What's the deal with Surefire?

[alamo5000]

I am not knocking Surefire products. I have several lights of theirs and actually I love them (hence why I want to buy another). They are absolutely great.

What I am wondering about is their rollout of new products, specifically the XSC weapons light for small carry guns. They announced this new product over six months ago but nothing is being brought to actual market yet [at least one for my EDC Sig 365XL].

I have been waiting patiently (but eagerly) to buy one of these lights but it seems like their rollout kind of sucks. I understand that it's COVID times and all and that the market is insane but to the best of my knowledge they have not released anything into the wild (for the 365 series) at all yet.

Trying not to Monday morning quarterback here but it looks to me like they dropped the ball big time. They generated a lot of good media attention but then have nothing to sell.

Maybe somebody here knows more than I do about the hold up.

[Joelski]

Can you name 5 things from SF that are manufacturer specific? Go.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

Can you name 5 things from SF that are manufacturer specific? Go.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Not tracking the question.

My primary (only) complaint so far is they had a big product release a long time ago, more than six months at least, but to this day there has been zero delivery.

It seems like somewhere in between manufacturing and marketing those two teams are on different planets.

[UWone77]

Not tracking the question.

My primary (only) complaint so far is they had a big product release a long time ago, more than six months at least, but to this day there has been zero delivery.

It seems like somewhere in between manufacturing and marketing those two teams are on different planets.

You new to the firearms industry?

This is par for the course. Without SHOT 2021, there's probably no sense of urgency to get a product done ASAP, and with the current surge in all areas of the industry, not a lot of machine time to devote to new products when you can't even make enough current ones.

[alamo5000]

You new to the firearms industry?

This is par for the course. Without SHOT 2021, there's probably no sense of urgency to get a product done ASAP, and with the current surge in all areas of the industry, not a lot of machine time to devote to new products when you can't even make enough current ones.

It's a flashlight, or rather a weapons light, not really a gun. I can go to various sites and find many if not all of their other items even ones similar to the one I am looking at in stock.

I really am not sure but I haven't seen a shortfall of lights requiring extended backorders or whatever but I am very open to being wrong. Given they might be just focusing production on stuff already in sales channels (hence the questions). All I do know is they had a product launch and did all the stuff related to that but then they never actually launched the product.

I have only heard of one person getting the light and that was Mr GunsNGear and there was a lot of speculation that was a sample copy or something.

The pandemic and the gun run were already well underway when they did the formal product launch so it made a lot of people looking for that product to show up on shelves somewhere to wonder if they scrapped or delayed the the product until a later date or whatever.

[UWone77]

It's a flashlight, or rather a weapons light, not really a gun. I can go to various sites and find many if not all of their other items even ones similar to the one I am looking at in stock.

I really am not sure but I haven't seen a shortfall of lights requiring extended backorders or whatever but I am very open to being wrong. Given they might be just focusing production on stuff already in sales channels (hence the questions). All I do know is they had a product launch and did all the stuff related to that but then they never actually launched the product.

I have only heard of one person getting the light and that was Mr GunsNGear and there was a lot of speculation that was a sample copy or something.

The pandemic and the gun run were already well underway when they did the formal product launch so it made a lot of people looking for that product to show up on shelves somewhere to wonder if they scrapped or delayed the the product until a later date or whatever.

All aspects of firearms accessories are hard to find. Lights, accessories, optics, ect.

Product launch dates were announced and missed. Welcome to the firearms industry.

[Stone]

Even in good years deadlines from SS announcements are rarely met. Look at LWRC's SMG, I believe it was 4 years... Rule of thumb is that when a company gives a release date you add a year to that. And beyond that I usually give the product a year from actual release to work out all the problems that usually follow a new release. Folks who buy initial product releases usually become unwitting beta testers.

[Joelski]

Plus SF is a defense contractor. Contract > Retail all day, every day. Like Rich said, when it comes to machine time, are you going to dedicate it to making something that will probably sell like hotcakes, or to a contract that's paid on a pre-determined delivery cycle? It would be great if they'd keep the base in the loop, but they don't have to, because as soon as they put out product, people will fall over each other to scoop it up. Case in point: Aero's year late entry into the PCC market.

[Joelski]

Not tracking the question.

My primary (only) complaint so far is they had a big product release a long time ago, more than six months at least, but to this day there has been zero delivery.

