Patrol rifle stuff (police)

[N8dawg16]

Hello all,

Spoke with my rangemaster and for those of us privately purchasing our patrol rifle we have two choices :Colt and S&W. I was secretely hoping to convince him to let me run a Noveske, but no go.

My choice of the two is hands down Colt. I recently went through a dept shoot with some of our carbines and it was eye opening. I noted a lot of cheap slings that were pretty much a pain in the a#$ to use and only served to get in the way. That problem was doubled for me as I'm one of the left handed minority.

For all the officers/deputies on this board how do you have your rifle set up?

N8dawg16

[rebelEMPIRE]

I'm not in LE, but I can point you to an interesting article here on WEVO. It gets very technical about slings, purpose, attachment points, etc. Many different reasons--how and why.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1104&highlight=sling

-rebelEMPIRE

[Keebsley]

Just something that might come up...some departments are limited on what they can and what they can't do to their rifles. Do you have any such limitations in your department? Such as no red dots? No rails? Lights and sling only?

[Paulo_Santos]

I agree with the above. Let us know what you are allowed to have and well gladly help out. We use EOTechs, VTac slings, and a surefire light on our carbines. Is your AR going to be your own personal AR, or do you have to share it?

[JustMatt]

Just a thought, but could you use a Colt lower and slap a Noveske upper on it? I doubt your rangemaster would bother to look past the serial number and roll stamp on the lower. Better yet, you could buy a S&W lower and build it out yourself and then put a Noveske upper on it. Ive built two lowers using the Smith & Wesson stripped lower and there real nice. You would probably just have to make sure the upper went along with department reg's.

[N8dawg16]

I don't think my department has put limits on what we can and can't do to our rifles as far as equipment. I think mainly they are mandating the brand. I think we can run a red dot since one of my partners has a dept issued rifle and it has an EOTECH.

So I guess right now I'm planning on a rail, eventually a red dot and a good two point sling.

Oh and I will be the only using my gun unless on a regular basis, emergency "borrowing" not withstanding.

[Army Chief]

Noveskes are exceptional carbines, without a doubt, but for patrol use the Colt is an excellent choice that will likely provide the same practical results. For this reason, I'm not sure that I would be swapping uppers in your stead, simply because it isn't at all necessary, and you may be inviting liability/policy noncompliance woes into your future.

The most significant difference between the two would obviously be the barrel, but Colt barrels are pretty good in their own right. I own Colt's and Noveske's almost to the complete exclusion of all others, so I do understand the basis for the question; that said, it isn't as if you've been forced to consider some second-rate options because of an ill-informed rangemaster or a departmental purchase order that standardized an inferior piece of equipment. Both of your available choices are solid guns.

Granted, I'm no longer in LE, and my applications for the past quarter-century have been almost exclusively military, but the issue here isn't configuration so much as it is quality. For domestic patrol use, even a very basic makeover (quality sling and a light) will provide the capability and convenience you're looking for.

If the department is enlightened enough to permit the use of a RDS, then notwithstanding my background as a contended Aimpoint user, the EOTech would be an excellent choice. If you're in a more open country, or likely to be dealing with varied distances (which pretty much defines non-entry LEO applications in my view), then a 1-4x might be an even better choice. I am a proponent of 1:1 Red Dots, but sometimes there is no substitute for magnification -- and the problem with LE applications is that you never know when you're going to be in that "sometimes" situation. These days, I often find myself choosing versatility over speed.

It's certainly possible to do more, but a lot of guys go too far and end up exchanging one kind of problem for another (i.e. they go from fumbling with a cheap carry sling to fumbling with all kinds of other superfluous crap that they've bolted on to what has often become a very heavy and very awkward-handling carbine).

Sling
Light
Sight

... covering these three should be permissible even in a highly-standardized department, and you may find that you really don't need much more.

AC

[Narco]

Sling MS2 w/ ASAP
Light: Surefire
Sight: H-1 or T-1 / Larue mount..

I'll give my reasonings:
Sling, best ambi sling, with the capablity to transition to 2 point and remove slack, going from direct action to a supported mode.

Light: Depending on your mission specific, you have to consider LED or Incandescent. LED will not cut smoke/haze/fog

Sight: Realistically as a front line officer, you will not be taking that 200 yd shot, the Aimpoint, cuts weight, minimal footprint, allows use of backup sights, battery life is outfucking standing. The Larue mount locks tight, holds zero tightly.

I personally run the S&W MP15T, however, I did send the lower to JP to have their trigger put in.. 4.0pds single stage, clean crisp break minimal reset.

