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View Full Version : Barrel Conundrum - Questions



ColonelColt
17 March 2010, 01:42
I've been visiting and reading these forums for quite some time and in that time, I have come to be very impressed with the quality of the posts and information compared to other more populace AR-15-related forums. That's why I'm posting this here. I have an extensive knowledge of firearms and machines and have quite a bit of experience in handling and working on them. I mostly lack the funds to experiment buying a lot of different AR-15 setups.

I currently only own one AR-15 type weapon. It started life as a Bushmaster ORC (http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWVMF16M4ORC.asp) and currently has a YHM flip front sight (http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product413.html) with bayonet lug and a few Magpul MOE (http://magpul.com/) accessories on it. I've done all of the hand tuning and reliability checks on it that I've come across and am mostly happy with the rifle.

What I would like to end up with, on this rifle, is an eighteen inch barrel with a midlength gas system from Osprey Defense, (http://gaspiston.com/) specifically the OPS-418. I've handled Remington's R-15 (http://remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-r-15/model-r-15-predator-carbine-cs.aspx) with the 18 inch fluted barrel at work and really like the balance and feel of it, I'm also a big fan of the AR-18's setup. The problem I'm running into is finding an 18" barrel with a midlength gas port that isn't a custom made item and costs half as much as my entire rifle. I've been looking at Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River Arms and the only company that seems to have 18" barrels readily available is DPMS with their mini-SASS (http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5478&cat=1918) and Mark 12 (http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5571&cat=1918) barrels. The only issue is the SASS barrel's profile won't work with the OPS-418 and the Mark 12 has a rifle length gas system.

My concern with simply going with a rifle length gas system is that with the shorter barrel I would lose gas pressure to reliably cycle the weapon when it becomes fouled. A secondary concern is being unable to mount a bayonet with the shortened barrel length. I would simply go with a 20 inch barrel and gas system but a lot of the barrels have heavier profiles ignoring the extra two inches of length; these don't seem to balance well with a collapsing stock on the other end. I also don't seem to be finding a lot of 16.5" barrels with midlength systems on them which is what, I thought, it was originally developed for.

What I would really like is the barrel off of the Remington R-15 (http://remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-r-15/model-r-15-predator-carbine-cs.aspx) and simply have it threaded. If anyone knows who's making this barrel, I would be much obliged. Any help or advice you guys can give would be much appreciated. If I end up needing to go with a 20" barrel to get a proper gas system, so be it. In that case I'd prefer suggestions on a middle weight barrel. Thank you. - Colt

Timberwolf
17 March 2010, 02:51
Remington owns Bushmaster, so that should be your starting point.

ColonelColt
17 March 2010, 05:49
Well, technically Bushmaster, Remington, DPMS, Cobb, Marlin, and AAC are all owned by Cerberus Capital Management. None of these companies seems to produce that 18" fluted barrel with midlength gas system. Past the gas port it looks somewhat like the mini-SASS but under the handguard it's more like a medium weight barrel, no fluting.

ColonelColt
17 March 2010, 15:35
I just came across this setup from Daniel Defense: https://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=238 That actually looks exactly like what I want. Does anyone have an idea on what their pricing is like? Since it's a cold hammer forged barrel, I'm a bit afraid to call and ask.

5pins
17 March 2010, 18:32
Take a look at Rainier Arms.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1634

iamjonscranium
17 March 2010, 20:06
I would maybe talk to ADCO.

Email steve@adco.com and ask him your question. I'm not sure what he's got in stock right now, but I do know that White Oak sells 18" mid length barrels and he deals with WO. He is also a machine shop, so he could flute the barrel (or dimple it for that matter) and get you all set with a one stop shop.

Don't call, they don't really answer the phones in the shop.

ColonelColt
19 March 2010, 01:32
I really like that one from Sabre Defense but it's a bit more than I was planning on spending but I'll keep it in mind. Any comments on just going with a 20" barrel and dealing with the extra length? On if having a 20" barrel cut down to 18" will still have enough barrel to mount a bayonet? If it will even be reliable like that? The only reason I'm so hung up on barrel length isn't the barrel cost itself but the cost of the gas piston system I want to put on it which are length-specific.