It seems like somewhere in between manufacturing and marketing those two teams are on different planets.

I meant name 5 things SF makes that are dedicated Glock (Sig, Colt, etc..) accessories. Made for a specific manufacturer's product. Aside from the X300B, I can't think of another thing they offer that's designed specifically for a single type of firearm; that would limit their ability to sell all of any given item they offer.

[alamo5000]

Update:

Surefire knows people are irked at them dropping the ball. They published this story 4 days ago stating that there was a covid related battery issue and that units are now shipping. Let's hope this is true.

"After being delayed due to a battery issue related to Covid-19, the SureFire XSC is available for purchase. The rechargeable XSC is designed for the latest micro-compact concealed carry guns from GLOCK, SIG, and Springfield Armory."


https://surefire.news/surefire-xsc/

7778

[UWone77]

The Streamlight version is probably going to be a winner vs the SF just based on availability and aesthetics.

[alamo5000]

The Streamlight version is probably going to be a winner vs the SF just based on availability and aesthetics.

I'm totally open to comparing if I can find any place to lay hands on them. I'm not totally sure of anything just yet.

I need to look at the streamlight version and compare but I don't think that other one is out in the wild yet either.

About the only thing that I have formed a general opinion on in regards to pistol lights is more about the controls than anything else.

If option #1 has a ton of lumens and all that but option #2 has better controls I tend to like it better. Basically the controls and how to activate everything is now my top priority.

I'm definitely not attached to anything yet. When I was shopping for a red dot I was hell bent on the RMRcc but after I handled the Holosun I liked it better and went that route instead. Same thing could be true here.

Up until this point I have not seen either light in person. One thing I don't really care for is the proprietary battery, but if I do go this route I will buy a couple of spares just in case.

[MoxyDave]

I'm interested, but it's always a pain to deal with holster compatibility. I am really tired of buying new holsters.

I recently picked up a SureFire E2T-MV Tactician and I find it amazing how much better the beam is versus any other competitor. Surefire really has a good understanding of reflectors and beam profile. If this weaponlight follows that same design, the beam quality could make it a winner. Not sure if I love the rechargeable battery but it is an interesting option.

But again, buying a new goddamn holster every time is a real pain in the ass.

[alamo5000]

I'm interested, but it's always a pain to deal with holster compatibility. I am really tired of buying new holsters.

I recently picked up a SureFire E2T-MV Tactician and I find it amazing how much better the beam is versus any other competitor. Surefire really has a good understanding of reflectors and beam profile. If this weaponlight follows that same design, the beam quality could make it a winner. Not sure if I love the rechargeable battery but it is an interesting option.

But again, buying a new goddamn holster every time is a real pain in the ass.

I hear you loud and clear. It's definitely a pain in the ass to constantly get holsters. That is part of the reason I get so picky. I try to make sure what I get is right (as much as possible at least). Changing a light isn't just a quick easy thing. All kinds of other things get changed too.

I don't want to always be slow to adopt but on the other hand I want to get good with what I have. It generally gives me a healthy dose of skepticism if I should or shouldn't get stuff.

All I know now is when I first joined WEVO I didn't know anything about lights. Now I am on the cusp of becoming a collector. I've learned a ton of stuff here about lights and other stuff.

I have been eyeing that Tactician and the EDCL2 both. Not sure which one I will get yet. I've had the EDCL1 for a few years and I constantly use the thing. It's great. That and the Titan Plus are on me always.

As far as the weapons light is concerned I am leaning hard towards Surefire because everything else I've used of theirs is great.

Just like with everything else I want to buy them all. Whatever 'it' is I need a bigger budget for it. Lights are awesome. I need to convince myself that I need more of them.

[Joelski]

https://surefire.news/surefire-xsc/
7778

LOL! If you need a light, night sights, and an RMR to hit something, "just get a shotgun"

[alamo5000]

I didn't want to start an entirely new thread to ask, but does anyone know where I can get a spare pocket clip for Surefire flashlight(s)? (I know they are all different types/styles per the model)

A google search doesn't give me hardly any options to buy stuff and I didn't see anything on their site.

---

A follow up question to that is has anyone tried a deep pocket carry clip for the Tactician? I found the product linked below.

https://www.lumensfactory.com/en/product_detail.php?pid=556

How you install it is you use this tool below and you take off the lanyard ring and replace it with the clip above. Doesn't appear too difficult but I am wondering if anyone has tried it.

https://www.lumensfactory.com/en/product_detail.php?pid=545

[mustangfreek]

Email them.
I’m sure they will help.

