Handgun Upgrades

[alamo5000]

I am becoming tempted to try out an RDS on my pistol so I am wondering other people's experience with it. Whether that be with just RDS (on pistols) in general or specific things to the product(s) I am considering please share.

Keep in mind that (for me) this is at a minimum of a $300 'experiment' just to see if I like it or not. Hence I am trying to put some more thought into it before I go all in.

My carry pistol is a Sig 365XL so it already has an optic cut. Thank goodness I don't have to think about getting it cut etc.

The first optic that I am considering is the Holosun 507K. From what I gather this optic fits my gun no problem. No conversion plate needed.

The second one I am considering is the new Trijicon CC model. That's the one that I REALLY want but it's more than twice the cost. The guys at Maple Leaf Firearms confirmed that soon they will have a plate to make that conversion. I am not sure if having the optic slightly higher to the bore will make any difference or not.

This general overall subject is the main area of discussion that I am asking for.

That said I do have another angle to throw into the mix.

For a long time I have wanted a good light for my carry pistol. The new Surefire XSC is definitely my number one choice. They don't have very many holsters yet for my gun/light combo so this is a secondary thing (for now).

That said how do handgun RDS interact with weapons lights? I know many of the RDS have an auto function so if that is say under my shirt and auto adjusts to think it's night time how quickly will it react to being drawn in the day time (waking up and adjusting both)? I am asking a rather technical question in the context of how something similar (flipping on a weapons light) might impact dot visibility or acquisition.

Overall though, for those of you that shoot red dot handguns how do you like it and what advice would you give just in general to adapting to a red dot having never used one before? Is there any kind of significant advantage to it in your view?

All in all if I consider the light, a new holster, and the Trijicon optic, I am well over $1000 bucks in which is a lot more than I paid for the gun to start with...so big picture I am measuring before I cut.

[Jerry R]

Wish I could be more help with details on some of your, very good, questions. I put a Leupold DeltaPoint on a Gen-4 Glock 21. I did it pretty much for the same reason you are considering it ... "will I like it?"

The RDS I'm using does not adjust for daylight or dark, so works reasonably well with a light, the dot does not wash out when set to a medium brightness.

I have mixed emotions on the pairing.

The one advantage that I see is that it seems to work very well with gross motor skills for fast acquisition of center-mass shots "from the leather". Accuracy on small targets (third shirt button down) using fine motor skills is taking a lot of practice for me. I like the "two eyes open / look at the target, not the dot" method, as it helps me stay on target. I have, occasionally, won the dueling tree with it; but not as often as with an iron-sighted 1911. Not to disparage the RDS Glock, just more rounds down range with the older platform.

I guess, would I do it again? Yes. Would I carry it? No, not without a lot more practice.

Will be following to see the advice from some of the regular users/professionals that carry a setup daily.

[Deadwing]

I have two handguns with red dots: a Ruger Mark IV with a Vortex Viper and a FN FNX-45 Tactical with a Trijicon RMR. My experience with red dots on pistols is similar to Jerry's. I find i can get on target quickly, but i'm not going to win any bullseye matches with them. The 6 MOA dots aren't great for precision shooting and i find i'm a better shot with irons on other pistols. But i also have done a lot more shooting with the pistols i'm better with. I wear glasses with progressive lenses and it's definitely easier to find the dot and focus on the target than it is trying to get irons lined up in the sweet spot in the focal range of my glasses. All in all, i like shooting pistols with red dots. There's definitely a learning curve, but i'll definitely equip more pistols with red dots in the future.

[gatordev]

A RDS isn't going to be a panacea when you first start using it. It will take a bit of practice to get comfortable with it. I initially didn't like a red dot as it took too long to find and cost more money to configure the weapon (both optic and optic cut).

My initial foray into a RDS was with a T1, which required no smithing to my Glock and I already had the optic. I found the tube to be easier to use and find the dot than a prism system. As I continued to practice with it, I really grew to appreciate the RDS concept. I found I became more accurate with follow up shots (to a point), and not having to find the front sight was much easier on the eyes. Once I became a RDS cripple, I found some reasons to go back to a RMR-type setup and have been spending my shooting time with that the last 6 months or so. One way to learn how to find the dot quicker with a RMR-style is to not look for the dot, but start to find and align the sights. They don't have to be perfect, but as they come into view, so will the dot and you can transition to it.

