Can you help me reconfigure my AR15?

[Emilio84]

So, after spending a lot of time at the range I have come to the conclusion that as much as I enjoy my AR15 in its current configuration I think it needs a change.

Currently she looks like this....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/paintballny/925b2c2c.jpg


The problem is that most of my shooting is from a rest to targets 1-300yds away. I'd like to make some changes to the buttstock area and the optics. I am thinking of doing the following:

Change Stock to either a Magpul PRS, A1 Length Buttstock, or VLTOR Rifle Modstock. I am in NY so my stock must be fixed (I do not want to pin a collapsable stock). Suggestions?

For the optics I am planning on switching out the Eotech for potentially a Millet DMS 1-4 mounted in a Larue SPR-E mount. I am open to suggestions but want to keep the costs under $500... closer to $3-400 with mount. This will be for shooting targets mostly in the 1-200yd range. Suggestions?

I'm also considering a different grip. I've heard the right handed specific ergo grip is real comfy...


I'm planning on putting together a 9mm AR so the eotech, Ace entry stock, and potentially the grip will be going on that....

[Paulo_Santos]

That is a nice looking AR. I live in NJ and on my personal AR, it had a pinned E-Mod, but now has a pinned I-Mod. If you don't want to go that route, the A1 is the best choice, IMHO. The PRS is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too heavy for that type of build. The Vltor A1 Rifle Modstock is nice, but also overkill for that AR, so I'd go with the A1. For an optic, the DMS is an obvious choice, but I'd also look at the Leupold PR and AR scopes. Check places like SWFA for some low-powered scopes and also check the SWFA Sample List. If you want a pure target scope, it is hard to beat the 10x Super Sniper, which costs around $300.00. You have plenty of good choices in scopes.

[Emilio84]

Thanks for the reply. After more consideration the PRS really is just too much stock... and too heavy for this build. I want this to be more of a close to medium range engagement setup that isn't too bulky/heavy. Something that can engage targets from 25yds out to 200yds. I know thats asking for a lot and most likely negates that 10x scope......


I think I'm gonna go with...

A1 stock
Rifle Length Receiver Extension
Std Rifle Buffer + Spring (this is a midlength)
The DD Sling adaptor on the rifle currently (unless someone knows of a QD sling adaptor that works with A1/A2 style buttstocks)
Ergo RH only grip (maybe?)

+ optic and mount (TBD) - totally open to suggestions..

Should I keep the Ambi Safety on there? Transfer it to the 9mm AR? I think the RH specific grip actually won't allow the use of the Ambi safety now that I think of it...

Also, can someone reccomend a source for an A1 length buttstock? I can only find the Cav Arms A1 length stocks on brownells and google searches...

[Emilio84]

I was pointed towards this site for an A1 stock...

https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/49/products_id/1364

I was also looking at this Tango Down QD sling adaptor.

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/TDPR-16A4.aspx

and (same brand... different look?)

http://www.del-ton.com/TangoDown_Sling_Mount_p/as1022.htm


Not sure if its the same product or different generations of the same product. Also not sure if either one would work with my AR due design of my bcm gunfighter charging handle. It marks up my lower receiver and there isn't much clearance so I don't think it would work.


That just leaves me with the optic and mount issue...

[rob_s]

In terms of stocks, have you considered the Magpul UBR (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-UBR-Utility-Battle-Rifle-Stock-BLACK-p/mag330%20ubr%20stock%20black.htm)? It is pretty much intended for what you're asking. They are not cheap, or lightweight, but the stock offers a wide range of adjust-ability with a very solid lockup and the added weight at the rear can change the balance of the rifle in a good way.

In terms of optics and meeting your 25-200 goal (which is a little different than what you originally stated) the Eogtech or Aimpoint and a good shooter are more than capable of this if the intended targets are "man sized". If, however, you have a need for target ID, or want to shoot tiny little groups, then one of the various 1.x-y optics would be a good choice. From 1.1-4, to 1.5-8, the market is almost flooded with optics of this type. the Trijicon TR21G (http://trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=676&back_row=1&categoryID=5) is a good mid-range priced option and I'm considering putting one on my 6.8 upper. The TA44 range of Compact ACOG scopes can achieve a similar result. I've used a TA44R-8 (http://trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=557&back_row=2&categoryID=3) with great success.

