Anger over Trijicon's Serial Numbers - Bible References....

[federalist22]

Apparently, Trijicon has admitted to a hidden reference to bible passages in its serial numbers on every ACOG they make--the Marines and Army have thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of these. I have no problem with this, but apparently it angers Muslim groups. The bible references have been used by Trijicon for over 30 years when its founder, a Christian, who later died in a plane crash in 2003, decided to implement the practice, which his son has carried on in his stead.

Although I read this in several places yesterday, this Fox News article (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583508,00.html) discusses how Trijicon appends bible references to the end of their serial numbers on the ACOGs and possibly other sights. Now the government has to investigate whether Trijicon violated any FAR procurement practices. For Example, Markings on the ACOG include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,'" according to the King James version of the Bible.:...."

Personally, I have half a mind to call Trijicon to see if they can find me an ACOG serialized using Psalm 144:1, "Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight."

I wonder if this will spike some rarity collector value in case Trijicon decides to change this practice--if I were Trijicon, I would not stop.

[Army Chief]

Obviously, all of this "secret Bible codes" business has loomed large in the news this week, and the media seems to have gone out of their way to showcase the outrage of some. Still, for the most part, I view this as attempting to ignite a controversy where there is no controversy.

Consider the facts:

- There is nothing at all secret about the codes -- they just aren't very overt, and generally escape notice unless you are paying close attention.

- Trijicon has not chosen to do this in response to American involvement in Islamic lands -- it has been their standard practice for decades.

- The referenced verses themselves are not "train my hands for war" types of passages -- they simply make references to light/darkness themes that are actually rather clever in view of Trijicon's product line.

The problem here isn't with what Trijicon has done so much as it is with the fact that we've come to accept the notion that our nation's Judeo-Christian underpinnings no longer have any place in public view. We've pulled the 10 Commandments from the courthouse walls, we've barred Nativity scenes from town property, we've replaced all of our religious holidays, and we've consistently stricken every public evidence of the nation's Christian heritage.

I'm not suggesting that America is, or even was, a "Christian nation," but this is our cultural heritage, and the mere fact that so many have taken such great offense to this tells us not how far we've come, but rather how much has been lost in an age of poltical correctness. One needn't be religious to appreciate (or, at least, tolerate) the values around which our society was shaped, and to suggest that Trijicon has committed some kind of grievous error here is, in my view, much ado about nothing. Trijicon isn't even a government entity, and their defense contracts notwithstanding, we would do well to remember that we're talking about a private company.

There is always room for a dissenting view, but let's jettison this rhetoric that the Armies of the West are using "Jesus rifles" in their Crusades against the modern-day Jihad. That is a dangerous kind of foolishness that will needlessly incite and divert attention away from the realities of our involvement. Just because you can make something like this a major headline in today's world doesn't mean that you should.

AC

[Paulo_Santos]

I remember reading about those markings on the ACOGs years ago. Personally I can care less that they have those markings and I'm surprised that those groups haven't made a stink before this. This is a Trijicon problem and I dont discuss religious stuff. The only thing I care when it come to Trijicon is that they still haven't come out with a decent reticle for their ACOGs. I've been wanting a non caliber specific reticle for years now.

[SDDuc996]

I think it's awesome, harmless, and if people have a problem, they should get over it. Or they shouldn't buy one, though I'm sure people that do have a problem with it, wouldn't have much use for one anyway.

[Paulo_Santos]

I think it's awesome, harmless, and if people have a problem, they should get over it. Or they shouldn't buy one, though I'm sure people that do have a problem with it, wouldn't have much use for one anyway.

I don't think Trijicon will loose any sleep over it. Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if sales went up because of it. LOL.

[SDDuc996]

I really hope they do.

[chase102798]

It was just reported on Nightline that the Pentagon publicly announced they had no idea that the scopes contained a "secret code" and Trijicon is announcing that it will remove all Biblical references from its products. Unreal. So much for 'One Nation, Under God'...

[SDDuc996]

Why does the majority (almost always) have to cater to the few?

Very annoying.

[JLSKIP]

Why does the majority (almost always) have to cater to the few?

Very annoying.

A. Because that's what America stands for, this is NOT A DEMOCRACY, NOR SHOULD IT BE.

B. I'm sure that anti gun folks feel the same way about your 2nd Amendment rights.

C. The First Amendment. I would expect the government to ask for the removal of serial numbers that were "PraiseAllah001" or "ThereIsNoGod001". I don't feel that it is appropriate for military hardware to reference religion or irreligion.

[chem_guy]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - The First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The last time I checked, Trijicon is a private company. In light of the recent SCOTUS decision, maybe Trijicon should "rent out" that space for a political message instead.

Something to think about.

[Paulo_Santos]

Trijicon has a Military Contract. Would anyone be wiling go loose a contract over this? I doubt it. Not worth it.

[at600]

I own two ACOGs and I think it's freaking awesome! I think it so cool that I made up some artwork for t-shirts and stickers for those of us that don't give a rip what our enemies and the liberal media think http://www.cafepress.com/jesusrifle

To much of America is asleep to the fact that we are in the midst of a holy war whether we like it or not.

[federalist22]

I think it's awesome too.

Unfortunately, Trijicon is caving in on this one-click to read about their scrape-off removal kits. (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2010/0122/Trijicon-sights-How-the-Jesus-gun-misfired) Not that I ever watch ABC News, but they broke the story--liberal media.

