KAC wins UK contract

[BoilerUp]

KAC wins UK contract to provide L403A1

https://soldiersystems.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/hunter-posters.png

I find it funny that it comes with MBUS Pros

[gatordev]

I'm assuming that optic is a photoshopped place holder?

[TheRifleman]

Nope that's the real deal rifle. I saw this week or two ago and didn't think to post because of how slow things are in here [BD]

And I agree, having the BUIS set on a fixed ring set is l-o-l. The offset set or even better the reversible offset set from MI would have been the better choice. I wonder why they omitted the QD on that URX6 free float. It's not aluminum that would wear out under service conditions and it's stainless steel that can be removed and replaced so this is rather puzzling.

But that Vortex short 1-10 I am indeed curious of. Hopefully it doesn't weigh as much as an Abrams like all the other Vortex mid and higher end LPVO's.

[Joelski]

Those dimples tho.... [Melt]

[Former11B]

Royal Marines IG account showing the RMCs with the new rifles set up just like the above:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cw4W7E-tyId/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[gatordev]

Royal Marines IG account showing the RMCs with the new rifles set up just like the above:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cw4W7E-tyId/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Ugh, that's frustrating. Every picture is either from the front angle or too far away to see the optic. For something that short, I'm curious how small the eyebox is.

[UWone77]

Ugh, that's frustrating. Every picture is either from the front angle or too far away to see the optic. For something that short, I'm curious how small the eyebox is.

You know that's going to be super unforgiving... like NF 2.5-10x24 unforgiving...

[SINNER]

But they have a great warranty..LOL..I wouldnt put that trash on a plinking rifle.

[BoilerUp]

Looks like a version of the Razor. I haven't shot the Razor 1-10 but I've read some pretty good reports on the eyebox.

I don't understand the h8 on Vortex. Yes, they have cheap stuff from China in their broad lineup, but the Razors have proven themselves and even won a US Army contract for the glass (based on the Razor) on the XM7. Now, if the UK got a Strike Eagle then I'll jump in on making fun, but the Razor is a solid choice, IMO.

[TheRifleman]

The hate is from people who thrive off of gun board drama.

I'll admit that The Razor line is great glass. However it's still too heavy, too heavy to be on a rifleman's rifle which is just my personal opinion here. However if you're not living at the range all day, not having to carry it all the time, then it may be okay. But as a rifleman, I need a lightweight rifle.

[gatordev]

Looks like a version of the Razor. I haven't shot the Razor 1-10 but I've read some pretty good reports on the eyebox.

I don't understand the h8 on Vortex. Yes, they have cheap stuff from China in their broad lineup, but the Razors have proven themselves and even won a US Army contract for the glass (based on the Razor) on the XM7. Now, if the UK got a Strike Eagle then I'll jump in on making fun, but the Razor is a solid choice, IMO.

Sinner likes what he likes, and hates what he hates. None of us can change that.

The Razor 1-10 eyebox is relatively unforgiving at 10x, but better than a NX8. At 8x, it's fine. I find the ATACR 1-8 to be slightly more forgiving. Both have their strengths.

(not so) Amusingly, I installed a second 1-10 the other day in your NF mount. Install went much quicker since I had another 1-10 to match position on the receiver. After I torqued everything down, I undid the receiver cross mount bolts to do something (I can't remember what) and got distracted for a minute and then picked up the rifle off the vise. Down went the scope onto the cement garage floor. Oof. Well, at least there's a warranty...

I brushed off the mark, scowled at the small dent that formed on the end of the tube, and finished installing it. When I went to zero it, the then did a tracking test. I could only go to 2.5 mils on the test, but everything still tracked. So it can't be that bad.


The hate is from people who thrive off of gun board drama.

I'll admit that The Razor line is great glass. However it's still too heavy, too heavy to be on a rifleman's rifle which is just my personal opinion here.

It's the same weight as all of the other optics (~21 oz). Same weight as the Elcan, ATACR, VCOG, or a G33/EXPS combo (+/- an ounce). Admittedly, the mount adds another 5 oz or so, but it's tough to get greater than 4x that weighs less. I get your gripe, as the two requirements I've always looked for on a LPVO is an actual day light bright dot in FL sun and weight reduction, and I certainly don't need to hump it for miles, which I understand would matter to someone with your background.

But for what's out there in that class, it's competitive.

[TheRifleman]

Just some thoughts about this rifle. But before I say anything, I hope that this serves the UK well.

I think that the recce configuration whether intentionally chosen or not to be a recce, is the future for every rifleman. The selling points are PID, more precise aiming so lessening the chances of any collateral casualties and reducing even further blue on blue. They have a piggybacked dot for both urban terrain ops as well as NVG supporting for passive aiming when going up against near peers and you just don't want to emit to let them them know where you exactly are.

