Suppressor Upgrade?

[alamo5000]

This is a help me spend my money thread :)

Just wanted to hear from you guys about it before I jump on it.

My first 5.56 can is a Recce 5 Mod 3. I have a Recce 5 Mod 4 as well. And a Recce 7 Mod 4.

The Mod 4 is quieter than the Mod 3 and has less back pressure.

Now Griffin offers an upgrade service to allow me to get the new eco flow baffles on existing cans.

The difference between a regular Mod 4 and the Eco Flow baffles equates to about 3 to 4 DB reduction (and reduced back pressure) from the Mod 4 to the new Eco Flow baffles. That is 3 or 4 DB at the muzzle AND at the ear using their standardized testing seen on YouTube. (Same ammo, same host, same machine, indoor sound booth, all calibrated, etc)

I know I did my 9mm can into the new Eco Flow baffles for that caliber and the difference was definitely noticeable. I'm really glad I did that one.

So, for a 3 to 4 DB reduction across the board on a 5.56 can (and even more than that going from a Mod 3) would you think it would be worth it to upgrade?

The cost I think is just north of $200, maybe $250 if I recall correctly. That would take my Mod 3 up to the very latest generation and if I decide to do the Mod 4 it would be the same thing.

What say you?

I'm thinking about just starting with one, the oldest one (Mod 3) and seeing how it goes from there.

[BoilerUp]

This is a help me spend my money thread :)

Just wanted to hear from you guys about it before I jump on it.

My first 5.56 can is a Recce 5 Mod 3. I have a Recce 5 Mod 4 as well. And a Recce 7 Mod 4.

The Mod 4 is quieter than the Mod 3 and has less back pressure.

Now Griffin offers an upgrade service to allow me to get the new eco flow baffles on existing cans.

The difference between a regular Mod 4 and the Eco Flow baffles equates to about 3 to 4 DB reduction (and reduced back pressure) from the Mod 4 to the new Eco Flow baffles. That is 3 or 4 DB at the muzzle AND at the ear using their standardized testing seen on YouTube. (Same ammo, same host, same machine, indoor sound booth, all calibrated, etc)

I know I did my 9mm can into the new Eco Flow baffles for that caliber and the difference was definitely noticeable. I'm really glad I did that one.

So, for a 3 to 4 DB reduction across the board on a 5.56 can (and even more than that going from a Mod 3) would you think it would be worth it to upgrade?

The cost I think is just north of $200, maybe $250 if I recall correctly. That would take my Mod 3 up to the very latest generation and if I decide to do the Mod 4 it would be the same thing.

What say you?

I'm thinking about just starting with one, the oldest one (Mod 3) and seeing how it goes from there.

They are upgrading welded cans? isn't that basically giving you a new can with your serial number re-engraved, or do they actually break the welds?

I need to upgrade the baffles for my Paladin and Revolution, but I'm not sure I'd mess with the Recce 5.

[alamo5000]

Yes they are doing new baffles for existing users including sealed cans. From a mod 4 to the eco baffles are the numbers that I put up above. Going from the previous generation (mod 3) it should be even better.

It would definitely be like a brand new can. I'm pretty sure they will cut it and re baffle it vs just trying to do a brand new one with new engraving. I don't know if they can legally re engrave a new one with your number on it but who knows.

They have a bunch of new baffle designs that they let existing owners upgrade to. You have to look at their site and see if your can has an upgrade yet.

Definitely the 9mm was a great improvement. Not only do the baffles on the 9mm lock together a lot better than the old ones, it is definitely more quiet.

I described it like this before: can you tell a sound difference between the full length 9mm can and the K version? If so that's roughly the gain in performance from the old baffles to the new ones using the same can orientation.

In my opinion it's definitely worth it for 9mm.

I will probably do just the Mod 3 and shoot it side by side with the others and see if it's worth it to do the others.

[Joelski]

I know that in sound reinforcement, you have to double your wattage to net a 3 db gain in volume. Typical PA systems can range in power from 1,000 watts for a small pub setting up to 100k+ Watt flying rigs at major venues. The moral of the story is sound is horrifically expensive to increase in volume; it seems that your upgrade would be a bargain applying that logic.

This contributes nothing to your quest, but I say fucking go for it! [:)]

This has me wondering if my Alpha/Paladin would qualify for the upgrade. They came out with the ecoflow technology during the time my can was in the AFT gulag and I was pissed to have an obsolete silencer the moment I took possession of it. I know it's not their fault, and the blame lies squarely at the feet of the cool toy gestapo. It doesn't make it a less bitter pill.