[Army Chief]

Whatever our personal feelings on the inscriptions themselves, I think we can probably agree that Trijicon did the right thing by extinguishing the flames. Even as a Christian, I'm inclined to agree with JLSKIP's observation that it would be entirely reasonable for the government to ask that any superfluous text be removed from a contracted component, regardless of the sentiments conveyed, or the rationale behind it.

Paulo is probably on to something as well, in that all of this attention has reminded me that I need to pick up an ACOG for my next 16" all-around carbine. =]

AC

[chase102798]

It's a shame they will trade in a noble Christian statement to stay neutral. Of course, we trade here, we trade there. We're Christians, but we don't say Christmas anymore, we say holidays. We take "under God," out of the pledge of allegiance. No talk about God in school anymore. This is a small part of a song my sister turned me on to. It's from a guy named Carmen.


"George Washington, Thomas Jefferson
Samuel Adams, First Chief Justice John Jay
Names synonymous with the spirit of our country
Founding fathers of the U.S.A.

Over 200 years ago they shook off the chains of tyranny from Great Britain
By divine call
Citing 27 biblical violations they wrote the Declaration of Independence
With liberty and justice for all

But something happened since Jefferson called the Bible the cornerstone
For American liberty then put it in our schools as a light
Or since "Give me liberty, or give me death," Patrick Henry said
Our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ

We eliminated God from the equation of American life
Thus eliminating the reason this nation first began
From beyond the grave I hear the voices of our founding fathers plead
You need God in America again

Of the 55 men who formed the Constitution
Fifty-two were active members of their church
Founding fathers like Noah Webster who wrote the first dictionary
Could literally quote the Bible chapter and verse

James Madison said, "We've staked our future on our ability to follow
The Ten Commandments with all our heart"
These men believed you couldn't even call yourself an American
If you subvert the Word of God

In his farewell address, Washington said, "You can't have national morality apart from religious principle," ...

[SDDuc996]

A. Because that's what America stands for, this is NOT A DEMOCRACY, NOR SHOULD IT BE.

B. I'm sure that anti gun folks feel the same way about your 2nd Amendment rights.

C. The First Amendment. I would expect the government to ask for the removal of serial numbers that were "PraiseAllah001" or "ThereIsNoGod001". I don't feel that it is appropriate for military hardware to reference religion or irreligion.

Personally I don't care if people believe or not. I am a believer.

Navy EOD get's tasked to work with the Secret Service quite frequently. A good buddy of mine who is always in DC for that reason took my wife and I to the memorials. He showed us the latest one, the WWII memorial. Looked great until one of the things he pointed out was this one doesn't reference God ANYWHERE on purpose.

I thought that was pretty sad as it's sad Trijicon has to remove those inscriptions.

[Army Chief]

Sad, perhaps, but also rational.

We have to keep in mind that we're talking about items produced for a military contract that will be employed in parts of the world where our adversary (however wrongly) believes that he is engaged in a war defined in religious terms. We focus on country -- he sees only creed.

Unless it is just too difficult to run two separate production processes, I wouldn't expect the inscriptions to disappear from units offered for commercial sale. That's really another discussion entirely, but as I said from the onset, what bothers me most about this is not whether we happen to agree or disagree on expressions of faith, but rather that the media chose to give so much needless attention to a story that they knew had the potential only to incite.

AC

[Paulo_Santos]

I remember when the news media used to be about reporting facts. Now, most of the news media is all about entertainment and stirring the pot. I've wondered if Jerry Springer is actually running the news media.

I've read more factual stuff in the National Inquirer in the last couple of years than in the real media. Just ask Tiger Woods and The slimeball polititian, John Edwards.

[Ryo]

I don't care if they have biblical references. Make a good priduct, and I'll buy it.

[Devilphish]

I remember when the news media used to be about reporting facts. Now, most of the news media is all about entertainment and stirring the pot. I've wondered if Jerry Springer is actually running the news media.

I've read more factual stuff in the National Inquirer in the last couple of years than in the real media. Just ask Tiger Woods and The slimeball polititian, John Edwards.


Bingo. I remember back in the day when the news was news. Now it's all about entertainment and who left who and which famous person did something bad. This was only "news" because it was controversial, not actually news.

[gotm4]

Wow as a Christian this makes me want even more ACOGs.

[Stickman]

I was contacted in an unofficial capacity on this issue, and it came from a group claiming to be for tolerance in the military, or something similar. I'll see if I can find who it is and post their group name.

I guess tolerance is only accepted by some groups if it means being in agreement with them.




I'll run my ACOG with bacon, just to make sure my message is clear.

[federalist22]

I am tempted to buy an ACOG even though all my rifles have Aimpoints on them--guess I need another rifle.

[Paulo_Santos]

I was contacted in an unofficial capacity on this issue, and it came from a group claiming to be for tolerance in the military, or something similar. I'll see if I can find who it is and post their group name.

I guess tolerance is only accepted by some groups if it means being in agreement with them.




I'll run my ACOG with bacon, just to make sure my message is clear.

They sound real desperate to actually come to gun sites and discuss this. I wouldn't waste my time with them.

[Stickman]

No, this was media people that I have contact with who didn't see it as a big deal.

[chase102798]

I'm waiting for the news cast that tells a story of how someone saves lives with a firearm or etc. I cringe when I hear that a "gun" story just broke on the TV. You know what's coming....

I agree with you guys here. I do understand the military contract aspect. It just seems like religion always takes a hit in the media...never a good story.

I don't envy Trijicon for having been put in this position. A mile in their shoes...

[chase102798]

Quick question. I know the ACOG was all over the media with the serial numbers, but is it just ACOGs that bear the markings or is it all Trijicon products?