On the subject of tiny little groups...
What barrel is that? and what ammo do you intend to shoot? Even the best of chrome-lined barrels, even with the best of ammunition, are capable of maybe 1.5-2" groups at 100 yards most of the time. Go to a lesser production barrel and feed it milsurp ammo and that will degrade dramatically. I have a rifle I'm writing an article about that produced consistent 1.5-2" groups with milsurp and bulk ammo... at 50 yards. ;)

At that point magnified optics really only served to aid in target ID or discrimination.

[Paulo_Santos]

I'd get the Cavalry Arms A1 stock. Just make sure you get the Millspec rifle length extension tube and not the commercial one. DPMS or BCM should have them. I like the grip you have on there now. It is my favorite, but it is up to you. That Tangodown sling adaptor is a good choice and I'd keep the ambi safety.

[rob_s]

Missed the NY problem. Agreed on the A1-length standard stock given that requirement. God I would hate to have to deal with that crap.

[Paulo_Santos]

Missed the NY problem. Agreed on the A1-length standard stock given that requirement. God I would hate to have to deal with that crap.

It isn't that bad, especially since the FSC556 came out, we now have options for a good muzzle brake. I was never the type to be adjusting my stock too much anyway. Once it was set, I pretty much kept it in the same place. Like anything else, you learn to deal with the laws and adapt.

[Emilio84]

Paulo, I agree the whole law issue is really not bad once you understand them and know your options.

As for the Cav Arms stock I might go that route if I can find a way to replace the buttpad everyone says is terrible. I think it takes a std A2 buttplate which would work for me.

Rob, I'm not really looking for super small groups. I shoot a range of stuff from cheap 55gr milspec ammo to the most expensive 70+ gr match ammo for giggles. 90% of the time its more likely than not M855 62gr or XM193 55gr.

As for the optic that Trijcon is way out of my league pricewise.. especailly after you figure in a mount. I was hoping to walk away at $400 or so with a mount. Perhaps my best move right now is to grab a mount from larue and put that PO Boy magnifier on the rifle. Then when I build my 9mm I can grab a super light H-1 or T-1 for that setup.

[tac40]

Have you considered the Leupold scope? I like Rob S and Paulo suggestion. It sounds like you shoot alot at mid-range. Bi-pod considerations or just at the rest? I had the same stock but sold it to a friend and now use Vltor and Crane.

[Emilio84]

The Leupold optics are nice. I checked out the Mark AR series on SWFA and the ones that fall into my budget at the 1.5-4x and 3x9 optics with the Burris PEPR mounts are right there in my price range. Any opinions on those?

[rob_s]

I can't think of a $400 variable optic I'd want to buy. I own a Leupold 3-9x that's a European model I got for about that but I use it for checking accuracy of ARs and nothing else.

[Emilio84]

Makes sense.. seems like when it comes to optics you really need to pay to play. I think I'm sticking with my decision to grab a flip to the side mount for my heinsoldt magnifier and run that on my current setup.

[Emilio84]

Oh, I never asked but would there be an issues with running a 16" midlength barrel/gas system with a rifle buffer system (std rifle buffer and spring)?

[Paulo_Santos]

Oh, I never asked but would there be an issues with running a 16" midlength barrel/gas system with a rifle buffer system (std rifle buffer and spring)?

That's no problem at all. Also, for the Cav Arms stock, you can use a regular A2 buttplate as they are much better.

[todd.k]

I'd choose the Vltor A1 length with the QD points over an A1 with DD mount, I don't like anything longer than the A1.

For range use I'd recommend a simple 1-4 like this:
http://www.samplelist.com/-P1158.aspx

For serious use illumination is a must so cost goes up for a good one.

[Emilio84]

Just as an update...

I got my Larue LT649T mount for my magnifier. I really like this setup. I cannot wait to get out to the range with it.

I did order an A1 stock so I will be going with that.

Now I just need to pick a rear sling mount. I am most likely going with the tango down mount for two reasons. I bought the a1 stock to go shorter (should actually be just a little longer than my current setup.... and I never liked the loose feeling I got when I added the DD sling adaptor. Between the sling adapter and the 1" extension it just wasn't a tight and solid feel like I was hoping for.

Does anyone know if the a1 and a2 stock profiles are the same? I ask because the tango down description states it is for a2 stocks. I am under the impression that they are the same minus the length. Can anyone confirm?

[rob_s]

I'd go with Todd's suggestion above, Vltor A1-length fixed stock (http://www.vltorstore.com/products/ARM%3A-Rifle-Stocks.html). Comes with QD sling swivel attachment point at the forward position.

[Emilio84]

I'd go with Todd's suggestion above, Vltor A1-length fixed stock (http://www.vltorstore.com/products/ARM%3A-Rifle-Stocks.html). Comes with QD sling swivel attachment point at the forward position.

