Configuring my first AR for HD/Varmint - Need advice

[BobinLaConner]

Hi All, I have been reading posts for a while and yes this is post #1. I am now in the first part of the process of configuring my first AR style rifle although I am not new to tactical or hunting guns, just never thought I needed a tactical .223. After starting into this and handling these guns, I love them and found out that yes I do in fact "need" one. Like me, I am sure there are countless other newbies asking for help on their first build with their first post, but hopefully some of you with experience don't mind handing out some advice to help me avoid making the typical mistakes. I have talked to people all over and really appreciate all the help and advice I have received so far. I especially want to thank the folks at Rainier Arms, I went into their store and they took the time and answered my countless questions and really helped me learn about the different options/equipment...great guys. I hope to purchase from them after I decide.

At first I was thinking a varmint specific gun and I looked at ARs in various local gun stores that had one or two rifles that seemed of lower quality and really front heavy. But I stumbled onto Rainier and looked at the Daniel Defense, Rock River and other brands (they also have their own custom builds) that all felt good in my hand. So far they seem like the best gun I have found that is still within a reasonable price for me. Actually they are expensive for me, but I figured I wouldn't regret a better gun.

My goal is to have an accurate, reasonably light and reliable gun capable of taking out a coyote at medium range and also be lightweight enough to be a nice handling backup gun for HD use (my first is a mossberg tactical shotgun) and for range use plinking at targets and having fun. I want to make sure if there are upgrades that make a big difference I want to consider them. The last thing I want is the "I wish I would have added the better ____ for $50" feeling.

So here is what I am thinking...If you have a moment and don't mind helping, please let me know your suggestions, comments or advice on my build.


So far the gun that I want is based on the Daniel Defense DDA4 platform that I saw in .223/5.56 (or equivalent from Rainier Arms)
w/ longer quad rail fore end
I really don't know enough about what I want regarding piston version or gas block design (still trying to read more about it)
16" accurate barrel (need advice on most accurate but still lightweight enough / easy to handle and ready for suppressor later)
twist rate for shooting cheap ammo at the range, but still able to send heavier weight rounds to a coyote at 150 yds
I'd like a better quality trigger
not sure if I want fold down sights or permanent fixed
An Aim Point Sight with QR larue mount (and possibly another scope to swap out as needed for longer range coyotes)
QR Bipod
telescoping stock with cheek rest
Magpul Magazines
possibly a tactical light, but I don't want to hang too much on the gun.

After the purchase...I plan on taking some good training with it to feel comfortable shooting, taking it apart, cleaning, reaction to scenarios ... and then just enjoy using it.



So at this point I am trying to fine tune my list and get feedback on whether I am making good choices

I appreciate anyone chiming in.... thanks


Bob

[Paulo_Santos]

Welcome Bob. You are looking for a Varmint AR (Precision) and a HD/Plinking (Combat). As you can see, they are two totally different animals.

You have two options and it will depend on how much you are willing to spend. First, I'll start with the lower:

LOWER:
Get a lower with a comfortable stock like the Magpul UBR or the Vltor E-Mod or I-Mod. I'd get the Geiselle SSA 2-stage trigger as it is durable and great for accuracy.

UPPER:
This is where you have two options. You can either get two separate uppers, which is the best option, or you can get a do-it-all upper.
If you go with the two different uppers, you can just get a decent chrome-lined upper of your choice with the Aimpoint that you want to get and a 16" or 18" precision/SPR upper with a regular scope.

If you only want to get 1 upper, then you have to compromise. I'd suggest getting a 16" Stainless Steel barrel with a 12" handguard with a 1:7"/1:8" twist as they will handle all of the ammo you will shoot. Then get an Aimpoint in a QD mount and a regular scope in a QD mount. Personally I'd get front and rear flip-up BUIS.

[BobinLaConner]

Thanks for the reply, it helps to hear from people that have good knowledge and experience.