[103m 95g]

Here is Mine as issued, all 300 PR are set up identical. no changes authorized.
Pmag was in for the pic, and the zip tie was put on by me to hold the sling to the side
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/103m95g/DSCN1760.jpg

[lmtrocks]

The agency I was at only authorized ABDs---Armalite, Bushy, DPMS. Red dot choices were either EoTech 510 or Aimpoint M3/ML3. I think the authorization was for dept. issued weapons only, though I'm pretty sure you could qualify with your own AR as keep it as your cruiser carbine. And it had to be cased, with only 20rd mags, and kept on safe while riding in your vehicle.

[RychenCop]

S&W 15A , Eotech 512, Vickers combat sling, KAC RAS.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8324/img0881d.jpg

[:D]

[GutWrench]

That picture is huge!!!!

[Cameron]

Here is mine as issued by the Department of Homestead Security

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2516/4150786606_b593163ce1_b.jpg

[Eric]

S&W 15A , Eotech 512, Vickers combat sling, KAC RAS. Dang dude...re-size that thing. [wow]

[Sudslinger]

Cameron, is that really as issued? Very very nice. The stock isn't too heavy is it?

[Randall Kepley]

Cameron, what length barrel is that? R.K.

[Cameron]

Cameron, is that really as issued? Very very nice. The stock isn't too heavy is it?

Yes. Re-read my post [:D]
The UBR balances the shorty nicely.


Cameron, what length barrel is that? R.K.

10.5" LMT barrel 10.0" DD Lite rail.

Cameron

[gunnut284]

I'm issued a Bushmaster 11.5" M16. A2 sights on the carry handle, Surefire railed forend and VFG light. Urban ERT armor sling attached to vest and basic factory sling w/550 cord mod for patrol use. No other modifications or additions permitted (ie no optics and the 550 mod is probably not even kosher but no one has said anything). I would rather be able to carry personally owned or at least add an Aimpoint but no dice so far.

[Paulo_Santos]

While the Noveske is nice, I wouldn't be too disappointed with having to use a Colt. For that matter, even the S&W is very nice. Just put a light, BUIS, sling, and a red dot and call it a day.

[rcrandall]

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq231/rcrandall_bucket/100_5820-1-1.jpg

This is my LWRC PSD 6.8. I like the Aimpoint T-1 with LaRue tall mount, the Surefire Scout LED light with pressure pad runing to a LaRue FUG (vertical foregrip). After farting around for years with single and three point slings I have found the Vickers Tactical Combat Applications Sling to work the best for me.

I've found that everyone is a little different in what fits them and it took me some time but htis setup works perfect for me.

[N8dawg16]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I got to play with a rifle equipped with a single point sling during my last dept shoot. Granted it was a cheap single point but it allowed the weapon to go everywhere. I think the sling needs to work well when you're shooting and when you're not. As a patrolman I spend a lot of time needing both hands to handcuff people and don't think a single point sling will provide me with enough security of the rifle.

N8dawg16

[boyblue]

^ I use a single point. When I need to go hands on I swing it to my back strong side and my handgun holster keeps it from swinging forward. Optimal..probably not, but functional.

[gunnut284]

I don't like the single point for patrol. The two point seems to handle transitions better (for me at least) and controls the gun better when both hands are free. The single point I have attached to my entry vest works well for that purpose.

[Paulo_Santos]

^ I use a single point. When I need to go hands on I swing it to my back strong side and my handgun holster keeps it from swinging forward. Optimal..probably not, but functional.

I agree. It works very well like that. The more I tried different slings, the more I came back to the 1-point slings. I found it very hard to give up the speed and agility that you have with the 1-point slings.

[Eric]

It's great that we have so many sling options open to us now. I used a 3 point for years and loved it, but was aware of the limitations. I was admittedly reluctant to try something else, but dabbled with using a single point, while eventually settling in to a two point sling for my work gun. The two point allows me to transition to a secondary, go hands or otherwise utilize my hands, while still maintaining decent control of the weapon.

If possible on slings, try before you buy.

[N8dawg16]

It's been awhile since I've posted. Thank you all for your thoughts on my original post. I now currently run a Colt 6920, bone stock. I am currently using a Gear Sector GS2p sling, works fine for me right now. My next addition will be a light and a RDS. The sight might come first since that'll be easier than qualifying on our night shooting course, since they don't hold them often. I'm pretty content with my rifle since the installation of a tritium front sight post.

What's everyone's choice on sights, I don't think anyone I work with runs an Aimpoint, Eotech as a monopoly at my dept. ?

