Do any charging handles do a better job then others?

[mustangfreek]

I thought there was a thread here about this, but didn’t see one.

I get the general consensus That ARs are gassy, well I’d like to “better” what I can and play with different CH’s. I get the silicone trick, but I’m skipping that for now..[BD]

So what ch’s you guys using that are an improvement in blowback

Are the raptor sds worth it over say a Geissele ach/sch?

[Joelski]

Wear your mask. [;)]

Seriously, I don't think there's been much movement since the PRI Gasbuster/silicone combination. If I'm wrong, I'd like to hear about it, too.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

I haven't done a ton of comparisons on charging handles themselves. I use the Griffin SNACH and it does help.

For blow back even with that it's going to depend on a whole lot more factors that a CH won't be able to fix. Ammo choices (powder choice) is a big deal because lots of powders are much more 'gassy' than others. If you are shooting a lot of rapid fire is another. Also if you are shooting on a very still day (no wind) or shooting indoors (again no wind) it can get you gassed out quickly.

[UWone77]

No, don't waste your money.

AR suppressed, you're just gonna have to suck it up, or find a better suppressed host. Pistons are slightly better if you want to stick with AR's.

[Joelski]

OSS claims their suppressor is made to spec for the military especially to mitigate blow-back.


https://youtu.be/Ri1E0K91-74

[Joelski]

That don't look cheep!

[MoxyDave]

The upcoming 3D-printed suppressors from SIG are supposed to actually REDUCE pressure at the muzzle. Since they aren't out yet nobody knows for sure ... but here's hoping, since I love a suppressed AR ... time will tell.

[BoilerUp]

I like the Griffin Armament SN-ACH since it basically functions like, and costs about the same as, a Raptor but does mitigate the gas a teeny tiny bit. UW is right though, it doesn't really make a big difference. You're better off using a mil-spec CH and putting the money towards good eye pro ;)

[BoilerUp]

OSS claims their suppressor is made to spec for the military especially to mitigate blow-back.

I gotta say, that's some good marketing there. I've been a bit "meh" on the OSS cans but now I'll take a closer look.

[UWone77]

The newer OSS cans are much more practical from a length/bulk stand point. Their first gen stuff was good, but way too bulky.

[mustangfreek]

Just looking at a few CH’s I have ,the Geissele “looks” like it would better with the tighter machining and back lip..Vs a raptor a hammer I have..maybe not though

A Piston system hAs been on my wants to try list and maybe even more so now

[Former11B]

I’d spend the money on adjusting your gas first.

I have a two SNACHs but they don’t have any gas to funnel out, so I started buying Geissele ACHs

[mustangfreek]

How many of ya have tried a raptor SD?

[SINNER]

PRI Gasbuster’s with the RTV mod is a slight improvement but you right handlers are crybabies. LOL Try it once with the port in your face.

[SINNER]

And the best suppressor host is a Scar. Don’t waste the money on a piston AR.

[Joelski]

How many of ya have tried a raptor SD?

It "Maybe" helps a little more gas fall out of the port, rather than find all the cracks and crevices a non-swiss cheesed CH would.

Did you say Raptor?

https://i.imgur.com/wyu6D3M.jpg

[Joelski]

This one, while a little dated, has a deeper groove. TBH, I don't really notice a lot of gas from this rifle, but it's an all-around pleasure to shoot.

https://i.imgur.com/DqXaj5e.jpg

[Stone]

I know this was about CH's but wasnt that super special Surefire BCG supposed to help eliminate blowback by delaying the unlocking time, or something like that. Somebody here bought one and was going to review it but cant remember who...

[Joelski]

I know this was about CH's but wasnt that super special Surefire BCG supposed to help eliminate blowback by delaying the unlocking time, or something like that. Somebody here bought one and was going to review it but cant remember who...

That would be UW, of course. I think I remember him saying it wasn’t worth the premium over decent carriers?


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[mustangfreek]

I know this was about CH's but wasnt that super special Surefire BCG supposed to help eliminate blowback by delaying the unlocking time, or something like that. Somebody here bought one and was going to review it but cant remember who...


There’s the Surefire optimized bcg - works a little different then the other 2.

