Tapping the brain trust here...

[alamo5000]

I am wondering if anyone knows of AR buffers that are shorter in OAL than standard ones? Ideally in a variety of weights as well.

Let me know if you know. Thanks.

[Stone]

For what application? The only one I know of is LWRC's https://www.lwrci.com/LWRCI-UCIW-Buffer_p_153.html AND https://www.lwrci.com/LWRCI-UCIW-Buffer-Spring_p_154.html AND https://www.lwrci.com/LWRCI-UCIW-Receiver-Extension_p_152.html As far as weight goes its easiest to just pop it open and swap them around yourself.

[alamo5000]

For what application?

I don't want to beat the new BCG like a dead horse but I want to test out one of its other features just to see if it makes a difference.

It has a shorter gas key than normal which allows it to travel farther back by around 1/4". It's supposed to delay bolt opening a little bit. If you run a regular buffer length it works like a normal one in that regard.

I looked all over last night until late and finally found something that could work. It's a 308 heavy carbine buffer.

A regular buffer is 3 1/4" long and the one I bought is 2 1/2" long. There is about an extra 1/2" but hopefully it doesn't matter.

Another thing complicating the search is my 6 ARC is really over gassed. I got my barrel custom made back when there was a big component shortage so I opted for a few features that contributed to the gassing of it. At the time it was a new round so I was kind of guessing a little bit.That said it runs really good now but it did take some time to tune so I don't want to totally start over.

Right now it has a H3 buffer that I weighed myself at 5.33oz. The one I bought is advertised as 5.6oz.

Long story but it's an experiment. If you are interested I will keep you posted in the results.

[BoilerUp]

Yeah, the short 308 buffers are all that comes to mind, but if it's too short you end up with the bolt hitting the lower receiver. I made this mistake when I used the 308 short buffer in an Armalite tube. I'd say you could shave a 1/4" off the plastic part of a standard buffer would be safer, or maybe bubba up a shortened buffer with a saw. But I think you are chasing something that you won't even notice, practically.

[alamo5000]

Yeah, the short 308 buffers are all that comes to mind, but if it's too short you end up with the bolt hitting the lower receiver. I made this mistake when I used the 308 short buffer in an Armalite tube. I'd say you could shave a 1/4" off the plastic part of a standard buffer would be safer, or maybe bubba up a shortened buffer with a saw. But I think you are chasing something that you won't even notice, practically.

I agree with you that it might be a very minimal difference if anything, but I did let curiosity win this one. It's a $50 test.

I did think about grinding off some of the rubber bumper on my buffer but I want to keep it like it is until I can prove otherwise, or that it's worth pursuing.

When you said hit the lower receiver I'm guessing you mean the gas key hit near the extension tube? Did it hurt or damage anything? That would be extremely helpful to know before I start messing stuff up.

In any case this new BCG is designed to allow that travel. The gas key is physically shorter than a standard one. I will try to post pictures below.

[alamo5000]

8241

8242

[Aragorn]

Taccom buffers are split into a front and back buffer. Also cheap. Might be easy to cut or shave the rear as it’s just polymer.

[alamo5000]

Taccom buffers are split into a front and back buffer. Also cheap. Might be easy to cut or shave the rear as it’s just polymer.

Got a link?

[alamo5000]

I got to thinking about it and I have some very heavy duty plastic sheets laying around. I think they are made of HDPE, which is pretty rugged stuff, at least for testing with.

I can use that to make some spacers. Put a spacer in the buffer tube then put the spring in afterwards. My sheets are .75" thick but it won't be any problem to get some 1/2" if needed.

None of that would be reciprocating but just taking up some space just in case over travel becomes an issue.

[Joelski]

That 1/4" of over travel could wind up costing you a lower receiver. I'd shorten a standard length buffer enough to use the stock bumper and make up the weight difference with tungsten slugs.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[alamo5000]

That 1/4" of over travel could wind up costing you a lower receiver. I'd shorten a standard length buffer enough to use the stock bumper and make up the weight difference with tungsten slugs.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

I wasn't sure if I needed to post this thread but now I'm definitely glad I did. I would rather be safe than sorry.

I got a little bit of that HDPE sheet that is 1/2" thick that I will cut a small disc out with a drill press. It's kind of like delrin with chemical resistance and better impact strength. A solid piece of that in the buffer tube as a spacer should be good to go. It was only $9 shipped and it's enough for about 5 rifles.

If I busted a lower because I didn't get a sub $2 part I would have been pissed.

Again, this is just straight up experimentation. Whether I actually run that rifle like that forever is TBD. The cost is minimal to let me scratch my mental itch.

