DMR/Battle Rifle Musings

[Aragorn]

I’ve been kicking around the idea of setting up something of a DMR or Battle Rifle. Figuring something for 0-800’ish and am eyeballing both .308 and 6.5CM.

I’ve never ventured out of 5.56 for AR’s save for one .300BLK, and am thinking about spreading my wings (and my range).

I’m looking at the Scar 17, LMT, V7 Harbinger, SR-25, and even the Desert Tech MDR. Not opposed to other modern suggestions. I’m not looking for a CETME.

This would be for suppressed usage.

I vaguely remember handling an MDR a few years ago and feeling underwhelmed, but the thought of a 20” barreled .308 or 6.5 with a shorter OAL than my 12.5” SBR definitely has appeal.

This was all brought on over time just observing my environment. There’s a lot of opportunity for a 5.56 to run out of steam. I live in the suburbs of north Texas and even if for whatever reason I needed to take a shot down the street, even that’s roughly a quarter mile. Looking around, shots both closer, and more to the point of a DMR/Battle Rifle, further, wouldn’t be hard to imagine. It’s pretty flat around here but there is a lot of both cover an concealment.

What do you all have? What do you like and what considerations should I be taking?

[alamo5000]

I recently built a 6mm ARC. It fits in a small regular size AR but the range is extended well beyond 1k. While I don't have a shorter barrel on mine, 18ish inch barrels could get you to 1,000 yards without a problem.

The idea to have cross compatibly with a bunch of rifles is very attractive. The only parts that are different are the bolt face, barrel, and the mags. Everything else is standard.

Specifically for the role you are talking about it is everything I thought it would be before I built it. I really do like it a whole lot.

If you want to go with a bigger platform there are a ton of options.

[BoilerUp]

I'd only consider the V7 if you wanted to use it for hunting.

I put my money on the LMT MARS-H. They have perhaps the best ambi controls on the market (plus you can get a little brother MARS-L so you have a consistent manual of arms across both), monolithic rails, outstanding barrels, and easy caliber conversions. So, you can easily switch from 16" 7.62 battle rifle to a 20" Creedmoor if that suits your fancy or you change your mind. Also, LMT is releasing a piston 308 (a few of them have already hit the street) if that interests you and you can move back and forth from DI to piston with the swap of a barrel and bolt carrier. I also like that LMT has the builders and civilian community in mind so they selling components/parts, including stripped lowers, in addition to complete rifles. They are even livestreaming Q&A once a month for the past several months (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf99Dkkm8co ). They make all their money on military contracts (https://lmtdefense.com/contract-wins/ ) with current production largely being consumed by the Estonian contract (who is taking the .308 pistons) so the backorders are stacked a year or so deep, but it looks like inventory is starting to get a little better. V1 has a few complete lowers available: https://v1tactical.com/product/mars-h/ (https://v1tactical.com/product/mars-h/). I managed to pick up a 16" Chrome Lined barrel of Gunbroker at a reasonable price and have an 18" Stainless on backorder.

[mustangfreek]

There’s plenty of options in the Ar15 platform that will work for 800 and in, shit even 77’s would work
And 6.5 or 6mm offerings will work and only need a few parts , different from a std 556

But if you want to buy a new rifle.. lots of options.

What optics are u thinking?
Caliber
As ammo and availability is dumb for bigger cartridges.. stdv308 is double what it was 2 years ago, match stuff...ooof,..not so bad if u reload

That H is about 500 too much, u can slowly piece together the same and save $$..lol..just too much to casually shoot and collect dust..that’s me though.

[BoilerUp]

I guess I should add that I also have an Aero Precision M5 (fairly well documented here on WEVO!) with both 18" .308 and 20" .260 Remington uppers, and a 2A Xanthos lightweight build in 7mm-08. Great rifles and the Aero M5 is a great value, but they aren't "battle rifles" if you mean military grade.

And while I stand behind my "voted with my wallet" decision on the LMT, I will say that the Tavor 7 looks pretty darn cool if you really wanted a fighting rifle in .308.

[Jerry R]

I guess I should add that I also have an Aero Precision M5 (fairly well documented here on WEVO!) with both 18" .308 and 20" .260 Remington uppers, and a 2A Xanthos lightweight build in 7mm-08. Great rifles and the Aero M5 is a great value, but they aren't "battle rifles" if you mean military grade.

And while I stand behind my "voted with my wallet" decision on the LMT, I will say that the Tavor 7 looks pretty darn cool if you really wanted a fighting rifle in .308.

GriffonSec has a Tavor 7. We ran it during the Fall Shoot. Accurate, reliable with different loads, actually fun to shoot.