I like the idea of two separate uppers for the two ends of the spectrum, but at first I will just be trying to get the compromise out of one for now (I know it isn't the best way). But maybe I should lower my expectations of having a 200 yd precision piece until I can afford the second upper with scope. But I think even a nice CQ HD rifle in line with your 2nd "single upper" option should be able to do some decent medium range (100 yds) work too.

I will look into your suggestions on...
16" Stainless Steel barrel with a 12" handguard with a 1:7"/1:8" twist"
Geiselle SSA 2-stage trigger
and front/rear flip up BUIS

[Optimus Prime]

A 16" with a mid-length gas system should be more than able to hold it's own at 100 yards, and would be the best starting point for a "all around" setup. I completely agree with paulosanto about the two upper option, and I think you'd be happiest with that a little further down the road (and, if it were me, that would simply become two whole rifles a little further down the road too.)

For the time being though, I'd toss my vote in for a quality middy for a start. You won't be getting sub-MOA at 300+ yards or anything, but it should be more than able to maintain Minute-of-Coyote out to the 1-200 yard range without too many problems. I'd stick to a 1:7 or a 1:8 twist so you can get the best out of heavier bullet weights, and free-float it for the best accuracy.

As for optics, another option is an Aimpoint or Eotech with a separate magnifier if you're worried about zero issues. Otherwise a couple optics with quality quick detach mounts.

If you plan to use it for a defensive gun, a white light is a must. My favorite as of late is the Streamlight TLR-1, plenty bright, small footprint, and lightweight. The newest generation has a strobe feature too, which I think is a great option on a weapon light.

I'm not completely sold on piston ARs myself, I've never had a problem with the standard gas system, so I don't think the weight gain justifies the questionable benefits.

Regarding the irons, I'd definitely use a flip-up rear, and don't really have any strong feelings towards the front sight. I regularly shoot with folding or fixed and it's never been an issue, and if you're running magnification the FSB will blur out with anything over 1.5x anyway.

[Stickman]

1. My goal is to have an accurate, reasonably light and reliable gun capable of taking out a coyote at medium range and also be lightweight enough to be a nice handling backup gun for HD use (my first is a mossberg tactical shotgun) and for range use plinking at targets and having fun.

2. I really don't know enough about what I want regarding piston version or gas block design (still trying to read more about it)
16" accurate barrel (need advice on most accurate but still lightweight enough / easy to handle and ready for suppressor later)
twist rate for shooting cheap ammo at the range, but still able to send heavier weight rounds to a coyote at 150 yds

3. I'd like a better quality trigger
not sure if I want fold down sights or permanent fixed
An Aim Point Sight with QR larue mount (and possibly another scope to swap out as needed for longer range coyotes)
QR Bipod
telescoping stock with cheek rest
Magpul Magazines
possibly a tactical light, but I don't want to hang too much on the gun.

4. After the purchase...I plan on taking some good training with it to feel comfortable shooting, taking it apart, cleaning, reaction to scenarios ... and then just enjoy using it.


Bob


1. I agree with most of what has been stated in the above posts, but I also wanted to point out that some of the current Cold Hammer Forged (CFH) barrels are shooting around 1 MOA or even better with certain loads. There is a lot of good feedback from the Centurion Arms barrels, and they are available in a 16" Midlength with gov profile. Noveske barrels are known for their accuracy and are available in a midlenght.

I think the ability for you to have your cake and eat it too is doable with the right barrel, and I don't think you need to go with a SS barrel to get there. IF (and its a big if) you max out your CHF barrel accuracy, it will be with high end ammo, great shooting, and a good scope.

2. A 1:7 twist barrel will handle just about anything you can throw through it, especially the longer/ heavier bullets like the 75 and 77 grain for Coyotes. Regarding piston versus gas, unless there is a good reason to fixate on piston, I would go with a gas gun. None of the piston weapons have parts that will interchange with each other, as opposed to gas guns which can swap parts with ease. Getting replacement or parts to keep on hand are a simple matter with the basic AR15.

3. The SSA is a fantastic trigger, and is highly durable. I can recommend that without reservation, especially when you figure I use one on my duty weapon (though I did make mine a slightly heavier trigger pull).

