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sangria7
15 August 2010, 08:07
Hi All,

It is my understanding I can roll the original serial number of the lower into the SBR registration. Also I will need to engrave. Now as far as engraving, can I just take an engraving pen and do it myself?

Or does it have to be done in any specific manner?

Hmac
15 August 2010, 08:59
ATF rules are that the maker's name and location need to be "engraved, cast, stamped by impression, at a minimum depth of .003" with a height no smaller than 1/16" on the frame, receiver, or barrel". I doubt an engraving pen can meet those requirements.

Consider downloading the NFA handbook. http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/

Army Chief
15 August 2010, 10:37
Engraving is not a DIY project. If you go this route, have it done professionally by a firm that is well-acquainted with ATF requirements for these weapons.

AC

Hmac
15 August 2010, 13:35
The two engraving specialists that I know of are Orion Arms in Lino Lakes Minnesota and Ident Marking Services in Texas. I opted for Ident (even though Orion is only about 1.5 hours from here) because they were significantly cheaper in both the engraving and the return shipping.

sangria7
15 August 2010, 18:17
Thanks for the great info.

Not saying its correct, but I just trolled another forum, and several people used an engraving pen. But yes they had to make sure it was deep enough for the NFA standards.

Army Chief
16 August 2010, 04:26
If we've learned anything in dealing with the ATF (just as with any branch of the federal government), it is that a wise man will remove any doubt when it comes to demonstrating compliance with the law.

I don't want to make more of this than is warranted, but the engraving requirement here is no different than the one imposed upon commercial manufacturers, and although there are multiple methods of accomplishment (engraving, casting or stamping), surface engraving with an electric pen is not among them.

Perhaps the greatest obstacle to the DIY approach is this: it is extremely difficult to engrave to the minimum .003" depth with any consistency by hand. The entire inscription must meet this standard, and there is no such thing as "close enough" when dealing with NFA law. Note that the law does not say ".003" at the deepest point," which is about the best result that one is likely to get by hand.

There are other obstacles here, as well. Given that a significant amount (in relative terms) of information must be inscribed onto the receiver, that it must be at least 1/16" in height, and that it must be completely legible, it woudn't be terribly practical to attempt this at home, even if one was sure that the depth requirement could be met. One slip, and you've potentially ruined your receiver.

I'm not suggesting that this absolutely cannot be done, but rather, that it is an amateurish and unprofessional means of attempting to "just barely" meet the requirement; especially when there are reasonably-priced services available for doing it correctly.

Reference: ATF 5300.4, section 479.102

AC

todd.k
16 August 2010, 08:44
The 23&P has instructions for re-stamping info on a receiver and blocking the mag well to keep from damaging the receiver. I'd recommend stamping if you are going to do it yourself because it will get the depth and be legible without much trouble.

m249saw
20 August 2010, 06:36
I used Ident Marking. Good price and a fantastic job. Looks like it came from Mega with it already engraved.

EODcrawler
28 September 2010, 08:25
Hello all. I'm pretty new to the forum and am doing alot of reading before I start tackling my first SBR and had a question on this issue. I know that all SBRs have to be engraved with the builder info, but is there a specific place it HAS to be engraved? I would like to get a custom laser engraved pic on the right side of my mag well, so I would like to stay away from that area. I'll compromise if needed.

m249saw
28 September 2010, 10:01
Just has to be visible. Front of Magwell, on he right side of the receiver above the fire control markings, even on the underside of the trigger guard on a Billet lower.

EODcrawler
28 September 2010, 10:07
Thanks. Exactly what I needed to know.

Optimus Prime
28 September 2010, 10:19
Does anybody know of a decent engraver around Wisconsin? Or can I go through somebody like Ident without having to ship back through my FFL?

Hatter
28 September 2010, 11:07
Optimus I'm down in Milwaukee and my local shop isn't set up for Class 3. They gave me the card of a dealer in the Southeast WI area for Class 3. I also asked them about the engraving and they told me that he'd be able to get me the information. I still need to get in touch with him since I had been waiting for Rainier to release their billet lowers. I'll get his card from home this evening if you're still interested and I can PM you the info. Let me know.

Optimus Prime
28 September 2010, 19:42
Optimus I'm down in Milwaukee and my local shop isn't set up for Class 3. They gave me the card of a dealer in the Southeast WI area for Class 3. I also asked them about the engraving and they told me that he'd be able to get me the information. I still need to get in touch with him since I had been waiting for Rainier to release their billet lowers. I'll get his card from home this evening if you're still interested and I can PM you the info. Let me know.

That would be fantastic. I'm still in the planning stages on mine (waiting for funds.... grumble grumble slow sign-on bonus payments...) but it would be good to have a lead on that.

Hmac
29 September 2010, 11:25
Ident and Orion are both 07/02 FFL's and SOT and as such can send your lower directly back to you after engraving. That's how it worked for me with Ident...even though I had my FFL send it to them (no UPS hub around here), they sent it back directly to me.

Optimus Prime
29 September 2010, 11:43
Ident and Orion are both 07/02 FFL's and SOT and as such can send your lower directly back to you after engraving. That's how it worked for me with Ident...even though I had my FFL send it to them (no UPS hub around here), they sent it back directly to me.

Good to know. Plenty of optioins then.

todd.k
29 September 2010, 11:43
Any FFL gunsmith can repair NFA items. I'd recommend getting the engraving done before sending the Form 1 anyway.

Firearms shipped to an FFL for repair are shipped directly back to the customer.

Hatter
3 March 2011, 18:06
I had been working with Orion to get my SBR engraving done. I was trying to learn more about the process, pricing, and lead time. In the way of commerce I figured I'd get a competitive quote from the guys down at Ident. The responses and time for which I received those responses secured my business with Ident. Pricing was just about the same for the two companies but the shorter lead time at Ident and the EXTREMELY friendly customer service that Gordon provided was awesome!

Since I had to form an LLC to get my NFA needs filled I decided I might as well get a nice looking logo to go with it. I created the DXF that included LLC name and location and sent it down to Gordon at Ident. He said he would hold my receiver if I couldn't get my logo complete by the time he received it. The original quote he gave me for the original text of name and location still stood for the logo as well. I'm expecting to get it back any day and let everyone know how the work looks.

Then it'll be assembling the lower receiver kit and stock and driving myself insane as I wait for my stamp... tic toc... tic toc...

usmcvet
19 March 2011, 18:44
There is no depth requirement for you as the "Maker" adding your name, city and state or your trusts name, city and state. There is a depth requirement for the serial number on the weapon but this is not what you will be engraving. You could use an engraving pen but that would look like hell. You can engrave the upper or bbl too if you'd like. Most folks engrave the lower. Ident or Orion would be two excellent choices. I'm sure there are others too.

usmcvet
19 March 2011, 18:48
Also once you remove the SBR or SBS bbl or upper the status has changed and you no longer have an SBR or SBS. You could use your "SBR" lower with a 16+" upper say for a class in another state that does not allow SBR's. So there is no issue on who can or can not work on your lower that said it would suck to loose the lower you've registered.

Hmac
19 March 2011, 21:30
There is no depth requirement for you as the "Maker" adding your name, city and state or your trusts name, city and state. There is a depth requirement for the serial number on the weapon but this is not what you will be engraving. You could use an engraving pen but that would look like hell. You can engrave the upper or bbl too if you'd like. Most folks engrave the lower. Ident or Orion would be two excellent choices. I'm sure there are others too.

That name/trust, city, state of the "maker" does need to adhere to the .003" depth requirements, same as the serial number. (479.102 of NFA)