Build or buy?

[Liljake82]

Perhaps this has been asked before but I'm in the delima where coming up with the jack for an AR isn't feasable. I have been saving but now I'm thinking about buying parts and just building as I can afford parts. Is this going to be cheaper in the long run or would I be better off saving up and buying the gun I want?

[Uglyduck]

Save up and buy a kit and a lower. Get a buddy with some experience to help you build the lower if you're not familiar with the assembly. You can save some $$ depending on your preferences over buying one assembled. I would do this over buying piece by piece just to save on shipping costs and spare myself the frustration due to lack of patience while waiting for each component.

[Eric]

Buying what you want the first time and building your own can save you money. Even if you just buy a complete upper and a complete lower, you will often realize a savings. However, keep in mind that you won't end up with a factory warranty on a parts gun.

[Stickman]

Nothing wrong with buying as you get the free funds. Make sure you get the lower first, everything else is just a part and can be purchased online and mailed to your residence.

[federalist22]

Buying a base model rifle for $750-$1000 and then modifying it as funds are available is one way to go, and you start out with something tangible. The problem here is that you will replace many parts on the rifle. You can either keep the parts as spares, or sell them on GunBroker or eBay if you like. I tend to sell my old GI stocks and grips and get about $35 for them after the shipping and seller fees--it's not much, but I don't want them taking up space and the money is reinvested in the rifle.

Building a rifle can be fun, but also expensive because you will want to make sure you get the best part for your money, for each major part, which can run up your tab. However, the other posts above are right. You keep costs down if you can keep your "wants" under control. WEVO is a great resource to help you find the right parts you are looking for--the first time.

[rob_s]

I'll take the dissenting approach.

I hear all the time that "building lets you get exactly what you want". Great! Wait, since I have virtually no experience with an AR, how is it that I know what I want again?

My take is that the best thing for any new buyer to do is to buy a Colt 6920 and get out and shoot it. Don't go get rails, stocks, widgets, gizmos, bipods, doodads, etc. Get an Aimpoint in a quality mount, a good two-point sling, 10 quality magazines and 2k rounds and go take a class from a quality instructor (Pat Rogers, Randy Cain, Louis Awerbuck, etc.). Come home and get involved in local shooting events that let you apply what you learned at the class, and THEN start worrying about what you might need to bolt on to the gun, or what you might "need" that is "better".

That said, I also understand the budgetary issues of buying all of the stuff at once. My first AR was bought in three pieces; upper, lower, BCG. If that's all you're doing, I still advocate doing things that way and you can still get a great gun with some smart shopping. What you have to resist is the temptation to add whiz-bang stuff in the process. Thoughts like "well, since this complete upper doesn't come with handguards I may as well go ahead and add the $300 FF rail system" should be banished from your head. And that thought's more retarded cousin of "well, this $100 FF rail is just as good" even further banished.

As long as the term "build" is limited to snapping some handguards on the upper, dropping a Bolt/carrier group into the upper with a charging handle, and snapping the upper and lower together, then I'm in favor of it as a fist-time buy. The idea of building up a lower from scratch with a stripped lower, a lower parts kit, a $200 stock, etc.? Not so much.

I'll also be a bit odd and suggest that you buy the magazines and ammunition first. GI magazines are fine, even more so with Magpul followers, and are $10/ea from Bravo (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-Magazines-p/magazines%20dh%20gt30mf.htm). Pmags are nice at $15/ea as well, but since you can get three GIs for the price of two Pmags, I'd stick with the aluminum magazines. If you budget $150 for 10 Pmags, that'll get you 15 GI mags.

Any quality carbine will also run Wolf just fine. I shoot it in my Colts and BCM all the time, for hundreds of rounds without cleaning. Ammoman.com is at $270/1k rounds (shipped) right now which is about the best deal you're going to find. Get 2k. Slip200 EWL (http://www.slip2000.com/slip2000-EWL.html) is also your friend.

My suggestion for the "buy as funds become available" carbine goes like this, and is paraphrased from an article on my site here (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/59827.html):
$475 BCM barreled upper (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm)
$350 BCM complete lower (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&keywords=&searchstart=9&template=PDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html&category=BCOM)
$160 BCM BCG (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm%20bolt%20carrier%20group%20auto%20mp.htm)
$20 RRA mid-length handguards (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Mid-Length-Handguards-Black-p/handguards%20mid%20length%20black.htm)
$24 BCM charging handle (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Charging-Handle-BCM-p/bcm%20charging%20handle%20ar15.htm)
$140 Troy folding rear sight (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Troy-Folding-Battle-Sight-REAR-p/troy%20rear%20sight%20-%20rear.htm)
$1,169 TOTAL functional carbine ($1,084 if the Magpul MBUS (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-MBUS-Rear-Back-Up-Iron-Sight-Black-p/mag246%20black.htm) is used in place of the Troy)

Add in an Aimpoint C3 in a quality mount which can be had for <$500 and you're set.

So, buying on a budget, in order...