The bootleg is suppose to help also but more so with directing gas other places., along with the Gemtech carrier ( that bootleg makes)

[Joelski]

Best mitigation of gas face goes to...

The BRN-180!

What gas does make it to the receiver travels back through the barrel and dumps out the port (sorry, lefties). There's literally no place else for it to go.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/643c1369512f0f9b64bb11fddc67d45b.jpg

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[usbp379]

OSS claims their suppressor is made to spec for the military especially to mitigate blow-back.


https://youtu.be/Ri1E0K91-74OSS suppressors do seem to work as advertised. I was fortunate enough to mess with a couple. The gas blowback was greatly reduced on the AR I shot and the cyclic rate on full auto remained about the same on the SCAR-17.

Size and weight are a bit of an issue but OSS has improved the designs somewhat in these regards.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[UWone77]

Best mitigation of gas face goes to...

The BRN-180!

What gas does make it to the receiver travels back through the barrel and dumps out the port (sorry, lefties). There's literally no place else for it to go.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/643c1369512f0f9b64bb11fddc67d45b.jpg

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This is exactly the reason I want to get one... at least for off hand shooting [:D]

After shooting a tuned SCAR16 and G36C suppressed, it's hard to go back to your standard AR with all the gas in the face.

[Former11B]

Best mitigation of gas face goes to...

The BRN-180!

What gas does make it to the receiver travels back through the barrel and dumps out the port (sorry, lefties). There's literally no place else for it to go.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/643c1369512f0f9b64bb11fddc67d45b.jpg

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I have a gas block that does the no gas in face thing [BD]

And that’s with a suppressor

But I’m about to start the 9mm vs 45 convo again lol

[Joelski]

This is exactly the reason I want to get one... at least for off hand shooting [:D]

After shooting a tuned SCAR16 and G36C suppressed, it's hard to go back to your standard AR with all the gas in the face.At this point I wholeheartedly recommend you get one. Their backorder cycles seem relatively quick, so watch for a good coupon and do the thing. These can be had for $750 with a sale and a coupon. It's a heck of a bargain in terms of AR value.

My bestie got a new OSS Helix for his first can and he likes it well enough he may never know true "gasface ". [:D]

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[Joelski]

This is exactly the reason I want to get one... at least for off hand shooting [:D]

After shooting a tuned SCAR16 and G36C suppressed, it's hard to go back to your standard AR with all the gas in the face.

The 180 provides all that fun for a minimum savings of $2,000. Plus, you get to keep your optic. [emoji3]

[UWone77]

So a quick tid bit today, I finally got some extensive use out of my SF optimized bolt carrier today. Had a 3 day entry class this week, and on the final day, I decided to use one of my personal carbines for the live fire drills. Decided to throw in the SF carrier and a Dead Air Sandman K at the end of a CMT build with a 10.5 Ballistic Advantage Barrel. Gun has no other gas mitigation systems and no adjustable gas block.

Barely any gas in the face after 600 rounds. It was a pleasure to shoot and I would say there is no more gas in the face than a non-suppressed gun. I'll need to run the gun a little more, but so far, I'm impressed with the results and looking forward to building another dedicated suppressed gun around a 2nd SF carrier I have.

[gatordev]

Barely any gas in the face after 600 rounds. It was a pleasure to shoot and I would say there is no more gas in the face than a non-suppressed gun. I'll need to run the gun a little more, but so far, I'm impressed with the results and looking forward to building another dedicated suppressed gun around a 2nd SF carrier I have.

I understand you may not be able to answer this yet, but figured I'd ask the question... Would you say this is a better purchase if you're trying to shoot/tame a SHORT SBR versus a "standard" SBR (like a 14.5)? Seems like the 10.3/10.5 (and maybe the 11.5) might benefit more from this than a 14.5. Obviously gas port design comes into play, so I understand it's a loaded question. Other than my 416s, I tend to build/request reduced gas port designs, so I guess I live in a "more" perfect world...if that makes sense. But even given that, an ADCO 10.3 suppressed still pushes the gas, even if it's not as bad as a commercial upper.