I was heavily considering the a1 Vltor stock but I just didn't like the look of it at all and while that isn't everything it sure does bother me to pay $130 (w/shipping) for something that I consider an eye sore. I wish I had some local shops that carried these items so I could atleast get some hands on time. Heck.. in person the Vltor stock might actually be something I really like.

[rob_s]

If aesthetics are going to be an issue then this gets virtually impossible for anyone to recommend anything as it's going to be totally subjective on your end.

FWIW I've used the Vltor and liked it for what it is, and given the limitations of living in a state with horrible restrictions on your rights.

[Emilio84]

Aesthetics aren't the main driver but without feeling one on a rifle I'm not a huge fan of plunking down the cash only to have to return it or sell it at a loss. I know what a standard a1/a2 stock feels like which is why I purchased an a1 stock. I'm really just looking for the best sling mounting solution now.

[Paulo_Santos]

Does anyone know if the a1 and a2 stock profiles are the same? I ask because the tango down description states it is for a2 stocks. I am under the impression that they are the same minus the length. Can anyone confirm?

It should work. In that area, they are very similar. I'd call Tangodown and confirm.

[Paulo_Santos]

Aesthetics aren't the main driver but without feeling one on a rifle I'm not a huge fan of plunking down the cash only to have to return it or sell it at a loss. I know what a standard a1/a2 stock feels like which is why I purchased an a1 stock. I'm really just looking for the best sling mounting solution now.

The A1/A2 stocks are lighter than the Vltor, but the Vltor is definitely more comfortable with the cheek rests. It just depends on what you prefer. I wish Vltor would update them with the same rear plate like on the E-Mod/I-Mod.

Since you have the Millspec Rifle Extension for the A-1, you can always get a Vltor A1 or A2 later on and try it.

[Emilio84]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/paintballny/205d19b0.jpg

Thanks for the advice guys. This is where I ended up. Very happy with the feel.

[Paulo_Santos]

Looks great.

[peabody]

have you thoughts of just building another rifle ?

i putt together an apex m16 non-chrome lightweight barrel, .625 125 dollars.
with a aluminum free floating handguard from midway, 34 dollars ?
a free A1 stock,
and a plum crazy lower 139 bucks.
.625 single rail gas block, 46 dollars or so ?
gas tube rifle length 10 dollars.
a burris forward mount scope mount 55 dollars' [used]
and a luepold 3x9 that i already had.

i got just a wee bits over 400 in it, and it shoots itty bitty groups.

i just used what parts i had, and some free-bee stuff...
for a super lightweight rifle, she sure shoots great !

peabody


edit :
p.s. the plum crazy lower come's complete . stock ''M4'' and all.
fire control group is all plastic too, but the trigger is very good,
for a plastic lower. its AWSOME' i'll be buying more.
i haven't weighed my rifle' but i figure ? 4.5 pounds ? 5 pounds ? if that ?
later on .i may go with an A1 ACE stock'

[Emilio84]

have you thoughts of just building another rifle ?

i putt together an apex m16 non-chrome lightweight barrel, .625 125 dollars.
with a aluminum free floating handguard from midway, 34 dollars ?
a free A1 stock,
and a plum crazy lower 139 bucks.
.625 single rail gas block, 46 dollars or so ?
gas tube rifle length 10 dollars.
a burris forward mount scope mount 55 dollars' [used]
and a luepold 3x9 that i already had.

i got just a wee bits over 400 in it, and it shoots itty bitty groups.

i just used what parts i had, and some free-bee stuff...
for a super lightweight rifle, she sure shoots great !

peabody


edit :
p.s. the plum crazy lower come's complete . stock ''M4'' and all.
fire control group is all plastic too, but the trigger is very good,
for a plastic lower. its AWSOME' i'll be buying more.
i haven't weighed my rifle' but i figure ? 4.5 pounds ? 5 pounds ? if that ?
later on .i may go with an A1 ACE stock'

Funny you should ask. I am actually in the process of building a 9mm AR right now and will be putting together a lightweight KISS upper for that lower which will have a sully stock on it. I may go the same route as you and keep an eye out for good deals and build it up over the winter.

[peabody]

Funny you should ask. I am actually in the process of building a 9mm AR right now and will be putting together a lightweight KISS upper for that lower which will have a sully stock on it. I may go the same route as you and keep an eye out for good deals and build it up over the winter.



good luck with your build' i've had a blast putting mine together'
as i get older' im starting to go ''lightweight'' on everything...lol.