The Ar Timney Trigger Saga

[Rusty_ Shackleford]

I have been a big fan of Timney triggers for years and I use them every time I build a precision rifle. So it is with much regret and disgust that I am having to write this. In September of this year I built a Larue Stealth SPR and of course I ordered a Timney trigger for it from my favorite online vendor (PK Firearms). I received the Timney trigger from PKF on 09-24-10 and it looked like this;

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1338.jpg

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1334.jpg

So I call Paul at PKF and he has me send it back and he sends me another that looked even worse! It looked so bad that I didn’t either bother to take it out of the package, here it is;

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1383.jpg

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1380.jpg

So I call Paul back and after speaking with him I come to find that all of the hammers he has are like this and he pointed out that the triggers are different than the other ones I have ordered. Timney changed some things such as doing away with the hard engraving on the gold anodized housing for a cheaper laser engraving and they are now burning an engraving on the hammers with a laser. Now no one has confirmed too me that they have changed their plating process but I think that will be clear to you buy the end of this write up. I would also like to point out that this is in no way PKF's fault and Paul went above and beyond. Thanks Paul!

So I contact Timney and explain my problem and they said send it back and we will make it right. So I send them the 2nd trigger back and they ship me another one and it looked a little better but it didn’t look anything like the hammers on the triggers I have bought previously. So I contact their General Manager and start dealing directly with him. I asked him why the plating looks so bad he said "sometimes they look great and sometimes they don’t.” I explain the problem and the fact that I am out two return shipping fees and he reluctantly sends me a return shipping label and a new trigger group. I say reluctantly because he told me that his problem was that the issue I have is purely cosmetic and the function is not affected. I asked him if the function is not affected then why do you nickel plate them? He responded by asking me what my address was. So I decide to make a comparison photo for their GM to look at and here is a picture of it;

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/TimneyPlatingExamples.jpg

I think the differences between them are quite clear. The most disturbing part of this revelation is they evidently use them no matter what they look like and they don’t seem to care either.

So I wait another week for it to arrive and it is no different, in fact I kept the one I had and sent the new one back since it was the worst of the two. I don’t have a picture of this one because my wife had the camera but you can probably imagine by now. So I contact their GM again and told him they aren’t getting any better and he says he will have hammer made especially for me but I will have to exchange the hammer out of the unit I already have. He then tells me this is the last time he will deal with this! I guess this is somehow my fault at this point.

Now I am waiting to see my 5th hammer which arrived yesterday and this is the last straw! Seven wasted weeks trying to resolve this and look at this sorry excuse for a nickel plated hammer they sent me!

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1749.jpg

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1748.jpg

I sent him an email asking for my money back. I will update this thread when I get a response. Just in case you have not seen what a Timney trigger is supposed to look like here are my two other ones I have;

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1406.jpg

http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj475/Cansler_Tactical/IMG_1392.jpg


I hope by writing this article I can save some of you from having to go through this BS. I have had a couple folks tell me I am being to picky but I don't expect to have to pay the same price for a product that has been downgraded.

Timney used to be the only game in town if you wanted a drop in trigger unit and there quality was second to none. Now that there are multiple manufactures making drop in modules I am guessing Timney lost some market share and some bean counter decided to cut corners to make up some lost revenue but they are dead wrong! Diminishing quality will cost them even more lost revenue and repeat customers like myself.

[TehLlama]

I had been wondering why I had noticed them dipping in price by about $25 on average, this makes lots of sense to me (since they're having to compete against the Jewell, AR Gold, Geisselle, TTU, and similar units).
Have you considered this as an excuse to get the hammer coated in something different (FZ, a DLC, or something similar)?

Either way, their market has become extremely crowded in the last few years, and if focusing less on cosmetics (and perhaps maybe affecting letoff with the coating of the hammer - but I'd argue not since the disconnector isn't) in order to make their price competitive, then I understand their logic if that's the direction they want to go.

[Paulo_Santos]

I can understand the frustration, especially when your older ones don't look like that. You did the right thing and returned it for a new one, unfortunately it looked the same. I would have stopped right there and either asked for my money back and moved on, or just said screw it since it is only cosmetic and won't effect the function of your AR.

[stifled]

I guess I don't see the huge deal, if the people at Timney are telling you it is purely cosmetic and it won't affect the function of the trigger. If they were spending a lot of money on fancy plating before that wasn't improving the function of the trigger, frankly it'd be silly for them to continue to do it. I'm not saying you don't have a right to return it, I'm just saying Timney also has the right to change their product, especially in ways that don't affect its functionality.

[Hmac]

I guess I've never thought to inspect the triggers I install (all Giessele) for cosmetics. I'd be upset if they didn't work well, but not at how they look.

[Rusty_ Shackleford]

Yeah I was pretty disappointed but I guess it is just the nature of things in a competitive market. Timney still makes a good trigger but the attention to detail is what set them apart from the rest. I hope they come to realize that and return to what made them great.......

[Stickman]

If they dropped the price and dropped a bit in the cosmetics department, I see no foul in that. Are you concerned that there is an issue with the quality, or just about how it looks? Do you think there is an overall downward spiral in overall quality that will impact the trigger as it is used?

Before anyone wonders, I've not seen Rusty bitch or complain in any of his posts that I've ever read, so I have genuine interest in what is going on and where he is coming from.

[Duffy]

It appears to be cosmetic, but the looks don't inspire thoughts like quality and QC, I'd be wondering what else could be amiss too.

Personally, I wouldn't care. As a manufacturer, we would either reject it, or sell it as blemished units at a discount (which we have done on products with less than perfect aesthetics but functionally 100%). This is not to knock Timney, what is acceptable to one isn't necessarily so to others.

[TehLlama]

I think the complaint is that most shops don't realize there's been a change, and still sell them for the exact same price. I'm still happy I paid more for the older Timney unit... that 3# skele-mouse click trigger can really minimize my shooter induced error.

[Rusty_ Shackleford]

If they dropped the price and dropped a bit in the cosmetics department, I see no foul in that. Are you concerned that there is an issue with the quality, or just about how it looks? Do you think there is an overall downward spiral in overall quality that will impact the trigger as it is used?

Before anyone wonders, I've not seen Rusty bitch or complain in any of his posts that I've ever read, so I have genuine interest in what is going on and where he is coming from. All of the hammers I have ever seen made by Timney up til now were super slick, highly polished and well plated. Everything about these units are of the highest quality and the attention to detail really sets them apart from the rest and that is why I use them in all my SPR's. So when I saw one of the working parts of the trigger unit left rough machined as it was and the subsequent bad plating job it produced I felt like I had not got what I paid for. I was not given any indication from Timney that any process' had been changed so I was willing to exchange for a different unit. After my second exchange with them the GM told me he would have some more hammers coming from plating in a couple weeks and he would send me one of those and he would make sure it was one like I was accustom too so when it arrived in the same condition as the rest I said enough is enough. I understand that the sides of the hammer being rough doesn't mean the trigger will not function properly but it is a downgrade in quality of the product for the same price I paid before and it makes me concerned that there may be other areas that cost saving may have come before quality and performance standards. I would have much rather seen them make changes in the housing's finish rather than one of the working parts of the unit. I would have no problem paying a little more for the same quality product I grew accustomed too but not the same price for it with the downgrades.......

[Stickman]

Thanks Rusty.