[tact]

Although not a lefty, but I don’t have any gas face issues at all with a 10.5 BCM that always runs suppressed. It’s just a bone stock work rifle. I only added a Giessele FBI contract CH for the sole purpose of eliminating any chance of snagging on kit......it’s a little more rounded than an ACH.

[mustangfreek]

After shooting suppressed a little while now, I can join in and say ARs don’t suppresse very well lol

I have been using a few things, since I like tuning my shit and want it to run the best I can get it..Still changing shit around

But in my 10.5” i was using a bootleg carrier for a while and works well for what it is vs a std carrier.. Besides making the upper so much more dirty.. But, again I can’t leave shit alone, So swapping around buffers and springs currently (any suggestions for baby smooth , perfect function, I’m listening:) ..)

Also just swapped in one of those BRT suppressed sized gas tubes (.059 port) Ran up for a quick test the other day...tons better, runs softer and lot less gas.

I also use a SLR adjustable gas block on my 12.5” 308 (first adj gas block I ever used) and with a pri fat boy gas toob and H3/armalite spring & A5 length toob, it shoots softer then my 556 ars it feels like

Now I moved the bootleg over to the grendel

[Joelski]

Switch to 300 blk.

[Former11B]

After shooting suppressed a little while now, I can join in and say ARs don’t suppresse very well lol

I have been using a few things, since I like tuning my shit and want it to run the best I can get it..Still changing shit around

But in my 10.5” i was using a bootleg carrier for a while and works well for what it is vs a std carrier.. Besides making the upper so much more dirty.. But, again I can’t leave shit alone, So swapping around buffers and springs currently (any suggestions for baby smooth , perfect function, I’m listening:) ..)

Also just swapped in one of those BRT suppressed sized gas tubes (.059 port) Ran up for a quick test the other day...tons better, runs softer and lot less gas.

I also use a SLR adjustable gas block on my 12.5” 308 (first adj gas block I ever used) and with a pri fat boy gas toob and H3/armalite spring & A5 length toob, it shoots softer then my 556 ars it feels like

Now I moved the bootleg over to the grendel

What suppressor?

I’m doing very basic things and don’t have all these gas issues. Over complicating it is easy

[Joelski]

This. I'm good with Stoner's design for the most part. I did put a AGB on my M5, but that was $67 vs. zillion dollar money and time rabbit hole fucking with springs and buffers for a carbine system that wasn't designed for large caliber rifles. John can chime in here, but I imagine I could have put a rifle buffer system on it and it would have run just fine.

[mustangfreek]

Switch to 300 blk.

Why?


What suppressor?

I’m doing very basic things and don’t have all these gas issues. Over complicating it is easy

Lol.What gas issues? Btw 2 of these I’m talking about are RA barrels.

I was just mentioning the things I’ve played with. Std shit nowadays has huge gas ports and add a can and ..overpassed is the norm for about all ARs unfortunately

Phuck that, I went down this road, why not fine tune it to MY setup

You run adj gas blocks and gimmicky charging handles, so not sure what iyour over complicating comment is about.

I don’t know why some more companies just can’t drill a small hole, instead of a Grand Canyon.. 556 with a can will run with a .045-.050 ish port no problem.. why the yugggge fogging holes...... ;)

[Joelski]

Why?

It's Apple's stupid marketing ploy; "It just works". Super or sub, suppressed or not. No fucking with it whatsoever. If somebody chimes in with a different opinion, I will submit that their nature is to tweak shit, which is 100% unnecessary with 300 BLK. If that sounds too much like Brittingham's Koolaid, I'm sorry, but that's the results I've had. Whatever gas port, pistol length gas tube, stock Carb buffer. Done.

You reload; get after it. And don't hand me that "oddball ammunition" crap, Mr .270. [:D] If you ever want to try it, I'll send you 50 cases to get started with.


I don’t know why some more companies just can’t drill a small hole, instead of a Grand Canyon.. 556 with a can will run with a .045-.050 ish port no problem.. why the yugggge fogging holes......