They gave me some small parts for no charge when I contacted them to buy them.

[alamo5000]

I am having a helluva time here. LOL

I bought another Surefire light. The Tactician has been calling my name for a while now. Opened the brand new factory sealed package and nada. I tried to activate the 800 lumen setting to test it out and nothing. Tried a bunch of times. Removed the batteries and replaced them with known brand new ones. Again nothing. Replaced the batteries again, still no high setting.

Clearly it was a lemon so I emailed Surefire and they gave me an RMA straight away without asking any questions. My brand new light that I owned for about a full eight hours is on it's way back to Surefire.

I have no doubt that they will make it right but still, getting a lemon straight out of the box sucks.

---

As far as getting another clip for a different light is concerned, they won't sell them to the public. Apparently everyone is modifying their lights and Surefire doesn't like it so they won't sell just the clip. Anyway I will worry about that later.

[Stickman]

Everyone has a lemon now and then. Report back when you get a replacement.

[alamo5000]

Well I actually placed an order and got a shipping notification for the new XSC light for the 365XL. I will actually believe it when I get it in my hands but so far it's looking like they actually shipped it.

I've been waiting for a really long time and a place that I've shopped at before said it was in stock so I did a late night impulse buy. Not really impulse but I didn't hang out and try to see if it was a misprint or something.

Will report back next week once I get it.

Will also keep you informed about the turn around time for the Tactician light. They said that one might be up to a month but who knows. I opted to send it to the manufacturer myself vs back to the retailer for a replacement. It was in all new factory packaging when I got it so I figured SF had good warranty service and that it wasn't the retailer's fault so I just shipped it back myself.

[alamo5000]

XSC in hand. So far so good. Won't be able to carry it for a while until I get a new holster. I need to get used to the controls and practice with it. Just like anything else, skill is more important. One thing I like about it is it's extremely simple. A quick tap turns the light on. If you hold it for like a 10th of a second or longer it is momentary. If nothing else it's simple to activate.

If I had the cash and someone that I liked/trusted it would be interesting to go to a class about using lights in a concealed carry/home defense scenario.

I got the light but until I get more hours on it the jury will be out for a final verdict. First impressions are good though. When the other one from Streamlight comes out I still want to go handle it and do a side by side.

[alamo5000]

Another first impression I have is actually a question. But after thinking about it it kind of makes sense.

The programming 'seems' opposite of what an average joe might think they should be. Meaning, if you tap the control it turns the light to constant on. If you hold it for longer it's momentary.

At first that might seem opposite, but if you really think about it, if you are in a situation where you don't have complete control of things or you simply don't have time and where it's really high stress the quick tap/constant on seems fairly smart. You can turn the light on and be on the trigger really fast.

On the other hand if you run into a situation where you had more time to prepare you can use the momentary switch. The momentary takes a slight bit more of an intentional movement.

I think they did it that way because it's a concealed carry centered light. When you need light you need it now and negligent light discharges are much less of a big deal.

I definitely don't pretend to be an expert in the use of lights but I would think if you have a staged up scenario where a SWAT team is raiding some guy's house the needs for different types of primary control (modes) will be different than if some guy tries to get out of his car and attack me in the street.

With the constant on being the primary go to with this light it's really simple to activate and then be on your trigger in order to gain control of the situation.

[UWone77]

XSC in hand. So far so good. Won't be able to carry it for a while until I get a new holster.

This right here, prevents me from getting the newest lights all the time. I think Dave mentioned it before, I'm tired of getting new holsters.

TLR1HL or the X300, unless there is something crazy good new on the market. I get that these are smaller lights, but I've got a drawer full of TLR6 holsters for my Glock 43's and M&P Shields. Definitely keep posting your impressions, maybe I'll get one.

[alamo5000]

This right here, prevents me from getting the newest lights all the time. I think Dave mentioned it before, I'm tired of getting new holsters.

TLR1HL or the X300, unless there is something crazy good new on the market. I get that these are smaller lights, but I've got a drawer full of TLR6 holsters for my Glock 43's and M&P Shields. Definitely keep posting your impressions, maybe I'll get one.

