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Cannon Fodder
5 March 2011, 04:50
WEVO crew,

I've been crawling around the web as per my usual routine, looking for recommendations on a reasonable CCW. I have done what I hope is a fair browsing of these forums, specifically, but I haven't found too much info on the Glock G27 .40. As opinions tend to change, I hope you'll consider providing me with your current recommendations.

Would anyone care to comment if they've used that, or the G26 variant?

I am specifically leaning towards handguns chambered in .40, since I already own an XD(m) .40 4.5" Bi-tone, and have the ammunition stocked up. The XD(m) is a little unwieldy though, so I don't feel it makes an attractive CCW. I also like the subdued finish of many of the Glock models, and I would like Night Sights. To top it off, I have located a Blue Label dealer in my area.

I will most likely be carrying the weapon IWB / small of the back @3:00.

Other weapons I've considered (not necessarily per the Semi-Automatic requirement):

- Sig P226 .40 Good, but still a larger handgun.
- S&W Model 340PD .357 - Already getting one of these for the wife.
- Ruger LCP .380 - Small, grab and go, but packs less of a punch. No night sights.
- Sig P238 .380 - I've read that people tend to carry these similar to the 1911 (hammer cocked).

Thank you,

Cannon

Quib
5 March 2011, 06:53
Other weapons I've considered (not necessarily per the Semi-Automatic requirement):

- Ruger LCP .380 - Small, grab and go, but packs less of a punch. No night sights.


I have a couple friends who carry the LCP, and are very pleased with it.

I was surprised with Ruger's announcement of the LC9, which looks really appealing to those wanting more than the .380 has to offer. This is most likely the direction I'll go when the time comes and the LC9 will get my attention first.

http://www.ruger.com/products/lc9/models.html

Cannon Fodder
5 March 2011, 08:03
Hmm, hmm, hmm...

That LC9 has all of the features I was looking at the P238 over the LCP for. Add 9mm to the mix, and I may need to see if I can lay hands on one of those. Gunblast has a nice review of it. Night sights would seal the deal on this one (my preference only). Thanks for the info on this one, Quib.

Rodman24
5 March 2011, 08:54
I too am seriously looking considering a G27. I carry a G23 most of the time. For a smaller profile, I've been very happy with my Ruger LCR. But I would prefer to have a common caliber.

I once owned a Kahr PM40, which was a fine shooting gun. That being said, there was a reliability issue. After 2 broken followers, I ditched it.

My concern with the 27 is the grip length. (since that made the PM40 a bit of a handful). I'm hoping to find someone who will let me shoot their G27. I'll be interested in seeing other responses to this thread

Wondering Beard
5 March 2011, 12:47
I have carried as my back up gun (BUG for short) a G26/27 for about ten years, they have been perfectly reliable for thousands of rounds; well, one round of 40 S&W 165gr PMC FMJ caused a malfunction early on, but that's it.

I find the gun to be an excellent concealed carry gun but best used with a holster on the belt, not in a pocket (it is thick).

Recoil being such a subjective thing, I can't really speak to it other than say that the G26 recoils obviously less than the G27 and that the 40 S&W ammo, at least in my hands, has a tendency to torque the gun left and up. Not enough to be a problem, but noticeable nonetheless.

I really dislike shooting either gun without magazines that have some variant of a "pinky hook" on them; Glock OEM mag extensions having been the most reliable but the Pierce floorplates are more discreet IMO.

For carry, you should be aware that, depending on the holster and your body type, the shorter the slide, the easiest it is for the gun to angle itself outwards away from your waist when carrying IWB. The belt is putting pressure inwards closer to the muzzle of the gun thus pushing the grip outwards. This tendency is, as I said, highly dependent on your body type and holster; in the latter case, the higher the IWB holster rides the more that tendency is enhanced. It will not happen to everyone but check before you buy. I carried my G27 in an OWB Hume JIT belt slide worn crossdraw (it was my BUG not my main gun) and it concealed quite well.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'small of the back' @ 3:00. "small of the back" is at 6 o'clock and something you should avoid like the plague while 3:00 or even 4:30, depending on your body type, is totally fine.

