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Ripcode
6 August 2010, 08:05
I could use some help with gear selection.

Intent of gear: Local 3-gun matches and future tactical courses and of course Zombies/SHTF. [:D]

I was thinking (keeping it basic to start):

TT 2-piece MAV with the X-harness. 5.56 Single mag pouches (4 to 6) and a hydration pouch.

Color - Coyote or OD?? I don't want to look Mall Ninja or airsofter, but then again I don't want to look an operator wannbe.

I hope you can guys can help. It took me a long time to get the guts to post this. I've watched people get ripped apart asking gear questions on ARFCOM. :confused:

Stickman
6 August 2010, 22:32
Glad you posted. Have you thought about using a warbelt instead of the MAV? The belts have a lot going for them, especially for what you are describing. If you are looking to stay with a harness system, the 2 piece MAV is very worth looking at, but the warbelt might be worth a look as well.

I've got a FDE warbelt setup around here somewhere, I'll see if I can dig up a picture. I'm not trying to change your mind, just trying to give you options to explore so you can get what is going to work out best for you.

Ripcode
6 August 2010, 22:48
Glad you posted. Have you thought about using a warbelt instead of the MAV? The belts have a lot going for them, especially for what you are describing. If you are looking to stay with a harness system, the 2 piece MAV is very worth looking at, but the warbelt might be worth a look as well.

I've got a FDE warbelt setup around here somewhere, I'll see if I can dig up a picture. I'm not trying to change your mind, just trying to give you options to explore so you can get what is going to work out best for you.

Stick,

I am open to advice, so yes I would like to see this warbelt setup.

agentcox000
7 August 2010, 06:57
Here is a photo of my warbelt setup, to hold you over until Stick posts another one of his awesome photos! :P

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/102_01831.JPG

Paulo_Santos
7 August 2010, 09:53
Here is a photo of my warbelt setup, to hold you over until Stick posts another one of his awesome photos! :P

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/102_01831.JPG

This is what I was going to recommend for 3-gun shooting. In particular, the AR magazine holder. That set-up is much faster than a traditional style chest rig.

agentcox000
7 August 2010, 11:11
This "warbelt" setup goes with me on every range trip, where my TT 2-Piece MAV usually stays in the trunk of my patrol car for fulfilling more of an active shooter role. Very fast reloads and high relative comfort are just two of the positive aspects of this setup. I may look into some sort of suspender system for it though, as sometimes is gets a little heavy on the hips when fully loaded with mags and ammo. Another thought I had was rigging up some sort of belt keepers for it.... not sure how well that would work due to the width of the belt, being much wider than my day to day duty belt. All in all, I would recommend this setup to anyone and everyone looking for a run and gun rig. TT MAVs are great, but in my opinion work better to supplement the "warbelt" or police duty belt. Hope this helps.

Ripcode
7 August 2010, 13:58
I Googled the warbelt. It is made by ATS?

Who makes those plastic magazine holders?

Optimus Prime
7 August 2010, 15:06
I have interest in the belt set-up as well. Been thinking about setting something like that up.

agentcox000
7 August 2010, 16:47
The pistol mag pouch is the Magna Mag Double from Tactical Tailor. They have magnets in them that help with retention. The rifle mag pouches are ITW Fast Mags Gen 3. The dump pouch is by CSM Tactical Gear, its the Mini Drop Pouch, the standard one was VERY large and hung to low. The mini is just right. The holster is Bladetech and is holding a Glock 34 with Streamlight TLR-1. To the right of the holster is a Surefire G2L held in a Tactical Tailor Knife Pouch. The belt itself is the ATS Warbelt with a Specter Gear Tactical Operations Belt holding it all up. If anyone has any more questions, feel free to shoot...

Optimus Prime
7 August 2010, 16:58
How is the holster attached?

agentcox000
7 August 2010, 17:23
The bottom of the ATS Warbelt is open on the sides above your hips. The holster is actually attached to the Specter Gear Belt that is underneath. This makes for a very secure and easy draw stroke because the Spector Gear Belt is rigid and does not allow the whole system to ride up during the draw. To make it easier I snapped a quick photo just now. Also the second photo is to clarify the handgun mag pouches. The black one you see in the photo above is a Blackhawk CQC mag pouch that is actually attached to the Specter Gear Belt itself as it exits the ATS Warbelt. It is my go to pistol mag, then I work my way back.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/104_0176.JPG

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/104_0177.JPG

Hope this helps, any more ?'s feel free...

