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Creeky73
12 May 2009, 17:30
So I might be in the market for a 1911. I do NOT want to spend $1k on this thing, so I am looking for the best lower-end options. One that I have been considering is the Kimber entry level, at around $750, although I have been hearing some negative things about the newer runs of them. That brings me to Springfield, and although the GI model or Mil-Spec model may be more cost-effective, I wonder if those guns will satisfy me right out of the box. They appear pretty basic. And then there are the Taurus 1911's. They appear to have a lot of features of more expensive guns, but if the quality difference is going to be night and day vs a more expensive brand, it isn't worth it to me. Has anyone heard or experienced anything with these guns, or have any other suggestions?

GriffonSec
12 May 2009, 17:45
My Taurus 1911 was a learning gun for me, to get me into the feel of working on a 1911. The only gripe I had with it out of the box was the grip safety, as in you could fire the gun without the grip safety engaged. Aside from that, and outstanding shooter and fired everything through it, including lead reloads. I think the price has gone up on them since I got mine, but at the time, 500 bucks minus the cost of the Ed Brown safety was, what I thought, a good deal on a good 1911. I've shot a few other Taurus' with similar results. YMMV.

adrenaline151
12 May 2009, 19:48
I had a Smith & Wesson 1911PD 4 1/2" a few years back, it was very nice, although it did have a malf now and then. Switched to an XD and have had NO malfs and accuracy is better than the S&W, 'course it could be improvement on my part ;)
Anyway, the S&W was less than a grand, had a lot of top end features, was around 29 ounces IIRC, and carried great. Very durable finish, as well.

travclem
12 May 2009, 19:52
You can get a Base model Kimber for under a grand.

I luvs me some Kimbers[:D]

Cameron
12 May 2009, 19:59
DON'T SCREW AROUND GET A COLT!

Paid less than $600 each for these two...
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Handguns/080719Colts03.jpg

sadmin
13 May 2009, 06:18
I partially agree with the kiwi; but that may not satisfy OPs price point. The Springfield may not look as nice as the kimbers, but its cheaper and the overall feel imo will be the same; which is what you will be focusing on. The Springfield may be, oddly, more forgiving with ammo than the entry Kimbers. I have a Colt, Springfield, Kimber, and a Briley Custom. I can try to get some pics up so you can see the idiosyncrasies; but again, Lframe is Lframe. Nix the Taurus under "buy once..." law.

Stickman
13 May 2009, 08:34
With price in mind, your best bet may end up being a Springfield for an off the shelf weapon. If you are looking at a weapon to build up, thats a different story.

sobebu2z
13 May 2009, 18:52
First of all I would liketo say, good choice going with a 1911, classic and dependable.
With your price range I would recommend going with a Para Ordnance, they are underated and that's why their price is low not because of their quality. I own 2 (7.45 LDA, and PXT 1911 limited and they have yet to fail me). Good luck

Army Chief
14 May 2009, 02:19
If you aren't investing in a $2000 semi-custom, there is only one production 1911 that really interests me: a Hartford original. You may be able to get a few more bells and whistles from a competitor for the same price point, but over time, most serious 1911 shooters will wish to have their steel tuned by a pistolsmith-of-choice, and as far as base guns go, you'll be hard-pressed to do better than a Colt.


AC

Disclaimer:
My personal 1911s are Colts and Wilsons.
My personal ARs are Colts and Noveskes.

... you might (correctly) say that I've got an obsession with quality.

rob_s
14 May 2009, 02:36
The new Charles Daly Defense (yes, that Charles Daly) promises to be a great option if the production guns match the prototypes shown at SHOT. They are limiting the bells and whistles to those that actually improve on the GI spec and are leaving the frilly crap off (the frilly crap that adds to the cost but doesn't actually add any functionality, like forward cocking serrations).

There have been some setbacks in production, but if you don't have an immediate need for a 1911 right now then I think they are going to be worth waiting for.

FWIW, I generally catch a lot of crap for it, but my take is that there are precious few 1911s that I would actually carry for critical use that cost under about $1500+. If you want a 1911 just to have one, for plinking, or as a crap-shoot in terms of reliability, then I'd consider some of the lower-priced options.

My observational experience as an IDPA safety officer in watching shooters with Taurus, S&W, Sig, etc. has not endeared these versions to me.

gunnut284
17 May 2009, 16:59
The new Charles Daly Defense (yes, that Charles Daly) promises to be a great option if the production guns match the prototypes shown at SHOT. They are limiting the bells and whistles to those that actually improve on the GI spec and are leaving the frilly crap off (the frilly crap that adds to the cost but doesn't actually add any functionality, like forward cocking serrations).