I find not only am I more accurate with a dot (be it a 2 MOA or a 3.25 MOA dot), but it also has made me a better shooter in seeing the errors I'm imparting into the gun when shooting. I don't mean the dot twitching around when it's on target. Instead I mean seeing where the dot goes at the trigger press. It helps diagnose errors you're putting into the gun and also helps with "calling shots" an knowing if it went where you think it did...no different with a rifle, but more sensitive. I spent a lot of time on a B8 at 25y using a dot to narrow down why I couldn't break 90 consistently. It was a big help, and a laser training gun wouldn't have shown what I was screwing up.

As for which one, the Holosun seems to have great reviews. I haven't personally looked through one, but have used an old Docter and regularly use a RMR. The RMR has the one issue of needing to be rezeroed after every battery change, but it's not like you're starting from scratch and it doesn't take that many rounds to rezero it. The Holosun doesn't have that issue.

One thing I have found with a lot of mini-RDSes is the coating can cause ghosting of the dot when the sun hits the lens from certain angles. I've seen it happen with a Delta Point, where 5 dots appeared on the lens because of how the prism was catching the sun light. The Docter did this as well. The RMR coating eliminates most of this ghosting, so you might get a slight secondary dot, but the primary dot is clearly the one to use when that happens. I haven't been able to see if that happens with the 507. This may not be an issue for you, but at the range I shoot at, one of the primary firing directions is into the sun in the first half of the day, so depending on the time of year, it happens regularly. Another reason I'm happy with the RMR, since this isn't really an issue.

Sounds like the 507 may be the answer for you for now. Lower cost to entry and it has a RMR foot-print, which everyone knows how to cut in slides.

[alamo5000]

I find not only am I more accurate with a dot (be it a 2 MOA or a 3.25 MOA dot), but it also has made me a better shooter in seeing the errors I'm imparting into the gun when shooting. I don't mean the dot twitching around when it's on target. Instead I mean seeing where the dot goes at the trigger press. It helps diagnose errors you're putting into the gun and also helps with "calling shots" an knowing if it went where you think it did...no different with a rifle, but more sensitive.
--
Sounds like the 507 may be the answer for you for now. Lower cost to entry and it has a RMR foot-print, which everyone knows how to cut in slides.

You made a lot of great points there. The first one I quoted I've thought about before. It might help me to self diagnose what's wrong so that I can improve.

Other things that attract me to it are the two eyes open thing that I have grown to like (a lot) when shooting ARs. Seeing how my carry pistol is primarily for defensive use being situationally aware and being able to pick up the dot faster seems like a win win.

Another thing (for me) is I don't need to risk milling out my slide only to find that I hate it. My pistol came from the factory optic cut ready so in a worst case scenario I could put my rear sight back on and not have to worry. I also don't have to reconfigure my holster either (like I will when I ultimately get that light I am after). I can pretty much run with it right out of the box.

The 507K is right about $300 bucks so that's kind of what I am going to have to pony up at first to see if I like running a RDS or not. That said I am pretty sure a 2MOA dot would be enough but who knows. 6MOA seems a bit much but I have zero experience. I know with my rifle RDS I can pick those up just fine and they are definitely not 6MOA.

I guess at the end of the day at worst I would be out of pocket $300 ish bucks. If I practice with it and come to really like it I can then upgrade.

As for now pretty much everything is OOS but I don't mind waiting. I am not looking to pay a premium for something like this just to get it 'right now'.

Who knows... over the next few months if I see one in stock I might splurge buy. The Holosun 507K isn't any slouch from what I've read as well. I'm kind of leaning that way simply because of all the unknowns. Plus the Trijicon is so new there is almost nothing out there yet (even Trijicon hasn't released it's adapter plate to Sig 365XL yet). Basically either way this idea is going to marinate for a while but on the surface it seems like it might be a good deal.

That said I could possibly find a gun range that will rent me a RDS equipped pistol. One hour with that (regardless of the type or brand) and it will answer a ton of lingering questions.

[BoilerUp]

Keep in mind that your 2 MOA dots on a carbine are usually at about 3 - 4' of eye relief. What's eye relief on a pistol? 2 feet? I believe that's why 6 MOA is more common in that application.