Folding sights are a great way to go, there are few drawbacks aside from an increase on the price tag.

Aimpoints are a great optic, and their durability and extended battery life make them an all around winner. If you are looking for mounts, I would take a hard look at the Bobro. If you are local to Rainier Arms, have them show it to you and see the difference between it and the LT. I think it will answer any questions you might have at that point.

QR bipod is a nice option, but one I would personally add at the end of my purchases. There are a lot of ways to brace a weapon, and a backpack is something you probably have with you most of the time anyway.

Stocks are going to be something you want to play around with before you even think about buying one. The LMT SOPMOD, Vltor EMOD and IMOD, as well as the Magpul ACS are all similar, but have their own unique feel. Another, though more expensive option is the Magpul UBR. Rainer should have all of them, so check them out and see how they feel when you drop your cheek on them.

For magazines, you probably want to grab a 20 round as well as 30 round PMAGs. The 20 rounders certainly make it easier for going prone.

There are lots of different lights on the market, and some of the cheaper ones are getting to be very impressive. Just make sure that whatever you go with can take recoil. There are a few different flashlight forums that go into more tech info that I can give. The other option is just to go with Surefire, and know you have the best beast on the block, though obviously you pay for their well deserved reputation.



If I missed something, or you have any questions about what I wrote, let me know.

[BobinLaConner]

Thanks for the detail on each of the components in your post. That is very good information and really helps with my decision making.

One followup question is: how does the Daniel Defense 16" barrel stack up for accuracy against the Centurion (or others)?


So my running list is evolving...

Daniel Defense DDM4 V5 Complete Rifle (Gas)
w/ Daniel Defense 16" CHF with a 1:7" twist" (ready for suppressor in the future)
Sights - front/rear flip up (Samson or Troy)
Stock of Choice (after comparing which feels best)
Geiselle SSA 2-stage trigger


Accessories:
Daniel Defense Rifle comes with a fore end grip
rubber rail pads
Aimpoint M3 (with Bobro or Larue Mount)
QR bipod?
PMAG (several spare 20 and 30 round mags)
Tactical Light

[rob_s]

Buy a Colt 6920. Shoot the shit out of it. re-evaluate your needs/wants. Yes, I'm serious.

You are obviously a smart guy, and you obviously (think you) know what you want. This is what is going to lead you to sinking thousands of dollars into this endeavor. No, I'm not kidding. If you're ok with that, and it's what you're interested in getting into, then by all means carry on. I am telling you all of this based entirely on my own experience.

there are a lot of innovations gong on in the AR world, from "better" triggers to hammer forged barrels to longer gas tubes, etc. Truthfully none of them is going to do anything exponentially better than a brand new Colt 6920. Incrementally better? yes. Exponentially better? no.

What buying the Colt gets you is a known good product, with the least likelihood of being a lemon or having assembly or quality issues. It is fully capable of under 1 MOA accuracy if you're capable of keeping up with it and willing to feed it the right quality ammunition and taking the time to narrow down what ammo your sample likes best and pair it with a capable optic. It can do this with the stock trigger that comes in the gun. It is light enough to run all day in a carbine class at close range with an Aimpoint without being excessively fatiguing. It can run for thousands, yes thousands, of rounds without cleaning with a simple application of quality lubricant right out of the box.

Do not mistake this as my saying that there is anything inherently wrong with the other suggestions in this thread. I own rifles and other products from many of the manufacturers named and they all make quality gear. But I am more and more becoming a believer that the best route is to start with the basic carbine, shoot the shit out of it in as many different environments and applications as you can and identify your needs and uses as well as the rifle's shortcomings.


The last thing I want is the "I wish I would have added the better ____ for $50" feeling.
IMHO this is EXACTLY the feeling that you want. and you want to get that way based on your own experience putting thousands of rounds downrange.

I realize this is not a popular attitude, or a common one considering I get paid to write reviews that sell product, but it is my honest opinion and it is based on 10 years with the AR platform, 6 years attending carbine classes, 6 years running my own carbine matches, and 3 years running carbine practice nights, and my own direct experience as well as that observing other shooters in that time and those environments.