[alamo5000]

This has me wondering if my Alpha/Paladin would qualify for the upgrade. They came out with the ecoflow technology during the time my can was in the AFT gulag and I was pissed to have an obsolete silencer the moment I took possession of it.

Yes it does.

https://www.griffinarmament.com/paladin-eco-flow-baffle-upgrade/

[alamo5000]

On a side note I particularly appreciate Griffin taking into account existing users in their business plans/products. It's one thing to get a total new person into the NFA/silencer thing... but existing customers don't have to buy all new stuff with this model, which is a definite plus for consumers.

[BoilerUp]

On a side note I particularly appreciate Griffin taking into account existing users in their business plans/products. It's one thing to get a total new person into the NFA/silencer thing... but existing customers don't have to buy all new stuff with this model, which is a definite plus for consumers.

I agree.

On a side note to the side note, Griffin also just started a discount program for MIL/LEO/First Responders:

https://www.griffinarmament.com/promotions/griffin-general-issue/

[alamo5000]

I agree.

On a side note to the side note, Griffin also just started a discount program for MIL/LEO/First Responders:

https://www.griffinarmament.com/promotions/griffin-general-issue/

That program has been around a long time. Several years at least. I don't qualify for it but it's nice that they do it.

[Joelski]

I never noticed until they had the big flashy splash screen advertising it. Got signed up. It's nice that they, along with other places around the internet include first responders in their program. I haven't had a commission in years, and I never served in the military, but God dammit, I've been putting up with people's bullshit for 35 years!!

[BoilerUp]

That program has been around a long time. Several years at least. I don't qualify for it but it's nice that they do it.

Ah, I didn't realize that it has been around for a while as that was the headline for a marketing email they sent out last week, so I presumed that it was new.

[Former11B]

Ah, I didn't realize that it has been around for a while as that was the headline for a marketing email they sent out last week, so I presumed that it was new.

I didn’t know it either until recently

It says redeem at local firearms dealers. Wonder how that works

I guess I could get my account validated and figure it out lol

[alamo5000]

I didn’t know it either until recently

It says redeem at local firearms dealers. Wonder how that works

I guess I could get my account validated and figure it out lol

I think you send in your credentials to Griffin and they approve you for the program. After that whatever dealer you prefer to use will also have to sign up for the program. I'm pretty sure it includes a contract about pricing and who can participate etc.

Once you and your dealer are signed up and approved they will form 3 the can (s) with a pre agreed upon price under a legally binding agreement so they don't abuse it.

If another dealer in your state has already signed up they might just go through them.

I'm almost 98% sure you can use it with Silencer Shop as well.

[Joelski]

Or I can just buy it and form 3 it to my local class III dealer.

[alamo5000]

The Recce 5 upgrade is now available so I will probably send my oldest can in to get the newly upgraded baffles.

I don't have a firm timeline for sending it in, but maybe within the next week or two is probable.

They said it can take up to 30 days to receive the can back. Hopefully it lives up to the billing.

[Former11B]

I’m very curious to see how the upgrade is.

I’d like to do it but reeeeeally want to know how the new ones sound and perform etc

If it trimmed even a little bit of weight that would also be awesome but just a bonus

[alamo5000]

I’m very curious to see how the upgrade is.

I’d like to do it but reeeeeally want to know how the new ones sound and perform etc

If it trimmed even a little bit of weight that would also be awesome but just a bonus

I have my first Recce 5 in a box ready to go. Got super busy the last few days so I haven't sent it off yet.

If you are patient I will let you know in about a month or so how it goes.

In the first post above I referenced some numbers...

[Former11B]

I have my first Recce 5 in a box ready to go. Got super busy the last few days so I haven't sent it off yet.

If you are patient I will let you know in about a month or so how it goes.

In the first post above I referenced some numbers...

The numbers on paper look good but I really want someone’s first hand experience

I’m not sending it off until my Nomad LT comes in so I’ve got about 8 more months I think

[alamo5000]

The numbers on paper look good but I really want someone’s first hand experience

I’m not sending it off until my Nomad LT comes in so I’ve got about 8 more months I think

I will let you know in about a month. I just placed the order today.

I hope it works out good too...I know this is a 5.56 can I am sending in, but if my 9mm can is any indication I am not that worried. I can honestly say that I am STILL extremely glad that I sent my 9mm can in for the upgrade when it became available. Seriously, on the 9mm can the difference was big (in a good way). I can only hope it will be the same for this one.