There have been some setbacks in production, but if you don't have an immediate need for a 1911 right now then I think they are going to be worth waiting for.

FWIW, I generally catch a lot of crap for it, but my take is that there are precious few 1911s that I would actually carry for critical use that cost under about $1500+. If you want a 1911 just to have one, for plinking, or as a crap-shoot in terms of reliability, then I'd consider some of the lower-priced options.

My observational experience as an IDPA safety officer in watching shooters with Taurus, S&W, Sig, etc. has not endeared these versions to me.

I have come to this realization as well. Way to many people (and I speak as one of them) get caught in the 1911 cult and rush out and buy a lower end version, only to be disappointed. It takes a fair amount of luck to get a sub$1000 1911 that honestly works 100% out of the box (after break-in). A quality 1911 is a joy to shoot and carry but a subpar one is a pile of frustration to its owner.

Hozen
21 May 2009, 12:50
My Smith and Wesson Stainless 1911 has served me really well and was $800 dollars. It's never malfunctioned... not once. Its as accurate as I am. I certainly cannot get tighter groups with any other piston I own or my buddies own (including one Para LDA 1911). A Kimber Stainless II would be a good option or a Springer Loaded right along with the Smith and Wessons. While I don't own one, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a kimber or Sprinfield 1911. I think the Taurus 1911's are getting to pricey for what they are. They used to be a good bargin when they were around 500 dollars. Not anymore. They don't look as polished and generally aren't going to hold their value as much.

The customer service of Springfield and Smith and Wesson are, in my (and many others) opinion far and away better than Kimber or some other brands.

There are going to be a ton of people out there who tell you all the 1911's under 1500 dollars are crap and are sub par. Those same people are the ones who have those 1500 dollar pistols and want to make themselves feel good about their purchase. Now, that said, its hard to find a 1500 dollar 1911 that isn't better than a sub 1000 dollar 1911. You DO get what you pay for when it comes to the 1911 platform. So, you'll have to sift through the sh!t to figure out if you need to spend that much or not.

I like this forum for 1911 discussion.
http://forums.1911forum.com/
You can probably get better answers there.

durangojim
21 May 2009, 13:37
I might get flamed for this but I have read good things about Rock Island Armory 1911s as a reliable starter 1911. I don't own one or a 1911 but just trying to share some info.

This (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=181821) is an old thread regarding them.

Army Chief
22 May 2009, 05:47
I like this forum for 1911 discussion.
http://forums.1911forum.com/
You can probably get better answers there.

True, but speaking as a 1911Forum Moderator, I can assure you that my answer there will be the same. ;)

AC

lanceriley
23 May 2009, 02:34
I've been a 1911 person for quite some time. my first 1911 was a hicap para ord.

in the end I opted for a 1911 that I had a smithy customized.

I would suggest a colt or a springfield. Im not a fan of kimber

XCoastie
24 May 2009, 08:59
Creeky73

I was in your boat about a year + ago. I was looking to get "into" the 1911 market for my everyday CCW. After carring a Glock 17 (LEO) (which I still own), a Beretta M9 (USCG) (never would own IMO). At that time my CCW was a Sig P226 (still own and LOVE). I was looking for something with a rail and more stopping power. I researched WeVo and AR15.com alot. I ended up going with the Kimber SIS model ($1260) after a lot or research. I know your looking to spend less that $1K. But I am a firm believer in buy once. I have not been dissapointed with the Kimber at all. And the civilian SIS version isn't a Generation II Kimber.

XCoastie

nc12215
14 June 2009, 12:22
My next handgun purchase is going to be a STI Spartan. I will be using and abusing it for practice and competition. I will then be able to regulate my Colt to a "working retirement". They run right at $600 or less.
Dave

Boris
28 July 2009, 18:42
I am a Kimber fan, but only the Series 1 or Clackamas made guns.

fwiw, Para now offers a GI "entry level" 1911 for $599 MSRP (which means a lot less at the dealer.)

http://www.paraord.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=73

-B

goyena70
7 July 2011, 11:01
You won't go wrong with a Desert Eagle 1911G..