[BoilerUp]

Ah, now that I think about it, that was on a large frame where the forward part of the bolt carrier is larger than rear. I dinged up the edge of threads on a lower (for the extension) when I had the wrong buffer/tube combo, which is little more confusing on the large frames given the Armalite vs DPMS length buffer tubes. But, yes, in a small frame you might risk the key striking the lower. I'd have to play with it.

Another option is put on an A5 buffer tube / receiver extension, then use a trimmed-to-length plug in the extension. JP provides Delrin plugs with their Silent captured Spring system to accommodate certain scenarios:
https://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSCS-SPACER
https://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPSCS2-SPACER-A5

[alamo5000]

I got my new buffer and spacer made. It was super easy to make BTW with just a drill press.

I didn't have a lot of time to shoot a lot but just a few rounds for function testing.

Immediate impression is that it shoots a lot softer. It wasn't bad before but it's a lot softer now. I inspected everything and there was no damage at all so I guess that's a win.

On the sound mitigation side of things, I'm still amazed at that BCG. I did 5 shots without any ear protection using full power ammo. Obviously it was overall louder because of the supersonic crack, but to the shooter it was actually about as comfortable as decent subsonic 300BLK. I've for sure shot some 300BLK subs that are way louder (IE Remington green box) to the shooter than my 6 ARC is now. This is talking only about at the shooter not overall sound. That Remington 300BLK ammo will ring your ears, but with my ammo and set up in my 6 ARC there was zero discomfort at all.

I will caveat that with my rifle that I am talking about is not 5.56 and it has a longer than average barrel for an AR.

On the flip side, I need to inspect my rifle a bit more for other random things going on. My 6 ARC ammo needs to be checked out as well.

I grabbed a random 6ARC mag and I guess I have a few rounds that were loaded a hair too long. There is a tiny little lip on the mag I used today. The tips of my ammo were getting hung up so maybe I need to seat them a little deeper. The mags are metal so there is a slight chance that something got bent a little bit.

Also it seems like I am having some sort of issues with my stock as well. It's the Magpul PRS Lite stock. It seems like the stock is interfering with the charging handle. There is almost no clearance there. I did notice that it had come loose so when I get a minute I will try to reinstall it and see if that helps. I might swap the charging handle out and see if that helps as well.

Overall the function is good. Not sure if the slightly heavier buffer (.4oz) or the delayed unlocking is helping more on the softer shooting aspect.

[Stone]

Glad to hear you didnt blow yourself up! A few of us were concerned... When you built it did you stake the castle nut? Just curious.

[alamo5000]

Glad to hear you didnt blow yourself up! A few of us were concerned... When you built it did you stake the castle nut? Just curious.

The castle nut is rock solid. If you look at the design of that particular stock it sleeves the entire length of the buffer tube to make essentially a fixed stock. There is a cross bolt that indexes off the position channel on the tube to hold it in place. That cross bolt is what came loose. I put some blue loctite on it this time so hopefully it stays put.

The top of it where the charging handle is at is just thick plastic. I can pull the charging handle back but there is less than 1mm of clearance. I examined things and swapping a charging handle won't help vs what I have now. It's just the design of it. About the only way to add clearance is to sand down that part of the stock.

I would consider swapping the stock to something else but the only criteria I hope to get is to have a good bag rider design. I like the way it looks with the Magpul PRS Lite but I'm willing to explore other options.

[BoilerUp]

The Magpul PRS Lite was one of the shortest time periods I had ever used a Magpul product to determine I didn't like it. If I want a true PRS / DMR stock, LMT DMR is the way for me (all the adjustments plus it mounts off a carbine buffer tube). For a fighting carbine, SOPMOD is the way for me. If I need something in between, like a recce build, then the Magpul STR is my choice. If my cheeck weld doesn't put my eyes behind the optic, I fix the optic mounting solution. One of funniest things in the shooting community right now is people using high optic mounts and then adding stock risers.

Alamo, are your running an Adjustable Gas Block on this 6ARC build?

[alamo5000]

The Magpul PRS Lite was one of the shortest time periods I had ever used a Magpul product to determine I didn't like it. If I want a true PRS / DMR stock, LMT DMR is the way for me (all the adjustments plus it mounts off a carbine buffer tube). For a fighting carbine, SOPMOD is the way for me. If I need something in between, like a recce build, then the Magpul STR is my choice. If my cheeck weld doesn't put my eyes behind the optic, I fix the optic mounting solution. One of funniest things in the shooting community right now is people using high optic mounts and then adding stock risers.

Alamo, are your running an Adjustable Gas Block on this 6ARC build?

Do you mind posting some links to those stocks you mentioned? In fact any others are welcome to. The only criteria is for a more generous bag rider to be present.