Absolutely. I don't have a ton of hosters for this gun. Just one. I try to be very calculated about stuff (as everyone here knows). It's inevitable though that as I learn more I will need different things (like holsters). It's part of the evolution I guess.

The post I just put up about the controls is my biggest first impression. My 'terminology' is mine, but with this light I call constant on the 'primary mode' and momentary 'secondary'. That to me is by far the biggest thing that jumps out at me so far. The more I think about it the more I like that way of thinking.

There are no extra buttons. I've used some light/lasers where you have to toggle through modes and whatever and I precisely don't like that bullshit. Especially if there are buttons on the side of the light. This one is simple. Simple=Superior in my book especially for something along the nature of this. If I am drawing a concealed carry gun 99.9% of the time it's going to be an emergency and that constant on (primary) of tap it and on (vs a slightly longer hold momentary) is actually shaping up to be a big deal. The more I think about it the more I like it. You got one button.

Anyway as I progress in my learning and impressions I will definitely keep all of you updated.

[Joelski]

Another first impression I have is actually a question. But after thinking about it it kind of makes sense.

The programming 'seems' opposite of what an average joe might think they should be. Meaning, if you tap the control it turns the light to constant on. If you hold it for longer it's momentary.

At first that might seem opposite, but if you really think about it, if you are in a situation where you don't have complete control of things or you simply don't have time and where it's really high stress the quick tap/constant on seems fairly smart. You can turn the light on and be on the trigger really fast.

On the other hand if you run into a situation where you had more time to prepare you can use the momentary switch. The momentary takes a slight bit more of an intentional movement.

I think they did it that way because it's a concealed carry centered light. When you need light you need it now and negligent light discharges are much less of a big deal.

I definitely don't pretend to be an expert in the use of lights but I would think if you have a staged up scenario where a SWAT team is raiding some guy's house the needs for different types of primary control (modes) will be different than if some guy tries to get out of his car and attack me in the street.

With the constant on being the primary go to with this light it's really simple to activate and then be on your trigger in order to gain control of the situation.

That seems intuitive and applicable to any gunfight setting. Look up "Negligent light discharge". That seems to be a focal point of WML usage.


This right here, prevents me from getting the newest lights all the time. I think Dave mentioned it before, I'm tired of getting new holsters.

TLR1HL or the X300, unless there is something crazy good new on the market. I get that these are smaller lights, but I've got a drawer full of TLR6 holsters for my Glock 43's and M&P Shields. Definitely keep posting your impressions, maybe I'll get one.

You have drawers full of that stuff anyway. [:D]


Absolutely. I don't have a ton of hosters for this gun. Just one. I try to be very calculated about stuff (as everyone here knows). It's inevitable though that as I learn more I will need different things (like holsters). It's part of the evolution I guess.

The post I just put up about the controls is my biggest first impression. My 'terminology' is mine, but with this light I call constant on the 'primary mode' and momentary 'secondary'. That to me is by far the biggest thing that jumps out at me so far. The more I think about it the more I like that way of thinking.

There are no extra buttons. I've used some light/lasers where you have to toggle through modes and whatever and I precisely don't like that bullshit. Especially if there are buttons on the side of the light. This one is simple. Simple=Superior in my book especially for something along the nature of this. If I am drawing a concealed carry gun 99.9% of the time it's going to be an emergency and that constant on (primary) of tap it and on (vs a slightly longer hold momentary) is actually shaping up to be a big deal. The more I think about it the more I like it. You got one button.

Anyway as I progress in my learning and impressions I will definitely keep all of you updated.

Simpler is always better. Always. Period. That's why a taser is as far from the look and feel of a pistol as it can get, and is supposed to be worn on the weak/off side.

Stress will f@ck up your days. Train for it.

[alamo5000]

That seems intuitive and applicable to any gunfight setting. Look up "Negligent light discharge". That seems to be a focal point of WML usage.

Simpler is always better. Always. Period. That's why a taser is as far from the look and feel of a pistol as it can get, and is supposed to be worn on the weak/off side.

Stress will f@ck up your days. Train for it.

I have never been in a gunfight so no first hand experience.

Anyway my point about negligent light discharge was that there is a big difference in situations. An average concealed carry person are just going about their own business.

If you are a Navy Seal and we're trying to sneak up on a bomb maker's house in Afghanistan a NLD would alert the neighborhood that you were on the way. Not good. This is a much bigger deal in that situation than having some nutcase run up on you in the Dollar Store parking lot. If someone sees my light at the Dollar Store maybe they will call the cops or help out.