[UWone77]

I'm a huge fan of RDS on handguns. However, for me the learning curve was steep. You have to train yourself to look for that dot. I find I have to cant the gun down slightly. Took probably 3k+ rounds for me to get somewhat competent. The groups however, if that's your thing, will significantly tighten up. I prefer the RMR with the 6.5 MOA dot. I've used and shot the 3.5 MOA version and it's definitely harder to pick up the dot.

[Default.mp3]

Random thoughts and tidbits from someone who has been shooting exclusively with an RDS on pistols 2015:

Deltapoint Pro with the triangle may seem great in theory; zero with the tip and use that for precision, and just use the entire triangle when going fast. However, very few people actually seem to like that concept once they try shooting with it.

You can make a smaller dot appear bigger by cranking up the brightness, causing bloom.

Larger dot sizes seem to work better with auto-adjustments, as they are more forgiving of lighting conditions, particularly with WMLs.

Getting faster with first-round-shots with an RDS is simple: practice your draw and get a good index, which can be done dry. Just remember, simple does not mean easy. Once you get the draw down, now you have to work on SHO/WHO index, or positional stuff. You can use the irons as a crutch to get alignment at first, but you will eventually need to let go of that habit, as it will slow you down.

Learn to accept the wobble of the dot; there is no need for a perfect sight picture for most targets. Obviously, this goes into the same as the reading of your sights, as you would with irons, but many people are freaked out by the wobble and end up either being way too slow as they try to confirm a perfect sight picture or else they mash the trigger upon the dot hitting the part of the target they're aiming for, usually with poor results as they're unable to keep the gun still while doing so (there is nothing inherently wrong with the mashing the trigger, since there are very high level competition shooters that do it... they can just do it without disturbing the sights).

RDS-specific pistol classes are dumb. The fundamentals remain the same; would you sign up for an RDS-specific rifle class? To be sure, there are tricks and nuances to shooting an RDS handgun, but those can probably be covered in less than a half-hour, rather than being a 2 day class. I have spoken to Steve Fisher about this, one of the first people to offer RDS-specific classes, and he agrees, but continues to put on these classes simply because there is demand and he needs to fill classes.

I use my RDSes in manual mode always, in order to prevent washout with my WMLs (SureFire X400UHs). This does present some blooming issues when shooting at further distances at night, but it is what it is; I can still easily use it to hit the black on a B-8 at 25 if I needed to under speed, I just won't be confident of punching the X-ring like I would be during the day.

If need be, you can just use the sight picture through the optic as a crude ghost ring, whether that be for speed or because your RDS went down.

[alamo5000]

Thanks for all the responses so far. I am still learning obviously. Your responses have all helped.

So in general the 6 moa dot would be the one you guys recommend? Keep in mind this is not for shooting bullseye target matches but rather for concealed carry/self defense. I would weigh pros and cons in that context.

A 6 MOA dot seems huge. At 100 yards that's around 6 inches. At ten yards that however is .6 inches. I don't know about any of you guys, but shooting 1/2 inch groups with a handgun even at 7 yards is difficult to say the least, particularly in a concealed carry context. Basically my point is even though the dot seems 'huge' on paper... it's still more than accurate enough (beyond my capabilities at least). That said if it brings much faster target acquisition to the table as a pro I am all for it.

I will definitely think of some more questions to ask as I read through the responses and try to digest everything.

[gatordev]

A 6 MOA dot seems huge. At 100 yards that's around 6 inches. At ten yards that however is .6 inches. I don't know about any of you guys, but shooting 1/2 inch groups with a handgun even at 7 yards is difficult to say the least, particularly in a concealed carry context. Basically my point is even though the dot seems 'huge' on paper... it's still more than accurate enough (beyond my capabilities at least). That said if it brings much faster target acquisition to the table as a pro I am all for it.


It's not necessarily the same as how you're used to looking at a dot though. That's what BoilerUp was getting at. First, disclaimer, I don't have enough experience with bigger dots to weigh in on that decision. But from the math stand point, let's say your target is 33yd away (just to make the math easy...it's close enough to 25y for the example). That 6 MOA dot is now 2". BUT, the dot size itself is smaller because the dot is farther away from your eye. Yes, that 6 MOA dot is still covering a 2" cone, but your eye may perceive it smaller than what a 6 MOA dot would look like on a rifle.

Again, my experience is strictly range use, but for me and my 2-3 MOA dot, I do what Default.mp3 mentioned and just turn my dot up if I need it "bigger." When I'm doing dedicated warmup B8s just to work fundamentals, then I turn it way down.

