ST-T2 Heavy Buffer (by Spikes Tactical)

[Dualspringfields]

Nice forum you fellas have here.

I have a Stag 16" Carbine length AR. Im thinking about getting one of these buffers. Not sure if I should. Im wanting to improve my follow-up shots. Would this help in any way? Or am I thinking out of my butt?

Thanks Casey

[Stickman]

I use one in my duty carbine, and use some in my training weapons also. I am very happy with them.

How much of a difference it makes to YOU is going to be heavily dependent on how in tune you are to the weapon, as well as any other changes you make. I notice a difference, but I know guys who do a fair amount of shooting that can;t tell at all.

[Optimus Prime]

I dropped one in my carbine a few days ago. (There's a video in here somewhere... (http://gunscoffee.blogspot.com/2010/07/battle-comp-10-review.html)) Like Stick said, depending on how in tune you are with the gun, it can make a difference. In theory it slows down the cyclic rate of the action and spreads the recoil impulse over a slightly longer span of time, reducing the perceived recoil (think "push" not "kick") and make the gun feel more stable.

For $30 it's worth giving a try if you want to get faster follow-ups.

[Dualspringfields]

Thanks. That's what I was wanting to know.

[rob_s]

The ST-T2 weighs somewhere in-between the H and H2 buffers. Depending on the size of your gas port, length of your gas system, carrier weight, action spring, and ammo used, this extra weight may cause cycling problems that will result in failures to extract and/or failures to lock the bolt back on an empty magazine.

Heavier buffers may result in a change of feel of the recoil impulse, but remember that for every action there is an opposite reaction, and the buffer has to go forward and slam the bolt home too, and extra weight is going to change how that feels as well. Many 3-gun competitors actually run lighter carriers and buffers and work on the amount of gas the system is getting instead.

Either way, even though it's only $30, I think you need to be able to identify a limitation in your stock system before looking for accessories to add or change (this applies to all parts). If you're running various par-time drills like the modified Navy Qual, the Vtac drills that can be found on youtbve, etc. and you're finding that you've reached a plateau, then maybe I'd consider parts like these.

[Rusty_ Shackleford]

I love mine! Very quite too......

[Specialized Armament]

As stated by Rob, the ST-T2 is not a true "H2" buffer. The granulated tungsten used in the buffer is not as dense as the tungsten slugs found in traditional H series buffers. While it may be better than any standard buffer, a true H2 buffer shouldn't be overlooked.

[Dualspringfields]

Mine just has the standard buffer.

[Quib]

As stated by Rob, the ST-T2 is not a true "H2" buffer. The granulated tungsten used in the buffer is not as dense as the tungsten slugs found in traditional H series buffers. While it may be better than any standard buffer, a true H2 buffer shouldn't be overlooked.

Do you think the tungsten powder in the ST-T2 buffer provides for smoother cycling verses the tungsten weights of a traditional H buffer making metal to metal contact with each other during cycling?

I've shot the Spike's piston upper with the ST-T2 installed, but have yet to drop the ST-T2 by itself into my carbine.

[Specialized Armament]

Do you think the tungsten powder in the ST-T2 buffer provides for smoother cycling verses the tungsten weights of a traditional H buffer making metal to metal contact with each other during cycling?

I've shot the Spike's piston upper with the ST-T2 installed, but have yet to drop the ST-T2 by itself into my carbine.

I would imagine that the tungsten in the Spikes product contacts the buffer body just as the slugs do. No, I do not believe tungsten powder models provide any improvement in performance. The ability of the tungsten granules to shift at the proper time is limited. It simply can't instantaneously shift inside the buffer like the slugs can. Think of water in a test tube tipped on its side.

If you like and believe in the product great but don't say it works just as good based on anecdotal evidence. Show me the money. There is quite a bit of engineering and science behind the traditional H buffer models. Granulated tungsten in a buffer is noting new. HK experimented with it for years. I would be quite surprised if the HK IAR automatic rifles are using buffers manufactured with granulated tungsten.

Granulated tungsten is cheaper than tungsten rod, suffers from volumetric/density limitations and doesn't make a cool sound when you shake it your hand... ;)

[5pins]

Is the buffer completely full of granulated tungsten or is there some space to allow the tungsten to move around? If it is completely packed full then I would think it would act like a solid and not move back and forth and would be less beneficial than a standard buffer.

[Quib]

I would imagine that the tungsten in the Spikes product contacts the buffer body just as the slugs do. No, I do not believe tungsten powder models provide any improvement in performance. The ability of the tungsten granules to shift at the proper time is limited. It simply can't instantaneously shift inside the buffer like the slugs can. Think of water in a test tube tipped on its side.

If you like and believe in the product great but don't say it works just as good based on anecdotal evidence. Show me the money. There is quite a bit of engineering and science behind the traditional H buffer models. Granulated tungsten in a buffer is noting new. HK experimented with it for years. I would be quite surprised if the HK IAR automatic rifles are using buffers manufactured with granulated tungsten.

Granulated tungsten is cheaper than tungsten rod, suffers from volumetric/density limitations and doesn't make a cool sound when you shake it your hand... ;)



Thank you Sir for the reply.

Using your example of water in a test tube, I figured the powder would provide for a smoother recoil seeing that powder, much like liquid used as an energy absorber, would react differently to the recoil verses the metal to metal contact against each other that traditional solid carrier weights would have.

I was under the impression that powder as a weight, was sort of a compromise between the traditional solid buffer weights, and the hydraulic action offered by buffers such as the Enidine AR-15 buffer.

