Is BCM having QC issues?

[ghostman1960]

I recently purchased a new BCM 14.5" upper with a pinned A2x FH. I shot it for the first time about two weeks ago and was very dissapointed with it's performance.

I started off at the 50yd range to sight it in and it would barely stay on the paper. No matter what I did I could not get the thing to group. I emailed BCM and they sent me a call tag to send it back in.

About a week later I got a email from them saying that they were swapping out the barrel. They did not say what they found wrong with the barrel or why they decided to change it.

Since then I have read on other sites of about four different people with similar problems with their BCM 14.5" middies. It makes me wonder if they got a bad batch of barrels from a supplier. The thing is though I thought they had a top of the line QC process so that makes me wonder how they let these barrels slip out the door.

I have also been reading that their uppers fit a lot looser onto the lower than most others. I know that some play is normal and even desireable but these have been far looser than the norm.

I wonder if they are suffering from growing pains and their QC is slipping. It does seem to be a pattern I have been seeing.

[Paulo_Santos]

It is hard to blame it on the QC when it is a bad barrel. They don't make the barrels themselves. Every company goes through some problems eventually. It is just inevitable. The good news is that they took care of you by sending you a call tag. As far as the play, you are never guaranteed a 100% fit when you mix and match uppers. My LMT upper/Bushmaster lower are rediculously tight that I need to use a punch or screwdriver to separate the upper from the lower. LMT's are known to run a little tight. As long as the pins aren't falling out when you shoot, I would sweat it.

[ghostman1960]

I'm just curious how they let that barrel out the door if they are checking them. Plus this seems to be mostly affecting 14.5" middy barrels.

[tac40]

Keep us posted.

[TehLlama]

A barrel can pass HPT/MPI and still not be a shooter. I suspect it would have gone on to a happy, long life of shooting mediocre groups.

[Denver45]

Hi Gentleman,

I'm new to the AR platform I and am looking at a BCM upper for my first build. I went to the BCM MFG site and the BravoCompanyUSA site and I don't see any sort of MOA guarantee. So I guess my question is this. What sort of groupings are acceptable from a BCM upper and what is unacceptable warranting a return to BCM for a fix?

[Muddyboots]

My question is what ammo is it being fed? I have a barrel that loves anything over 60 gr. and is nice and tight. When I try 55 gr. it opens way up. It IS a 1:7 twist.

HTH!


Muddyboots

[ghostman1960]

A barrel can pass HPT/MPI and still not be a shooter. I suspect it would have gone on to a happy, long life of shooting mediocre groups.

It was shooting 3 foot groups.

[ghostman1960]

My question is what ammo is it being fed? I have a barrel that loves anything over 60 gr. and is nice and tight. When I try 55 gr. it opens way up. It IS a 1:7 twist.

HTH!


Muddyboots

I was shooting privi 62 gr and Federal 55 gr.

[ghostman1960]

Hi Gentleman,

I'm new to the AR platform I and am looking at a BCM upper for my first build. I went to the BCM MFG site and the BravoCompanyUSA site and I don't see any sort of MOA guarantee. So I guess my question is this. What sort of groupings are acceptable from a BCM upper and what is unacceptable warranting a return to BCM for a fix?

BCM has an excellent reputation and rightly so. I think you would be happy with any of their products. I just got the rare lemon thats all.

[Denver45]

BCM has an excellent reputation and rightly so. I think you would be happy with any of their products. I just got the rare lemon thats all.

I hear you. I just thought there might be some kind of guarantee. If I ran many types of ammo and bullet grains through a barrel and couldn't get under 3 or 4 MOA at 100 yards from a rest I'd feel like I didn't get my moneys worth. I just wasn't sure if there was an accepted level of accuracy expected and couldn't find any such documentation on their website. I still plan on buying a 14.5" upper from them in the next couple of months. I'm curious to see how this particular one works out.

Thanks!

[Stickman]

Here are the words taken directly from Paul (Owner of BCM).



We put the barrel under our bore scope and did not like the way it looked. So we just immediately swapped out the barrel.

We ship thousands + barrels/guns per month. We have seen 3 or 4 returns in the last 6 weeks. Very small percentage, but still something that we are not happy with. Prior to this bore scope inspection was done on batch samples. It is now being done on 100% on all barrels.

Long and short, we will always take care of it.

Thanks,
Paul


This is a nonevent, and has already been taken care of. Paul has also taken an additional step to ensure it doesn't happen again. Its done and over.

[Denver45]

Good to hear. I look forward to sending them some business soon.

[Optimus Prime]

Good to hear. I've been eying up the 14.5 lightweight middy with a pinned BattleComp and keeping a good chunk of money in-state always makes me happy.

[TehLlama]

Quality is about reducing the number of non-ideal equipment you produce as much as it is about handling those (rare) problem ones that do get out. None of us are surprised Paul stood behind that.

[Cameron]

Don't worry a bad barrel is inconvenient but nothing to worry about especially with a company like BCM, they will make it right quickly.

