Titanium Muzzle Device?

[Aragorn]

I've been VERY heavily considering going with a titanium muzzle device for my build. Thing is I've heard that when titanium is exposed to propellant gases (i.e. muzzle blast) the hydrocarbons in the gasses contaminate the material causing "hydrocarbon embrittlement" (same as hydrogen embrittlement?) weakening it. Does anyone have any experience with (or knowledge of) titanium muzzle devices to confirm this? Would ceracoating protect it?

The company offers it in titanium, and 6AL4V titanium which is supposed to be the MOST resistant to corrosion. They also said they have a process which will coat them black and that the look is very similar to phosphate, but did not mention exactly what the coating is.

[Aragorn]

Here's some information I found, cited from http://titanex.com/tiabout/specifications-characteristics-markets-corrosion-resistance-fabrication-applications.php?sel=7

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"The environmental resistance of titanium depends primarily on a very thin, tenacious and highly protective surface oxide film. Titanium and its alloys develop very stable surface oxides with high integrity, tenacity and good adherence. The surface oxide of titanium will, if scratched or damaged, immediately reheal and restore itself in the presence of air or water."

"Titanium is highly resistant to hydrocarbons, chloro-hydrocarbons, fluorocarbons, ketones, aldehydes, ethers, esters, amines, alcohols and most organic acids."

"Oxygen and Air Titanium has excellent resistance to gaseous oxygen and air at temperatures up to 700°F. (370°C.). Above this temperature and below 840°F. (450°C.), titanium may form colored surface oxide films which may thicken slowly with time. Above 1000°F. (545°C.) or so, titanium alloys lack long-term oxidation resistance and will become brittle due to the increased diffusion of oxygen into the metal."

"The surface oxide film on titanium acts as a highly effective barrier to hydrogen penetration which can only occur when this protective film is disrupted mechanically or broken-down chemically or electro-chemically. The presence of moisture effectively maintains the oxide film inhibiting hydrogen absorption up to fairly high temperatures and pressures. On the other hand, pure, anhydrous hydrogen exposures should be avoided particularly as pressures and/or temperatures increase.

Excessive absorption of hydrogen in titanium alloys leads to embrittlement if a significant quantity of the brittle titanium hydride phase precipitates in the metal. Generally, hydrogen contents of at least several hundred ppm are required to observe significant embrittlement.

The few cases of hydrogen embrittlement of titanium observed in industrial service have generally been limited to situations involving high temperature, highly alkaline media; titanium coupled to active steel in hot aqueous sulfide streams; and where titanium has experienced severe very prolonged cathodic charging in seawater."

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So now I guess the question is, does all of this add up to a good muzzle device? Or would it get brittle? I wouldn't imagine a muzzle device, even under heavy use, gets up over 1000°F, or even to 700°F

[rebelEMPIRE]

Repeated use of your rifle would probably break the protective barrier leading to potential corrosion and embrittlement.

Then again, I'm no expert. But that seems to be the most logical deduction.

-rebelEMPIRE

[Wallace]

The surface oxide on Titanium dose not simply wear off as would a coating or treatment. If the Titanium is there, and has not been ground, scratched, etched or cut it will have the inheritance surface oxidation present. If a bullet was to per-say contact the break and remove by way of mechanical contact the layer of oxidation, then the Titanium would be exposed to carbon as the next bullet passed by, however Titanium is still highly resistant to carbon bonding as there is carbon present Ti14C13 and Ti13 C14 and Titanium tends to hold a week bond with carbon.

Not sure if that helped,........but if a reputable company is producing a product in Titanium as a break it's pretty safe to say it's because of it resistant properties.

[Aragorn]

After doing some pretty extensive research, I think I'm going to give it a shot. I was told they make it in two different types of titanium. I don't know what the first one is, but the second is 6AL4V. 6AL4V is supposed to be the MOST corrosion resistant form of titanium. Looking it up specifically this is what I found. It's actually a pretty short, though informative, read.

http://www.inklingpen.com/level_two/titaniumintro.html

[.338]

Aragorn, what company is this and how do you like it?

[Stickman]

I missed this thread when ti was posted, how did this ever turn out?

[Aragorn]

Call me a procrastinator but I haven't ordered it yet. The build thus far has taken me WAY longer than initially anticipated. Between moving, the wife being pregnant, as well as a couple other things, finances have been über strained. The company is Micor Industries. The flash suppressors they make are rather unique. When you order one, you specify your barrel twist rate and they cut the flutes to match in either 1/7, 1/8, or 1/9. They also have a small plate inside at the 6 O'clock to tame muzzle rise, and have anti-resonation rings. Aside from flash suppression and decreased muzzle climb, they also claim increased accuracy. You can also get them in either steel or titanium. My curiosity being piqued, I started scrounging for information as they were making some rather tall claims. Thus far from what I've been able to find, the people who have used them say flash suppression and muzzle rise or on par or slightly better than a YHM Phantom, and that they DID actually get an increase in accuracy of roughly 1/4 MOA. Granted the rifles in the reviews I read were not exactly precision/bench/competition rigs, but the increase was there. Seeing how I tend to take most second hand information with a grain of salt, I have decided simply to find out for myself. I'll be ordering a 6AL4V titanium one in 1/7 twist to match my centurion barrel. I'll be sure to put up a review once I get the build complete, but I cannot honestly say that will be anytime soon...[BD]

Weight difference according to Gordon of Micor Industries is .141 lbs. for the 4140 steel version (which is also melonited) vs. .081 lbs. for the titanium. Punching those numbers into a calculator that equates to 2.19 oz. for the steel, and 1.29 oz. for the titanium.

It may also be of note that the FS is NOT long enough to bring a 14.5" barrel to legal length. Gordon DID mention that they have some in the works that WILL in the near future.

Here is a link to the website: http://www.micorind.com/default.aspx?id=271

And the Product Overview Sheet: http://www.micorind.com/images/micorflashsupp.pdf

[.338]

Thanks Aragorn, I dont think they can do a flash suppressor like I want for a 1:11 twist 6.8mm in natural Titanium finish but I shot them an e-mail anyways just to see. Ill let ya know what I find out.

[Aragorn]

Sounds good. I hope it all works out well for you.