I'll defer to those with more real-world trigger time on how that translates to other uses.

[BoilerUp]

https://youtu.be/AyjA_DPWrGE

[alamo5000]

Thanks for the video Boilerup. That was a good one. I watched several of his and a BUNCH from Aaron Cowan as well. I am going to link them below (the three I feel are the most valuable) just in case someone has the same questions in the future the resources will be all in one place hopefully.

It's important to note that John and Aaron do not agree on dot size. John says he likes the smaller dots and Aaron likes the bigger ones.

I found another video too (the fourth one) from a different source that is also valuable in my view.

This video immediately below about the pros and cons... I think that is my main reason for wanting to get into red dots. Heads up, eyes open, threat focused to me is my primary motivation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtT4dd392wI&t=23

[alamo5000]

This video is from a competition shooter I think. I have no idea who he is but the video has valuable information at least for me at the stage I am at.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JME0bspCjI

[alamo5000]

This is the one where Aaron says he likes the bigger dots.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBE8h1vDitI

[Default.mp3]

I will say I don't care particularly for some of Cowan's preferences, particularly his argument about rear sight placement, which to me smacks of catering to the LCD.

[alamo5000]

I will say I don't care particularly for some of Cowan's preferences, particularly his argument about rear sight placement, which to me smacks of catering to the LCD.

To me it's merely a reference point, or rather a point of interest. I have zero experience shooting RDS pistols. Cowan has hundreds if not thousands of hours behind them.

Does that mean his preferences are right (for me)...no. But it does give me something to consider. If I go the other direction at least I will be in good company (with John Lovell).

Some things it might not be OK to question the facts, but in this case it definitely seems like a lot of opinion or preference.

[Default.mp3]

Another thing that people always say is that "tint doesn't matter", particularly in reference to the RMRs, with argument that you're being target focused, so you're just superimposing the dot over the target image, so the view through the RDS doesn't matter. I would argue that is absolutely false, that the tint can have an impact on your shooting performance for many people. Now, IME, it only manifests itself in certain conditions, mainly in low-light against small targets, particularly if there is low contrast between the target and the background and/or your lenses are all scratched up; the problem is that the superimposing of the image confuses the brain due to the discrepancy between the images; in something like an OEG, the dot is against a plain black slate, so it's easy to disentangle the plain black against the target, but when it's two similar images not quite lining up, it can definitely slow you down, as you try to reconcile exactly what your dot is aiming at. Is this a major issue, enough for me to not recommend the RMR? Not at all (I would still be on the RMR if I weren't on the ACROs), but it is a nuance to be aware of in a defensive application.

[mustangfreek]

I want a holosun or deltpoint to try out. I like the idea of the bigger window..Never shot any rds handguns and Kinda bored with irons and want to try out one on the one slide I got for a rmr footprint rds.

[alamo5000]

Follow up question...for those running red dots how important is it to have back up irons or to be able to cowitness your irons with the optic?

[Default.mp3]

Follow up question...for those running red dots how important is it to have back up irons or to be able to cowitness your irons with the optic?I believe it is absolutely paramount to have useable irons on any gun you plan to use for duty or self-defense. Co-witness, on the other hand, is overrated; I would actually see absolute co-witness as a negative, as it would obstruct much of the RDS, while one-third would be something of a nice compromise.

[alamo5000]

I bought an optic for my 365XL finally but I wanted to go over it here a bit more about "why". Who knows. It might help some random person out there in the future some day.

Price wasn't a deciding factor for me at all. I am a firm believer in buying quality even if it's a few bucks more.

Originally I was intent on getting the RMRCC but today I stopped by a store and was able to handle a few optics with various dot sizes. In about 10 minutes I went from having one notion in my head to wiping that notion out fairly quickly.

Although I didn't compare exact models I got a good enough feel for what I was getting.

I decided on the Holosun 507k X2.

Why? For one it actually fits the footprint of my slide cut and will sit lower than an optic raised on a plate. It also has some very rudimentary rear notches on the optic itself that will allow some form of Co witness. It might not be much but it's certainly better than zero.

The 32 MOA ring I thought I would hate it. Turns out that is one of the best things about it. Boy was I wrong (and reserve the right to be wrong in the future as well). Compared to a 3 MOA dot it was night and day easier on the eyes to pick up. 32 MOA at 100 yards is 32 inches. At 50 it's 16 inches. At 25 it's 8 inches. And at 12 yards it's 4 inches.