[Aragorn]

Ok. V7 is ruled out. Upon reflection I’m not sure I want another AR style rifle. Not ruled out but would be nice to have something different. Though it seems everything is likely to be pretty long, save for the bull pups.

I hadn’t even known there was a Tavor in that caliber. How well does it suppress?

[Default.mp3]

How do you plan on using this rifle? What mission do you see where a bolt action won't do the trick?

I have an SR-25 CC upper with a SureFire SOCOM762-RC (sits on an LMT MARS-H lower). With the can, it is fucking nose heavy, and makes off-hand shots fairly difficult. Add a WML, and possibly an MFAL, and it gets even more nose heavy, even though I'm using a UBR2 to try and balance it out. As a battle rifle, it'd be splendid without a can, but with a full-size can, running and gunning with it is truly a chore.

I personally see the DMR and the battle rifle fulfilling distinctly different roles, so I'm not sure how much crossover there would be, at least without having to swap equipment around (optics, cans, etc.). I would also hesitate on the small-frame boutique caliber options, simply due to lack of proper duty ammo and considerations on terminal ballistics. Being able to tag a target out at 1000 yards isn't the same as a bullet having the proper velocity to perform as designed out at 1000 yards.

I am annoyed that the Mega/Zev small-frame .308 Win/6.5 CM never really went anywhere. That was my first choice when announced, but it seemed to have disappeared. The MDR also had intrigued me, but from what I've heard, it remains troubled and still has issues to work out, even after all these years.

[Jerry R]

Ok. V7 is ruled out. Upon reflection I’m not sure I want another AR style rifle. Not ruled out but would be nice to have something different. Though it seems everything is likely to be pretty long, save for the bull pups.

I hadn’t even known there was a Tavor in that caliber. How well does it suppress?

We ran GriffonSec's Tavor 7 with my AAC 762SD, and it ran fine with minimal change in POI, and ejection pattern was consistent.

[BoilerUp]

I personally see the DMR and the battle rifle fulfilling distinctly different roles, so I'm not sure how much crossover there would be, at least without having to swap equipment around (optics, cans, etc.).

I think the British configuration of the MWS as the L129A1 was really intended to strike that balance. Compact enough with the 16" barrel to use as a fighting rifle, but accurate enough with a 6x optic for a sharpshooter to be effective 600+ meters out


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PPXgWvR/0/3b80fe85/X2/i-PPXgWvR-X2.jpg

There are plenty of stories of snipers going door kicking with their SR25 but that sure wouldn't be my first choice.

[Aragorn]

Well, I guess what I’m looking for is something versatile enough to grab when you’re not sure what to grab, that can make effective hits (if not tiny groupings) out to 800’ish while also not giving up ground inside 20 yards or across the room. Ideally something more or less handy, though I realize that a suppressed more substantial weapon is kind of at odds with that.

I get what was said about less common calibers, hence leaning towards .308 or 6.5CM.

The MWS looks good, though the MDR and Tavor 7 have really captured my imagination.

[mustangfreek]

Lol
That’s a lot to ask for out of one rifle

My 12.5 308 has been fully reliable, but wouldn’t grab it first, like said above, with can, light on top of a heavy platform, gets ya a heavier, bulky setup

Again, what do you want to truly have, can’t have it all.

Still don’t see why a 556 wouldn’t be the better option..

But hey, if you want to spend money for the hell of it..

[Aragorn]

Lol
That’s a lot to ask for out of one rifle

Ah yes. My great pursuit.

I know the 5.56 CAN get to 800y, but I question its effectiveness once there. Plus you’re looking at a longer barreled version to get there and if I’m looking at going longer then I may as well step up caliber and not question effectiveness at that distance. At least that’s my logic on it. I totally get what everyone is saying about being nose heavy; I’ve noticed that with my SBR when I throw on its suppressor, and it’s a light suppressor. Especially in K config. Plus I just got a light and switch set up to throw on it on a Black Friday deal and so that issue is about to be magnified.

I just can’t help but chase performance though. I want it smoother, I want it lighter, I want it tougher, I want to be able to get to X yards with it, and to do this and to do that etc. etc… and I want it all in one gun for slaying ECP’s (evil cardboard people) and whatever end of the world scenario the internet is salivating over any particular week (read as: general preparedness for any unlikely event). Anyways, I digress.

Plus I can’t really justify another project unless it’s legit capable of doing something better than what I’ve already got, and my SBR has me covered to 400. The mention of the Tavor 7 has my interest. The idea of going bigger and further while being shorter OAL than my SBR has me perking up my ears. Plus I’ve also been interested in something like a SCAR 17 even though those two things couldn’t be much different. Right now I’m just trying to measure feasibility, whether or not I’d actually gain the performance I think I would, and if it’s actually worth the monetary investment.