I'm sure high dollar shops like Hodge can take your money to do that, or a competent gunsmith can weld and re-drill your port if the barrel is valuable enough to modify, rather than replace. The fact is, those who own and use suppressors is a niche market compared to those who don't. As a manufacturer, why change tooling to do that when you can sell the barrels and let the owner do all the putzing to get his gun to work correctly? DD did back off their gaping port size after enough people griped about it, but who has gone appropriately smaller? Sucks, but that's economics 101 in today's world. Hell, even guns sold as dedicated hosts have oversize ports to run shit ammo. I can't understand why somebody would invest in a nice gun, or NFA items, only to run shit ammo? I know you reload your own, so that's definitely not directed at you, but the dumb-dumbs who buy cool shit, then expect it run sardine can shit are what's making it tough for the guys who want good specs. Hell, the military does it so they can strip NATO rounds of a body in a firefight, so don't expect that to change. The mil isn't all SOF; there are plenty of mouth breathers who can fuck up a wet dream, let a lone a high reliability weapon!

I haven't done an extended test on my 180 yet, but so far, with 200 round sessions (which is nothing, I know), I'm surprised with the small amount of blowback crud accumulation in the lower. For a right-handed shooter, I haven't found a better solution to gas face than that system. Granted, I haven't put my suppressor on it yet, and I'm sure that when I do, it will increase the crap buildup, but I'm sure that adding oil will work for it, just like a traditional AR/M16.

[Joelski]

We don't get to hunt with anything but straight sided ammunition in Ohio (yet, I hope). The exception is feral hogs and coyotes, but hogs are fairly thin this far north just yet. Night coyote hunting is a fooking blast. I am positive 11 bravo could take out a deer at 100+ with 300 BLK supers, but the thing is, where the F are you going to have much more than 50-100 yards line of sight, hunting in the east?

That said, I am looking forward to 8.4 BLK and seeing what it can do, both target and 'yote hunting-wise. If that materializes, and for some reason I can't resist, that will get me into reloading for sure, but Hornady is quoting $1.20/round give or take 10%.

Sorry for the derail, but it's kind of expected here anyway. [:D]

[UWone77]

Why?



Lol.What gas issues? Btw 2 of these I’m talking about are RA barrels.

I was just mentioning the things I’ve played with. Std shit nowadays has huge gas ports and add a can and ..overpassed is the norm for about all ARs unfortunately

Phuck that, I went down this road, why not fine tune it to MY setup

You run adj gas blocks and gimmicky charging handles, so not sure what iyour over complicating comment is about.

I don’t know why some more companies just can’t drill a small hole, instead of a Grand Canyon.. 556 with a can will run with a .045-.050 ish port no problem.. why the yugggge fogging holes...... ;)

Because most people shoot shit ammo, and the suppressor market is tiny, like really tiny vs everyone else shooting non-suppressed. Making small gas ports or really correct gas ports will get people complaining their guns don't cycle their crap, underpowered ammo.

If you want to see a Grand Canyon gas port, check out some midlength 300 BO Black Hole Armory tried to make back in the day. Those did not cycle because middy 300 is just not a good idea.

[mustangfreek]

I’ve played with 300 BO

Nothing exciting about it other then shooting lobbing subs...which is still ehh

Got to reload if you want to shoot any decent amount of them.. which is still up there

I can build subsonic 308’s for cheaper..

UW- I know all about it, as you sent me that barrel Long ago to play with...lol..it did run with supers and a carbine buffer.. Buy was not enjoyable to shoot

I get the smaller market for suppressor stuff, but it’s grown crazy in the last few years

It’s not that hard to make the same barrels with 2 different ports.. but then again this day and age, most mutha F ers are lazy and don’t wanna tinker..

My 10.5” RA 556 barrel with 057 port with xm193 ammo is still running and locking back on a H2 with a 556 can.. can still go lower, but it’s so much better then the stock .076 port...

I’d like to try a brn setup

[Former11B]

Why?



Lol.What gas issues? Btw 2 of these I’m talking about are RA barrels.

I was just mentioning the things I’ve played with. Std shit nowadays has huge gas ports and add a can and ..overpassed is the norm for about all ARs unfortunately

Phuck that, I went down this road, why not fine tune it to MY setup

You run adj gas blocks and gimmicky charging handles, so not sure what iyour over complicating comment is about.