[alamo5000]

Suppressor is officially gone back as of today, February 16 via FedEx.

They said it can be up to 30 days to get it done (after they get it), which is fine. I'm not in a hurry and I have a spare 5.56 can as well as my Optimus Micro to hold me over.

I've never shot 5.56 through my Micro yet so this might give me an excuse to try it.

None the less my policy of having two cans per caliber is very nice.

[alamo5000]

Got notification today that my suppressor upgrade is done. Less than two weeks total turnaround time. It's scheduled to be delivered back to me on Saturday.

[alamo5000]

I've had my suppressor back for a couple of weeks. Honestly I haven't had a ton of time to shoot recently but I did put a few mags through it on two different hosts so this is my first impressions only. I shot it on my 10.5" and my 16" rifles.

Normally I shoot suppressed about 100% of the time and with 5.56 I am always wearing ear pro. That fact alone (that I wear ear pro) is the only factor that even puts a little bit of hesitation in this equation for me. If I am wearing ear pro all the time is (or rather was) it worth it?
On balance I would say I am glad I did it for a number of reasons.

I am not a high volume shooter and I have multiple cans so my baffles were nowhere near being worn out. I just like the idea of an upgrade and so far it hasn't disappointed. I shot the guns just before sending off the can, and two weeks later when I got it back I got some ammo from the same bucket and tested the revisions trying to keep everything constant.

So far the biggest thing that jumps out is on my 10.5" it was very noticeably quieter at the ear, like a lot quieter. I took a single shot without ear pro on and it was much quieter from that aspect. I went from a Gen 3 Recce 5 to the latest baffles and they are not kidding when they said it was 'improved'. That said I am always wearing ear pro (except for really rare instances) so that's the only thing that made me hesitate to do it. On balance I am glad I did it. If there ever is some kind of absolute emergency where I don't have time to go get some ear pro on it is definitely going to be better.

The workmanship was extremely good. The welds are absolutely flawless. I think they use some kind of automated robotic laser welder now and it shows. That part is quite impressive actually on how it turned out. They do also refinish the can so it is literally like getting a brand new suppressor. The only thing (cosmetically) that changed isn't really worth mentioning but in the interest of full disclosure here we go. Where the front cap transitions to the tube body there is now an ever so slight ledge now whereas before it was kind of rounded at that transition point. It doesn't look bad at all. I spent 6+ years staring at that can and that is literally the only thing that is cosmetically different than what it was before. And as I already said the welds are flawless by anyone's standards.

Hopefully I can get more time using it, particularly in different conditions. The day that I shot it it was slightly windy outside and in my experience that helps prevent getting gassed out. When a really calm day comes around I will try to induce gas to the face but I have a feeling that too will be in general reduced a bit vs before.

In the three graphics attached, one is from Silencer Shop's tests using a lot older equipment and a 16" gun. That lists the ear number at 144DB. The other two is going from Mod 4 to the latest baffles. The regular Mod 4 shows an at the ear sound of 135.98 DB at the ear on a 16" gun. The latest baffles and using the same ammo and same testing equipment shows a 131.98 DB reading.

At least in theory those videos show a 12 DB reduction at the ear from the generation just prior to mine (in the Silencer Shop video it was a Gen 2 and mine was a Gen 3). 12 DB at the ear is A LOT. Going from Mod 4 to now it shows a drop of 4 DB.

With all that in mind I can confidently say that the ear noise from what I had to now is down by around to 6-8 DB, and probably a bit more (but that's all academic). All I know is it's CLEARLY quieter at the ear.

7967
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[alamo5000]

The basic summary is this:

If you have a Mod 3 or older (if it's eligible to upgrade) then it's worth it. If you have a regular Mod 4, it's not worth it. I did have a Mod 3, and I do have a regular (pre eco-baffle) Mod 4. I won't be upgrading the Mod 4. Not enough evolutionary change or improvement to make it worth the cost to go from Mod 4 to the eco baffles.

[Former11B]

Sounds like I need to send mine in.

Did the weight change any?

[alamo5000]

Sounds like I need to send mine in.

Did the weight change any?

I didn't weigh it but I don't think so. If so it was very minimal.

[Former11B]

I sent this write up over to my neighbor and he’s already purchased the upgrade from griffin. Is planning on shooting his Mod3 Recce 5 over the weekend on a 10.5” and 16” along with his YHM Turbo to see how it sounds after the baffle swap is done.