I don't know about other people but 95% of your average shooters won't hold a 4 inch group at 12 yards with a pistol.

What's more is you have 3 reticle options. In the center of the circle there is a 2 MOA dot for fine tuning. You have the option of any of the three. Circle with the dot, circle with no dot, and dot only. For a learner options are good.

Also for tired eyes bigger did seem to be better. Tired eyes are about half of the reason why I am going with a dot anyway.

The illumination seemed very strong as in daylight bright which is also a big deal.

You also don't have to remove the optic to replace the battery. This is a big deal. I can carry a spare battery in my car or whatever so no big deal. Plus the cowitness with irons is still available at least somewhat. Probably not perfect but better than zero.

Overall I also think the construction was quite good. I was admittedly thinking it might be made of chineseium grade pot metal but what I handled would easily handle what I typically do during the day. Definitely not duty work unless you count typing as "duty".

Taking the time to put hands on some dots was really eye opening though. I'm glad I did and now I am more confident in my purchase.

[alamo5000]

Got my dot today. I think I made the right choice. I got it installed and zeroed. I don't really know what distance to zero at so I got it fairly on point at 25 yards. Then I moved up to the 10 yard line and was able to be very precise with it. I also like that I still have some form of back up irons if ever needed. Any other tips or advice would be welcome.

I plan to get some anti fog and put it on the glass but aside from that it's just a matter of practicing more.

[gatordev]

I zero mine at 25y. It's close enough at 50y on a B/C target that I'm not really thinking about it and is pretty much POA/POI all the way in to something stupidly close. Height over bore doesn't really seem to be an issue like an AR, although I'm shooting it on a Glock, which is going to put the optic closer to the barrel.

[alamo5000]

I zero mine at 25y. It's close enough at 50y on a B/C target that I'm not really thinking about it and is pretty much POA/POI all the way in to something stupidly close. Height over bore doesn't really seem to be an issue like an AR, although I'm shooting it on a Glock, which is going to put the optic closer to the barrel.

At 25 yards I was getting hits all over the place so it was hard to tell if it was shooter error or something else. My gun is the 365xl so not exactly a long range shooter. After I got that 25 yard zero about as good as I could get it I moved in just to practice with it and to shoot with it more. I also shot a mag of my actual carry ammo to make sure that it wasn't wildly off.

Put it this way... I was aiming at that little 1/2 inch square used to to hang the plate up with and I put 5 rounds right on top of it. I was able to be a lot more accurate when I took my time. Who knows, maybe it was just luck. But so far I am glad I made my choice.

[alamo5000]

I will go back out on another day and get back at the 25 yard line and try to make some hits and see what I get. I was kind of in a hurry today because I wanted to get a zero and play with it while I had the time on a day off. Now that I it's mounted up and I have a fair zero the next time I can go work on techniques or whatever.

[Former11B]

A friend installed a Holosun 509T on his competition Glock. There was more distortion in the lens than I was expecting
However, zeroing it at 30yards made a plate rack a breeze. Could put rounds whenever I wanted on the plates, left, right, or center. Also we were shooting a 50% IPSC at 100yds no problem

I need to get a 17 MOS or something and look into an Micro red dot of some type for it. The list goes on [:D]

[Joelski]

I'm looking at the ZEV Omen slide for my 19 (If it's ever in stock anywhere). Any reason to buy the stock MOS over it?

[UWone77]

I'm looking at the ZEV Omen slide for my 19 (If it's ever in stock anywhere). Any reason to buy the stock MOS over it?

Yeah all I've seen are G17 Omens. Good looking slide!

[mustangfreek]

What gen ? I see the gen 5 g19 omen slides available

[alamo5000]

A friend installed a Holosun 509T on his competition Glock. There was more distortion in the lens than I was expecting
However, zeroing it at 30yards made a plate rack a breeze. Could put rounds whenever I wanted on the plates, left, right, or center. Also we were shooting a 50% IPSC at 100yds no problem

I need to get a 17 MOS or something and look into an Micro red dot of some type for it. The list goes on [:D]

The shiny new car smell hasn't even worn off mine yet. I am definitely still digging it. In a month or two I will have a more informed opinion but so far I can be substantially more accurate with mine.

[Joelski]

What gen ? I see the gen 5 g19 omen slides available

Where are you seeing these?