[tac40]

2nd on the Colt 6920, this is still in my collection of things go bang. Proven in the hands of LEO nation wide.

[BobinLaConner]

Sounds like you really like the Colt...I will take a look at it, but still feeling good about the DDM4. I own several Colts and each of them are nice guns.

[Paulo_Santos]

Another option that I just thought of would be to get an LMT Rifle Length MRP with an 16" or 18" SS barrel and a 14.5" or 16" chrome lined barrel. You can change out the barrels in minutes and they will hold their zero very well.

[TehLlama]

I'd put the DD V5 on par with a comparably set up 6920 - very comparable on price with a FF rail on the colt, with slightly improved furniture out of the box.

I'd run the rifle by itself for a couple range sessions - it's pretty likely you'll think differently about optics and the application you'll end up thinking about for that rifle/optic combo, and might find yourself preferring two dedicated optics to an Aimpoint/Magnifier combination.

The Colt is still the standard, but the highest compliment I can give the DD and BCM CHF models is that they provide an incremental improvement for very little extra cost.
The MRP is another animal entirely - it might fit if you want to run one setup for HD and one for varminting, though this tends to make the most sense with two separate optics as well.

[BobinLaConner]

Rob, when you said "Buy a Colt 6920. Shoot the shit out of it. re-evaluate your needs/wants. Yes, I'm serious. You are obviously a smart guy..." You are making some good sense and I still want to look at the Colt and see how I like it... although I'm not so sure about the "smart guy" part.

Over the weekend I realized the Recce style is really what I want in a gun, something to shoot with at the range, do some short to medium varmint work, with the occasional long shot (and to train with to be a backup CQ HD rig should the SHTF).

Well, I stopped by Rainier Arms (again) today and looked at the different configurations (again) and of course asked a lot of questions (again). I held the DDM4 and also looked at the new RA Recce Build (shown in another thread, I think titled: "Rainier Recon Rifle"). I have to say, John was amazingly tolerant of all of my questions (again), and they have been each time I have been in. But I am sure learning about which components are value-added (and which are not) in narrowing down the build that I want. John and the guys at Rainier Arms (and the folks on Weapon Evolution) are really helping to educate me to avoid making the common mistakes. Although I am just one guy looking at a single gun for now, I think they have definitely earned my business. I know the trend these days is to go look at expensive items in a store locally, ask the questions, compare features and then go find a better deal from one of the "mega companies" to order online. I do purchase some things online, but there is a lot to be said for supporting the local small business that has the great customer support... so they can stay in business to help in the future.


So at this point my running list is getting damn close...

I will go look at the Colt, but I am really leaning towards either the Rainier Arms Recce Rifle or the Daniel Defense DDM4, V5 with the following features...

If it is Daniel Defense DDM4 V5, then it comes with the 16" CHF barrel with a 1:7" twist"

If it is the Rainier Arms then it would be the 16" SS Barrel which may improve accuracy, but I think they are pretty close in performance

On the RA, I would swap out for a Daniel Defense 12" Lite Rail and a Rainer Billet Upper
The RA comes with a BCM Charging handle, but I would add that to the Daniel Defense
Sights - the RA comes with front/rear flip up Samson sights, but I would add those the the Daniel Defense if I went that route
On either gun, it would be the collapsible Stock of Choice and a grip after comparing which fits best
Daniel Defense Rifle comes with a fore end grip
RA comes with a better Compensator/Flash Hider
I think the bolt groups and triggers are similar quality in both


I will add these items at time of purchase, or later for some items:
Optional - Geiselle SSA 2-stage trigger
rail furniture of choice
magpul angled foregrip (AFG)
Aimpoint M3 (with Bobro or Larue Mount)
Varmint Scope on QR mount
QR bipod
PMAGs (several spare 20 and 30 round mags)
Soft Case
Sling


... are there any comments comparing the two? Anything I am not taking into consideration?