Creeky73
9 July 2011, 14:52
wow this old thread comes back up huh...so I finally did buy a 1911, but only very recently. And I know I will get blasted for not spending more money, but I went with a Rock Island Armory. I had played around with one friend's Springfield Loaded model, and I borrowed another buddy's Springfield Mil Spec for a weekend to really try it out. My observations after spending some time with those 2 weapons: I am not going to be a 1911 fanboy. Plain and simple. I liked it enough to want an example of one (admittedly some or most of this is nostalgia, being that my grandfather was in WWII and I wanted something similar to what he carried) but I don't like it enough to make it my main carry or invest money in a "nice" one. Now, the more I shoot this GI model, the more I like IT...I capitalized "it" because I want to stress that I like this particular gun, and just don't feel a pressing need to "upgrade." I put some slim grips on it, and I will upgrade the sights, and then I will be done. My 1911 fix will be satisfied. FWIW, I think the RIA is a screaming deal. The prices went down at Bud's just after I bought mine, I am sure you can get them for under $400 shipped now. I would not normally be advocating something that a lot of people consider low-end, especially on this forum where people don't last long if they are advocates of cheap, questionable parts. But this gun seems pretty solid and damn accurate for the money. I would probably steer clear of the smaller ones as those seem to be the ones most people have problems with. You'd have a hard time finding consistent complaints on the govt size RIA's. Slim grips make a night-and-day difference too.

cmoore
7 August 2011, 04:02
With price in mind, your best bet may end up being a Springfield for an off the shelf weapon. If you are looking at a weapon to build up, thats a different story.



I'm with Stick on this one. Early Kimbers had more MIM'd parts that any other manufacturer. Have they improved that? I don't know. I'm partial SA and Colt as they've been building these things forever. I'm running a SA MC Operator @ work and they do make fine "basement level" entry pistols that can easily be upgraded when you have the cash.

tac40
9 August 2011, 16:00
A 3rd or 4th vote for either a Colt or Springfield. I love the look of the Kimber SIS model, no longer made by the way, but by the time I got to think about it, too late.

lamarbrog
13 August 2011, 17:42
I've had a Rock Island Armory for about four years. I just use it every once in a while as a range toy if I stumble upon some cheap .45ACP.

For about the first 250 rounds it was an absolutely awful pistol. Stove pipes and failures to feed at least every magazine, sometimes twice per mag. One day, though, it just started working fine. Had to have a break in. It's fairly loose, but is "combat accurate" and plenty for the plinking I use it for.

I did have to trim the leaf spring a bit that rests in a notch in the frame since it was dragging against the magazine. Didn't affect function, but I wanted smooth magazine releases. (It had a little burr on it... 30 seconds with a file made it work perfectly.) I also gave it a little feed ramp polishing with a Dremel tool. I only paid about $360 for it, though.

Would I trust my life to it? Not when I have my Beretta 92FS or H&K P7. It has been extremely reliable after I broke it in, no reason I shouldn't trust it other than my bias against it for being a cheap gun from the Phillipines. Feeds hollow points and all sorts of mixed up junk ammo.


During my time working in a gun store... I saw quite a few Taurus pistols that were defective out of the box. Link pins cut so long that you couldn't strip the pistol without a mallet were not uncommon. The one we used as a rental gun was always falling apart in some way. Sights falling off, grips falling off, safety falling out, magazine release screwing up. Springfield is made in Brazil, so I don't trust them because I worry they have "Taurus" parts.
We sent four Kimbers back to the factory due to problems. Couple wouldn't extract reliably. The other two just never seemed to feed right, even after an extensive break-in.
The worst barrel timing I've ever seen on a 1911 was on a Remington, although most of them seem to be okay.
Metro Arms, which is also from the Phillipines, was impressive. Little more than my Rock Island, but we got fantastic feed back on them from people who shot them a lot. One guy bought one as a beater fun gun to compliment his NightHawk Custom, and thought there wasn't much to tell between them in accuracy or reliability.
The Ruger SR1911 I handled seemed pretty nice, the guys at work who shot it said it handled well. I didn't shoot it, though.

If you want a fun range toy... I'd get one made in the Philippines. If you want something to carry... I don't know what to tell you.

AR-10
18 August 2011, 08:25
My $0.02:

Don't buy a Springfield GI model unless you want a replica - the Mil-Spec model is pretty much the same pistol with certain "upgrades" that you will eventually figure out you wanted in the first place.

You can't go wrong with a Colt, the newer pistols will have Series 80 parts - some shooters feel that this changes the trigger pull, others don't even notice - if it bothers you, you can always change it to Series 70 parts.