The PRS Lite looks cool but I've had mixed feelings about it for a while. I just got sidetracked and never visited it again.

[alamo5000]

Alamo, are your running an Adjustable Gas Block on this 6ARC build?

Yes. I have an SLR gas block. A 24" rifle length gas 6 ARC is almost like trying to tune a 10.5" SBR.

[gatordev]

If you want multiple adjustments, I'd also take a look at the B5 adjustable stock. I believe it fits on a carbine stock, as well.

BoilerUp, like you, I keep the optic lined up with the stock on regular ARs (I like the ACS for my precision guns), but the risers can be helpful on something like a SR-25 (depending on your body mechanics) or the M27 if you're doing prone work (it has a weird 1.8-ish" height with a standard mount).

[alamo5000]

I did a Google search for possible replacements and I found something that would definitely work and will probably be a decent replacement. It's the new Magpul PR stock. They apparently have two. One is the MOE PR and the other is called DT-PR. It has the bag rider feature that I want for this rifle. I have to read up on the differences between the two versions.

Also I see that several other companies are now making "add ons" to regular stocks that are bag rider attachments. So there are options now, at least more than before.

8243

[alamo5000]

https://youtu.be/kWUjxqZLZ1I?si=Sq0u_ZzI825eE9sr

[BoilerUp]

BoilerUp, like you, I keep the optic lined up with the stock on regular ARs (I like the ACS for my precision guns), but the risers can be helpful on something like a SR-25 (depending on your body mechanics) or the M27 if you're doing prone work (it has a weird 1.8-ish" height with a standard mount).

Very well, ! I shall allow it! Ha! Yes, for precision shooting one should definitely dial it in, presumably why all these precision style stocks have it built in. I find that I typically don't play with that feature much and am usually fine with it all the way down, but I also have a huge head! I was mainly poking, tongue in cheek, at the door kicking LARP crowd.

Alamo, yes, I agree that new PR stock from Magpul looks promising.

The LMT/B5 SOPMOD is my favorite stock, but it is horrible with a bag, so I agree that a decent bag rider is important for anything I mostly or frequently shoot prone.

The LMT DMR is great, just expensive. I think every one I own I've picked up used. Note they make 556 and 762 versions - the riser has been moved aft on the 762 version to clear the longer CH. I love that I can pop it off quickly and easily if I want to reconfigure the rifle.

https://i0.wp.com/lmtdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Stock-DMR-Product-Image-PNG-1.png?fit=591%2C515&ssl=1

Here is a 556 version on my SPR-ish build with 20" Rainier UltraMatch

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kZVQrVh/2/L7vFRvfwR6tSjMNMmP2VPcR9dv7hgx3bdR6QQ6Gkc/XL/i-kZVQrVh-XL.jpg

I haven't played with the new-ish B5 precision stock. It likely works well and is at an attractive price point. I do find it a bit ugly, though.

The Magpul STR is a nice compromise, IMO. It has the wider cheek weld I prefer, similar to the SOPMOD (and which seems to be missing from that new PR stock), but the design is workable with a rear bag, so I think it works well on a recce style builds or even hunting rigs where you may be shooting offhand or prone/supported. Here is one on a .308 large frame build:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jf253Xg/0/KHjDzDgmPchMkWC6GSG2rvLTTmDv65SXsTGrS3dpc/XL/i-jf253Xg-XL.jpg

[BoilerUp]

I like the ACS for my precision guns

Oops, just noticed this. I've never played with the ACS, but it looks like the critical-to-me features (wide cheek rest, spot for bag, and carbine buffer mounting) are pretty similar to the STR. The ACS weighs about 2 oz more, so that's probably what's kept me away from it. I tend to count ounces even on my heavy guns, so every added ounce needs to buy me something I value and I stopped looking once I found that the STR met my needs. Do you keep Skittles in that little door thingy?

[alamo5000]

The Magpul STR is a nice compromise, IMO. It has the wider cheek weld I prefer, similar to the SOPMOD (and which seems to be missing from that new PR stock)

It apparently has cheek pieces that you click on the stock so you can customize it how you want. Not sure if they come included or not but I will know soon enough.

I went ahead and placed an order for the DT-PR version. I figured I'm not going to start liking the PRS Lite more as time goes on. Just straight off the bat the new one gives me what I have plus stuff I want.

[alamo5000]

Just Googled it and they said the new one is compatible with CTR cheek risers.

[gatordev]

Oops, just noticed this. I've never played with the ACS, but it looks like the critical-to-me features (wide cheek rest, spot for bag, and carbine buffer mounting) are pretty similar to the STR. The ACS weighs about 2 oz more, so that's probably what's kept me away from it. I tend to count ounces even on my heavy guns, so every added ounce needs to buy me something I value and I stopped looking once I found that the STR met my needs. Do you keep Skittles in that little door thingy?