I don’t know why some more companies just can’t drill a small hole, instead of a Grand Canyon.. 556 with a can will run with a .045-.050 ish port no problem.. why the yugggge fogging holes...... ;)

I have two Griffin “SNACH” charging handles

The first one I got because it was new and the guy who sold me the can had one and sent it to me. Literally did nothing gas related on my rifle because no gas was coming out of it.

I bought a second one because I liked the handles, how solid it was, etc not because of the gas relief feature because they don’t have gas coming out of them. All the other charging handles I’ve bought since have been Geissele ACHs.

All I said was “it’s easy to overcomplicate it”. I see tons of people replacing tons of parts and they get so far away from “zero” they don’t know what’s causing their issues.

And if you ran a .045-.050 gas port, all these people running Wolf and Tula would cursing the barrel or rifle online. The underpowered rounds wouldn’t work with it, especially unsuppressed

The AGBs are tuned to where they function on all rifles at the same point: where they function unsuppressed with the same ammo so they’re all running the same rate of gas return unsuppressed. They do bleed off gas when suppressed but that’s the point. I could run the AGBs much more open but then the rifles wouldn’t function unsuppressed and it would be like mimicking the tiny gas port.

[alamo5000]

I have two Griffin “SNACH” charging handles

The first one I got because it was new and the guy who sold me the can had one and sent it to me. Literally did nothing gas related on my rifle because no gas was coming out of it.

I bought a second one because I liked the handles, how solid it was, etc not because of the gas relief feature because they don’t have gas coming out of them. All the other charging handles I’ve bought since have been Geissele ACHs.

Don't get too attached to the SNACH because they quit making them, at least the original version. The V2 is a non ambi version that is less than impressive. I sent mine back and ultimately got a refund. The problem I have is they still promote it using the same photos and literature as the V1 even though it's nothing at all like the V1 (which I have two of those myself).

I am looking for an alternative so I will give the other one you mentioned a look.

As far as the actual function of "gas busting" goes, over time I have come to think that gas busting charging handles in general are ok but they cannot over ride other portions of the gun causing over gassing. They might add that extra 5-10% from a good setup to make it great but they won't fix a bad setup.

[UWone77]

It’s not that hard to make the same barrels with 2 different ports.. but then again this day and age, most mutha F ers are lazy and don’t wanna tinker..



You basically nailed your own point right there.

The suppressor market has grown exponentially since 2008, but it's still a micro fraction of the firearms market. Most don't understand the basics of gas port dimensions, so like you said, it would be pointless to release barrels with multiple gas ports.

One option is to cut down a .060 gas port 16" I cut down 2 RA mountain barrels with .057 to .062 gas ports tp 10.3" Right now they'll only run with a can.

[Joelski]

Regarding Griffin’s Suppressor Optimized Buffer:


In the current market, cost constraints and a desire for rifles to run with cheap, underpowered, steel jacketed ammunition are driving forces for many firearms companies who are involved in what appears to be a constant race for the bottom.

Most rifles are aggressively over-gassed and supplied with cheap, light CAR buffers which are employed to reduce system cost, robbing rifles of necessary weight for reliable chambering with fouled chambers. This also encourages premature unlocking of the bolt, causing undue extraction stress, contributing to operational failures and mechanical failures of critical system components.

Suppressors further increase system operating speed and exacerbate the over-gassed condition. Our AR Suppressor Optimized Buffers (SOB) will work to resolve these issues by allowing a carbine to run more smoothly and reliably.


The AR-SOB (Suppressor Optimized Buffer) has a spring loaded (Gen 2 addition), staggered impact design that offers increased system dwell time, reduced bolt speed, and enhanced chambering reliability of your AR style rifle. The AR-SOB can be used in conjunction with or without a suppressor.
$54.59 MSRP


The AR-SOB-A2 weighs 5.6 ounces, and can be used in suppressed 5.56mm rifles as a replacement for the M4 carbine series buffers, when used in conjunction with the AR10 mil-spec CAR receiver extension, Griffin AR-10 Maritime Receiver Extension, or "Vltor A5" buffer tube, AND AR-10 CAR action spring.
$59.95 MSRP

[mustangfreek]

I just got one of them newer Sob buffers today.. So going back up this week to test it out versus the std H2

Some testing this weekend

10.5 with .059 Brt gas port/tube
Wolf gold
With can off it won’t run with a H2 but will with a H
Still room to go smaller. Quick pic

[tact]

I personally didn’t think the SOB buffer thing is doing anything groundbreaking......I don’t feel like it is doing anything positive or negative for my suppressed SBRs......seems like a gimmick.