[TehLlama]

Everything but the PMags and sling can be bought later - the gun will run out of the box (either one of them).
There's an endless conveyor belt of new gear and accessories, and it costs money to keep up with them, and all told, the performance gains are minor and usually tailored to one specialized use for that weapon. Like any musical instrument, one that's been made correctly and properly maintained will be more than adequate for a good musician or student alike.
Most AR buyers will end up with something completely different looking than they first envisioned - look at the evolutions some guys put their go-to setups through (21 iterations and more sometimes) - so resale value can be quite relevant.

If you're going with the RA - leave it box stock at first too. Billet uppers are really just cosmetic in practical terms (I've still got two of them mind you). It probably fits your needs best, and at a great price.
Tough choice between those three - they all bring something unique to the table - the Colt will retain resale value, the Rainier closest matches a recce purpose you've outlined so far, and the DD does both of those jobs almost as well. A BCM, Centurion, or Noveske could also fit the bill.

I think the real point Rob is trying to nail home is that any very high quality base gun is all you need - take that, and shoot the snot out of it, and you'll have a much more practical weapon system (gun and operator) than loading up with accessories right off the bat. Modular things can be bought later and attached, it's not like having to reconsider a crankshaft in an engine build - even handguard changes can still be made much farther down the road.

[BobinLaConner]

I'm just trying to speed up the process and save that money since I will probably buy all that stuff eventually anyway.

But seriously, I can appreciate what you said in your post. I was planning on doing the optics, trigger and bipod later after I shoot it and have had it for a while. As far as resale value, I am pretty sure I won't ever sell it, I always think that, but it never really happens. I just want a great performing gun to shoot. Then when I am really old and can't see or shoot, I can hopefully give it to my boys someday.

I feel like there is no real wrong choice at this point, all that are listed seem like excellent guns. Once I bring any of these home, it will feel like part of the family in short order.

[federalist22]

Thanks for the reply, it helps to hear from people that have good knowledge and experience.

I like the idea of two separate uppers for the two ends of the spectrum, but at first I will just be trying to get the compromise out of one for now (I know it isn't the best way). But maybe I should lower my expectations of having a 200 yd precision piece until I can afford the second upper with scope. But I think even a nice CQ HD rifle in line with your 2nd "single upper" option should be able to do some decent medium range (100 yds) work too.

I will look into your suggestions on...
16" Stainless Steel barrel with a 12" handguard with a 1:7"/1:8" twist"
Geiselle SSA 2-stage trigger
and front/rear flip up BUIS

A second AR upper laying around is just begging for a second lower to marry up and make a complete second AR from.......speaking from experience on the HD AR and varmint rifle. On the other hand, I have shot prairie dogs with my 16" RRA carbine using a 6-18X40 optic. My primary varmint gun is a RRA 24" RRA Varmint A4 with a few custom mods. If you want a good trigger for varmint shooting, I prefer the Timney single-stage 3-lb or the Chip McCormick 3.5-lb, both are drop-ins. I used the RRA 2-stage for years and have switched to the lighter single-stage triggers for a cleaner break. I hate to say it, but you are looking for two separate rifles.

[rob_s]

It sounds to me like you're leaning more towards the varmint side of your HD/Varmint requirement. this is good in that they really are two separate guns.

I will tell you that a stock Colt (or BCM, or DD) basic M4 can outshoot most shooters and will surprise even more if paired with the right ammo. Things like FF rails give you more flexibility in terms of shooting positions and how resting the gun on one thing or another will affect your point of impact. I still think it's a good idea, and will make you a better shooter and more informed consumer, if you learn the gun and discover it's shortcomings for yourself.

[todd.k]

Your basic AR with Aimpoint should be very capable of taking a coyote at 150. I'd recommend a quality 16" mid length over Rob's 6920 because the handguard is two inches longer, it makes a huge difference to me in how I can place my support hand AND have room for a light.

If you plan to use an Aimpoint I don't think you will be getting much more out of a Recce type rifle. I'd hold off on the precision rig because you may decide that a 18" or 20" barrel would be better for your needs.