Any pictures of 20" rifle barrels with a carbine (MOE particularly) stock on them would be appreciated. I wish there were an easier way to find information on this subject but trying to get accurate results when typing in several Arf related terms is nearly impossible when you're looking for a discussion.

TehLlama
19 March 2010, 11:03
Once you're looking at buying a barrel and modifying it in any way, ADCO becomes one of the few choices left - There are a good deal of choices from RockRiver as well as WOA that could meet what you're looking for (with or without modification), but just email them, see what Dave has to say on your options.

ColonelColt
19 March 2010, 12:07
Looking at Adco's website, I'm leaning toward the White Oak barrels for an 18". Of course, I was thinking last night that getting a 20" barrel with military profiling would be the safest bet simply because I could always have it shortened later along with the drop in gas system. This isn't as onerous as it is for most people since my local shop is ran by a great guy with a mill and lathe.

I see White Oak makes a 20 inch "service" barrel... But how are Bushmaster, Rock River, and DPMS' 20" barrels comparatively? I can't seem to find a service profile DPMS barrel while Bushmaster has the barrel with installed front sight and all accompanying parts for around $235. If something is significantly better and I can pay $50 more, I'd be willing to pay the extra cash since I'll have to put this on layaway at my local shop anyway.

Also, I'm familiar with M4 feed ramps but what does "M4 extension" mean? Some of the White Oak barrels have this selectable option, one says "With M4" and then "M4 Extension or not" which is either bad wording or I'm not understanding something. Would putting a rifle barrel without M4 feed ramps in my gun effect reliability? I would assume having the feed ramps would be better regardless of barrel length. Thanks again guys, I'll email Adco tonight when I have more time.

hikeeba
20 March 2010, 07:21
Hello ColonelColt,

I see what you are saying about ADCO's WOA barrel listing with the "M4 Extension or not." I'm guessing that is a typo, and that is confusing. If you are interested in that barrel, give ADCO a call and get clarification.

The same goes for the Daniel Defense barrel. Give them a call, and find out what cost and availbility is for their 18" barrel. The more info you have on all of your options, the more informed your final decision will be.

You stated you mostly lack the funds to 'experiment' with different AR setups. I'm in the same position. I recently spent 2+ months researching a barrel for a upper build. What started as an idea to build a 20" upper around a gov't profile barrel turned into a 18" SPR upper, and then finally morphed into 16" recce-type upper around a good barrel. Gather as much info as you possibly can on each item you're considering, and then pause every now and then to ponder your possibilities. Consider not only what you want to build, but why you want to build it, and how you're going to use it. That's how my 'budget-restricted' mind went through the process.


Finally, while barrel length, gas system, and barrel manufacturer have been mentioned often in this thread, little has been said about the barrel profile in relation to the Osrey piston system. Osprey Defense states their setup will work with standard profile barrels with up to a .875" outer diameter. I am going to guess that most of the 18" SPR-ish barrels mentioned here will fall under the Osprey Defense maximum outer diameter, but it wouldn't hurt to verify the spec on any barrels you're interested in.

5pins
20 March 2010, 09:37
The barrel extension is the part of the barrel that has the ramps and locking lugs. They simply want to know if you want a barrel with M4 ramps or without.

HS2
21 March 2010, 08:34
Rainer has 18" fluted SS mid-length barrels from Sabre for $325.

ColonelColt
24 March 2010, 18:42
I think I'm going to end up getting a standard government profile 20" barrel from Bushmaster since it comes with everything I need until I can get the 18" midlength I really want. This isn't as big of a deal as it would be since I'm planning on building a full size AR-15 eventually which the barrel can go to.

Any suggestions on a railed gas block with bayonet lug? YHM seems to be the only one I can find so far but I'd prefer to get one that can be pinned in place.

jp0319
31 March 2010, 04:55
Dont be afraid they are very friendly and customer oriented. I placed an order from Joe Marler for a custom 14.5" mid length upper and it was pain free.