[Joelski]

Get a FIX.

[Aragorn]

Get a FIX.

Why the FIX?

[Joelski]

Other than being a bolt action, a 16" in 6.5 CM will cover well past the range you want, plus it'll be a shit ton lighter, even with a backup red dot. Still gonna be nose-heavy though.. You don't have to have a super long barrel to reach 1,000+, so that does save weight out front.

[Aragorn]

I just gave it a brief eyeball. Gonna give it a harder look hopefully this evening as time permits.

[tact]

If you are going to throw that kind of money toward The Fix……..an AI is undoubtedly a much better rifle…..plus the simple 30 second barrel change gives you some nice options

[BoilerUp]

I'll drop this here instead of starting a new thread. This has been over 3 years in the making as I've been buying parts slowly over time plus LMT components have been hard to come by over the past few years. The last piece was the NF ATACR 4-16 which was on back order for 6 months and showed up this week and of course the year long wait for the Surefire can. Took it all to the range yesterday and I was very happy with the set up. 16" CL barrel. I also pickup the 18" SS barrel but I'm not sure if I'm even going to take it out of the packaging. I thought I'd want the extra length in the gas system but this shot exceptionally well suppressed. Needs some back-up sights and rail covers, but otherwise gtg. Looks like ~41.9 gr of IMR 4064 in LC brass, FGMM210s and 175 SMK pretty well mimics my M118LR ammo.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NNpSMbn/0/e01b6acf/X3/i-NNpSMbn-X3.jpg

Forgot my rear bag so had to improvise with my woobie.

[Former11B]

Awesome setup. That build is actually attainable unlike a KAC rifle at this point in the market [BD]

41.0gr of 4064 with 174gr in the M118 (LC) shows 2566fps but I’m not sure if that’s data from a 25” barrel…it’s the military’s M118 load data so I assume it’s from an M40 or M24. Any idea what speed you’re getting?


I was actually going to go the other way and try 155gr SMKs and see if I can caress 2800+ fps



Now you just need to break out the spray paint…

[BoilerUp]

Around 2360 fps with 42.0 gr of IMR 4064 or factory M118LR but this is out of a 16" barrel at 38 degrees.

[UWone77]

Nice MWS.

The prices are stupid high now. I remember buying mine for $2200 and thinking OMG, 2k for a rifle!

Sweet setup, I need to get a little higher magnification for mine eventually.

[BoilerUp]

I still want a set of LMT BUIS but don't feel like paying $300+ for them just yet. Got an RMRcc for my birthday and SKD had a sitewide sale that pushed me over the edge on getting the offset mount. Was debating between that or milling my G26, but thought I'd start here. The offset RMRcc seems to work well in my garage, but don't have any range time yet.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GzVdqz2/0/5e5a8f7a/X3/i-GzVdqz2-X3.jpg

[Former11B]

Man that’s a nice setup

[UWone77]

I have a 1-8 ATACR on my MWS. Looking at yours, I should move the 4-16 on there. Sweet setup!

[Uffdaphil]

Big wanna right there. If gold hits $3000…

[BoilerUp]

I have a 1-8 ATACR on my MWS. Looking at yours, I should move the 4-16 on there. Sweet setup!

I debated that in my head for a while. Really a 1-8 or 1-10 is about perfect for this setup, but I know that for most of how I'll actually shoot this I'll prefer the 4-16. I've got an 18" SS barrel and DMR stock to swap over to, as well, which is probably the better fit for the optic and how I'm shooting it, but I like the concept of the 16" do-it-all.

[Uffdaphil]

I’m sorta in your mindset for my .308s: 4.5-18 on the 18” and TA11 3.5” on the general duty 16”.

[Former11B]

I’m sorta in your mindset for my .308s: 4.5-18 on the 18” and TA11 3.5” on the general duty 16”.

I love my TA11. It’s definitely on the heavier side but by far has the best eye relief and FOV of any ACOG I’ve used or owned.

Also my Mk5HD 3.6-18x44 was a fantastic size/weight/mag package. I just didn’t like the PR1-Mil reticle in the one I had after getting time behind it, and I could compromise with the H59 or Tremor but I really wanted the PR2-Mil and am hoping the 3.6-18x gets it but if not, the Steiner T6Xi SCR2 3-18x is on my short list (and Steiners Mil/LEO pricing is wayyyy better than Leupolds)

[TheRifleman]

My TA01B is for my factory Armalite 16 with an RMR T2 offset being ran parallel on an FCD PMA, and the home assembled mutt has a PA 2.5-10x44 something something not made in China glass with an LT104 that has an RMRcc offset on an Arisaka.