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Broad Arrow
11 June 2009, 22:11
Hi. Picture request for anybody who have the following set-up -

1. DD lite rail 10.0 with 10.5" barrel
2. DD lite rail 14.0 with 14.5" barrel

Thanks.

dragondoc
11 June 2009, 22:17
Here is a link to a post Stickman put in another forum showing his Hoveske setup.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=236151

Cameron
11 June 2009, 22:18
10" on 10.5"
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/LMT%20CQBR/CQB3.jpg

my other lite rails are 12" on 16"

Cameron

Broad Arrow
13 June 2009, 02:20
Very nice! That is exactly what I wanted to see. I think the 10.5 barrel looks better with 10" rail than the 9" and you just confirmed what I thought. Thanks for sharing.

BTW, do you think the front end of the DD 14" rail with 14.5" barrel will look the same as your 10"/10.5"?

Broad Arrow
13 June 2009, 02:27
Here is a link to a post Stickman put in another forum showing his Hoveske setup.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=236151

Thanks for the link. I saw Stickman's Noveske set-up. If I guess it right, I think he has the 14" rail with 18" barrel?

spamsammich
13 June 2009, 04:44
Very nice! That is exactly what I wanted to see. I think the 10.5 barrel looks better with 10" rail than the 9" and you just confirmed what I thought. Thanks for sharing.

BTW, do you think the front end of the DD 14" rail with 14.5" barrel will look the same as your 10"/10.5"?


That combo is too front heavy in my opinion, balances weird unless you put an EMOD or SOPMOD stock on it or some other heavy stock.
Then:
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/LMT%20and%20Noveske%20stuff_files/IMG_3968.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/Guns%20are%20Fun_files/IMG_2015.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/LMT%20and%20Noveske%20stuff_files/IMG_3971.jpg

Now:

http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/AR%20parts%20for%20sale_files/IMG_1604.jpg
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/AR%20parts%20for%20sale_files/IMG_1609.jpg

Broad Arrow
14 June 2009, 01:32
[QUOTE=spamsammich;10589]That combo is too front heavy in my opinion, balances weird unless you put an EMOD or SOPMOD stock on it or some other heavy stock.
Then:
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/LMT%20and%20Noveske%20stuff_files/IMG_3968.jpg
Now:
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/AR%20parts%20for%20sale_files/IMG_1604.jpg

Thanks for the pictures. I can see what you did. I was hoping to have a look similar to the 10"/10.5' with only the flash suppressor visible but I guess it can only work on shorter barrels. The 12" rail and 14.5" barrel looks very nice also. Are you satisfied with the balance now?

BTW, if you know, I can still use the Noveske KX3 with the 10" rail + 10.5 barrel combo, right?

Thanks :)

spamsammich
14 June 2009, 11:50
I"m much more pleased with the overall balance, it's amazing what a difference a couple inches make when you've got lights, vfg, etc hanging off the end of the gun.

Not all 10" rails are created equal, the the DD Lites are almost 10.25" IIRC as is the Mk18 RIS II (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong). I do know that with the DD M4 rail, the KX3 will actually clear the rail so even if it does run a little long, you shouldn't have any problems. You may have to use a strap wrench to attach it though if you put it on last.

Stickman
14 June 2009, 14:55
With the DD M4 series rails a Novekse KX3 will fit inside.

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_0974%20Stick.jpg


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_0964%20Stick.jpg

Broad Arrow
14 June 2009, 18:10
@spamsammich - thanks for your comments

@Stickman - thanks for the pics. How come the M4 13.5" is not posted in DD's website? Are these custom order lengths? However, if I had to go with the non-continuous top rail handguard, I think I prefer LaRue better than DD. But with your 13.5 pics, I am loving it :) Can I request for a full side view picture, both sides, that is if you have any. Thanks.

Cameron
14 June 2009, 18:43
That combo is too front heavy in my opinion, balances weird unless you put an EMOD or SOPMOD stock on it or some other heavy stock.

Then how can she do this with my 16" HBAR with a 12" rail??


http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/cameron_personal/Shooting/JenGun07.jpg

spamsammich
14 June 2009, 19:48
You're killin me Cameron, killin me. But my opinion still stands, a 14" rail with a 14.5" barrel doesn't make for a well balanced combo without a heavier stock like an EMOD.

Stickman
14 June 2009, 21:07
@spamsammich - thanks for your comments

@Stickman - thanks for the pics. How come the M4 13.5" is not posted in DD's website? Are these custom order lengths? However, if I had to go with the non-continuous top rail handguard, I think I prefer LaRue better than DD. But with your 13.5 pics, I am loving it :) Can I request for a full side view picture, both sides, that is if you have any. Thanks.





The DD 13.5 was something I came up with a few years ago, John from Rainier Arms liked the concept, and had them custom made by Daniel Defense. The 13.5 was a nice configuration, but the 14.0 Lite rail ended up being an option that covered rifle length gas blocks, and it ended up switching over to that.