[federalist22]

Your basic AR with Aimpoint should be very capable of taking a coyote at 150. I'd recommend a quality 16" mid length over Rob's 6920 because the handguard is two inches longer, it makes a huge difference to me in how I can place my support hand AND have room for a light.

If you plan to use an Aimpoint I don't think you will be getting much more out of a Recce type rifle. I'd hold off on the precision rig because you may decide that a 18" or 20" barrel would be better for your needs.



Good observation: what kind of varmint? I missed it that coyotes may be the varmint of choice. I jumped to the more fun and plentiful prairie dog. In the case of the coyote, the 16" carbine would do fine ( I have taken down a few as far out as 200yds with my RRA carbine), but an 18-20" barrel would do better; a 24" bull is probably overkill, but would be nice for varmint shooting and horrible when it comes to moving through the house......

[BobinLaConner]

Agree...If a high quality 16" like the DD or the RA gun can take a coyote or prairie dog or other varmint out to 150 -200 yds and is a reliable gun, then I am in good shape. Varmint to me = anything between sage rat, prairie dog to coyote or other threatening mammal.

I will have an aimpoint, but also plan to have a scope on a quick release to cover either situation. Maybe at a later time I might build up a dedicated long range prairie dog gun or at least upper, but that might be a different caliber.

These last few days, while I am driving or sitting at home, I am spending my time making mental comparisons on which gun I want (R/A or DDM4). Let's see... if I make a list of pros and cons for each...

[BobinLaConner]

Decision made....

Daniel Defense DDM4 V5 from Rainier Arms

Although the Rainier Arms Recon is a really, really, nice rifle, and the barrel is probably a little more accurate, ( either gun would be amazing to own)... I chose the DDM4. It could have gone either way, but just felt the best in my hands. Also have to say, the guys at Rainier Arms really helped me with all the questions I had and the numerous times "I stopped in to just look". I have never been to a gun store where people knew as much about the product and were as willing to help the new guy. I am not affiliated in any way, but highly recommend them. And a big thank you to everyone that chipped in with the helpful responses on my thread.

[TehLlama]

With a good optic, that should run fine at range, and is a solid looking HD rifle.

[BobinLaConner]

Update - I have had several chances to shoot the DDM4 at the range and have made some additions to it with little mods here and there. I am getting a better feel for what I like and what I want to change. I also want to say to the guys who said "just shoot it as is out of the box for a while"...you were probably right. After shooting a few hundred rounds, I am getting to really like this gun as is and most of the little tweaks are just that. It's a great little gun just as purchased.

When I bought it, I had a few items added to the DDM4 V5 by the guys at Rainier Arms...
BattleComp
Magpul Flip up BUIS
Magpul CTR Stock (Flat Dark Earth)
Magpul MIAD grip to fit my hand better
Some rail ladders (FDE)

and then I added an M3 clone red dot on a Bobro lower 1/3 co-witness mount (its not an Aimpoint, but it works surprisingly great for now)

Since then I have just been shooting it and having a good time sighting it in and getting a feel for it. I have been shooting some Wolf cheap stuff, some
75 gr hornady practice and some TAP 75 gr


But still I had to add a few things...These are items I have added after shooting several boxes and getting a better feel for what I wanted:

BAD Safety Selector with a little bigger safety (feels more like my .45 safety now)
Magpul Battery assist lever (I really am starting to like this little rig)
Vltor Charging handle (medium handle mod 4)...pinches a little skin occasionally, but much easier to use

Things I still want to add...
Trigger...I like the Daniel Trigger, but it is a little heavy for squeezing off that perfect shot. So I am using what I have but still thinking a new trigger at some point
Sling... looking at the Vickers or the VTAC but have not purchased yet
Tripod...Harris on Larue mount or the Bobro

that's about it, great gun and it's a lot of fun. Thanks again for all the input guys.

[BobinLaConner]

been a while since I posted...
First I want to say thanks to all of you who helped me make my selection. You gave me some good advice and probably helped me avoid some mistakes. Also I want to thank the guys at Rainier Arms (again). This Daniel Defense V5 has been awesome, I have had absolutely zero failures or problems.

