hey now!

[usbp379]

On closeout if anyone wants a short barrel.

https://faxonfirearms.com/faxon-match-series-12-5-gunner-6mm-arc-carbine-length-416r-nitride-5r-nickel-teflon-extension-1-7-5-twist-ar-15-barrel/

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[usbp379]

A bit more info on the 6mm Max.


https://youtu.be/9KbVlksZy7A?si=YosdTQ5eIxGs3Rrx

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[usbp379]

Geissele showed this at 2023 Show. It may actually be ready in 2024? He says shipping this week...

They talk about the 6 ARC right after the new AK trigger.


https://youtu.be/Sr0ceiYDeDw?si=hjjPPvShjJMspoFO

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[FortTom]

I know it's just my opinion, not worth much, but , yaaaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnn. Really lost my interest at 80 bucks a mag. I'm sure it's top quality, but just doesn't really fill any particular need, that I could forsee. But if it tickles your fancy, by all means go for it bro!

[BoilerUp]

I know it's just my opinion, not worth much, but , yaaaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnn. Really lost my interest at 80 bucks a mag. I'm sure it's top quality, but just doesn't really fill any particular need, that I could forsee. But if it tickles your fancy, by all means go for it bro!

I'm kind of there, too. The fact that G turned the AR into a proprietary system to get the 6ARC to perform optimally turns me off to both the rifle and the caliber.

[TheRifleman]

It's an appeal to the hunters among us, and the PRS folk that coincide with us as well. But if it's not our thing, then eh more stuff those whom are to buy.

Plus I cannot find any reason to give up on using either Mk262 clones or 308 in any variation either.

On another note, what killed both 45 and 40 is the price. Even with the joeflation, 5.56 is still cheaper even in some cases 308 over 6 ARC.

[alamo5000]

I'm kind of there, too. The fact that G turned the AR into a proprietary system to get the 6ARC to perform optimally turns me off to both the rifle and the caliber.

What does 'optimally' mean? I am generally not involved in the caliber wars but in this specific case this stuff from G is probably aimed at a very narrow type of user, not just a regular guy that shoots a lot.

For me none of the stuff mentioned in the video is attractive to me, especially in the sense of 'gaining performance'.

In other words I think they are aiming specifically for some type of government contract or something.

More than likely most of the stuff would not add much for the average civilian. Other than having bragging rights it not something of interest to me, especially in how I shoot this particular round.

[usbp379]

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2024/01/22/sons-liberty-gunworks-debuts-6mm-max-ar-cartridge-l89-zero-shift-handguard-shot-2024/

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[usbp379]

https://youtu.be/alr762Siajs?si=fidJG3qELvR2AtCs

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[FortTom]

cool post!