[mustangfreek]

Where are you seeing these?

From the source..[noob][BD]

https://www.zevtechnologies.com/z17-omen-stripped-slide-with-rmr-plate-5th-gen-gray

[FortTom]

I'm a huge fan of RDS on handguns. However, for me the learning curve was steep. You have to train yourself to look for that dot. I find I have to cant the gun down slightly. Took probably 3k+ rounds for me to get somewhat competent. The groups however, if that's your thing, will significantly tighten up. I prefer the RMR with the 6.5 MOA dot. I've used and shot the 3.5 MOA version and it's definitely harder to pick up the dot.

I found the learning curve to be steep also. Finally decided it just wasn't for me, personally. No telling how you'll like it. Just hold your breath and try it and hope you find it the coolest thing since sliced bread.

FT[:D]

[UWone77]

From the source..[noob][BD]

https://www.zevtechnologies.com/z17-omen-stripped-slide-with-rmr-plate-5th-gen-gray

You're spicy today... but those are G17 slides, I think Joel wanted G19 ones.

[mustangfreek]

Oops...shit I just seen them on there..maybe they pulled them?

[alamo5000]

Question for the masses. What has been your general experience with handgun compensators? Work? Don't work? Marginal? Great?

[Joelski]

From the source..[noob][BD]

https://www.zevtechnologies.com/z17-omen-stripped-slide-with-rmr-plate-5th-gen-gray

I should have said BLACK. Back to looking...

[Joelski]

Question for the masses. What has been your general experience with handgun compensators? Work? Don't work? Marginal? Great?

Ghey. Buy a long slide, or a race gun.

[Default.mp3]

Question for the masses. What has been your general experience with handgun compensators? Work? Don't work? Marginal? Great?They definitely do work, at the expense of window of reliability, along with the potential to be pushed out of battery more easily when doing retention shooting, and the dangerous redirection of hot gasses when retention shooting.

For a good two-handed grip, performance is not particularly noticeably improved, IME, though it'll allow you to put more rounds down range through the day before you feel tired. It does help a fair bit more with SHO/WHO.

This is all assuming you're talking about carry comps, like on a Roland Special. Straight up multi-port competition comps are extremely effective.

[UWone77]

Comps are fun to shoot, but for practical purposes, other than a range toy, or maybe competition, I don't see them being part of my EDC. Besides, I'm confident in my abilities with a RDS equipped pistol, and 9mm doesn't need to be comped.

[alamo5000]

Thanks for those replies. I had a case of the insomnia last night so I did an impulse buy. I bought a Griffin threaded barrel that comes with their micro carry comp at a really good deal. I didn't even know they made them to be honest until last night.

Anyway I will drop it in and run it for a while during practice sessions to confirm full functionality over time. Curiosity got the better of me to be honest.

Hopefully surefire will start delivering their new lights (the XSC) within the next few weeks or whatever. They are slow as hell and I am not very patient.

[alamo5000]

It does help a fair bit more with SHO/WHO.

My acronym is weak today.

[alamo5000]

Expanding a bit on my thought process for good or bad. If something is wrong or you don't agree with it please point out why (so I can learn). Nobody learns by agreeing 100% of the time.

I agree that 9mm is not a monster that needs to be comp'ed. But what I thought about was the total system.

A 9mm out of my 226 is easily controlled but out of a P365XL the gun is substantially smaller and lighter. Basically big heavy gun vs small light gun.

On the videos I watched before buying it says it will reduce felt recoil/flip by around 30%. I don't know what size gun that is on though. That's pretty substantial if it turns out to be true, but I say that in the context of carrying a small gun which are inherently more snappy because of physics.

Plus that comp is really not much bigger that a thread protector. There is very little penalty for the most part.

Just the little comp thing is normally around $60 but I got a threaded barrel and a comp both for around $150 brand new.

I figured why not scratch my curiosity itch and see if it works or not.

Even if I don't carry it I possibly could shoot my 365XL suppressed from time to time. At least it would be an option.

[alamo5000]

I bought a comp that threads onto the cam lok muzzle device and I tried it out for myself. I personally like it a lot. I can definitely see how some comps might be a pain in the ass or literally over compensate but that one... I like it. Now it's time for me to try out the little one for my carry gun. It won't get here until Friday though but if it works like the one I got a day or two ago it will be a keeper.