TehLlama
8 August 2010, 09:44
The only question I have is with the holsters hanging directly from the belt, does the draw every lift the belt or get bound by that odd angle. I even have this to a degree with my on-hip placed 6004.

agentcox000
8 August 2010, 11:46
I have never had the gun hang up on the belt coming out of the holster. This is because Bladetech builds in an offset along with drop in this model of holster I have. It sets the gun at an outward angle from the body when the belt is worn. This really isn't visible in my previous photos. I did have the whole rig get pulled up while in my draw stroke quite a bit in the beginning. It is definitely a trial and error process getting the holster's retention adjusted "just right" where it doesn't pull the belt up, but at the same time has enough tension to keep the gun in the holster for things like running ect. Now that I have it adjusted perfectly for my draw, I have zero issues getting my pistol into the fight in a hurry. Here are a couple photos showing how the warbelt itself actually tucks in behind the body of the holster preventing hang ups. In the second photo I have the pistol about halfway out of the holster, just so you can see how much clearance there really is. Hope this helps.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/104_0198.JPG

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/104_0200.JPG

rob_s
8 August 2010, 11:56
If it's a belt system you want take a hard look at www.usgruntgear.com. He's doing a much better system IMHO that the other pad-over-belt systems. I have a review of his Warhog on my site.

Ripcode
8 August 2010, 19:21
These belt systems are nice. I did not know about them!

Uglyduck
8 August 2010, 22:38
I use an inner/outter belt from Jones Tactical (http://www.jonestactical.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4:2q-dutygun-belt-2dgb-01&catid=2&Itemid=6). I like it because the velcro keeps the belt from riding up and its not too obtrusive. The pic below shows it in an old format (and without the inner belt). I've since changed the AR and pistol mag pouches to Blue Force Gear Ten Speed like dual and triple mag pouches. I like the Ten Speed construction for the smooth draw stroke, light weight, and low profile but I'm still undecided on the level of retention.

I like where Stick's going with this (maybe), especially when you take Rob's article " Load Carriage for Training Classes (http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/56227.html) " into consideration. Rob's logic made sense and I since changed my 3-gun setup to reflect what equipment I may have on me when not shooting a match so I'm consistent on and off the range. His advice is something I should've heeded long ago as my wallet can attest to. I'm not implying this is the only way to do it, its just another option and one that made sense to me considering my multiple uses, much like yours.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii318/uglyfireduck/P1010005.jpg

rob_s
9 August 2010, 05:08
I use an inner/outter belt from Jones Tactical (http://www.jonestactical.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4:2q-dutygun-belt-2dgb-01&catid=2&Itemid=6). I like it because the velcro keeps the belt from riding up and its not too obtrusive. The pic below shows it in an old format (and without the inner belt). I've since changed the AR and pistol mag pouches to Blue Force Gear Ten Speed like dual and triple mag pouches. I like the Ten Speed construction for the smooth draw stroke, light weight, and low profile but I'm still undecided on the level of retention.

I like where Stick's going with this (maybe), especially when you take Rob's article " Load Carriage for Training Classes (http://www.tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/56227.html) " into consideration. Rob's logic made sense and I since changed my 3-gun setup to reflect what equipment I may have on me when not shooting a match so I'm consistent on and off the range. His advice is something I should've heeded long ago as my wallet can attest to. I'm not implying this is the only way to do it, its just another option and one that made sense to me considering my multiple uses, much like yours.




Hopefully something similar to that article will be coming out in SWAT soon.

IMHO for anyone outside the military your daily carry pistol in your daily carry holster/location is of the utmost importance. If you must deviate for comfort reasons (such as needing to carry additional load for training/competing) then you should do everything you can to keep your pistol as close as possible to your every day carry spot. Carrying ever day in an IWB at 4 o'clock and training/competing with a drop-leg holster at 3 o'clock is counter-productive in my experience and observation. EVERYTHING ELSE builds from this.

Which is why I'm warming to the battle belts from US Grunt Gear. They let me carry the added load of more mags, dump pouch, light, utility tool, and trauma kit that I want for training but also allow me to put the holster almost exactly where it is on my body every day. From there if I want/need more ammo I can add a light chest rig. Alternate option would be to maintain the daily carry gear on the belt (pistol, light, spare magazine) and use a light chest rig to carry rifle mags, trauma kit, and tool. I tend to like to add one carbine mag in a kydex holder to the belt in this situation as well.

Some other articles you may find helpful or interesting.
Make Holes, Prevent Holes, Patch Holes - Armor & Load Carriage System (http://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_88c26jvfc7)

US Grunt Gear Warhog Tactical Padded MOLLE Belt (http://docs.google.com/View?id=drnhb8z_235dq6w3df6)

Evolution of a Chest Rig (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/50303.html) (kind of a lessons-learned/what-not-to-do thing)

Ripcode
10 August 2010, 20:38
This is excellent information guys! Exactly the kind of information and discussion I was hoping for! [:D]