Your other choices are all good (caveat on the Ruger and the SIG P238 as I'v'e never shot them but I read good things about them) but it is important that you try them out at the range first; either a friend's gun or a rental.

Depending on the size of your hands, the Rugers and P238 may be too small. They are both thin and short which may mean that there can be too much hand and not enough grip and thus make it difficult to properly place your finger on the trigger. Also, The thinner the grip, the more the recoil wil concentrate in a narrow area of the web of your hand making the gun more difficult to control. Of course, go too far the other way and your recreate the same problems. For example, I am fine with a steel frame Kahr but not with a polymer framed one; my main gun is either a G19 or a G23.

The choices you are making are very personal, so don't rely too much on what you read but try the guns out yourself.

Cannon Fodder
5 March 2011, 15:53
I'm not sure what you mean by 'small of the back' @ 3:00. "small of the back" is at 6 o'clock and something you should avoid like the plague while 3:00 or even 4:30, depending on your body type, is totally fine.

Thanks for your comments, Wondering Beard! I simply meant that location would be where the holster is concealed, yet oriented (canted?) to provide an angled draw (10 degree?), as it is most comfortable to me. But I actually see that I used the wrong teminology lol, my mistake [noob]. I suppose I can see why you would recommend against the 6:00. I have a medium build, and checking my belt as I'm sitting shows there is some negative space that could cause the angling you describe.

I'm well trained with an M16/M4 but definitely still learning in the handgun department, and personal ownership. There's a big difference in what is instructed in the military vs. LEO vs. civilian world. Would you believe that with the amount of training I've received, a large part of my knowledge has come from personal research?

Most grips seem to fit me, as I'm about as "Medium" as one can get. I've had some experience with Glock G17/G19/G21 models, and they were all manageable. I appreciate the information you've provided.

- Cannon

Dredd371
5 March 2011, 16:37
I've carried the G27 both as a backup on duty and for concealed carry off duty. I like it because I also carried the G22 & G23 as my duty weapon and used the same ammo and could even use the bigger mags in my 27. I'm 6'2"/ 280 so the recoil didn't bother me at all. I will say that I wish the 27 had a slimmer profile (easier to conceal). Having grown up in Florida and working as a LEO there, I was always searching for a way to conceal it during the hot Summer months.

Wondering Beard
6 March 2011, 11:58
Thanks for your comments, Wondering Beard! I simply meant that location would be where the holster is concealed, yet oriented (canted?) to provide an angled draw (10 degree?), as it is most comfortable to me. But I actually see that I used the wrong teminology lol, my mistake [noob]. I suppose I can see why you would recommend against the 6:00. I have a medium build, and checking my belt as I'm sitting shows there is some negative space that could cause the angling you describe.

I'm well trained with an M16/M4 but definitely still learning in the handgun department, and personal ownership. There's a big difference in what is instructed in the military vs. LEO vs. civilian world. Would you believe that with the amount of training I've received, a large part of my knowledge has come from personal research?

Most grips seem to fit me, as I'm about as "Medium" as one can get. I've had some experience with Glock G17/G19/G21 models, and they were all manageable. I appreciate the information you've provided.

- Cannon

I am well trained on the pistol but very much a noob when it comes to the AR, so I make the same mistakes in reverse [BD].

I can believe that personal research has been your main tool. There is just no subsittute for doing the work oneself [:)]

One other thing to pay attention to in the subcompact Glocks is where the arch of the backstrap fits in your hand. In my hands, that arch is in the middle of palm which I don't really like (but cope with anyway) whereas it is lower on all other Glock models. As a result, the feel of a subcompact Glock is different and it may or may not work for you.

I don't know if subcompact gen 4s exist yet but the interchangeable backstrap should help there.

If the G27 fits you, you will have found a very good CCW gun.

Cannon Fodder
7 March 2011, 11:15
Thanks for your responses, gentlemen!