We seem to continue to be on the same page. I really like the SOPMOD cheek weld, and like you, also find it it annoying with a bag. For a more RECCE rifle, I've used the STR as well since it scratches all of those itches you mentioned.

The STR wasn't out back when I started using the ACS on two dedicated precision guns 12-14 years ago. The ACS also gave me the longest LOP at the time, so it allowed me to run it one click in from fully extended when prone. I run the SOPMOD and STR all the way out when prone, one click in otherwise. Since I'm 80% torso and arms, LOP is always something I'm fighting to get proper eye relief while also not bending my trigger arm in half. Setting this "standard" early on has let me put pretty much any lower I own on any upper and everything being in the right place for eye relief.

I think I put earplugs in the little door thingy at some point, but no snacks.

[Aragorn]

How well do these work if you generally shoot NTCH? The LMT in particular? I’m interested but it looks like the cheek rest is pretty far aft.

[BoilerUp]

How well do these work if you generally shoot NTCH? The LMT in particular? I’m interested but it looks like the cheek rest is pretty far aft.

Not a problem with the Magpul STR or the LMT SOPMOD, but not going to happen with the LMT DMR. The DMR stock really anticipates a magnified optic where you'll want 3-4 inches of eye relief, so it sets you back a bit. That (plus weight) might be why the Brits stuck with the SOPMOD on their L129s as the eye relief on the 6x ACOG is under 3"?

I "grew up" NTCH but have been slowly drifting away since I'm a HWS fanboy. I don't run my stock all the way out, but kind of in the middle. About the only time I run closer and NTCH now would be if I'm on classic irons (carry handle) or behind a TA31 ACOG which has super short eye relief.

[Aragorn]

Maybe I need to try branching out. Historically all my non-ACOG non-Elcan optics have required a cantilevered optic mount like a LaRue SPR-E (which is no longer made), so they ride pretty far forward. I’ve got a Trijicon TenMile for an upcoming project and have the items to make myself another cantilevered mount, a BCM riser and Nightforce rings.

[BoilerUp]

That's true. I could move most of L/MPVOs forward on the rail and run NTCH if I wanted, especially on my LMTs with monolithic rails. I should probably play around with that bit as moving them forward would greatly help with CH access, but then it interferes a bit with comfortable LOP. I've generally had to move to large latch CH where I've got MPVOs.

Edit: Actually, looking at my SPR-ish build, above, even with the cantilevered mount, I don't have much room to move forward with the XTR III on a traditional AR upper.

[alamo5000]

I got the new stock. In short I like it a lot better than the PRS Lite. That said the LOP adjustment range is about 1" less than the PRS Lite. (Actually according to Magpul it's 1.1" less at max extension).

I was going to see if they have spacers for the butt bad but then I saw that it's compatible with some existing lines of stocks. I ordered one of those and it adds 3/8" to the LOP which is within .1" of where I was with the other one. Overall it was a good move.

I shot a couple of mags from 100 to 300yards which is all the distance I have at the house. 30 rounds total without ear protection.

The only hiccups I am having now is my bolt seems to be hanging up. I'm fairly certain that I have it isolated to the mag(s) I was using, one of which had never been used before. The springs in them are TIGHT. Getting the last round in was difficult on both. Seating them in the rifle was difficult as well. At least for now my thoughts are to shoot it more and maybe leave the mags loaded to help loosen them up.

[alamo5000]

I forgot to mention that I seated my bullets a bit more and that solved that. I guess when I loaded that box of ammo I left them long for some reason.

As far as the bolt hang up goes without the mag it's ok smooth wise. Not as smooth as my other rifles that I've shot a lot more but it's getting better.

Overall the rifle actually has a very low round count on it. At the most it has maybe a couple hundred rounds total and that new bolt has less than 50.

I will load some more ammo for it and put some more miles on it to wear the new off of everything.

[alamo5000]

Follow up to the original thread... I did have a small issue. That issue was that loaded magazines would not seat in the gun.

I think I figured it out -- my buffer spacer that I made was too thick. On paper everything added up correctly but in reality I forgot to account for stuff, not sure exactly what, but I think it's fixed now.

When I pulled the charging handle all the way back it didn't allow for a full rear travel. Lock back was actually catching on the carrier not where it was supposed to be. As a result the bolt was interfering with the magazine, or rather the ammo in the mags.

I ground down my buffer shim just enough to allow more rearward travel and now everything is catching where it's supposed to. I will try to do some testing later today, but I'm pretty sure I figured it out.