So since my last post, in between all that has gone on, I have had a lot of fun just shooting at the range when I had the time on weekends. I have now ordered several UPS deliveries of Ammo that were left on the doorstep. We had an unexpected twist and my wife has gone through cancer treatment for the last year and is doing great a year later. (on a side note we found out the UPS driver will leave a box that says "Ammunition.com" all over it on our porch, but they won't leave a box containing her wig for chemo). We (I) had a good laugh at that one. So since my last post I have purchased mostly just ammo, but also bought a sling and most recently a new scope on a Larue mount (Vortex Viper PST 4-16).

So...remember when one of you posted earlier in the thread "...you are really looking at two guns"...? Yes, now I am seriously looking at another AR to make two distinct purpose rifles. Yes you guys were right! One will be the DDM4 V5 configured as the varmint rig with the scope, bipod, and maybe a new trigger and possibly ready for a suppressor. The other might be another DDM4 configured with only a good quality light and a red dot optic as a lightweight HD/SHTF gun. I was thinking that the V5 or the V1 (both with the longer rail) would fit the bill. The V1 has the fixed sight post, but I could mount the light in front similar to the Vickers special edition.

...Then I saw the Rainier Ultramatch Recon 16 Upper and it changed how I was thinking. I thought maybe I could buy that upper for my varmint rig with the scope and use my current upper for the CQ rig. Too many possibilities I guess.

Now I am planning/thinking my best next move to purchase something to end up with two rifles (one ultimate varmint and the other the lightweight CQ rig) I still have the utmost confidence in the Daniel Defense since it has been functioning perfectly for me so far, so I would prefer to stick with DD if possible.

I would post a pic of my DDM4 V5 in its most recent configuration, but I can't figure out how to post directly without hosting somewhere else. Give me some time and I will figure something out. UPDATE - I figured it out (thanks for your help Moxy Dave)

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/BobinCovington/IMG_0248.jpg?t=1316486753


Thanks for the support so far...comments and guidance or advice is always welcome (just don't tell me that what I am really looking for is 3 rifles!)

this is a great site...thanks guys

[MoxyDave]

Interesting thread. Thanks for posting your experiences and glad your wife is doing well.

Try photobucket (http://photobucket.com) for hosting images. It's free and they make it very easy to embed your gallery images on other sites such as WEVO.

[BobinLaConner]

LOL...that didn't take long (not even 24 hours). Nobody had enough time to give me any advice on my last post.

So I was agonizing about which one to choose when I happened to stop in my favorite AR candy store during lunch (yes I ate my lunch on the way there). I found out that after being on backorder for a long time, they had 5 of the DDM4s that finally came in. Well as they say, opportunity knocks, but it doesn't keep knocking and it usually doesn't stay on your doorstep for long (ok I just made that last part up). It felt like a perfect fit in my hands so I said "okay, I'll take it!!". It was a pretty good price considering the quality...honestly, I think Rainier Arms would have been better off if they had just charged me by the hour for all the times I went in and just asked questions or advice, or took up their time and just looked at different ARs.

I will post up when I bring it home and the two rigs are side by side. My plans for this one is keep it light and easy to carry. So the things I will put on it will be as follows...

BAD lever battery assist
Light
optional small red dot optic
and probably my fingerprints all over it
that's it (remember keep it light)

Thanks for all the posts, they really did help (even you guys who warned me I would end up with two guns)

[TehLlama]

Congrats, that is definitely a solid rifle. If it works with the 4-16x optic for your needs, then keep putting money towards ammo and saving the rest. If you do decide down the road to have a longer barreled pure varminting upper, you'll be happy with it, but you've got a fine HD rifle with the flexibility you wanted. Well done.

I didn't notice a weaponlight on there, that's the last detail I'd add for the HD functionality of the rifle - start figuring out lighting placements and work from there.