$150 in GI magazines
$270 for 1k rounds
$270 for another 1k rounds
$350 BCM lower
$475 BCM upper
$205 = $160 BCM BCG + $20 handguards + $25 charging handle
$100+/- rear sight of choice
<$500 Aimpoint in mount

Somewhere along the way work in a good sling, and maybe a pistol grip to replace the A2 that comes on the gun (trust me on this one, it's the one upgrade that's the least expensive and your hand will thank me), and when it's all done go take a quality class. The $500 the class will cost you is worth SO much more than the $300 rail system and $200 stock you'd be buying blindly.

[m24shooter]

Very good points Rob, and you just about nailed my BCM middy project that I'm currently working on except that I'm using one of the group buy LRB lowers that I got.

[Liljake82]

I had a colt national match H-BAR for about 5 years so I'm familiar with the platform. This time arround I'd like to go the KISS carbine route. No reason for a 9lb AR IMHO. Dad had the same rifle and recently got a RRA upper and an EO tech for it. I want basicly the same thing only w/ a flat top gas block and folding front sight. Thanks for the info and there will be more questions.

[sjohnny]

I'm building my first one little by little as funds become available. With a 4 and a 5 year old I can't come up with all the money at once to get a decent rifle. I'm not so much with having less money in the end product (but that will be a definite plus if it works out that way) but I want to end up with a gun that I probably wouldn't be able to afford all at once. I also enjoy building and working on stuff so that's a plus as well. I have a pretty good idea of what I want it to be when it's finished but I also have the flexibility to change if something else comes up or becomes available in the future. I have other stuff to shoot and not a lot of time to shoot right now so it's not killing me too terribly bad not to have everything done all at once.
I should be able to get the parts to finish my lower in the next couple of months and then I'll start saving change to get the upper done. I still haven't decided if I'm going to go with a barrelled upper from BCM or put one together myself. I've got time so I'll decide when I have the money.

That's my plan for what it's worth.

[Mr.Goodtimes]

i think building my own AR's is really fun. ive got all the tools i need to do most assembly. I think mutt guns are kinda cool, cause you can build exactly what you want.

[JustMatt]

I built my first AR from the ground up a few months back and I love it. I actually prefer to shoot it over my factory LWRC, something about the pride in workmanship and doing it yourself.

[colthpd15]

Its just so much more fun to build your own, U appreciate the rifle more when you do. I just find it to buy a built AR boring. Any weekend cammando can go out and buy a fully assembled AR but a true shooter to Heart builds he own.

[OfcPowder]

I am nearly done building my second rifle. My first was a factory Bushy that I went nuts with buying after market stuff.

I am about 2 pieces away from my own complete from the ground up build. Every part was purchased separately and put together by me. Way more satisfaction IMO, and it's exactly what I want. No money wasted on spare parts. It's been about 6 months in the works, but well worth the wait.

Good luck on yours.

[Stickman]

Way more satisfaction IMO, and it's exactly what I want. No money wasted on spare parts.



Thats one of the things I feel gives you a better overall value. You are getting what you want, exactly what you want, and nothing but what you want.

[rob_s]

Thats one of the things I feel gives you a better overall value. You are getting what you want, exactly what you want, and nothing but what you want.

But in the case of most people who wind up receiving that advice, how do they know what they want?

[Uglyduck]

But in the case of most people who wind up receiving that advice, how do they know what they want?

Rhetorical I'm sure but...by following your previous advice [:)]


don't go get rails, stocks, widgets, gizmos, bipods, doodads, etc. Get an Aimpoint in a quality mount, a good two-point sling, 10 quality magazines and 2k rounds and go take a class from a quality instructor".

Through use the buyer can formulate their own opinion about accessories based on needs. The majority of duty weapons are basic nuts and bolts carbines for a reason. Take a look at SERT103's (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=817&page=3) weapon (Post #35). It only has what he needs to get the job done, everything else is dead weight. There's no way to know that without getting out and using it.

Good advice Rob, anyone looking to build or buy for the first time would be smart to heed it.

Sorry to be off topic from your OP Liljake but i felt this topic warranted some more conversation.

[OfcPowder]

But in the case of most people who wind up receiving that advice, how do they know what they want?

Unfortunately for me knowing what I wanted was trial and error (i.e. $$$) on some stuff. Other stuff I borrowed, and I was meticulous in my research and being patient for the right deal.

[rebelEMPIRE]

As much as I try to resist, I can't help but stick my nose in this thread. Everyone here has some very good advice, especially rob_s.

Liljake82, you have come to the right place. It's quite important to research and ask questions (even if they are dumb questions), because it will save you down the road.

Although, I won't tell you how you should buy or make your next weapon, I can only offer my personal experiences; how you utilize it is up to you...

I gave it a lot of thought before purchasing my first AR. My background is aviation, and so I take every bit of detail to that standard. Suffice to say, assembling my own AR from scratch was not too difficult of a task. So, it's very nice to have experience, but it's even nicer to have friends with experience--the internet is full of it. Before even considering looking at manufacturers and parts, I looked at forums to understand the internals of an AR and its mechanics.

Afterwhich I studied the assembly process. They all come together the same for the most part. But rails often differ from make and model. I found that different methods of attachment equate to different standards in geometry.