So, I'm looking around and I found that Glockmeister is not only offering a Blue Label discount, but also the Gen 4 G27 .40 (http://www.glockmeister.com/GLOCK-27-Gen-4/productinfo/G27GEN4/). I believe I will give this one some serious consideration.

Now, they offer a number of customization options:

- Choice of sighting systems prior to shipment.
- Stainless Steel Recoil Assembly with stock Weight Spring
- Glock/Pearce/Scherer +0 through +2 mag extensions
- Extended Slide Lock
- Extended Slide Stop Lever
- Various Trigger jobs (3.5# to 4.5# options)
- CrimsonTrace
- KKM Standard Barrel

I realize that these are some overzealous options here, and at first sight I knocked most of them off the list. A Glock is a Glock, and typically that's a synonym for "Good As-Is". But, I think choosing the Pearce extension seems practical, and maybe even the extended Slide Lock (+3mm overall length) and Slide Stop Lever. I will definitely get the Night Sights (so many choices!), and POSSIBLY a trigger modification.

I've noted that the slim profile on the Slide Lock and Slide Stop Lever can increase the difficulty when trying to disassemble the weapon or lock the slide. However, the caveat is that if it sticks out, it can hinder operation as well.

What do you guys think about these options, and specifically the Lock/Stop options?

- Cannon

Dos Cylindros
7 March 2011, 11:36
I have carried .40 S&W Glocks on and off duty now for almost 13 years. I am a rangemaster and Glock armorer with my agency, and my advice would be to forget about trigger jobs, "ghost" connectors and extended slide locks. The factory Glock extended slide stop would be okay, but not at all required. Leave Glocks alone, they flat work and do so for a reason. The only mod required would be night sights if your gun did not come with them from the factory, no other modifications are needed, required or advised based on my experience with the platform. Buy spare mags, and change the recoil and mag springs every couple of years. The stock barrel is more than good enough, and there is no reason to go messing with a "serious use" Glock as they are durable and reliable from the start. I have a new Gen4 G27 and a Gen 3 G27, and love them. My primary duty gun is a Gen 3 G22 and I also have a Gen 3 G23. All have proven durable, reliable, accurate and simple to operate and maintain. The smaller guns take the larger guns magazines, and for the most part holsters are interchangeable. I am a fan of many gun platforms, but for serious use I will stay with the Glock and keep them VERY lightly modified. If you had to have a "trigger job," you should only use Glock factory parts, like the Glock 3.5 # connector and the NY-1 trigger spring. When your parts need replacing, lone wolf distributors and glockmiester are your go to spots.

Cannon Fodder
7 March 2011, 11:54
Dos Cylindros,

I pretty much figured that would be the recommendation. I never mind asking questions from those with more experience, and your assessment looks spot-on (always listen to the rangemaster, or you'll get a slap on the helmet and a boot to the ass, right?). For the trigger job, I wouldn't have purchased it over the stock unless I had used the hell out of the pistol and found it lacking. One thing I've learned from my attempts at spending money: If I have to talk myself into it, I don't need it.

Gotta have those night sights, though.

Thanks!

-Cannon

Wondering Beard
7 March 2011, 12:03
My comments in red


Thanks for your responses, gentlemen!

So, I'm looking around and I found that Glockmeister is not only offering a Blue Label discount, but also the Gen 4 G27 .40 (http://www.glockmeister.com/GLOCK-27-Gen-4/productinfo/G27GEN4/). I believe I will give this one some serious consideration.