I have a 14.5" standard BCM that will put out 1.25 MOA with Fed 55gr a 4MOA aimpoint at 100yds. My BCM 18" SS410 is a true sub MOA tack driver.

Cameron

[rob_s]

I have a 14.5" BCM mid now, and had another for an article. From a bench with a 9x optic and a bipod both were capable of 1/2" groups at 50 yards with 77 grain Black Hills.

All companies have issues and growing pains. What matters most is how they deal with them and how they serve the customer when those issues arise. BCM is second to none in this regard.

[Stocks]

I recently purchased a new BCM 14.5" upper with a pinned A2x FH. I shot it for the first time about two weeks ago and was very dissapointed with it's performance.

I started off at the 50yd range to sight it in and it would barely stay on the paper. No matter what I did I could not get the thing to group. I emailed BCM and they sent me a call tag to send it back in.

About a week later I got a email from them saying that they were swapping out the barrel. They did not say what they found wrong with the barrel or why they decided to change it.

Since then I have read on other sites of about four different people with similar problems with their BCM 14.5" middies. It makes me wonder if they got a bad batch of barrels from a supplier. The thing is though I thought they had a top of the line QC process so that makes me wonder how they let these barrels slip out the door.

I have also been reading that their uppers fit a lot looser onto the lower than most others. I know that some play is normal and even desireable but these have been far looser than the norm.

I wonder if they are suffering from growing pains and their QC is slipping. It does seem to be a pattern I have been seeing.

What type of ammo are you using with that 14.5" barrel? You know that some ammo will tumble right out of the barrel!!

[ghostman1960]

Federal 55grn and Privi 62grn. Just to add, BCM took care of the problem and I had the upper back in my hands with a new barrel and some extra goodies thrown in within 8 days after I sent it in to them. That is unparalleled CS.

[wolf_walker]

How's it shoot now?

[BobinLaConner]

I wanted to add a footnote about QA, QC and Quality. Some folks seem to think an escape of bad or faulty product/material is an isolated incident or a sign of a bad company. I would say that IF that company did nothing about it and it was a chronic problem THEN yes it would be a shady operation. BUT in a company that has a quality system, attributes and problems are tracked and watched. Key indicator attributes are identified and tracked to see trends. Parts are inspected for dimensional attributes, for defects, and for other features they deem critical. Some potential problems are anticipated and solved before they ever go into production. When an unexpected problem occurs, it jumps to their radar screen and is studied with a root cause analysis and then a corrective action is taken. Then an indicator for that problem is built in to the quality system to prevent a future occurrence. My guess is that any company selling firearms to military or government customers is also audited on a regular basis for their quality program compliance.

A good example is Jack in the box...they were one of the first to have an E.Coli problem with undercooked meat. They found the problem and immediately implemented a quality program which included hand washing and cooking all meat to a minimum temperature. It is now ingrained in their procedures and taught to each new employee. I have not heard of a single E. Coli problem at a Jack in the Box since.

So BCM sounds like they are doing everything right...they were friendly and supportive and took the part back and instantly replaced it (great customer service). They undoubtedly took that faulty part and examined it for what happened and determined a root cause of the problem. Then they came up with a corrective action to prevent that from happening again (Example of a Good Program). I can guess you will not see this problem very often (if ever) once they implement the corrective action. Some companies call this "Continuous Quality Improvement" but it goes by many equivalent names these days. Hopefully any problem or failure does not cause injury or significant damage, but in a weird way, every problem or defect, if treated correctly, becomes a chance to improve the product or the process. So the best we can do as consumers is give the best feedback we can in the form of accurate data and open communication.

I can appreciate a company like BCM that stands behind their product and takes care of the customer as the front end of their own QA improvement process. Forums like this are also valuable to companies as they can see more discussion of problems or potential improvements from "real world" customers.

Just looking at the big picture... :)

[Paulo_Santos]

Great post.

[Quib]

Great post.

Speaking as someone currently working in a QA role......I have to agree. Good post!

[Muddyboots]

I buy and use a lot of mountaineering, climbing, rigging and safety equipment in my two jobs. I have two professional licenses depending on MY results with that equipment. I also have my butt and those of others depending on that gear. When I choose to buy gear from a company, I consider myself to be entering into a limited partnership with that company. When I break gear (I do...) I contact the company and start a dialog. I've had a couple companies over the years respond with "Who T.F. are you? We don't care what you say!" I don't buy from them anymore and recommend against them, with explanation. Sterling Ropes, Metolius and BlackDiamond have all been very interested in what I had to say. I've extended this philosophy to most gear I buy. In the shooting world, Magpul, Vtac and Mayflower have wanted the input I had to offer. When I look at new gear, I look to see how they treat people who bring them a problem. I started buying BCM because of what they do .

Muddyboots

[Eric]

It is satisfying to be able to have a civil dialogue directly with a manufacturer or vendor about an issue with a product. Folks like BCM are always interested in getting feedback and fine tuning their product. When I had an issue with a Colt 6920, I was clearly just another number.