After I get used to the optic on my carry gun I am now seriously considering getting my slide cut for my P226. It never ends man. It never ends.

[BoilerUp]

Alamo, are you running the Griffin barrel and micro comp on your 365XL? I got that set up from a DVOR sale and gave it a spin today (365XL with Romeo 0). It wouldn't feed reliability, presumable because it dampens recoil enough to cause it to "short stroke", so I think I'd need a lighter recoil spring. I'm curious if anyone else has had that experience with the Griffin Micro Comps or similar setups.

[alamo5000]

Alamo, are you running the Griffin barrel and micro comp on your 365XL? I got that set up from a DVOR sale and gave it a spin today (365XL with Romeo 0). It wouldn't feed reliability, presumable because it dampens recoil enough to cause it to "short stroke", so I think I'd need a lighter recoil spring. I'm curious if anyone else has had that experience with the Griffin Micro Comps or similar setups.

I tried it out but that barrel isn't part of my EDC primarily because of the holster situation. That being I don't want to buy yet another holster. But who knows. I might buy one just because but it's not a priority.

I still have the barrel and comp though. I never had a single issue with it in mine. Not anything that I can recall at least. I can drop the barrel in and shoot it again tomorrow and I am pretty sure it will run just fine.

Traditionally with a carry gun they usually are the least shot pistols, at least for me. But with my XL it's not that way at all. It's a much more shootable gun, even for fun 'range trips' (which for me consists of getting slightly off the back porch). That said I did some 'custom work' to my pistol. I changed out the trigger and some other springs and such as well as adding an optic, etc. I think it's way better than just off the rack, especially the trigger upgrade that I did.

I say all that to say I didn't just shoot a mag or two through my pistol and call it good. I shot no less than probably 2,000 rounds through it just to confirm everything just during that time frame alone, and that included the Griffin barrel and comp. I probably shot no less than 500 rounds with the comp and didn't have any problem that I can recall. I would shoot a few mags with the regular barrel and then swap it to the Griffin one and shoot a few mags, just to see what the big deal was about comps. I did that across multiple days and I don't think I had a single issue with the gun or anything.

(Yes I can definitively say that comps are effective BTW)

Can I ask what type/grain of ammo you were shooting? If it were me I would think that might have something to do with it. I don't have any 115 grain at all. I have only ever ran 124 grain through my 365XL. I pretty much try to make my practice ammo mimic my target ammo, but who knows.

[BoilerUp]

interesting, thanks. I was shooting Geco 124gr.

Edit: I'll take it back out and run some Speer Gold Dot and see what it does with the ammo that matters.

[alamo5000]

I have been trying out various things on my carry gun (365XL). Basically I wanted to update what has been done so far and my general impression of the changes.

In no order:

1. A long time ago I swapped the stock trigger out for a Grayguns flat, adjustable trigger. While doing this I also replaced the springs with a set from MCarbo. I know that changing ANYTHING on the guts of especially a carry gun is a big risk. That said, it was a great improvement. I also have at least 2-3K rounds on it since that upgrade, and maybe more. Needless to say it's been reliable, but also a big improvement. I think I had two stoppages in that entire time and both were definitely ammo related (IE solid primer strike but no bang).

Installing the trigger and especially the springs was probably a 6/10 on the difficulty scale. In other words it was a moderate pain in the ass but not horrible by any means.

2. Quite a while ago I bought a threaded Griffin barrel for the 365XL that included the micro comp. I tested it and liked it, but I didn't have a holster for it at the time so I put it aside with the intent to revisit it at a later date. That later date got here and I can say with certainty that it is far superior to the factory barrel. I don't really measure groups for handguns especially, but the difference between the factory barrel and that one was huge. Same day, same shooter, same ammo, multiple tests and re-tests and it was like 1/3 or less the 'group size' at 15 yards. Honestly I was starting to think that either I was not 'as good of a shot' with that gun...but a heads up, side by side comparison gave me massively different results. Also having a comp is just a bonus. It does work. I was skeptical at first about comps in general, but I tested the comp aspect repeatedly over time and yes it works and I am liking it more and more. Also with the Griffin barrel I have had 100% reliability with various ammo including Federal 124gr HST.

Side note, this also allows me to shoot suppressed if I want to. The other day I went to just see if it would work as a suppressor host and it worked great. Not that I will shoot that pistol all the time with a suppressor, but it's definitely nice to have options. Plus if I want to plink around in the back yard I can get a lot more trigger time on that gun, which is a good thing.