Generally speaking I think the majority of concealed carry could function just fine with only a simple on/off function. The introduction of momentary is just bonus material.

Admittedly I don't know hardly anything so I'm definitely interested in learning more about the use of lights. Those are basically my initial thoughts but I am very interested in getting more information and carrying on the conversation for sure. I'm definitely wide open to learn.

[Joelski]

Keep thinking that. Same logic was applied for not needing a suppressor.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

Keep thinking that. Same logic was applied for not needing a suppressor.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

Hopefully the term "discussion" implies that you will try to educate me beyond a one liner on the internet.

Hopefully I've already established that, 1. I don't know much, and 2. I am definitely open to learning.

Fire when ready.

[Joelski]

You brought up Navy SEALs bud. Granted, a large number of the cc community stick their gun in a glovebox and their head in the sand, but a small number actually seek training that works. For those people, the fact that they don’t have a badge or a trident doesn’t mean they can’t elevate their cognitive and psychomotor capability. I don’t pretend to know very much, but I gave you some things to think about and you poo-poo’d it with the oh-so-tired SEAL argument. If you don’t want to hear my opinion, the ignore button is waiting. Peace.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[alamo5000]

You brought up Navy SEALs bud. Granted, a large number of the cc community stick their gun in a glovebox and their head in the sand, but a small number actually seek training that works. For those people, the fact that they don’t have a badge or a trident doesn’t mean they can’t elevate their cognitive and psychomotor capability. I don’t pretend to know very much, but I gave you some things to think about and you poo-poo’d it with the oh-so-tired SEAL argument. If you don’t want to hear my opinion, the ignore button is waiting. Peace.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I wasn't intending to be a smartass towards you but I'm pretty sure now it came across that way. Sorry about that. It wasn't intended to be a personal swipe or a poke at anyone. I was actually asking you to elaborate and share 'why' because I am very interested in learning.

My question/point 'about Seals' wasn't intended 'specifically' in that way that I think it was taken. It could have applied to any hundreds of groups or situations whether it be certain situations for cops or the military or a long list of other things. I personally have never been any of those and I don't pretend to be.

All I was trying to say was that as I tried to think through things is that in a situation like I tried to describe that a negligent light discharge would be a massive fail and could easily get someone killed. If the bad guys didn't do it [from what stories I've heard] the team mates might do it to whoever messed up. That's how it's always been presented to me.

Anyway it's all in the weeds so (trying to re-focus)... my observation about the controls of the XSC is what matters. With the Surefire 300 series if you tap the control it's momentary only. You have to flip the lever down and push it into place for constant on. It seems (to me) that constant on is a secondary type of operation with that light. Secondary meaning it requires a slight bit more effort to get there.

With the XSC a quick momentary tap is straight to constant on. It's somewhat opposite to the 300 series. With the XSC if you push the lever and hold it for a bit longer it's momentary but activating the constant on feature seems to me to be a lot easier (and faster). Two lights, same company, but seemingly different philosophies about operation.

In my first impressions this seemed to be a very interesting point of discussion.

[alamo5000]

Everyone has a lemon now and then. Report back when you get a replacement.

Less than two weeks including shipping both ways. I sent exactly one email.

It would be great to live in a perfect world but it would be hard to beat warranty service like that.

I am going to carry the Tactician for a while and see which one I like better. Even if I love it I will probably buy another one of some sort. I am definitely starting to become a light geek. The long shelf life of the batteries as well as the exceptional performance that I've had with the four other lights (not including this one) makes them definitely a go to for emergency preparedness.

Basically when a hurricane blows through and you don't have electricity for a week or more and you will appreciate a good flashlight. [BD]

[alamo5000]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I would give an update on the XSC light on my 365XL. I have been using the XSC since May of 2021, so just over a year and a half as of this post.

The light itself is fine. I have had exactly zero problems with it. That said I rarely shoot at night but from time to time I have gone out in the back yard at night (I live way out in the country) and practiced using the light itself, typically without shooting much as I don't want to alarm the neighborhood. If they hear gunshots at night it's pretty likely they will call the cops as it's out of the ordinary. For actually shooting at night I will need to find alternate locations to do that.