Now, they offer a number of customization options:

- Choice of sighting systems prior to shipment. plenty of good sights around, preferably pick something with a wide rear sight opening. I'm not a fan of three dot sights especially if one's vision is not what it once was as the two dots in the rear can crowd out the one on the front sight
- Stainless Steel Recoil Assembly with stock Weight Spring Adds nothing
- Glock/Pearce/Scherer +0 through +2 mag extensions stick with the +0, I haven't found the +1 and +2 to be reliable. The only enhanced capacity floor plates that work IMO are those from Glock
- Extended Slide Lock It can interfere with reholstering and may not be as strong as the original. Stay stock
- Extended Slide Stop LeverStay away. Most aren't engineered right and it gets in the way. It's just a bad idea on Glocks as it was on 1911s
- Various Trigger jobs (3.5# to 4.5# options) If you want reliability, don't get trigger jobs. Sure some smiths know what they're doing but they are few and far between. I don't know the folks at Glockmeister so I can't comment on their work. In any case, the Glock stock trigger is light enough, has a good reset and is easy to learn. If later on you want to make some changes there are kits that you can put in yourself with very little work but get used to the stock trigger first.
- CrimsonTrace Some people like it, some don't. I don't, not because I'm against lasers but because the unit interferes with my hand and makes the grip bigger. Try it out on someone else's gun before buying
- KKM Standard Barrel They're fine barrels but they may or may not need fitting, they don't really increase accuracy; in fact, the only thing they're good for is to allow you to use lead bullets in reloads. They're not worth the expense unless, later on you want to use a different caliber.

I realize that these are some overzealous options here, and at first sight I knocked most of them off the list. A Glock is a Glock, and typically that's a synonym for "Good As-Is". But, I think choosing the Pearce extension seems practical, and maybe even the extended Slide Lock (+3mm overall length) and Slide Stop Lever. I will definitely get the Night Sights (so many choices!), and POSSIBLY a trigger modification.

I've noted that the slim profile on the Slide Lock and Slide Stop Lever can increase the difficulty when trying to disassemble the weapon or lock the slide. However, the caveat is that if it sticks out, it can hinder operation as well.

What do you guys think about these options, and specifically the Lock/Stop options?

- Cannon

Keep the gun stock (except for the sights as they need to be changed) at the beginning and only start thinking about changing things after you have had plenty of trigger time behind it; a good defense class will tell you more about your gun and how you can use it best than simple practice at the range. Odds are, like most people, you won't change a thing. All my Glocks (some nine or so of them) are stock except for the sights.

The only modification other than sights you might want to consider is the Vickers magazine catch. It is slightly higher than the stock part but not enough to interfere with either hand or holster. I don't use it because I can actuate the mag catch just fine as is but it may just serve you well, depending on your hands

Cannon Fodder
7 March 2011, 12:38
Wondering Beard,

Thank you for taking the time to critique the options they offer. When it comes down to it, I'm buying this weapon because I expect it to fire every time. I'll put it through the 2000 round challenge not to say I've done it, but because I'm from Missouri (you know, the "Show Me" state). Because the one time I need it, I need a Bang and not a Click.

I think I've had pretty much everything I can have answered from the information in this thread. I appreciate you all taking the time to correct me when needed, and provide insight. If anyone has additional comments, please post them. I'll always read them and respond in kind.

- Cannon

Wondering Beard
7 March 2011, 15:31
Just remembered, the Vickers mag catch is not yet available for the Gen 4 guns.

At the end of those 2K rounds you probably will want to change the recoil springs and check the trigger spring for weakening. The 40 cal is kinda hard on them.

Sounds like you're going to get yourself a great gun, congrats!

MoxyDave
12 March 2011, 11:07
I like the G26 for carry and all the comments here are spot-on. Glock recommends that you use the "slingshot" method to release the slide, and the standard lever works just fine in a pinch. The slide will wear on the slide stop over time if you use it to release the slide and eventually it may fail to hold the slide open after the last round. At least that is what I've read; never seen it happen.

There have been endless internet debates about whether or not to customize your carry gun. Personally I'll take any reasonable steps to keep myself out of a courtroom so I keep my carry guns stock except for the sights. A 3.5" connector is not approved by Glock except for competition or when used with an NY1 spring. I like night sights with 2 tritium dots, like the Heinie Straight 8's (http://www.heinie.com/product_info.php?products_id=142) or Ameriglo I-Dot (http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/night-sights/complete-sets/i-dot). I learned a lot from watching stuff like Magpul's "The Art of the Dynamic Handgun (http://store.magpul.com/product/DYN004/76)" and "Complete Glock Disassembly / Reassembly (http://www.glockmeister.com/Complete-GLOCK-Disassembly_Reassmbly-DVD/productinfo/P0100D/)".