3. When I first got my 365XL there was quite a learning curve. Getting used to the gun--and a red dot-- took time and effort. One thing that I didn't like about the gun though was the grip was TOO skinny. I solved that problem using a Hogue grip sleeve. It was a big improvement and helped a lot. Flash forward and I was hearing about after market grip modules and particularly the one from Wilson Combat.

Long story short--this is one thing that is hands down a 10/10. Absolutely get a Wilson Combat grip module. The texture onto simply everything about it is just about perfect. This grip module also has the option to add some tungsten weights in the grip portion. I bought my set from Armory Craft. I can't say one way or another about the weights yet, but overall they do seem to help in a subtle kind of way. If I decide I don't want them I can always take them out, but I don't think it will happen.

4. When I was buying the grip module and tungsten weights I threw and extended mag release in the cart too. I was just curious about it so why not try? Anyway this is actually a surprisingly good upgrade. It's not some ridiculously oversized mag release, but it really does feel better and aid in better gun manipulations. The one I got is textured, but also taller. I would recommend that as well. It was quite surprising that one little part made that kind of impression on me.

5. The next thing I did was swap my Holosun 507K-X2 over to a different gun and replaced it with the new EPS Carry from Holosun. At least to me there were never any problems with the 507K-X2, with the exception of over time it does get dirtier especially on the inside of the lens. Overall I am glad I switched.

6. I ran a Surefire XSC since they were pretty much introduced, but after trying the Sig specific option from Streamlight I switched. I never had a problem with the Surefire, but I like the Streamlight better for a few reasons, including I like that the battery isn't some proprietary thing. One 'issue' that did irritate me about the Surefire is if you just plug the battery into the light it will have battery drain in not a long time even if you are not using the light. Those CR123 batteries just have a lot more juice and they last quite a long time. There are some other things I like better too.

Anyway I got a new holster (again), but I guess it's worth it because I am more than pleased with what I am running as a package.

[alamo5000]

I did one more upgrade... I installed a Titanium Striker.

It actually made a difference. The trigger pull and break is now even better.

The logic behind this isn't for anything like overall weight saving or whatever. That said the Titanium Striker is according to the manufacturer 35% lighter than the factory striker. With that in mind, the general concept is to gain 'striker velocity' and thus eliminate light primer strikes while being able to use a lighter striker spring and still maintaining maximum reliability.

Without getting off into the weeds too much, the standard trigger pull on a stock 365XL is 'ok' but it can be improved upon quite a lot. It's somewhere around 6-7ish pounds and is sort of mushy. The spring kit mentioned above did a substantial amount to help the overall trigger pull. The striker has improved upon this a lot.

Right now a rough estimate is it breaks around 4ish pounds and its substantially less mushy and has a much more crisp break. The totality of my upgrades surrounding this (the trigger itself, the spring kit, and now the Titanium Striker) are an excellent combination.

[TheRifleman]

My first optics gun bought for the intention of adding a red dot was the G45 MOS. Mounted to an FCD MOS plate for the RMR, it was very, very hard for me to miss once sighted in. I've since replaced the RMR Type 2 6.5 with an Aimpoint ACRO P2.

I liked the red dot on top of my G45 so much that I sold my G43X and replaced with a G43X MOS and have added the RMRcc to it. I'm now a fan. I want to red dot all of my pistols now. Just not my Sigs or 1911. Probably going to do my G17 Gen 5 with an MOS cut by Battlewerx next or my VP9 with a factory OR slide from HK.

[BoilerUp]

My first optics gun bought for the intention of adding a red dot was the G45 MOS. Mounted to an FCD MOS plate for the RMR, it was very, very hard for me to miss once sighted in. I've since replaced the RMR Type 2 6.5 with an Aimpoint ACRO P2.

I liked the red dot on top of my G45 so much that I sold my G43X and replaced with a G43X MOS and have added the RMRcc to it. I'm now a fan. I want to red dot all of my pistols now. Just not my Sigs or 1911. Probably going to do my G17 Gen 5 with an MOS cut by Battlewerx next or my VP9 with a factory OR slide from HK.

I think I'm getting there, too. Put the RMR on a G19 Gen5 MOS and love it. Now looking at upgrading the rest. I think I'll stick with RMR, although I put an SRO on a 34/long slide build that's just a range toy but tons of fun