[Quib]

Is the buffer completely full of granulated tungsten or is there some space to allow the tungsten to move around? If it is completely packed full then I would think it would act like a solid and not move back and forth and would be less beneficial than a standard buffer.

The ST-T2 is not completely filled with tungsten powder. Without disassembling the sample I have from Spike's I am not sure of the exact amount of space present, but the powder can be heard when the buffer is shaken.

[markm]

The fact that guys buy these things because the coventional buffer makes some noise is curious.

[Quib]

The fact that guys buy these things because the coventional buffer makes some noise is curious.

Lack of knowledge.

How many times have we seen the question asked about something loose in the stock or in the buffer itself.

[5pins]

The ST-T2 is not completely filled with tungsten powder. Without disassembling the sample I have from Spike's I am not sure of the exact amount of space present, but the powder can be heard when the buffer is shaken.
That makes sense.

The fact that guys buy these things because the coventional buffer makes some noise is curious.

I guess if I sat around shaking my buffer then the sound may bother me.

[Dualspringfields]

I wasn't buying it because of noise. Im pretty sure the round being fired makes more noise.

[Quib]

I wasn't buying it because of noise. Im pretty sure the round being fired makes more noise.

I don't believe anyone here was implying that you were. [:)]

There have been those new to the AR, who hear the weights bumping against each other inside the buffer, and automatically assume there is a problem.

[Stickman]

The fact that guys buy these things because the coventional buffer makes some noise is curious.



Regarding changing out a buffer for less noise, thats simply obscene.

I don't think the ST-T2 works any better than the H2 buffer, but it works similar.

Another way to look at the powdered tungsten is like a dead blow hammer.


At the end of the day, you need to make sure that ANY modification, especially a buffer will ensure your carbine run reliably with the ammunition you use.

[Quib]

Another way to look at the powdered tungsten is like a dead blow hammer.



Good example Stick! Very similar design to the dead blow hammers filled with lead shot to prevent bounce-back.

[sangria7]

I love mine.

[Boss Hogg]

I had to mess around with springs and buffers to find a combination that would work in a suppressed and unsuppressed mode in my 12.5" SBR. The Spikes T-2 and Sprinco "Blue" spring seems to be the magic bullet.

a 9mm buffer and "Red" spring wouldn't lock the bolt to the rear when unsuppressed. With normal buffers and springs the bolt outran the magazine.

[markm]

I don't believe anyone here was implying that you were. [:)]

Indeed. I've read the comment made on Barfcom a lot. Not pointing fingers at anyone here at all.

[Dualspringfields]

No problem. I was having a bad day. Sry.

[zero7one]

I absolutely love mine that I have in my duty rifle. It has made a noticeable difference in the noticed recoil...and yes, no more ball bearing noise is heard, though that was never really an issue.

[CLICKBANGBANG]

Most (most) .223 cal carbines will run with a standard H buffer, H2, H3, ST-T2, Enidine hydraulic, 9mm buffers, and even rifle buffers. With some of these the guns are running "in spite" of the buffer, rather than better compared to the H buffer. A .223 carbine gun that is tuned and running well, could run with a 9mm buffer but not better. You will get more bolt bounce because it is not designed or weighted to properly (tuned) cycle. A ST-T2 might have some quality features vs a H2 doesn't but will probably run, reliability speaking, the same. Some may be able to tell the sound or feel of the ST-T2 vs the H2, but honestly I can't. My 14.5" carbine will run fine with a standard H buffer, H2, ST-T2 and the rifle buffer. I did try the rifle buffer just because someone said it would work. All that being said, my gun has a the spikes buffer and I sold some of the other one. My justification to use the Spikes ST-T2 is it sexy.

[Eric]

My 14.5" carbine will run fine with a standard H buffer, H2, ST-T2 and the rifle buffer. I did try the rifle buffer just because someone said it would work. So am I understanding you ran a rifle buffer in a carbine with a collapsible stock?

[zero7one]

My justification to use the Spikes ST-T2 is it sexy.

Can't argue with that!

[RychenCop]

i had swapped my factory M&P buffer with a RRA 9mm. it made a big difference in felt recoil, but of course changed the ejection pattern from around 4 o'clock to around 2. i have since swapped the 9mm for the T2 and they seem very similar. The ejection pattern is about the same and so is the felt recoil impulse. i have not had any reliability issues with any of them and i'm sticking with the spikes. i'm not sure what weight my factory buffer was since i gave it to a friend that needed a replacement.

[wolf_walker]

I probly wouldn't have bought one, but it came with my upper and I figure (assume/hope) that spikes intended the two to work together well. In some limited shooting back to back with the stock carbine buffer, and me being an AR newb, I did feel a difference. I keep coming to the term solid to describe it, but that's pretty vague. The dead blow analogy makes sense, especially after watching that vid online of bolts bouncing that I can't remember where I saw it.
From a mechanics point of view having some weights with plastic between them in a tube banging around seems somewhere between un-elegant and silly, but it obviously works. If it's idel or "good enough" I can't say.
Is the regular buffer part of the original design from way back or a cost cutting mass production measure?

[CLICKBANGBANG]

So am I understanding you ran a rifle buffer in a carbine with a collapsible stock?

No, that would not work. The bolt would only open an inch and the buffer would hit the back of the tube....... Your right I mixed something up. I'm going to call my brother and try and figure out what we did that day with a rifle buffer.

I'll edit my post once I find out.

[Eric]

No, that would not work. The bolt would only open an inch and the buffer would hit the back of the tube....... Your right I mixed something up. I'm going to call my brother and try and figure out what we did that day with a rifle buffer.

I'll edit my post once I find out.

You had me worried there for a bit, since a rifle buffer in a collapsible length receiver extension is a bad thing.