PDA

View Full Version : What is so difficult about making an upper and a lower!



Anchor Station
20 December 2007, 07:32
As of late we have seen the introduction of many new and enhanced products in the AR world. Which is great for all of us but one thing is really bugging me right now is being able to get matched receivers.

Case in point POF makes a very well made lower (I just got one myself) but unless you want a piston upper you can not get a POF matching top end. Same holds true for Vltor, I just got a VIS but Vltor dosnt make a lower.

Now before I hear about the many other offerings out there let me be specific that I'm speaking only of billet sets not cast or fogings. Sun Devil seems to be the only option but I have hear they are on the soft side and there is no shell deflector.

Having some experiance as a machinist I dont understand how a shop that is already tooled up for CNC would find it that difficult to make a component for which the required dimentions already exist. I can understand Vltor to a certain extent due to the fact that making a top end dosnt require a MFG licence from the ATF but I think they already have one as they make the PKM belt fed.

Sorry first post had to involve a soap box, its just irritating me. As soon as it is finished to my satisfaction I'll post pics and a review of my POF/Vltor build.

Stickman
20 December 2007, 08:47
Are you looking for matching names, or suitable matching components with the upper and lower?

Anchor Station
22 December 2007, 08:27
Personaly I myself am not that hung up on name matching. My frustration is the resuly of starting builds for other people who want matching components. The one huge advantage I see in having components matched from the same source (brand) is the appearance of the finish. There is an obvious differeance in the coatings used by POF and Vltor and it is very hard not to notice that they are not matched. Granted this can be taken care of with a suitable application of Krylon or DuraCoat but thats another step in the process that dosnt need to be involved.

Side bar note Friday I did swing by Rainer and got to actually see the Sun Devil components. All rumors aside about their metal being soft I was impressed with the overall fit and finish of the components and I left there with a high amount of confidance that the recivers were of high quality. John said that these were the only ones that have never been returned due to defect...and these guys sell a lot of receivers!

The serch continues to find a matching Billet upper lower set for a build for a friend but I decided I can live w/o the shell deflector and fwd assist for my next build.

POF supposedly will be selling their stripped uppers mid 08 so time will tell. Hopefully they dont pull a MagPul on the AR15 comunity and make us wait forever for everything they say they will make.

Stickman
22 December 2007, 12:51
Magpul has recently stopped making announcements to the community based off people getting upset when they can't get items as fast as they would like. If more people were aware of what went into manufacturing new items, there would be less confusion and complaints.

There is a big different between announcing the projected release of a new product, and giving the release date for an item which is already in production.

7KOPPER
27 December 2007, 14:23
And the problem is solved now. Noone will know untill we're ready to ship. There, that makes everyone happy, right?

Anchor Station
28 December 2007, 14:04
7KOPPER,

Going to assume that you represent or are MAGPUL.

Just so you hear it from yet another person...your company and products have a loyal following! I have yet to be dissaponted with anything that has been produced by Magpul and I am aware of what goes into getting the kinks worked out and having it perfect before being available for mass consumption and its admirable that Magpul dosnt put out a product before its ready.

The discontent arises from the fact that people DO eagerly anticipate new products from you and may even plan a build with a specific component in mind such as a stock. This I would have to say is due to the well earned reputation of MagPul's end products. But from a consumer standpoint its frustrating because I know darn good and well that either I will buy a UBR to replace my EMOD or just keep the EMOD and know that it wasnt what I had intended from the beginning probably end up with a UBR and eat the cost of the EMOD or...have to build another rifle (oh darn).

Dont really want to build or own another AR as I believe the Massada WILL be the one "perfect" rifle that will replace any and all AR's...at least for me. I tried the XCR and found it to be dismal at best and I gave serious consideration to the Microtech AUG clone before starting my last build project which was done out of frustration over the "New" breed of rifles not having much to offer over the AR IMHO. Having said that I would have held out and waited for the Massada if I had a reasonable idea of when it would be available. Oh well I'll be deploying again in a few months and hopefully by the time I get back it will be available so I'll put all that tax free hazard pay to good use :)

I can see how these projects along with the constant internet banter could prove to be frustrating. You are trying to develop and offer the best available product that you possibly can and all people seem to do is complain. The problem isnt in the posting of pics or discussions about the concepts and asking the end users what they think. The problem arises from the availability dates, wether originated by the company or by all those who write about your products. People get anxious when something revalutionary is looming just beyond reach. So in short just one persons opinion dont keep the public out the loop on pics or discussions about the products but do keep us in the dark on release dates. I honestly do think thats a better approach and I'm sure others strongly dissagree. I guess just seeing pics of projects puts it into the same catagory as a concept car...yes its cool but you may or may not ever see it. Or just the more practical inovations will be incorporated in the end.

Lastly so you have an idea how long I have been following Magpuls venture into stockmaking. I recall the first versions of the M98 or rather the PDF files of the stock that were on Magpuls site back around 00-01 (or about that time). If I recall corectly the original idea was to have a QD set up that would allow the use of one proprietary buffer tube assy and could accomidate either a CAR style stock (sketches looked like the M98) or a Precision stock (Sketches looked mostly like the PRS). Whatever happened to that idea? I know several people who thought that was brilliant and still would like a similar set up. The ability to have two stock options without tools to compliment different upper configurations would be well recieved. Nevermind scratch that idea...the Massada will be able to do the same thing right? Guess I just need to get one of those instead!

Cheers and keep the skunkwerks going...if you build it we will line up to get em.