I question both the 13.7 barrel length and why they went with the URX6 because a 12.5 is a further reduced silhouette and outline that has almost identical velocities shooting both M855 and M855 when compared to a 14.5. And the URX is timed using shims that has no anti torque features and can be bumped out of alignment (BTDT with mine), with a gas block that cannot be pinned in place and has to be installed after the URX is torqued and timed to specs. I mention this because it's going to make field repairs from their 3rd level maintenance a depot level job really and I doubt that there will be floaters available as spares to assign and issued until the end item has been made serviceable again and returned to the property book owner. This is not something that you want to forward deploy troops to like combat outposts in the middle of nowhere and no immediate CS and CSS stationed with other than maybe an attachment of an ad hoc force.

Just my opinion here though.

[BoilerUp]

The Razor 1-10 eyebox is relatively unforgiving at 10x, but better than a NX8. At 8x, it's fine. I find the ATACR 1-8 to be slightly more forgiving. Both have their strengths. Ah, I presumed the concern was the eyebox at 1X. You know, where it actually matters. If I'm taking shots at 10x (or even at 6x on the Gen II) I just expect I'll need to be in a good stable position.

I absolutely love my Razor Gen IIe 1-6x24 with JM-1. Zero at 200 yards and you get point blank red dot from 0-200 yards and effective holds from 300-600 yards. Yes, it's a bit heavy in a Bobro QD, but so much capability. The only thing really holding me back on the 1-10 is red dot performance at 1x with the reticle in the 1-10, which I don't think is as good as the near-RDS capability of the 1-6 (just from playing around with the gen III in the shop).

I'm still trying to decide if I can get over the ATACR's rotating ocular. At a minimum, it's annoying as hell, especially if you're trying to use flip up caps. At even with Mil pricing on the NF, it's really hard to justify the cost premium over the Razors.


(not so) Amusingly, I installed a second 1-10 the other day in your NF mount. Install went much quicker since I had another 1-10 to match position on the receiver. After I torqued everything down, I undid the receiver cross mount bolts to do something (I can't remember what) and got distracted for a minute and then picked up the rifle off the vise. Down went the scope onto the cement garage floor. Oof. Well, at least there's a warranty...

That is totally something I would do - I feel for you. Happy with the mount, I presume?

[gatordev]

The only thing really holding me back on the 1-10 is red dot performance at 1x with the reticle in the 1-10, which I don't think is as good as the near-RDS capability of the 1-6 (just from playing around with the gen III in the shop).

You are correct, it's not as bright due to the design. I only have one ATACR, and it went into NF for servicing early on for it's dot. Apparently the first batch way back when had a dying dot problem and mine was serviced under warranty. Supposedly it's fixed now, but I'm wondering if it quickly developed a problem again. It's just not as bright on setting 10 as the Razor. Not the end of the world, as it's still bright enough, however it also is less forgiving if you're off axis from the center, so it "fades" to being less bright slightly faster than the Razor 1-10. The 1-10 does this as well (as you've seen), it's just not as pronounced as quickly, at least compared to my sample of one ATACR. And mind you, we're talking a difference of a millimeter here. It's kind of like complaining if a hot girl has long hair or short hair.

All that said, the Razor is still very bright in the bright Florida sun.


I'm still trying to decide if I can get over the ATACR's rotating ocular. At a minimum, it's annoying as hell, especially if you're trying to use flip up caps. At even with Mil pricing on the NF, it's really hard to justify the cost premium over the Razors.


The included scope caps mostly make up for that, since the ocular cap is free-wheeling. I still have to bump the cap a click or two to a better place if I'm planning to go from 1x to 8x quickly (like at a competition). But usually it will eventually hit the right side of the receiver and then just start spinning so it doesn't prevent you from adjusting the actual mag.

As for cost, honestly, that's why I got another Razor. Well, that, and I got a smoking deal on this last one that was even under all of the .mil pricing by $100-ish. I do kind of feel like the ATACR is the better scope, but that may just be due to round count and exposure. The Razor definitely has some niceties, maybe even more so since my ATACR reticle is the original one.


That is totally something I would do - I feel for you. Happy with the mount, I presume?

Yes! I sent you a message, but not sure if it went through. As usual, I forgot to take a picture while at the range zeroing, so here it is in its domestic setting. I think the purple in the Razor brings out the doodoo brown of the NF mount. (And before I get publicly admonished, the Aadland caps are on order)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53193527196_695771db09_h.jpg

[BoilerUp]

Nice HK. I bet that's a hefty setup. Man, that just *barely* clears the mechanical housing. You got lucky it fit as clearly NF was only concerned about it working on their optics.

