reducing cyclic rate??? [Archive]

rob_s

13 July 2009, 05:49

full auto or semi-auto?

In truth, the parts are pretty much the same, but it's far more relevant in FA than SA. Generally speaking, in terms of user-replaceable parts, heavier parts like a FA BCG vs. SA, and H, H1, or H2 buffer in place of the carbine buffer as well as a stiffer spring can all affect "cyclic rate", but you also run the risk of causing malfunctions if you get too heavy/stiff.

Stickman

13 July 2009, 07:35

The post of Rob_S is worth reading twice, it covers things nicely.

lamarbrog

13 July 2009, 11:46

My understanding is that a cyclic rate that is too fast can potentially cause extraction problems. Torn rims, torn cases, etc.

A cyclic rate that is too slow can cause short stroking.

Unless you're running a full-auto and want to change the cyclic rate for reasons of controllability... If it isn't broken, I wouldn't really try to fix it.

Ideally, though, your cases should be ejecting to about 3 o'clock. Ejecting forward means the buffer is lighter than it needs to be, ejecting rearward suggests a buffer that is too heavy.

Broad Arrow

14 July 2009, 01:41

Reason I'm asking is because I read somewhere in the net about a particular manufacturer (forget what it is now) that has a patented cyclic rate reduction system. It claims great controllability during full auto fire. It also states that by trigger control, the shooter has the means to shoot 2 or 3 burst. Anybody heard about this? And if somebody knows the brand/manufacturer, pls help me refreshmy memory :)

rob_s

14 July 2009, 04:22

cebuboy

14 July 2009, 07:48

Ahh yes the famous patented rate reduction system (sliding auto sear)...

federalist22

14 July 2009, 16:48

So you have a FA gun that you're looking to slow down, or....?

Sounds like some of the crackpot claims you'd hear from Enidine with their "rate reducing" buffer. Huge POS and I've pulled more than a few out of malfunctioning guns and replaced them with a C or H and had the gun run just fine after that.
Rob,

By the way, thanks for the advice on the Enidine Carbine Buffer, the one that prevented my bolt carriage from locking to the rear on the last round--smooth cycling, but poor function. Went back to the standard buffer and it now works perfect. Thanks.

Broad Arrow

14 July 2009, 16:59

So you have a FA gun that you're looking to slow down, or....?

Sounds like some of the crackpot claims you'd hear from Enidine with their "rate reducing" buffer. Huge POS and I've pulled more than a few out of malfunctioning guns and replaced them with a C or H and had the gun run just fine after that.

It's not Enidine. It was a complete "system" though I don't know what was modified. Just can't remember the name....

Broad Arrow

14 July 2009, 17:00

Ahh yes the famous patented rate reduction system (sliding auto sear)...

you know about this? care to elaborate? thanks :)

cebuboy

17 July 2009, 18:44

Yup, there is a mod to the bolt by Ferfrans which is called the sliding auto sear which delays the release of the hammer thereby reducing the cyclic rate during full auto fire. This system is being adopted by the Philippine National Police specifically the Special Action Force who requires a fully controllable fully automatic 5.56 platform.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk153/cebuboy/ferfrans/DSC_2032.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk153/cebuboy/ferfrans/DSC_2033.jpg

federalist22

17 July 2009, 20:08

Interesting. Sorry if I have nothing more to add, but definitely interesting.

Broad Arrow

20 July 2009, 05:20

[QUOTE=cebuboy;11334]Yup, there is a mod to the bolt by Ferfrans which is called the sliding auto sear which delays the release of the hammer thereby reducing the cyclic rate during full auto fire. This system is being adopted by the Philippine National Police specifically the Special Action Force who requires a fully controllable fully automatic 5.56 platform.

Thanks cebuboy for helping. It was Ferfrans that I read about before. Just to clarify, the only thing that was modified/changed was the bolt?

Mr.Goodtimes

20 July 2009, 05:38

that thing looks like reliability problems waiting to happen. what happens when the gun gets filthy and the sliding auto sear stops sliding?

seems like a buffer is a much more simple and reliable way to take care of that problem.

cebuboy

21 July 2009, 03:21

[QUOTE=cebuboy;11334]
Thanks cebuboy for helping. It was Ferfrans that I read about before. Just to clarify, the only thing that was modified/changed was the bolt?

Basing from the specimens that I have observed, the heart of their rate reduction system is that modified bolt carrier.

cebuboy

21 July 2009, 03:22

that thing looks like reliability problems waiting to happen. what happens when the gun gets filthy and the sliding auto sear stops sliding?

You have to go ask Ferfrans :)

Broad Arrow

21 July 2009, 05:25

[QUOTE=Broad Arrow;11364]

Basing from the specimens that I have observed, the heart of their rate reduction system is that modified bolt carrier.

Thanks. Change the bolt and you get a standard rifle.....

that thing looks like reliability problems waiting to happen. what happens when the gun gets filthy and the sliding auto sear stops sliding?

seems like a buffer is a much more simple and reliable way to take care of that problem.

It does seem like it.....