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View Full Version : Every day carry in .38 Super



Hatter
17 August 2010, 11:50
I was browsing a few different websites and was very intrigued by the Bill Wilson Carry pistol (Wilson Combat) and the Kimber Super Carry Pro. I like the 4" barrel 1911 with rounded mainspring housing and de-horned for carry. However I was hoping that these would be available in .38 Super caliber.

Is anyone aware of a similar pistol in this caliber?

Hatter
20 August 2010, 06:13
Bueller...?

Bob Reed
20 August 2010, 21:19
Hello Hatter,

Respectfully, you'll be much better off sticking with a traditional 5" Colt and not going below a 4.25" inch Colt Commander Model that's chambered for Super .38, obviously thou, you'll have to find a used Commander because Colt sadly doesn't offer The Commander in Super .38 at the current time. The other makers bushing-less 4" barrels with non-traditional guide rods are not what their cracked-up to be and Kimber's are full of MIM Parts. In fact, they've got so much MIM in 'em that they've earned the nick-name MIMber amoung certain folks. That said, the original Series I Kimber's were OK, plus they didn't have that dreaded Swartz style firing pin block.

The Colt Super .38 (it's correct spelling from 1929 untill Colt changed it ~ 1970 due to fools loading Super .38 cartridges into their .38 ACPs) is the only brand I'd personally consider. The Colt has a traditional feedramp and barrel arrangement, easier & quicker field stripping, comes with quality parts right from the factory and is made the closest to Browning's original spec's (remember, ole John still knows more about The M1911 than anyone, and The M1911 is totally reliable when made to John Browning's spec's!).

It's also good to keep-n-mind that most of the aftermarket 1911 parts at this point in time are MIM Junk that comes from a middle eastern MIM factory that just puts the same ole outta spec MIM parts in differently labled bags for whichever customer's order their filling that day. So again, a Colt is the wiser choice because you can order Genuine Colt Parts that are made to spec for your Colt Pistol. Of course you can use Genuine Colt Parts in the other brands as well, but when you start installing them you'll see just how far-out these other makers are from Colt's spec's.

Here's a link to a nice Super that'd make an excellent carry piece, and it's offered by an excellent company to do business with.
http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/Colt_38_Super_Model_O2091_Stainless-826-275.html

Be sure to also check out the custom mainspring housings that Specialized Armament has.
http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/MAINSPRING_HOUSING_SAW_GEN1_ILAP_GOV_T_FLAT_CARBON _options_info-596-203.html

Genuine Factory Colt, Super .38 Magazines are the best single-stack Super mags that's available and they can be found about half way down this page via. the link. http://www.specializedarmament.com/catalog/Colt_1911_Parts-11-0.html

Wondering Beard
21 August 2010, 07:53
Hi Hatter,

I'm in agreement with most of what Bob Reed wrote you.

Keep to a full size gov't model or a Commander model. The more you shrink a gun the more, the less room you have for error in the design of tolerances, the more reliability is affected. Some renowned gunsmith even refuse to work with Commander sized guns, never mind smaller ones. The original design of GI bushing and guide rod works still better than anything else that's been invented since and I , personally, wouldn't have any of my 1911s set up any different.

As to MIM parts, it's a bit of a hit or miss proposition. From what I understand (I'm no metallurgist) proper heat treating of a MIM part makes it as good as a regular steel part but I have never been able to tell them apart just by looking. As a result, my 1911s have only regular steel parts.

Any particular reason you want to go with the 38 Super? I ask because the way it's loaded nowadays, it isn't much more powerful than a 9mm+P. The 9x23, which, as I remember it, only requires a different barrel on a 38 Super gun offers more power without much, if any at all, increase in recoil or muzzle flip. On the downside, ammo is not easily available at all; then again good defensive ammo in 38 Super is nowhere near as common as for 45 ACP.

Like Bob, I would keep to a Colt and get some work done on it by a quality gunsmith (who does fighting guns not competition guns since the title of your post is about an EDC pistol). Still, I hear very good things about Nighthawk Customs (http://www.nighthawkcustom.com/) and they might be able to accomodate you.