[TheRifleman]

How are the Nightforce optic mounts? Not much gets said about them.

[BoilerUp]

How are the Nightforce optic mounts? Not much gets said about them.

The UltraMounts are pretty new. Similar to Geissele, Badger, etc. Designed for the NF scopes with very little clearance for the mechanical housing so be careful if using on an optic other than NF. Seen in the wild in SOCOM usage - I took these at Ft. Lewis earlier this summer - I am pretty sure they are both NF.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Travel/2023/JBLM-Airshow-Thunderbirds/i-HG6GXzd/0/a29a9c30/XL/IMG_2344-XL.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Travel/2023/JBLM-Airshow-Thunderbirds/i-LCFx2MR/0/8bccd69f/XL/IMG_2347-XL.jpg

[TheRifleman]

Thanks. I've been planning on saving up for one of their 1-8 short LPVO's as they are both very light and durable. The mount I am looking at on their site shows the weight for the clip-on height to be 5.9, while my go to is the badger same height at 6.6.

I will be chasing as much weight off without sacrificing performance to have my GOAT setup. As I said before, I believe that the mini recce is our future in that regard because everybody wins, making the red dot guys, night vision guys, LPVO guys, assaulter guys needing super stupid tall heights, and precision guys extremely happy along with the hunters.

[gatordev]

Nice HK. I bet that's a hefty setup. Man, that just *barely* clears the mechanical housing. You got lucky it fit as clearly NF was only concerned about it working on their optics.

Thanks. It's really not that bad. It's lighter than my M4B2 (by 1 oz) with the same basic setup (albeit with a BO mount). That barrel has the M4 profile, so it pretty much feels like a standard M4 with a Razor on it, just slightly nose heavy due to the gas block. Obviously when you start putting a can and bipod on it, it adds up, but that's true for other setups.

I didn't understand the reason on why you were selling it when I bought it from you. After the install, I get it now. I'm glad it worked out. There was still just a little play of rotation when I put it in the mount. If it hadn't worked out, I guess that would have been an excuse to go buy an ATACR, right?


How are the Nightforce optic mounts? Not much gets said about them.

I previously had a NX8 in a NF Unimount on that same rifle. It held up great and was 5.5 oz. Mated with the NX8, total weight was 24.05 on a kitchen scale. The ATACR will obviously be a couple ounces more. Picture for attention, even though it's a Knight's thread...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49164005133_e19e7e5c93_h.jpg

[Joelski]

Not recent news but I was surprised to see the OG M-110 is still pulling contract dollar's.

https://www.guns.com/news/2022/08/25/knights-armament-secures-15m-army-m110-contract

[TheRifleman]

lol, now we know why parts have dried up. The MoD and DoD just bought out their entire production capacity.

[BoilerUp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee8LvSwDSEY

The BB markup / editing toolbar is gone...anyone know what happened?

[TheRifleman]

There's a lot of influence going on there with the "bloody damn USA and their horrific and stupid 2nd Amendment" on that rifle and kit being worn. Not nation bashing but when your own country's mil is being influenced on training that we do for sport with two gun matches, and the associated equipment that came about from a strong 2A industry and having to buy from them because you stymied your own nation's industry and shooting sports, this is what happens.

Anyway, that's a very capable rifle and they did their homework well.

[BoilerUp]

The Royal Marine makes an interesting comment around 6:10 that he likes how the "weight is forward" (i.e., the center of gravity is up ahead of the magwell compared the rear-heavy weigh of a bullpup). I always thought the rear CG of a bullpup was supposed to be an advantage.

[BoilerUp]

There's a lot of influence going on there with the "bloody damn USA and their horrific and stupid 2nd Amendment" on that rifle and kit being worn. Not nation bashing but when your own country's mil is being influenced on training that we do for sport with two gun matches, and the associated equipment that came about from a strong 2A industry and having to buy from them because you stymied your own nation's industry and shooting sports, this is what happens.

Anyway, that's a very capable rifle and they did their homework well.

Ha! Foreign Militaries are really just LARP'ing as US pro-2A citizens! Those RM's did kind of look like they just watched some Taran Tactical youtube videos....

[TheRifleman]

Ha! Foreign Militaries are really just LARP'ing as US pro-2A citizens! Those RM's did kind of look like they just watched some Taran Tactical youtube videos....

You know what? If they are then they're at least trying learn and evolve, and be a better rifleman which should be the ultimate continuous objective to overcome. Talking to the choir of course, just venting at the Institutionalized inbreeding of NATO's armies and that includes our own, especially with the appeals to their authority fallacy.