For instance, "clamp on" rails (e.g. Troy MRF) are prone to slightly more skew than ones that screws on and then bolts into place (e.g. Daniel's Defense LITE). Regardless they all can potentially have defective geometry; the question is, what could you do to minimize such effects?

I decided I was not going to mount my front sight on my rail, but rather, on a gas block that was equal in height to the rail. I chose VLTOR's VST to minimize the potential for having to make large corrections with iron sights. The VST is a gas block which weighs roughly the same as a typical front sight, but has a push pin quick disconnect bore, integrated flip up iron sight, and continuous same level rail surface. It's designed such that the fasteners can be staked into place, too. I was easily sold on this concept; the $200+ price tag seemed reasonable. And to match, a Daniel's Defense LITE rail.

Lower Receivers and Upper Receivers are a dime a dozen. Most likely you'll come out with something that is a very good fit. So, shopping around for a good price will yield the best results as opposed to shopping around for a specific brand. Bravo Company USA is a good place to start.

Your barrel is what really determines what type of use your weapon will be. I wasn't sure if I wanted something long rang, short range, midrange, match grade, durable... you can't have it all in one, so you gotta choose a good place to start. I opted for a 16" barrel, 1:7 twist, chrome lined and M4 ramps. It's pretty much right there in the middle, and after shooting it for a while I figured out where I wanted to go with my next AR build (it so happens to be shorter).

I like to view your stock as your most important piece of your rifle. It is the critical part which stabilizes your aim, the part that gives you control. If you find your rifle to be forward heavy, you may balance it out by opting for a heavier stock, likewise, if it's forward light, you may choose to get a lighter stock. In my opinion, you'll want your rifle to be balanced in the middle at first. So, I bought my stock last to better gauge a correct balance. If you want a stable muzzle, a heavier front end will do. If you want manueverability for CQB, a heavier aft end will do; needless to say, I was drawn toward the heavier rear.

Your bolt is critical. It takes a lot of heat, pressure, and abuse. Never settle for anything that isn't Magnetic Partical Inspected or isn't Shot Peened. These are common procedures in aviation that I am highly familiar with, so it was no question to me which bolt carrier groups met up to my standard. Shopping around and reading reviews, BCM bolt carrier groups seemed to be the most bang for your buck. If you can afford one that's been chromed, that's even better. Chrome is smooth, easy to clean, and is highly resistant to heat and wear, but the draw back is that it does not break in very easily. Instead, your upper receiver will have to break in to your bolt. Young Mfg seemed decent to me, but they "batch" test their product, instead of testing every single bolt they produce, which for me was not going to cut it.

Lower Parts kits at the time all seemed to be reasonably matched, so I chose a DPMS kit since it was cheapest. After more experience with other people's ARs, I was able to feel the difference in the trigger pull and hammer release mechanisms. I don't know why exactly, but Stag seemed to feel the best. I didn't want a 2-stage trigger because it has more components than necessary, and thus more likely to fail.

CAA's UPG modular grip is nice. You can fit it to practically any hand size. It even has a storage compartment in the middle. And to top it off, it's not overly expensive like some competitor's. I will only use CAA's UPG grip from now on; feel-consistency also being a factor.

Since my front sight was integrated into my gas block, I only needed a rear sight. One that is on the same plane preferably, and can take shock while keeping zero. MI's same plane, low profile BUIS seemed to be the best candidate. But on a budget, Magpul MBUS sights are ideal. Aimpoint vs EOTech? EOTech has me sold, faster target acquision from larger window, intuitive reticle, and much cheaper. Best bang for the buck HWS, indeed. Besides, I was not planning on going into combat and requiring one battery to last me through a whole war. Under those circumstances, I may opt for an Aimpoint.

I didn't think of flash suppressors to be a big deal so I just chose a cheap one. YHM's phantom suppressors work rather well for 30 bucks. I didn't plan on doing any night shooting, as this was merely a "hobby" rifle. I have a different weapon entirely for self/home defense which may require use in the dark.

Lastly, I went and shoot off a few dozen rounds, and then doing a quick clean of my barrel. Afterwhich, I examined where all my brass was landing. If they landed too far forward, it would mean I needed a heavier buffer. But luckily for me, they all landed slightly forward of 90 degrees on a normal carbine buffer.

I hope this helps you in decided what weapon to buy and/or build in the future. It's definitely nice to know my rifle was built by me. I'll never buy a complete AR. I feel like I'm forgetting to mention something, but it's late and I need sleep. Happy building!

-rebelEMPIRE

[nitehawk1946]

Since you already have a Colt and know the platform you should be able to build just what "You" want. Hope you can save a few bucks. Each time I have started a "build" the finished product sometimes is more $$$ than a NIB...but at least I have exactly what "I" want. Like has been said there is tremendous "personal satisfaction" in building your own.

[Ryo]

I bought my first, but then later I build my own lowers. After doing it myself, I found it's really easy and you can get what you want and not need to pay service fees for someone else building it for you.

Uppers might be more tricky since you may need to buy tools depending what parts you are putting together.

If I had to do it over again, I probably would have build my own lower, and buy the upper.