N8dawg16

[zero7one]

Optics opinions will vary greatly. I run a simplistic EOTech 512 on my patrol rifle because that is what I could afford at the time when I built my rifle. My partner runs a Aimpoint Comp M4. Both have their pros and cons. I like the viewfinder of the EOTech as I find it easier to acquire my target with, however the battery life and on/off switch can be a pain, especially when deploying it from the car. The Aimpoint Comp M4's battery lasts 80,000 hours (roughly 9 years) on a single AA battery and can remain on for that long on the lowest setting. However, my partner will change out the battery at least once a year. Both options are rugged and reliable for patrol use.

Another thing to consider is if you department authorizes magnified optics. Ours does not unless you are on SWAT and in a Sniper role.

The Trijicon ACOG TA31ECOS is a solid optic, gives you 4x capability on the main optic, and has a Docter RDS on top for CQB. The down side with this optic is the pain it will cause to your wallet.

http://zero7one.defensemk.com/Optics/zero7one_Trijicon_ACOG_TA31ECOS_002.jpg

There are a lot of options out there and you are only limited by your preference and wallet. Make sure that you get a quality optic and don't settle for a low priced one unless you know that it will be able to endure the daily abuses of patrol life. Our department tested and abused a Vortex Optics SPARC RDS (~$289), which held up excellently with many courses of abuse to include throwing the optic across the room. It held its zero well after the torture tests.

Optics are also decreasing in size, while maintaining their capabilities. For example the EOTech XPS2 is much smaller than the EOTech 512. Wherever you can save weight, will help you out in the long run. Remember ounces = pounds...pounds = pain.

http://zero7one.defensemk.com/Optics/zero7one_EOTech_XPS2_006.jpg

[N8dawg16]

ACOG's are very nice, but we can not run a magnified optic of any kind. No magnifiers either. I work Graveyard patrol and the optic would be used in the dark 98% of the time. I'm attracted to not having to turn the optic on. Oh one thing I forgot, I wear contacts and have a slight astigmatism, does that adversely affect things?

[zero7one]

Not sure about contacts, but I have a slight astigmatisim too and occasionally wear glasses at night. I have never had any problems with any optics.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[TripleBravo]

Our Department issues Colt 6920's for patrol, then limits the authorized accessories and parts that can be swapped out. For optics, only EOTechs and Aimpoint CompM series are authorized.

I actually approve of limitations on authorized accessories. While members of WEVO generally care enough to do the research to identify reliable high quality gear, it's been my experience that far too many LEO's don't. Without limitations, officers will show up at the range with all kinds of crazy set ups doomed to fail when the moment of truth arrives.

When deciding on my own optic, I took the following into account: Carbines first arrived at our Department when SWAT officers transitioned from MP5s to Colt R0977's (11.5 " barreled full-auto) equipped with the first generation of NV compatible EOTechs. SWAT re-qualifies quarterly, and without fail, one or two EOTechs have lost their zero. That fact has kept me leery of EOTechs in general. I also don't care for the "fuzzy" look of the EOTech display.

So I chose the Aimpoint CompM4s with a 2 MOA dot. I prefer the crisp single smaller dot. The battery life was also a huge selling point for me.

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/wjt1169/HDR%20images/M4mountright01HDR.jpg

[TehLlama]

I think a Colt may make for a better patrol rifle.

Aimpoint - simple, huge battery life, there's a reason I have 6 of these buggers in various form factors.
Weaponlight - Surefire, with a mount. Even the lowly G2L is a fantastic light.
Rear sight - I prefer TROY, but any quality one will do
Sling - get one that's conducive to running the rifle southpaw. Convertible 1-pt slings can work, but where you're mounting the sling will matter more for lefties like yourself.

[NickDrak]

I am a big fan of the MagPul MS2/ASAP sling set-up on my patrol rifle. I actually cannibalized a padded VTAC sling and added it to my MS2, and for me it is a huge improvement in comfort. I greatly prefer a single point sling when I am shooting in most every position, and I run a Daniel Defense front sling loop (until the MagPul RSA is released), which works great when I need to sling my rifle up for when I need to go hands-on: (handcuffing, climbing, etc.)

Here's a pic of my new rig:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9845/sdc10497u.jpg

UPPER Specs:
FailZero full kit (FZ M4 upper receiver, F/A BCG, S/A hammer)
Bravo Co. 14.5" Middy
Permanently attached BattleComp 1.5
LaRue Lo-profile gas block
Vtac 11.0 Extreme BattleRail
LaRue BUIS (rear sight)
KAC Micro-Flip front sight
Eotech XPS2-0 on a LaRue riser mount
Surefire X300 mounted in the 12 o'clock position
BCM GunFighter charging handle

*Im also runnin' a "H2" buffer and a TacticalSprings "Blue" buffer spring in my lower. This thing shoots smooth as hell!