The rail in the picture went to Drake, and can be seen in the Magpul training video AOTTC II. Disk 2 at 39.46 shows it nicely, as well as other views throughout the series.



ETA- Switching over to the 14.0 was Johns idea based on the idea of covering the block, and is how that rail came into creation.

Stickman
14 June 2009, 21:16
Here is a picture of Drake shooting his carbine with the 13.5 rail. I should point out this is NOT my picture, but it was sent to me by Drake and is used with his permission.


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/image015%20WEVO%20hosting.jpg

Broad Arrow
14 June 2009, 22:35
@Stickman - thank you for the picture. That is the look I envisioned when I asked about the 14" rail with 14.5" barrel and also with the KX3. What is the comment of Drake? Is it front heavy?

Here is what I intend to do - I'm trying to have 2 upper builds with the following components:

1. DD AR Lite 10 rail and Noveske 10.5" + KX3
2. DD AR Lite 14 rail and Noveske 14.5" + KX3 or Smith Vortex

Do you think they are matched well? BTW, I have the Magpul CTR as my buttstock and I will eventually add a light and VFG on the rails. Thanks.

spamsammich
15 June 2009, 13:47
I would strongly recommend against the KX3 and the 14.5" barrel. Realize that the KX3 is about a half a pound, then imagine it hung out at the end of that barrel. Clearance will be tight with the Lite rail because the threaded portion of the barrel sits within the rail. See my picture of the Phantom flash hider and 14" rail for reference, that is an LMT 14.5" barrel. I found that combination a little too front heavy for my liking unless I had a heavy stock. In my opinion, a pig on the end of that gun will be even worse. Lastly, the KX3 is intended for barrels around 12.5" and lower. It has been rumored that Noveske himself recommends against using it with anything above a 12.5" barrel. I've seen it used with a 13.7" barrel but that combination is basically just to get the gun to legal length so it is not an NFA item.

I just realized that you're intending to use the CTR. That is a horrible match for the 14.5" barrel and 14" rail in my experience. The reason why I went with a 12" rail was I wanted to run MOEs and CTRs on my light guns.

Keebsley
15 June 2009, 16:46
With the DD M4 series rails a Novekse KX3 will fit inside.

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_0974%20Stick.jpg


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_0964%20Stick.jpg

What's the barrel length in this pic? 10.5?

Broad Arrow
15 June 2009, 17:45
I would strongly recommend against the KX3 and the 14.5" barrel. Realize that the KX3 is about a half a pound, then imagine it hung out at the end of that barrel. Clearance will be tight with the Lite rail because the threaded portion of the barrel sits within the rail. See my picture of the Phantom flash hider and 14" rail for reference, that is an LMT 14.5" barrel. I found that combination a little too front heavy for my liking unless I had a heavy stock. In my opinion, a pig on the end of that gun will be even worse. Lastly, the KX3 is intended for barrels around 12.5" and lower. It has been rumored that Noveske himself recommends against using it with anything above a 12.5" barrel. I've seen it used with a 13.7" barrel but that combination is basically just to get the gun to legal length so it is not an NFA item.

I just realized that you're intending to use the CTR. That is a horrible match for the 14.5" barrel and 14" rail in my experience. The reason why I went with a 12" rail was I wanted to run MOEs and CTRs on my light guns.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I guess I should stay with the DD Lite 12" and 14.5" barrel + Smith Vortex then. Will this be okay with my CTR?

spamsammich
15 June 2009, 18:29
That's pretty much what I'm running. I'm a small guy and the rifle in this configuration causes me no troubles. A Vltor EMOD balances it out a little better once I have lights/vfg and xtm's in place, but not enough to make me want to run with it. I'm actually running this with a MOE stock and grip and like it.
http://web.me.com/supermarkus/iWeb/Site/AR%20parts%20for%20sale_files/IMG_1604.jpg

Stickman
15 June 2009, 18:55
What's the barrel length in this pic? 10.5?


11.5 IIRC.

Broad Arrow
15 June 2009, 22:33
@spamsammich - thanks for explaining. If this is going to be my final configuration, we would have very similar builds :) If you were to choose, what stock balances best with this set-up? As I understand, I can't use the Magpul UBR because it has a different tube than CTR/MOE (unless I buy another set. ouch!!!) and Vltor looks too busy for me :(

spamsammich
16 June 2009, 10:43
A Vltor modstock or LMT SOPMOD (expensive!) would also work pretty well. A lot of people are turned off by the EMOD's looks but they just hold so much stuff. Have a look at complete Noveske low profile N4 rifles to get an idea of how the modstocks look. I've been considering getting one of them because I like the cheek weld so much. If you have no need for carrying things like extra batteries, weapon lube, spare parts, etc on the gun, the MOE or CTR should do just fine.

Broad Arrow
16 June 2009, 18:38
I really like the SOPMOD also but I'm staying away because of the price :) Will just try the CTR first and see how it goes. Thanks.