American Spirit Arms?

[laytex1]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this site. I currently own a M&P15OR that I just finished free floating with a YHM diamond cut spectre length rail, low profile gas block, upgraded to a Vltor Emod stock and has a Eotech 512 on it. It also has an Ergo Grip and I use the Grippod for range sighting. I might be taking my first carbine course next month...(ever heard of Warrior School?)

I am looking to purchase my second rifle, most likely going to be a DD M4, which I am days away on moving on. So I walk into this gun store (happens to be the best tactical accessory store in Tucson, AZ), and they just sold their last one over the weekend.

I am told by the gun store owner and other employees that I should just consider building my own and it would be "JUST AS GOOD AS THE DANIEL DEFENSE." They could build me one from parts made my American Spirit Arms and put a Omega rail on it and it would be just as light and functional. I'm sitting there thinking....I barely have heard of ASA (maybe twice), they aren't even ranked on the M4 chart. I don't believe they MP inspect any of their bolts or barrels at least according to the owner. Then I asked him if he had seen the M4 chart that most people on AR15.com, WEVO, and M4Carbine.net point to as a good resource and he says, "No, you get a lot of 14 yr olds on those sites that don't know what they're talking about."

I was also talking about internet sites that sell rifles, to which one of the employees said, "its illegal to sell rifles over the internet." [crazy] I point to my MP15 which I happened to have with me..."I got this over the internet.".....silence....and confusion on the face.

They also refuse to acknowledge that much of the rifle buying has slowed down and feel that other shops that are reducing prices because of dropping demand are not making good business decisions. They have a Bushmaster sitting on their rack for 1150 and a MP15A for 1250. [BD] I'm thinking WHAT?!?!

Nevertheless, he tells me that the DDM4 is an awesome rifle and that I would enjoy it if I got it. Quoted me a great price (similar to some of the best prices I've seen), and I might call him up tomorrow and get it ordered. As it is the very best place for tactical accessories, I don't have much of a choice if I wish to purchase locally. However, I can always purchase it over the internet [:D].

...But I'm just wondering how good a company is American Spirit Arms?

[Stickman]

"No, you get a lot of 14 yr olds on those sites that don't know what they're talking about."




...But I'm just wondering how good a company is American Spirit Arms?


I find myself in agreement with him on the first comment there. The internet is filled with people who post things they are unaware of, or worse. The level of ignorance on many firearm boards is appalling. The comments made are astounding, and the insulting behavior is uncalled for.

In NO way do I mean those people who are new, asking honest questions, looking for help, or are unaware of things. My irritation lies with those who post without first hand knowledge, and act like its the gospel truth.


As far as ASA, their reputation is less than stellar with the components I've observed. On 2 or 3 different occasions I've watched their BUIS fall apart when LEO were using them. This wasn't abuse or getting slammed into something during patrol operations, this was items falling apart under recoil of the weapon.

The DD carbine is a fine weapon, though they had some growing pains.

[laytex1]

I find myself in agreement with him on the first comment there. The internet is filled with people who post things they are unaware of, or worse. The level of ignorance on many firearm boards is appalling. The comments made are astounding, and the insulting behavior is uncalled for.

I totally agree with you there. I mostly take to heart the advice of the moderators (I try to read all your reviews and threads) and other "experienced" posters (Pat Rogers etc.). I have had to sift through a lot of bad things to find the good. As a civilian who has no military or LEO experience, the opinions of well informed military/LE persons are so critical to those of us trying to learn (just started shooting in 11/2008 post election and I love it).

In NO way do I mean those people who are new, asking honest questions, looking for help, or are unaware of things. My irritation lies with those who post without first hand knowledge, and act like its the gospel truth.


As far as ASA, their reputation is less than stellar with the components I've observed. On 2 or 3 different occasions I've watched their BUIS fall apart when LEO were using them. This wasn't abuse or getting slammed into something during patrol operations, this was items falling apart under recoil of the weapon.

The DD carbine is a fine weapon, though they had some growing pains.

Care to elaborate on which ones? I did a search and read something about improper castle nut staking on a few of the rifles. Are there any other issues and are the problems corrected at this point?


By the way, thank you for taking the time to answer!

[Mr.Goodtimes]

just because a gun isnt on the chart doesent mean that its not a good weapon. there are probably quite a few small companies out there building awesome M4's that arent on the chart.

[Army Chief]

just because a gun isnt on the chart doesent mean that its not a good weapon. there are probably quite a few small companies out there building awesome M4's that arent on the chart.


In principle, I would agree with this assessment. In actual practice, I might make the case that quality tends to get noticed, so the number of small-time operations turning out top-shelf rifles may be somewhat smaller than we're imagining.

The evidence for this, once way or the other, tends to be anecdotal, so there is a lot of room for good natured debate. That said, I believe what we've actually seen is a lot more small companies trying to turn a dollar on a hot product by making hobby grade guns, since they tend to be building to the bottom line, rather than a specified standard.

Not saying I'm wholly persuaded one way or the other, but for the most part, if someone is out there doing it right, someone else in this community probably knows about it. By far the greater challenge lies in avoiding those shops who overpromise and underdeliver -- and there are all-too-many of them.

AC

[Mr.Goodtimes]

In principle, I would agree with this assessment. In actual practice, I might make the case that quality tends to get noticed, so the number of small-time operations turning out top-shelf rifles may be somewhat smaller than we're imagining.

The evidence for this, once way or the other, tends to be anecdotal, so there is a lot of room for good natured debate. That said, I believe what we've actually seen is a lot more small companies trying to turn a dollar on a hot product by making hobby grade guns, since they tend to be building to the bottom line, rather than a specified standard.

Not saying I'm wholly persuaded one way or the other, but for the most part, if someone is out there doing it right, someone else in this community probably knows about it. By far the greater challenge lies in avoiding those shops who overpromise and underdeliver -- and there are all-too-many of them.

AC

i could defenately agree with this!

[Eric]

I am told by the gun store owner and other employees that I should just consider building my own and it would be "JUST AS GOOD AS THE DANIEL DEFENSE." They could build me one from parts made my American Spirit Arms and put a Omega rail on it and it would be just as light and functional. As light...I'll buy that. Just as good...I have a hard time believing that one. Also, DD is a well known manufacturer that will stand behind their product and will be around for a long time. What kind of warranty/support will you get with a parts gun put together by an unknown. ASA has a spotty record and isn't exactly an industry name that pops info my head when I think buying a weapon to rely on.

[aflineman]

I have had an ASA stock (A2) on one of my rifles. While it worked, it did not feel or look anywhere near MIL Spec. I don't know if I would have wanted to "push" that stock very far in a field situation. I just don't trust it to have held up. For occasional pinking, it would probably worked OK. I do feel that there are better stocks out there for the price. This is my opinion from only one of their products. YMMV

[12131]

The DD carbine is a fine weapon, though they had some growing pains.
Problems with the DD carbine, Stickman?

[Stickman]

Nothing to get taken out of context.