Bob, I didn't realize that SAW was making those mainspring housings. This is giving me ideas for a project :-)

P.S. how do you guys post a link so that instead of having the full URL written out you just have the name?

Hatter
21 August 2010, 10:44
For me the thought process was as follows:

Full size GI 5" models are bulky and heavy. Although I'm confident I could conceal with a good Cross Bread holster I may not always want to carry a full size.

A 4" model with bobtail cut would lend itself to a lighter weapon and easier concealability. I'd also be able to carry a few more rounds of .38 super compared to a similar size .45 ACP. Since all of my guns are every day shooters that get lots of range time, a .38 super may also be more comfortable to shoot on a regular basis and I know that my EDC is a gun I need to be comfortable with.

My understanding was that the .38 Super was designed in the 1920's as a more powerful load to penetrate steel car doors and other types of armor. Having a more powerful load than 9mm in a concealable gun, that's comfortable to shoot, and allows me a few more rounds than 45 ACP was attractive to me.

Keep in mind I'm researching so please comment on anything I may be wrong about. However, if I'm going to carry a full size 5" 1911, I will without a doubt carry my Springfield TRP. After firing Colts, Beretta 96's, PX4, SA XD .45 Service, XDM 9 mm, and Loaded Combat 1911 the TRP is my favorite and my baby. If a full size is coming with me its that.

The nice thing about a Cross Bread holster for 1911's is that without a light rail, as I understand, I should be able to carry all sizes with the same holster. This helps for clothing styles and hot / cold weather changes.

I've looked into the Nighthawk customs a little bit. Is there any association there with Wilson Combat? They appear to have extremely similar websites... and I'll be sure to check out the SAW pages.

Not sure what you mean about the full URL. When I create a post or thread I just click new thread and give it a title at the top of the new post.

Wondering Beard
22 August 2010, 08:58
Nighthawk was created by people who used to work for Bill Wilson. I don't know exactly what happened but everything I have read seemed to indicate that the split wasn't friendly.

You are correct, I believe, about what the 38 Super was capable of doing at the time of its creation. Armor and car doors have evolved since then and the 38 Super isn't as capable as it once was. The thing is that the 38 Super is simply not loaded commercially to its full potential (which should be in the 357 magnum range) and hot loads in 9mm (+p and up) are as and sometimes more powerful (winchester's 127gr +P+ comes to mind) than the 38 Super (whether that power really translates into more effectiveness in flesh is another story).

I don't mean to dissuade you from continuing to research your idea; I have often been interested in carrying a fast stepping 9mm sized round in a 1911 single stack gun and I think it's a very valid combo. I know Skip Gochenour of NTI fame often carries a Commander slide over an Officer's ACP frame in 9x23 and has been perfectly with it (it was put together by Jim Garthwaite - http://www.garthwaite.com/ - a great gunsmith).

All I mean to say is that if this is the direction youre going in, you probably want to stay away from anything shorter than a Commander sized gun and that the 38 Super is not the only game in town caliber wise. Actually, you could get a set up with two or three barrels, one in 9mm for practice and plinking, one in 38 Super for your reloads and experimentation and one in 9x23 for EDC. The recoil isn't much different between the three and muzzle flip is still less than 45 ACP, in my hands at least.

The pressures generated by hot 9s are much higher than the 45 ACP and alloy frames are often considered to not be strong enough to handle them if a lot of shooting is going to done through them. Steel frames are more forgiving in this regard but the gun ends up weighing nearly as much as a full size Gov't model.

I don't know anything about Crossbreed Holsters but you are correct that a Gov't model and a Commander model can fit in the same holster, just in the same way that a G19 and a G17 can fit in the same holster.

I guess I didn't explain myself well about links. I was asking how, in the text of the post, one could avoid having to write out the full URL and make it look the same way paulosantos did in this post: http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?2509-Review-of-the-A.R.M.S.-71L-series-Front-and-Rear-Sights-Set.