I am gonna try to get mine done before the summer

[alamo5000]

I sent this write up over to my neighbor and he’s already purchased the upgrade from griffin. Is planning on shooting his Mod3 Recce 5 over the weekend on a 10.5” and 16” along with his YHM Turbo to see how it sounds after the baffle swap is done.

I am gonna try to get mine done before the summer

That's awesome. I am glad to have helped even if in some little way. I definitely don't have any complaints so far.

[alamo5000]

I sent this write up over to my neighbor and he’s already purchased the upgrade from griffin. Is planning on shooting his Mod3 Recce 5 over the weekend on a 10.5” and 16” along with his YHM Turbo to see how it sounds after the baffle swap is done.

I am gonna try to get mine done before the summer

Do you have any update as to this? Going through old threads looking for something and saw this.

[BoilerUp]

Just got my Paladin 300 back from GA with the upgrade. They only had it for a few days, so pretty happy with the turn around time. I had minor damage to a baffle so this was a convenient way to address that and get the product improvements. I mostly run this on my 300 BLK SBR so will try to get it out for testing soon.

Separately, I didn't realize the Paladin is rated for 300 Win Mag, so I have a question out to GA if it's ok to run with 300 Norma Mag as my other .30 cans are not.

[alamo5000]

Just got my Paladin 300 back from GA with the upgrade. They only had it for a few days, so pretty happy with the turn around time. I had minor damage to a baffle so this was a convenient way to address that and get the product improvements. I mostly run this on my 300 BLK SBR so will try to get it out for testing soon.

Separately, I didn't realize the Paladin is rated for 300 Win Mag, so I have a question out to GA if it's ok to run with 300 Norma Mag as my other .30 cans are not.

I would think it would be fine. I looked up load data on Hodgdon's website and the PSI/CUP data is pretty similar. That said I would definitely ask GA directly.

Win Mag has pressures up to 64K PSI on some loads. Given that is the MAX out of all loads on their site.

Norma Mag on the other hand (based on their tests/data) tops out a little over 60K PSI on certain loads.

In other words, in terms of pressures (based on Hodgdon's data) Norma Mag is a slight step DOWN in terms of pressure from the Win Mag (on average, considering all the load data they published).

Edit: Please let us know how it turns out when you shoot it (comparing to the older baffles).

[Former11B]

Just got my Paladin 300 back from GA with the upgrade. They only had it for a few days, so pretty happy with the turn around time. I had minor damage to a baffle so this was a convenient way to address that and get the product improvements. I mostly run this on my 300 BLK SBR so will try to get it out for testing soon.

Separately, I didn't realize the Paladin is rated for 300 Win Mag, so I have a question out to GA if it's ok to run with 300 Norma Mag as my other .30 cans are not.


What barrel lengths on the 300 Norma?


If it’s a rifle length barrel, not an SBR type thing (which I doubt), you’ll be fine. I PMd a GA employee on another forum and posed the scenario and the 300 Norma was given the go ahead

[BoilerUp]

What barrel lengths on the 300 Norma?


If it’s a rifle length barrel, not an SBR type thing (which I doubt), you’ll be fine. I PMd a GA employee on another forum and posed the scenario and the 300 Norma was given the go ahead

Thanks for that. It's a 26" barrel (Barrett MRAD). I'm going to order the Barrett Mk 22 / AML338 suppressor for it anyway, but have been considering putting the Paladin on it while I wait. But, then I'm just blowing another bill on the MD, so I'll probably just wait.

[BoilerUp]

Well, received two conflicting responses from GA, below. Not sure why he thinks the neck diameter on the SAMI drawing matters. I have the older version of the can so perhaps they beefed up the design on the new model. I ordered the Barrett Mk22 can, so will wait for that.

First, on the 22nd I received this:


Good Afternoon,
Yes, .300 Norma Mag is fine to shoot through the Paladin HD
I hope this has helped answer your question. If you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to ask. Thank you for your support.

Respectfully,

-CS Team

and then four days later I received this:

Hello,

Unfortunately, 300 Norma Mag is not a compatible round for the Paladin 30. The neck diameter of the 300 Win Mag is 0.339", which is slightly smaller than the 300 Norma neck diameter of 0.342" the Paladin 30 is only rated up to 300 WIN MAG. If you have any questions, let me know.

Respectfully,


-CS Team

[Former11B]

The guy I asked was actually one of the owners of the company FWIW