As for the Kimber, well I've only owned one and it had an external extractor - it was the biggest hunk of crap I have ever wasted money on.

Creeky73
20 August 2011, 15:32
so far, the only thing about this gun that I wish I would have gotten from the factory is the front and rear dovetails for sights. after what I have seen of the stake-on sights, I don't think I am too crazy about that. I don't miss the beavertail grip safety or commander-style hammer. Maybe it is the way I hold it, but the GI setup is not uncomfortable to me.

as for malfunctions...from what I have read, I would just about have to draw the conclusion that it doesn't matter how much money you spend on one, a 1911 has a decent possibility of needing some work done to it, right out of the box. Maybe you can avoid some of this by dropping the really serious coin, like for Les Baer, Ed Brown, Wilson and others, but I would never spend that much on a handgun even if I had that kind of cash. For me, it would be impossible to justify that kind of money when there are so many other types of semi-autos out there that you can damn near be guaranteed a great out-of-box experience at a far cheaper price.

that being said, the only malfunctions I have had with my RIA are when the factory magazine is loaded to full 8-round capacity. It doesn't like that too much. Load it with 7 rounds, or use good quality magazines and it eats cheap ammo nicely.

as for trusting my life with it? My G17 is still my true love.

MCKNBRD
29 August 2011, 20:51
Any love for the Ruger offering? I've had a couple come through work, and I got to shoot one at the Corporate Firearms event this year, but only a couple of mags through it.

Personally, I'm a Ruger fan...and was impressed with the gun. Good trigger (no firing pin safety), solid, all-steel construction, nice wood grips, and an appealing SS/blk trim/wood finish.

All at around a street price of $700ish. Hard to beat, if they run well.

Byrdman

Hatter
31 August 2011, 06:10
From what I've learned the consensus is that Ruger did very well with the SR1911 offering. The biggest negative is that they have been a bit hard to find. They have been quite reliable and Ruger managed to make a no-frills, rock solid 1911 at a good price point. If I didn't own two 1911's already I'd definitely be looking into one.

nraliferddomega
4 September 2011, 16:26
I've had a Smith & Wessom eSeries (#108482-stainless gov't model) for a few months now.
Eats all ammo types.
No failures whatsoever even with the two factory supplied magazines.
$775 +tax out the door at my local gun guy.
No Schwartz FPS. Titanium firing pin.
Lots of 1911 choices. Not many USA manufactured under $1K.

wneubauer
17 September 2011, 20:35
My RIA 1911 Match has been a great gun, reliable, sturdy, and a simple steel tool for shooting whatever I put in there, including lead SWC handloads. I really love that pistol, and carry it occasionally with a Minotaur.

My Colt Defender is what I carry, and at 850.00 or so street price, I see no need to look any farther for a compact 1911 and stay well under your budget.

The RIA loves simple GI mags the best, although it uses everything I have put in it. It struggled a bit with my Mec Gar mags, which may be the factory mag you got.

Good luck!

Creeky73
18 September 2011, 06:56
I have a couple of friends who are looking into the smaller 1911's for carry, and it seems that there are a few pretty nice pistols for under a grand to a little over a grand. It also seems like the shorter barrel versions tend to be more problematic than the govt length. I thought about getting one of the smaller ones from RIA to use for carry, but I truly do not want another project gun, and that is what it would be.

my RIA is currently at the gunsmith getting the front end dovetailed for a new sight. I did not want to go that route because I wanted to keep as much of a GI look as possible to it, but after seeing how cruddy the install work looked on the replacement stake-on sight I bought, I just decided to dovetail it. Right now I have about $600 into it, and there are a few more things that I would like to do, none of which are going to break the bank, and if I get real lucky I won't even have to use a smith. One might ask why I wouldn't just save up the money and get a $700 gun in the first place, but even doing that, I would have still had to spend the money to do some of the things I have done to this gun, so it wouldn't have actually saved me any money. I would have just had a "nicer" 1911 base to work with, like a Springfield.

the mag that came with it is an ACT MAG, and last time I fired it, it was running all 8 rounds just fine. I guess it just needed to be worked out a little bit. A Wilson 47D is what stays in it regular though.

Fixit69
19 September 2011, 21:43
My first post didn't make it. While I agree Springfield, etc...is a great option,I think you need to do more research. There is no such thing as too much. Make an informed decision and take your time.

Sure wish I had, more than once.