[mustangfreek]

Ya, now in hand. Not sure what the hype is about.

If it feels like a regular H2, i will sell it and try out a A5 setup (A5 toob, tubbs,kynshot)

[mustangfreek]

I sold that griffin crap after 2 mags..sux

Gave in and bought a A5 setup to try and couple different buffers including a kynshot hyd buffer..expensive but always been curious.

[Former11B]

I just got one of them newer Sob buffers today.. So going back up this week to test it out versus the std H2

Some testing this weekend

10.5 with .059 Brt gas port/tube
Wolf gold
With can off it won’t run with a H2 but will with a H
Still room to go smaller. Quick pic

Older post but I just read you’re running Wolf gold

I have seen evidence that Wolf gold causes some abnormally high baffle erosion due to flame cutting or whatever else is in that mixture (and its undergassed compared to say LC M193 but that’s not the issue).

This was a Surefire RC2 can with 3500 rounds fired of ONLY Wolf gold and a the erosion pattern looked to be about halfway through the blast baffle (10.3” barrel). He was using a 4 prong FH rather than a brake which would probably aid in saving the blast baffle

Just a friendly word of caution to keep an eye on yours just in case

[UWone77]

I understand you may not be able to answer this yet, but figured I'd ask the question... Would you say this is a better purchase if you're trying to shoot/tame a SHORT SBR versus a "standard" SBR (like a 14.5)? Seems like the 10.3/10.5 (and maybe the 11.5) might benefit more from this than a 14.5. Obviously gas port design comes into play, so I understand it's a loaded question. Other than my 416s, I tend to build/request reduced gas port designs, so I guess I live in a "more" perfect world...if that makes sense. But even given that, an ADCO 10.3 suppressed still pushes the gas, even if it's not as bad as a commercial upper.

I'm going to say yes, only because I don't recall as much gas in the face shooting 14.5" suppressed previously vs a 10.3/5...but I'm wondering now if I should try to shoot it on 14.5" SBR and see what kind of difference I notice.

[gatordev]

I'm going to say yes, only because I don't recall as much gas in the face shooting 14.5" suppressed previously vs a 10.3/5...but I'm wondering now if I should try to shoot it on 14.5" SBR and see what kind of difference I notice.

I had to go back to see what we were even discussing... So since my question, I ended up grabbing a Bootleg from...someone...I think Big Tex or Bauer. I've shot it exactly 0 times, but someone who I respect as a shooter (and otherwise) has had great luck on a 10.x suppressed SBR with the Bootleg, so I'm still interested. Maybe in the future I'll look at the SF, but I would still welcome reports.

[mustangfreek]

Older post but I just read you’re running Wolf gold

I have seen evidence that Wolf gold causes some abnormally high baffle erosion due to flame cutting or whatever else is in that mixture (and its undergassed compared to say LC M193 but that’s not the issue).

This was a Surefire RC2 can with 3500 rounds fired of ONLY Wolf gold and a the erosion pattern looked to be about halfway through the blast baffle (10.3” barrel). He was using a 4 prong FH rather than a brake which would probably aid in saving the blast baffle

Just a friendly word of caution to keep an eye on yours just in case

I’ve heard that also. Not worried as I don’t have a lot of it.

Did you mean to post a pic?
Ya, Those 3/4 prong fh’s are notoriously worse on a can.


I was using a bootleg in a 10.5 that was over gassed. IT helped a lot , all around way better. Less gas, less dirty and easy to change settings

Now running a brt suppressed tube and std bootleg bcg ,a step better and now gonna try a A5 setup and lantac and hoping just a little better with the Ebcg