Flash forward, and I bought a different pistol (a Sig P322). On a whim I bought an on sale TLR-7A for that pistol. With a suppressor I can shoot that pistol all night long and no one would care. What I immediately noticed about the light itself though was the buttons on the back were in my opinion way nicer that the Surefire XSC. The Surefire buttons are mushy and I feel like I have to hunt for them a little bit. The Streamlight however is very tactile and has more 'meat' to it.

When I was originally looking for the XSC the Streamlight TLR-7 Sub had not been released yet and it had no ETA yet (back then). Also my only real experience with lights previously has been Surefire (of which I now own four different lights). Just my habits, but I was (and in ways still am) partial to Surefire so they started out with more points just because they are Surefire. None the less my curiosity had been piqued when I started using the Streamlight on my P322, so on a whim I bought a Streamlight TLR-7 Sub. Sig uses some proprietary rail so this is the model that can fit on my carry gun.

After doing a head to head comparison I will most likely end up switching to the Streamlight for my EDC on my 365XL. The decision has nothing to do with battery type or life, or the amount of lumens, or even aesthetics. It has everything to do with pure function. To me the Streamlight seems substantially more ergonomic. The gun I carry is small as is, but in my opinion there is such a thing as 'too small'. Surefire made a super sleek light that is smaller and lighter, but it also is not as ergonomic. With the Streamlight the light feels like it gives me a natural place to put my thumb that is just perfect for light activation as well. I don't feel like I am needing to hunt or whatever for the micro size ledge on the Surefire. On top of that I really like the tactile feel of the Streamlight's buttons a lot better than the ones on the XSC.

Yes the Streamlight is slightly bigger, but not annoyingly so, but that small bit of extra size seems to give me a lot better light control. With the Streamlight with my hands in their natural shooting position I can control the Streamlight better without compromising my grip. With the XSC I can obviously activate the light, but it's a noticeable difference between the two, at least for me.

As of right now I will still use the XSC, but as of this moment I plan to eventually switch over to the Streamlight PRIMARILY based on the ergonomics of it.

Don't get me wrong, there are other differences, but for my purposes either light has more than enough output, and I already have extra batteries and so forth. In the video below it goes over a lot more of the technical data in a hands on test comparing the two. Some of the other features seem attractive to me as well (but in the end not really a game changer for my use). The ergonomics though are enough to warrant a the switch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGllfS10cU&lc=UgwO5wM0JpmkEuPwFMl4AaABAg.9jN47f-b0SR9jOliCKqb1v

[BoilerUp]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm happy with the TLR-7A on my 19. Great value.

[alamo5000]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'm happy with the TLR-7A on my 19. Great value.

I never used any other brands until recently, but that shows how little I know. My habits are generally to let others do the vetting and then just stick with what I know. So while yes I like my Surefires I learned a lesson that almost no one is the only game in town. I was pleasantly surprised by all means.

I'm sure there are other things that make Surefire a staple. Their warranty and guarantees are excellent. Any time I ever needed anything (which hasn't been very often) it always only took a single email and cost nothing to correct. Not even a question one has been asked. They just make it right.

For this specific light though I think it would be worth it to do a re-design of the activation buttons. To me it's more than just the 'clicky' nature vs the mushy feel.

With the Surefire if I activate it with my support hand thumb I have two options. If I use the curved textured area of the switch I have to put my thumb down like I am playing thumb war with somebody. If I try to use the ledge just above that, that ledge is slightly better, but it's tiny and I have to slightly move my hand to get activation.

With the Streamlight, the tactile feel of the button aside, where things are located and the shape of the button itself is in a much more natural place and there is more meat to it. In a natural shooting grip your activation thumb just goes to the right spot.

With the XSC if I am using that top ledge I feel like I am using the side of my thumb to sort of rake the switch, whereas with the Streamlight I have a purchase right in the center of my thumb right on the switch without compromising my grip. If I use a similar center of the tip of my thumb on the XSC that little ledge is quite small and hence it requires a little bit of hunting sometimes, or I have to do the thumb war position.

Aside from that I bought the Streamlight shipped to the door for like $130 bucks. The Surefire with one extra battery right now will cost around $360.

8096

[Joelski]

As I've said before, aside from the cool guy factor, SF just doesn't offer enough over the Streamlight to make it worth almost 3x as much. I'm not married to anything but reliability, so thanks for the info. I will keep that under my hat for future purchases.