[BobinLaConner]

Yes the DDM4 V5 will be the varmint/precision rfile and will sport the 4-16 Vortex Viper PST, the bipod and I may put in a better trigger. I really like the gun for all around shooting. I will see how accurate it is with the DD 16" Barrel and if it is not accurate enough to take care of business then I will swap out a Shilen/Rainier Ultramatch Stainless and see how much it improves. Of course I will need to work on my own shooting ability to make sure I am not the "weak link".

I will use the new DDM4 V1 as the CQ lightweight rig. I am planning on putting a light/laser on the top of the rail, in front of the sight post... (maybe a surefire or insight technologies). I already like the selector switch on the new DDM4, it is a little larger and easier to move (so I won't need the BAD A** selector). Then I'll find a nice sling and it will be a usable go-to rig for HD and CQ if needed. I still have the M3 and magnifier to use if needed on either rifle.

I will wait to shoot the new DDM4 and see how I like the grip and the flash hider. I may swap out that stock one with the Battle comp. (I might go the suppressor route on the Varmint setup)

[TehLlama]

Point one: I just picked up a V5 upper myself, this thread probably had a fair bit to do with this. Great upper for what I was planning on turning it into, so thanks.

I suspect the V5 will be plenty adequate for the HD/CQ role if you leave it as-is. So long as you keep the weaponlight weight to a minimum (using a pistol light or 3V Surefire is one way, or a trick light mount and a simple 6PLED) you'll be golden. It just needs a light and a sling and I'd say you have a complete solid setup, and would recommend not messing with it.

If you're building a second upper, it's at this point I'd recommend making a more pure varminting rifle - A Shilen, WOA, Rainier Ultramatch, or similar SS barrel with a heavier contour and more barrel length is amazing to shoot. The Vortex PST will complement that extremely well, and picking a FF handguard system capable of mounting that bipod would be all you need - maybe run an aftermarket trigger once you've gotten very comfortable with the rest of the setup, and you'd be well into the precision rifle game.

[BobinLaConner]

Glad it helped for you, I do love the V5. Mostly it was just me typing my thoughts as I went through my purchasing process. I sure had some great feedback from experienced folks that have already been down the path many times.

But I will probably continue to post up as I add or change things and with any of my experiences with the guns. I'm picking up the DDM4 V1 tomorrow and will probably bite the bullet and add the surefire while I'm there. What the heck, it's better than investing in gold this week right?

[BobinLaConner]

One of the only things left to figure out is the flash hider/compensator/suppressor issue. Right now the V5 has the Battle Comp and the new V1 has the stock flash hider for now.

I am thinking of switching the battle comp to the V1 and then not sure which to add to the V5 (for precision/varmint). Maybe I can use a threaded flash hider so it will be ready for a future suppressor (I just need to decide or "guess" which suppressor I will be buying. Or I could just buy another Battlecomp.

[BobinLaConner]

Here is the latest camera phone pic of the pair of DDM4s...

On top is the V5 set up as a varmint rig, bottom (closest) is the V1 set up for HD or CQ training

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/BobinCovington/v5andv1.jpg?t=1317222375

Probably still planning on a new trigger and a new stainless Rainier Arms barrel for the Varmint rig . Also need another sling and to figure out the flash hider for the V1

[BobinLaConner]

well, continuous quality improvement right...? Today I had the guys at Rainier install a new Geissele Super Dynamic Combat Trigger - SD-C on my varmint/precision rig. It will be interesting with the flat shaped trigger, but I think it will be great. And since I was there, I couldn't pass up getting one of the Magpul MOE + rubberized grips (it just felt really good in my hand). Haven't tried it yet, but I will update after I spend some time with the trigger and the new grip.

[BobinLaConner]

Update - ok I officially love both of these rigs! It's funny how this thread started off with me trying to accomplish all of this with one gun, and I finally ended up with two.

The trigger feels very good and has a perfect feel to it. Not too light of a pull, which is what I prefer. Only problem is now I probably "need" to buy another SD-C for the other rifle.

[TehLlama]

I could have warned you about that problem with Geissele triggers. Owning just one is simply untenable.