Glock barrels are excellent. Their polygonal rifling is unique. Aftermarket barrels are typically broached or button rifled and they have tighter chambers. Glock barrels will give you a little more velocity and reliability with a wider variety of ammo. Just don't shoot lead - it tends to build up in Glock barrels more than others and can lead to dangerous over-pressure situations.

I chose 9mm mainly because of availability & price. Modern cartridges all perform similarly nowadays; the caliber debate is rather moot once you get into 9mm and beyond. You can use +p rounds to give you a little more velocity if you want. I like to keep things simple with a single caliber and just a couple handguns. Less to think about if something goes wrong.

The Gen4 glocks have a couple features that I really like. The mag release is a bit larger, making it easier to manipulate. The grip is a little smaller and fits my hands better than the previous gen. The grip texture is also more positive than the Gen3. The subcompacts already used a dual-spring recoil assy. so the slides are compatible with Gen3, whereas the larger guns are not the same.

Hope this helps. I've tried to educate myself as best I could and I like to pass on what I've learned [:D]

Cannon Fodder
27 March 2011, 11:35
Whoops! I missed your post, MoxyDave.

Thanks for your tip on the slingshot method! I'm still looking at the Gen 4 G27 (mainly to keep common caliber).

Still, the Glock platform gives a nagging feeling in the back of my mind in terms of manual safety. Because of this I'm also looking at the S&W M&P 40c w/ thumb safety. In about two weeks I'll have the opportunity to put some hands on time with both platforms and really decide which I want to use.

Paulo_Santos
27 March 2011, 11:45
If you plan on shooting handloads, get an aftermarket barrel that will support that. Ask me how I know. LOL. Glocks are great guns. I wouldn't mess with them too much, other than night sights. Personally, I have a hard time with the standard slide release on the Glocks so I like to get one of the longer ones, but that's just me.

lingeringlight
28 March 2011, 12:43
Another option to look at is the Ruger SR9c. It is a bit bigger than the LC9 but fits the hand nicely. It also has an ambidextrous thumb safety (which some opt to ignore, but is there if you want.) It comes standard with a 10 round mag with a pinkie hook base plate thingy and then a full sized 17 round mag with a sleeve on it. You can find a nice review of it and the LC9 on gunblast.com

edit: I know your op stated a desire for .40 but you mentioned some .380 guns in the thread.

another thought is consider how long you have had your CCW. You may find that for how you dress, a full sized gun paired with a IWB holster is perfectly suitable. IMHO, going smaller means sacrificing something for concealability and comfort. If you can carry bigger and be happy...don't discount that as an option until you give it a try. I have a HK P30 long slide that I have carried for a year and a half. for the first few months I thought it was very conspicuous and I was very aware of it. Eventually, I didn't notice it and nobody else ever has either. Just thoughts.

Cannon Fodder
28 March 2011, 12:55
lingeringlight,

Thanks for the recommendation! I sure did post a bunch of options, but that's mainly because I'm not one to commit to such an important purchase until I've had the facts in front of me.

When I get some down time, I've found a range back home that offers a large number of rentals for a low fee-per-visit. I'm hoping they have the SR9c there for me to try out.

On the other hand, I saw a video today of a super thin woman successfully concealing an S&W M&P 9c without much trouble. Some slight printing was showing on a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB when covered by a loose shirt, but nothing to speak of. That gives me a fair amount of confidence that I should be alright. The largest concern I have is with the depth of the handle.

Quiet-Matt
28 March 2011, 16:16
I had a 27 for 11 years, but didn't care for the short grip too much. I now cary a 23 and it's just as concealable for me IWB in the small of my back. I'm personally much happier with the 23.